Cracker. Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I need advice... I have a cache ready to go that I want to place. Its themed around a historic landmark that no longer exists. The ONLY place I have found information is on someones webpage. I was thinking of copying some of the info/pics from the webpage to make a small pamphlet to go in the cache and explain the significance of the extinct landmark. I have tried to reach the webpage owner a couple of times with no response.... My question is: Is it OK/Unethical to go ahead and use the info, as long as I give credit to the website and the website owner in the pamphlet? TIA Art www.yankeetoys.org www.BudBuilt.com www.pirate4x4.com Quote Link to comment
+Desert_Warrior Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hmmmm.... I could be wrong here, I have been wrong before. My opinion, as long as proper credit is given to the source, reading it on a printed page is no different than reading it on the web, or using it as a reference in a book report. Wait a while and see if anyone else weighs in on this. Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC). El Paso, Texas. Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom. They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS! Quote Link to comment
Swagger Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Why not put the info into your own words and take your own pics? The way I understand copyright law, you can't use their stuff without their permission. If you make significant changes to their work, the product is considered your work, which you can (of course) use. Of course, the copyright laws are only as strong as they are enforcable. I'm not advocating breaking any laws, however, the odds that they would ever find out AND care enough to file charges are probably pretty slim. </IANAL> -- Random fortune: Quote Link to comment
Cracker. Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 Well, thats the problem....Current pics are impossible....The landmark was so old, that there are no known pics whatsoever....There are only a couple of known pencil drawings and sketches. These are what are on the website, so i would have to use them or nothing at all. When doing a report, you usually find content from several sources, and combine & eliminate elements of info, and reword it so it becomes a conglomerate of available info. The problem is, this website is the ONLY source of info I have access to, so theres not much I can do to change it to make it mine. Also, if I WAS to reword this, I would feel even MORE like I was stealing it.... The owner of the website is local, and affiliated with the State park where the cache is located, so it is VERY possible the cache will become known to him... I'm leaning toward, if I leave it as is, and give credit where credit is due (I'm even including the website address), I should be OK.... But I do appreciate ALL views on this...Keep them coming... Art www.yankeetoys.org www.BudBuilt.com www.pirate4x4.com Quote Link to comment
+Desert_Warrior Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Cracker7M:The owner of the website is local, and affiliated with the State park where the cache is located, so it is VERY possible the cache will become known to him... Well, this changes the whole thing. CONTACT HIM! Go in person to the park office, and request to speak to that person. If they are unwilling to help you make contact because of security, leave a note with your address and phone number, and request a contact. This shouldn't be a hard thing to do. If you believe he will learn of the cache anyway, you should be able to get word to him. Give it a try anyway, it is the right thing to do. Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC). El Paso, Texas. Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom. They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS! Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Odds are once you ask you will get permission to use the content and at worst you will be asked to link to their page. This is only fair. ===================== Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+SylvrStorm Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Ah - copyright law. Something I am somewhat familiar with, though if there were money involved I'd certainly advise consulting a copyright lawyer, which I am NOT. As it is, this is probably too minor to be worth that time/money/effort. Copyright law isn't as clear cut as some people would like to believe. There are several aspects to it, all of which weigh into what is allowed and what is not. One big factor is the concept of Fair Use. If you wanted to make any sort of profit from this, your use would be much less likely to be considered Fair Use. As it stands (non-profit, low volume - maybe a few dozen copies, you might even be able to argue it's for educational purposes) you might get away with claiming Fair Use. But that's just one factor. Percentage Use is another factor. There are two sides to this - the percentage of your material that is copied from that website, and the percentage of that website that you want to copy, the latter being most important. It sounds like both of these are working against you. If you only wanted to take a few short quotes, with citation, from their site (less than 10%), then this would likely qualify as fair use. Another factor is that something must be an original creative work to be protected by copyright. In other words, you can't copyright hard facts. A common example is a phone book. A list of addresses and phone numbers is not an original creative work, and therefore cannot be protected by copyright. If the information you're talking about consists of (or includes), for example, a list of dates and historic events, that can't be copyrighted. But if there is a sentence or two of description of those events, then that is copyrighted. See the difference? A common misunderstanding is that people believe you can copy anything as long as you cite the source, even if you don't have permission. This is not true. You can excerpt a quote, but you can't copy substantial chunks of a work. Another common belief is that it's okay to copy something if there's no statement of copyright on the source website. This is also false. It doesn't matter if there is a copyright notice, or if it's registered - any creative work is automatically protected by law as soon as it is stored in a tangible medium. This includes written on paper, stored on a hard drive, stored on tape, etc. As soon as it's out of the originator's head and into/onto something you can point at, it's protected. Your best bet is to do everything you can to contact the originator. In most cases, for something like what you want to do, the person will grant permission and it makes everyone feel good. If you can't, then I suggest you don't copy text verbatim or use any of the pictures. You can take the information, put it into your own words, and use it as you like. As long as you cite the website as a source, this is much less stealing than if you simply copy it verbatim. If you decide to go ahead and use word-for-word text or pictures, then absolutely include a reference to your source, and a statement that they were unreachable (and what you did to try), and a statement that you agree to remove the printed material upon their request if they should disagree with its use. Hope this helps, SylvrStorm *** Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and they laugh at you. *** Quote Link to comment
+Kfam Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I used a link to a picture on my Nisqually Reach cache description page. Also added a link to their homepage. This was done with verbal permission from a volunteer at the center. An e-mail to the webmaster was unanswered. I think it turned out nice and have had no complaints about using their picture. Quote Link to comment
RedShoesGirl Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 quote: The way I understand copyright law, you can't use their stuff without their permission. If you make significant changes to their work, the product is considered your work, which you can (of course) use. One cannot make significant or non-significant changes to another's work, as that right, it is called derivative, belongs to the copyright holder. In short,one simply can't use the work of others without permission...that includes web pages etc. Educational uses are a different ball game. T'is always better to ask or create your own. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Why don't you just have a link to their website on the page? I do this for several of my caches. If you need to know the html code to do this, here is an example: For more info, visit <a href=http://www.longpondironworks.org>The Friends of Long Pond Ironworks</a> website. "Au pays des aveugles, les borgnes sont rois" Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 You shouldn't havea problem printing it out. I wouldn't make changes to it though. If you were profiting from it, then you might would have a problem. I assume you did not have to pay to read what the website offered. IF you found it in the newspaper, would you of put a clipping from the paper in it? Probably so. But the paper makes money from copies it sells. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com Quote Link to comment
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