Hunters. Boo.

[Rubbertoe]

I headed into SE Ohio today to do a little rescue work on an abandoned cache, and I quickly realized that it is getting to be hunting season. It is still bow season afaik, but the hunters were out everywhere.

 

All along the road by the woods, there'd be trucks parked every few hundred yards. And guess what... along with those trucks, nearly every few hundred yards there would be piles of beer bottles, or empty beer cases, or other various pieces of trash. It is really disappointing to see the way these people were treating the area where they were doing their hunting.

 

But that isn't the worst part... they weren't happy keeping their litter to the roadside - it was spread throughout the woods. This is the cache that I went to hide - and even though there are lots of people that visit this attraction, I've never seen it in a condition like this. Trash along the road, trash in the parking areas, beer cans scattered throughout areas that had been previously untouched.

 

Now, I know all you "good" hunters will get all up in arms and proclaim that there is no way I can be sure that it was hunters that did all these things. And, I suppose you are right... I can't prove anything, but I'm pretty dadgum sure.

 

I was there about a month ago, before hunting season... and while there might have been some bits of trash here and there, it was NOTHING compared to what the place looks like now. I mean, there were even tarps on the ground where apparently someone had set up camp and then just left all their trash and shelter making stuff behind. This isn't in some populated camping area - I'm talking in the middle of the frikkin woods where nobody goes, except for hunters and the random geocacher.

 

So, I'm a bit irritated with hunters in general right now. Yeah, I know they aren't all inconsiderate like that... but I sure saw enough pick up trucks parked along the roadside, along with matching remains from their coolers full of beer, so I think it is understandable how I'm making my conclusions.

 

I mean, christ... they have pick up trucks! What the hell is so hard about tossing your empties in the bed of your truck, instead of along the edge of the road? I guess I was assuming that hunters were also "nature people" that might be concerned with what they did to an environment. Obviously it is more about getting a buzz and "shootin' stuff" rather than any of that "getting back to nature" BS that you might hear.

 

The NEW Toe Pages

[GeoStars]

but I know exactly where you're coming from. It's not limited to public hunting areas. Every year we find trash left behind by people hunting illegally on our land. Not as bad as when we first moved here, we've made it quite clear that we won't tolerate it, but we probably will never completely stop it.

 

I'm sure like most situations, it is a minority giving all the decent hunters a bad name. We are a hunting family as are most of our neighbors. That's one big reason we catch so many trespassers, we're out there too.

 

As far as hunters being "nature people", I'm sure most are. But there are far too many just like you described. Only interested in getting liquored up and shooting anything that moves. In addition to trash, we also find the remains of 4-5 deer every year in our pines that someone shot but was too lazy to track. We let people track wounded deer on our property, all they have to do is ask. For some, it's too much work and much easier to just shoot another one and hope it falls right next to their stand.

 

I'm a little peeved with hunters right now too. Mostly because I ran across 3 of them in our lane tonight on the way home. What is it about private property that is so hard to understand?!!!

 

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

 

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.

[Rubbertoe]

I hope people can see how this relates to our hobby as well, and how it really shows that we have to do our best to make sure geocaching never gets a bad name.

 

The way I am thinking of those hunters I saw today... it really makes me realize how just a few bad geocachers can have the potential of really giving all of us a bad name. One too many geocachers breaking down trees, trampling in off limits areas of parks, leaving behind trash, etc... that's all it takes to start a bad word of mouth. I always try to explain that to folks... most people understand.

 

But anyway - yeah, I agree with what ya said... a lot of the hunters are fine, it is just the handful of morons who make it look horrible for the rest of them. In fact, a hunter found one of my other caches by accident and just wrote a note in the log that he hid it back where he thought it was supposed to be. That was a nice change from the normal looting and overall theft of caches that I've been noticing lately.

 

The NEW Toe Pages

[+kevin917z]

i hunt all the time i pick up all my trash and even the shell casings. i have seen the same thing happen but not from hunters, sometimes people go out to the middle of the woods to drink beer, party, and do drugs. i have found trash like this on the private property i hunt on that has 800 acres of forest. you cant just say that its hunters. i have seen lots of people with coolers hunting, take a look inside the coolers, sometimes they have ice in them to put the meat in to keep it cool, but you are right sometimes, every group has some bad apples even geocachers and backpackers, you cant just pin something on a particular group, individuals maybe. 95 percent of hunters i have come across are good people who pick up after themselves, but there are those who dont care

[Geo Quest]

Yea, I've seen hunters like you describe. I've also seen fishermen, boaters, campers, hikers, and bikers like you describe. It's not a "hunting" problem. It's a people problem. Some people just don't care about preserving the natural beauty of an area.

 

Unfortunately, most people look at who did the littering and then put a label on them. "Look, a hunter did this". Hunters are bad. Then they apply their new-found sterotype to the whole group. Instead they should say: "Look, an uncaring, insensitive slob did this".

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

[+trippy1976]

I went to the Metro Beach on Lake St. Clair today in Michigan and it was TRASHED. Why? A similar reason. Fisherman. But instead of beer cans it was those little tubs bait comes in. EVERYWHERE. Treasurehawk and I gathered 3 trash bags full of JUNK withing 20 minutes. It was unreasonable.

 

The most ironic thing was that on the lid of every fish bait container is printed these words of wisdom:

 

"Don't Litter!"

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

[+1NatureMom]

Mother Nature is crying over here. What ever happened to unity & becoming one with Nature? Shame,shame,shame. This Nature gal is truely saddended.

Geocachers, please be careful out during this season~wear bright colors.

Signed,

Mother Nature

[Mr502go]

As a fisherman myself, it makes me sick to see trash all around places to fish. Half of the fun in going fishing is to be outside. I hate gettin tangled up in someone's fishing line as much or more than the next person. Also one reason it's so hard to fish anywhere anymore is these buttknuckles leave their garbage everywhere, so there's always "no fishing" signs posted, drives me nuts. I mean your bag was obviously big enough to bring the refuse in, it's big enough to get it out!!!

[+AltDotAir]

A few bad eggs does not the entire dozen make.

 

In our many years living in Pennsylvania, one of the biggest sites on the planet for hunting, I found hunters to be among the biggest advocates of open space, proper husbanding of wildlife resources, and individual care of wildlands. In all honesty, despite my inherent distaste for the pastime, I have to admit there wouldn't be as many nice hiking places without it, and for that matter the deer population (at least) would be even more wildly out of check than it already is.

 

That's not to say I wasn't annoyed year after year with finding shell casings, wounded animals left to fend for themselves, and the aforementioned beer-can dropping members of the species. However, I've made it a rule of thumb never to scold drunken people with firearms who have a habit of wounding my fellow mammals. Go ahead, call me a sissy.

 

In any event, if you're newer to the outdoors because of geocaching, remember hunters help keep wildlife out there, otherwise they'd have nothing to hunt. We're all outdoorspeople.

 

More importantly, you have to learn to just skip the outings during hunting season. It's too dangerous. Stick to areas far from legal hunting areas and even then exercise extraordinary caution. That's why it's a hunting SEASON. They've got their time of year, you've got the rest.

 

== Alt Dot Air ==

[+AltDotAir]

Idiots who don't read/obey no littering signs.

Idiots who drink in public.

Idiots who ignore prohibitions...whether it's hunters, fisherfolk, or geocachers (please see the ongoing thread on the 'banning' of the virtual geocache).

Not "Fishermen", Not "Hunters", Not "Geocachers".

 

The common enemy is idiots.

 

== Alt Dot Air ==

[Rubbertoe]

I should probably edit the subject of this thread to read:

 

"Hunters near Zaleski Forest in SE Ohio on Nov 13 around 3pm to 4pm. Boo."

 

I'm pretty certain that the majority of those folks were the ones making the mess there, since the trash was usually scattered right in the area of the trucks and cars that were parked along the road, by the woods. But yeah, I understand what you are all saying... I'll try to keep my irritation focused in the proper direction.

 

The NEW Toe Pages

[Seeker BP]

Come on Rubbertoe, you can complain all you want, but it will do no good. People who litter are not gonna listen. They were brought up to be slobs, and they will always be slobs. All we can do is keep picking up after them. I am a little peeved that you place the responsability on hunters alone. For the most part hunters appreciate the woods and the surrounding areas, but I have cleaned up many hunting camps. But it is also hikers, and local kids who have to go sneak into the woods to drink there beer and have to throw there trash out so they don't get caught on the way home. To lock it onto a certain group is a NO NO. Its a combination of many UN-EDUCATED Morons!!! Seeker BP

[+brdad]

Often see the same thing here. I blame it more on percentages. If only 2% of people do this crap and a particular cache gets 100 visitors a year, we're only talking 2 times trash might be left. Deer hunting is many times more popular than geocaching, so that same section of woods might see 25 visitors a day. Not to mention, from what I see, if hunters hunt in goups, they hunt with their own kind, in other words decent with decent and idiots with idiots. Get 8 of those idiots to come hunting overnight together and look out!

 

So ya, hunters most likely did it, but not because they were hunters, it's because they were idiots.

 

Just because the GPS knows where it is does not mean you do!

[+Pharisee]

The unsociable attitudes you've all been posting about are not limited to the USA... We have morons in the UK as well. Can't blame hunters over here, though as we're not allowed to carry guns and go off into the boonies with 'em. I enjoy fishing as well as geocaching and like most of you, I'm appalled at the amount of rubbish that gets left, obviously by fishermen, around the lakes and along the river banks of our country. I try to do my bit and I'll clear up any rubbish thats been left where I've chosen to fish and I'll take it away with me. If one or two others would do the same it'd make the situation a whole lot better.

 

John

 

*************************************************

 

To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

[dave and jaime]

i as much of a sportsman as anyone with hunting, fishing, camping and hiking and i agree that the general problem isnt hunters but a$$holes who have no respect for anything. this particular problem appears to be hunters but persons from all groups using the outdoors have littered at one time or another. my problem here would lie with the hunters who thought firearms and miller time went together like wine and cheese. chr!$t, a loaded firearm, 24 beers , several idiots, one game animal and the great outdoors, what a combination.

[+Planet]

I started fishing because I was living on a lake and when they lowered the water level in the fall I was cleaning the debris off my beach area. I found some fishing line, I grabbed it, it was long, I followed it right the other end and there I had myself a custom made graphite rod with a Shimano reel. Then one day I was cleaning trash out of a state park and I found 7 Michelob bottles surrounding a fully stocked tackle box. So about 13 -14 years later and several Jumbo Brown Troutskys later I still fish. So not all trash is bad! You can't blame this on all trash. One man's junk is another man's (or woman's) treasure.

 

Actually, trash on the landscape really bugs me, I have been picking up litter for years. Even got my picture in the local paper with 2 of my cousins on their old International tractor with the trailer loaded with garbage just from our stretch of the road, and our big sign that read "Anti-Litter Campaign" Come to find out years later that my cousin just wanted to be able to drive the tractor on the road without getting in trouble and he did too, all the way to the dump. But we filled the trailer!

 

I really do think a lot of fishermen are slobs leaving behind bait containers, fishing line, broken bobbers and the like. I always pick up what I can.

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

[+Markwell]

Hmmmm....

 

Sounds like a perfect opportunity for a Trash Out event. Wait until hunting season* is over in that area, then the GEOCACHERS go in and clean up. That would get the land managers' attention that we are trying to do some good.

=================

*I'm not saying it's hunters, but if there was no trash before hunting season and the area's covered in trash during/after hunting season, it's hard to defend the group. If a local team of Geocachers starting drinking heavily and leaving trash all over the place, Geocaching would get a bad name, too. And I'd want to do something to rectify that - not just get defensive about the besmirched name.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

[+creagerstonefamily]

"Outdoors" is there for someone to use however they see fit.

 

Unfortunately, there are a lot of a$$holes in the world that feel it's their "God/Allah/Whathave-you" given right to kill an animal out of season, to leave their beer cans whereever they please, to intentionally run over a turtle crossing the road, to leave their bait containers where they please, to dump their old refrigerator, to set oil wells on fire to hide a cowardly retreat (admittedly, very limited scope), and to just toss their damned cigarette butts right out the window.

 

Of course, the last one can happen anywhere, but especially in the urban outdoors. It's the one that pisses me off the most. I'm all for personal freedom as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights, but I would happily vote for a Constitutional Amendment that would give people the right to slap someone who tosses a butt out the window.

 

...and I'm not talking about a little slap. A hard one that leaves a handprint would be fine by me. If enough people got that, perhaps people would get the point.

 

It's all about people being selfish.

[+briansnat]

I've always said that fishermen and smokers are the biggest slobs on the planet. I'm an avid flyfisherman and am disgusted by the debris left by other fishermen along the river. And you know it's fishermen doing it, because 90 percent of it is those plastic bait containers.

 

As far as smokers...just walk along the shoulder of any road...'nuff said.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs, but by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" -Max Beerbohm

[dsandbro]

Don't blame it all on hunters.

 

One time while backpacking in a remote wilderness I ran into a fouled camp. The campfire was still burning, human waste and trash was scattered about, green trees had fresh hack marks.

 

I cleaned the area up as best I could and when I checked at the Ranger Station and asked who was issued permits for that area I was surprised the only other party was a sierra club outing.

[+FFC]

I think brdad makes an important point. Any group flocks to like minded individuals, therefore the idiot hunters who trash their hunting 'spots' can be found in the company of other idiot hunters who leave crap all over the place. Same with any group be it mountain-bikers, hikers, or geo-cachers. It multiples the effect and leaves a bad taste for the next group who comes along.

[Cache Canucks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave and jaime:

"...my problem here would lie with the hunters who thought firearms and miller time went together like wine and cheese. chr!$t, a loaded firearm, 24 beers , several idiots, one game animal and the great outdoors, what a combination..."

---

That's the first thing that jumped out at me about this discussion as well . Hunters, like any other group, can't be painted with the same disparaging brush but, based on the 'Toe Talk', they certainly appear to be at the root of the problem in this particular instance. Not only is what they're doing ecologically irresponsible (the trash), it's downright dangerous (booze 'n guns).

[+eroyd]

Here's a twist.

 

I often hunt while geocaching in remote areas when legal to do so. I make a reasonable attempt to pick up bits of trash I come accross. The funny thing is, in some recent occasions, is that the place I picked up most of garbage was around Geocaches.

 

It's a people problem. Where ever you get a concentration of people your going to get more trash. It's mathmatical. Whether it be opening day of deer season or a outdoor rock concert.

 

Still, as a hunter I get frustrated with slobs and would of liked to of thought hunters as being more environmentally conscience.

[+sbell111]

I hate people.

 

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

[boreal jeff & sons]

I went moose hunting with a good friend of mine. We enjoyed a canoe ride up a small, remote river. We decided to beach the canoe and enjoy the unspoiled beauty. When we got on land my chum pulled a can of beer out of his pack. I was little apprehesive about having to hunt with someone under the influence but then when he was done, he dropped the can on the ground. I said that the can would be there for years and it spoils the view. He said that we probably would never be back there in our lifetimes and so what did it matter.

 

So, here was a completely decent human being, who didn't think it mattered about leaving a beer can in the forest. I picked up the can and put it into my pack.

 

Litters and slobs come in all packages. You make a mistake by just thinking the problem is one group.

 

Every hour spent geocaching is added to the end of your life

[+Planet]

quote:

---

Originally posted by boreal jeff & sons:

I said that the can would be there for years and it spoils the view. He said that we probably would never be back there in our lifetimes and so what did it matter.

 

---

 

I hereby give you the right to slap that guy hard enough to leave a handprint!

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

[The Face]

quote:

---

Originally posted by sbell111:

I hate people.

---

 

I agree with this sentiment the most.

 

As a hunter also... I can tell you we arent ALL like that(slobs). I'm also POSITVE..people in EVERY group do stupid crap like this,as evidenced by some of the other posts to this thread.

 

R-Toe- you wanna make a difference in that area,look up some of the outdoors/hunting sites that people in your/that area use and flame the hell outta that behavior. also try contacting your local game wardens, and perhaps try the Isaak walton league for your area. another group that would be MOST willing to help you would be the REAL hunters in your area, I know I've reported this type of thing on more than one occasion. http://www.iwla.org/

[magellan315]

I have to admit I like Markwells idea about holding a trash out event after hunting season. Give the land managers plenty of advance notice, they may help out and then take lots of pictures to show them. Maybe next year they'll keep a closer eye on the area during hunting season.

 

There should be a good example of a trashoutout event on the boards(Uh Markwell good you show us where it is?), with a link to the website. Just use it as a template for your eventy.

[+Desert_Warrior]

Yeah, that's it! Just tell them. Give them a peice of your mind. REALLY. Tell them you think they are slobs, their mother must have raised pigs and been confused, and you are not going to tollerate their trash one minute longer.

 

Yes... tell them all. And don't let the loaded rifles in their arms and alcohol on their breath slow you none. You are right and they are wrong! So tell them.

 

Mike. KD9KC.

El Paso, Texas.

 

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

 

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

[rm17]

so uhhhh.....what's your point??? Complaining on here aint gonna stop it.

[+Logscaler and Red]

that beer always comes on sale about the same time as "hunting" season starts ??? :confussed: I see in the news tonight that a gun distributor is being held responsible for a weapon so can we go one step further and hold alcohol distributor's responsible for drunk drivers or alcohol related troubles ???

How about fast food chains for the litter??

How about the mines for the metal for the cans??

 

Where will it stop if people do not start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of waiting for someone to call them to the carpet for their action??

 

Small rant. Thanks for your time. Oh, I also hunt, fish, hike, backpack, canoe but I can not stand the taste or smell of booze.

 

Later, logscaler

[+Markwell]

quote:

---

Originally posted by magellan315:

There should be a good example of a trashoutout event on the boards(Uh Markwell good you show us where it is?), with a link to the website. Just use it as a template for your eventy.

---

 

That would be here.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching