How to deal with GPS equipped raiders

[Guest Boromir]

We hide our caches to try to avoid people stumbling across them by accident (and possibly raiding them). Unfortunately if a raider has a GPS it seems pretty difficult to deter them without seriously impacting geocaching for the rest of us. In this thread I am specifically targeting the cases where the raider is not legally enforcing some law that does not allow that particular cache.

 

What I have come up with so far:

 

1. Provide only approximate locations on the cache web page (close enough to decide if you are interested), and put something in place that allows the webmaster to track who viewed the caches exact location. With this we could possibly find a link between exact location views and cache raids. For this to work we would need to be able to track real identities. Of course, unless raiding the cache is actually illegal, we wouldn't really be able to do anything about it even if we did know who was doing it.

 

This could be possibly be done by:

- Having people pay a token fee (by credit card) to get an account allowing access to exact locations. There could also be a few caches maintained that did not require an account to allow people to try geocaching before they pay.

- Showing the location only to the nearest minute on the website, and the exact location provided by email only. The down side to this is that it is very easy to create a lot of accounts. Of course the IP the request comes from could also be logged.

 

These measures could make the raiders feel a little less confident that they would get away with it.

 

2. Set up somewhere where the cache can be monitored (security camera, webcam, ???). Of course this will not be practical in almost all cases.

 

I am not sure any of these would really work. Anyone have any other ideas?

[Guest Moun10Bike]

ture of the sport.

 

quote:

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Having people pay a token fee (by credit card) to get an account allowing access to exact locations.

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NO, please no! This step could single-handedly kill the sport (more so than any raiders). This would eliminate any casual cachers, and prevent many others from ever becoming "serious" cachers. Also, many younger people don't even have credit cards.

 

quote:

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Showing the location only to the nearest minute on the website, and the exact location provided by email only.

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Again, this is too much overhead and bureaucracy, and runs counter to the open nature of geocaching.

 

I think that we need to be careful about overreacting to a handful of plunderings. Agreed, if raiding becomes epidemic, then we will need think up some creative solutions, and maybe even resort to some drastic measures. However, the steps above seem premature at this time. That said, I feel for you guys up in Edmonton for the recent raidings to which you have been subjected. My own solution for that for now will be to plant some extra caches next time that I'm up in your area (I have family in Calgary)!

 

[This message has been edited by Moun10Bike (edited 04-08-2001).]

[Guest Boromir]

quote:

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Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

I think that we need to be careful about overreacting to a handful of plunderings. Agreed, if raiding becomes epidemic, then we will need think up some creative solutions, and maybe even resort to some drastic measures. However, the steps above seem premature at this time.

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I agree that these are probably too extreme, but after having thought about for a couple days that's all I had come up with for things that might actually work. I have given this a lot of thought since Edmonton suddenly went from having 5 caches (within city limits) to 2 (1 of which is unofficially gone as well).

 

quote:

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My own solution for that for now will be to plant some extra caches next time that I'm up in your area (I have family in Calgary)!

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I agree with this, keep planting them. Perhaps we should keep the cache price low and place 2 for each one that disappears (I can make a few caches for <$20 if I keep the prizes small). If our raider keeps coming we will be able to pick hir out as the exhausted person with the gps.

 

If the problem persists we may have to look at virtual caches. I really enjoy the hunt, but the logbook and prizes are a part of the fun as well.

 

I wish I knew the motive for the raiding of caches. In the USA the NPS is enforcing it's rules, and knowing this we can approach them for a solution. It is tough when we don't know why raids occur. If it is someone raiding them because they don't think we should be leaving these things out, that is an image problem we can try to deal with. If it is someone just raiding them for kicks I guess we just hope they get bored, grow up, or see how selfish they are and quit.

 

For now I guess we plant some more and see what happens.

[Guest Boromir]

quote:

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Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

I think that we need to be careful about overreacting to a handful of plunderings. Agreed, if raiding becomes epidemic, then we will need think up some creative solutions, and maybe even resort to some drastic measures. However, the steps above seem premature at this time.

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I agree that these are probably too extreme, but after having thought about for a couple days that's all I had come up with for things that might actually work. I have given this a lot of thought since Edmonton suddenly went from having 5 caches (within city limits) to 2 (1 of which is unofficially gone as well).

 

quote:

---

My own solution for that for now will be to plant some extra caches next time that I'm up in your area (I have family in Calgary)!

---

 

I agree with this, keep planting them. Perhaps we should keep the cache price low and place 2 for each one that disappears (I can make a few caches for <$20 if I keep the prizes small). If our raider keeps coming we will be able to pick hir out as the exhausted person with the gps.

 

If the problem persists we may have to look at virtual caches. I really enjoy the hunt, but the logbook and prizes are a part of the fun as well.

 

I wish I knew the motive for the raiding of caches. In the USA the NPS is enforcing it's rules, and knowing this we can approach them for a solution. It is tough when we don't know why raids occur. If it is someone raiding them because they don't think we should be leaving these things out, that is an image problem we can try to deal with. If it is someone just raiding them for kicks I guess we just hope they get bored, grow up, or see how selfish they are and quit.

 

For now I guess we plant some more and see what happens.

[Guest EraSeek]

I don't know if this helps much, but it seems to me that the caches that get plundered are in populated areas. Perhaps their vandalism stops at the city limits out of laziness. The best caches are out in the wild anyway. They are the hardest ones to get to sometimes, and always have the most to offer. And I'm not talking toys or trinkets here, but place.

[Guest cavetoad]

Hey Jeremy,

here's an idea that could help to thwart the cache raiders and I think make the whole game a little bit more fun too.

Zoom those maps out one level ( or 2 ). From the ones that I've looked at before visiting they're way too close and almost give the location away without coordinates! If the maps are zoomed out we'll know how roughly to get to the place ( major roads ) but not so much as to give it away.

And the same will be true of raiders.

[Guest garyc]

First of all. If people are going to be petty enough to go into the woods for a prize that has the value of a couple of bucks then they are not stable. Who in there right mind would do the driving walking and exploring to find a few "trinkets"? It sounds like there is a few that do this and it would do more harm to the sport to put the good people out there in with the few who are not. Remember that there are always a few in every bunch that do something wrong. Lets not go too crazy just yet.

[Guest fiser]

I think the only way to eliminate raiding is to eliminate the physical cache and go virtual (easier said than done, I know). Raiders and complainers would have nothing to use against us.

 

Unfortunately our activity is dependent entirely on goodwill, and as a result a cranky person in Chicago/St. Louis/NYC could remove every cache in the Metro area in a weekend.

[Guest bacpac]

I have put together my first cache and hope to drop it off this weekend. I plan on putting mine in areas that require a minimum of one mile of walking. This should minimize vandalism.

[Guest OpNav]

tter to take your cache. IMHO. BJ

[Guest robamy]

quote:

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Originally posted by OpNav:

Another approach may be to use a lockable container. BJ

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Well somebody already did this to a cache a while back and the cache was destroyed. Although once they found out what was inside and what Geocaching was all about they offered to replace the lock.