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Working on permission to place cache need help....


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I just got into geocaching and already found my first cache. I wanted to start placing some cache's as my local area is cache deficient. The nearest cache is some almost 20 miles north and the nearest south is over 50 miles. We have abundant state parks and city parks in the area but much to my surprise they weren't as open as I thought they would be when I called asking to place a cache in the areas. The Kankakee State Park told them I must give them the following information before they can move the request to a higher up:

1. Written request explaining how the geocaching works as well as a proposed location.

2. The location shown on a USGS 7.5 minute topographical map. (don't have a clue about this one)

3. Contact person(s) responsible for maintaining the cache or any groups associated to the cache.

4. List of the initial contents.

5. Bring in an example of the exact container being used.

 

Does anyone have any experience dealing with Illinois State Parks and the probability they will approve a cache if I jump through all the hoops? Can anyone explain how I give them request #2 above? I would appreciate all your feedback on this. TIA

 

geotrakinfamily

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i can get the maps at a local book store, or sporting goods store. the hoops in this case seem good, at least they didnt say no. when you put the mark on the map, watch the datum that the map is in, and change your gps to the same for coordinates. i have a brunton eclipse gps compass that makes this very easy to do. look at it as a lesson and opprotunity to learn and spread the word about the sport. a local reporter had never heard of it, and was not open at all to learning about it as he thought it would encourage people to be sneaky and maybe train people to do illegal acts. changed his mind when other papers in the area printed stories about it, but still wont print anything about it. keep up with the work, it will pay off and is awesome to see the first find pop up on your email!!

 

It's not a sport unless there is something dead in the back of the truck when you get home.

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Despite some of the success stories you read of in the forums, you will find that many agencies do not welcome geocaching, or are lukewarm at best about it.

 

As far as the map, you can plot the cache on a Topozone map (www.topozone.com), then transcribe the results to a USGS map. The latter is available from the USGS (of course) and also in many outdoors stores.

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" - Abraham Lincoln

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Ahhh the sweet smell of red tape.

 

Here is my take.

 

1. Written request explaining how the geocaching works as well as a proposed location.

 

www.geocaching.com has the answers. I'd point them at that site or print out the 'what geocaching is page'.

 

2. The location shown on a USGS 7.5 minute topographical map. (don't have a clue about this one)

 

They don't need this map. If it's a park odds are it won't show on the map. Still you can post your proposed cache location on geocaching.com (Hide the cache but don't make it public) then print the topo that you can from there. That makes it easy.

 

3. Contact person(s) responsible for maintaining the cache or any groups associated to the cache.

 

That would be you. No problems here. You can be contacted via geocaching.com and the cache page.

 

4. List of the initial contents.

 

Again no problem. You have no control over final contects, but you can list the initial ones.

 

5. Bring in an example of the exact container being used.

 

I guess you need to show them what ammo cans and tupperware look like for review and comment. So that's what I'd do. An no they can't keep it.

 

Wherever you go there you are.

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Check other caches in your area to see how often they are visited, and present those figures along with any other info. Park authorities envision hundreds of geocachers going off-trail in their park. Let them know that this is not the case.

 

You might pick a spot that you like for the cache, but let them know that you will work with them to choose an appropriate location. (This, of course, negates the need for the map.)

 

All things considered, I don't think that they are asking for too much.

 

Good luck, and please keep us updated.

 

geospotter

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Don't ask, do.

 

There are two kinds of people in the world; those who believe they cannot do anything without specific permission, and those who believe they can do anything not specifically prohibited.

 

Was there a policy in place and public knowledge that forbade geocaching? If not, don't ask. If you ask and the person to whom the question falls decides that it's too risky for their job or will require extra effort to find the answer, they will say no, just because it's easier.

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OK, I'll admit it's bit extreme to use one color of paint for every situation. You have to be the judge of when it's best to ask first or place first. I just lean towards placing first. I asked once and the rigamarole I would have to go through to place it made it not worth my time or effort.

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And there is a local Chicago Area Group as well.

 

Find your coordinates and plug them in to LostOutdoors.com. It will provide the Topo Map you're interested in.

 

Feel free to e-mail me, as I just finished working with DuPage County Forest Preserves on permission. The Kankakee State Park could use another cache - can you say Shaw-wa-nas-see?

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

 

[This message was edited by Markwell on January 06, 2003 at 02:30 PM.]

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There are a wide range of opinions regarding permission to place caches. Some believe that unless geocaching is expressly prohibited, or regulated, asking permission is unnecessary. Others think that permission should be a prerequisite to placing any cache. The attiude of some cachers is to place first and apologize later if someone complains, while others will spend months jumping through bureaucratic hoops to place a single cache.

 

Even land managers differ. Some cavalierly dismiss our sport. One I know of said "Do you believe someone had the nerve to ask permission to put one of those thing here". On the other hand, others encourage it and some actually place their own caches. Some are fine with the sport as long as someone asks permission.

 

I think however, most land managers are in the middle. Their attitude is the Sargeant Schultz's version of "I KNOW NOOOOHING, NOOTTTHING". They are aware of our sport but choose to ignore it. They have bigger concerns...poachers, illegal 4 wheelers, dumpers, etc... UNTIL someone comes along asking for permission. Suddenly they are forced to make a decision...to put therselves on the on the line. Too often they take the easy route and just say no, or forumlate arbitrary and extremely restrictive policies.

 

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on January 07, 2003 at 07:03 AM.]

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The map is the easy part. All they want to know is where the cache is going to be and they want it mapped. The 7.5 min quad is the standard base map resource mangers use. All the Topo map products (Maptech, Garmin, Magellan, National Geographic etc.) and even freebies from Topo Zone or Terra server fit this description. They want a 1:24000 scale map so printing any of the above listed in this scale even if its only a standard letter sized piece of paper should be acceptable. Giving them a map in a 1:12000 scale also may win you brownie points since this is easier for them to use.

 

Also talk to the Recreation technicians when approaching any government agency regarding caching. They are always looking for ways to justify their paycheck and may bend over backwards for you to increase the user days of the resource and hence justify thier position and funding.

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quote:
Originally posted by BrownMule:
Originally posted by Criminal:

_Don't_ ask, do.

 

There are two kinds of people in the world; those who believe they cannot do anything without specific permission, and those who believe they can do anything not specifically prohibited.

 

Was there a policy in place and public knowledge that forbade geocaching? If not, don't ask. If you ask and the person to whom the question falls decides that it's too risky for their job or will require extra effort to find the answer, they will say _no_, just because it's easier.


 

Criminal I had to wait for a while before I responded to your post. I can only say, actions like that will be the death of Geocaching.

 

________________________________________________________________________

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes.

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