+nincehelser Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Whenever I hear the term "trade up", it usually means one gets a better car, house, or wife So if you "trade up" when geocaching, wouldn't that mean you get the better end of the deal? "Trade up" just seems to be the wrong term for what I think people are trying to say... George Quote Link to comment
+Freelens&Mosie Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Trade down doesn't sound any better. The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Quote Link to comment
+RocketMan Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 It sounds fine to me. Do you have a better term? Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 In context it is obvious that we are intending that we either trade a higher grade item than we are receiving, or trade even, as in trading an item of equal value, or don't trade at all as we do not want to "trade down" the cache. Just my opinion, of course. "Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life. Quote Link to comment
+ron50eli Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Well, I'll give you an example. A cacher takes free tickets, a mini flashlight & lets say some offical geo items. Leaves some "quote" WalMart crap. This person logged this. Another>>>Took pack of AA battaries & $5. Left McToy. Get the picture???? rocker51 Quote Link to comment
+ron50eli Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Sorry..Get the meaning? rocker51 Quote Link to comment
+nincehelser Posted January 5, 2003 Author Share Posted January 5, 2003 Googled "Trade Up". I couldn't find a definitive definition, but it's pretty clear the way geocachers are using the term is backward from the rest of the world. OK, how do we fix this? Quote Link to comment
GRANDMASTER CACHE Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Nah, there's nothing to "fix." The term is precisely correct, because we are speaking on behalf of the cache. We "trade up," and that means the contents of the cache have been "upped," ya know? You are correct that it means to "improve" which is what we are doing when we "trade up" a cache. We are "improving it." There. Now it's fixed. Grandmaster Cache Quote Link to comment
+Geo-Johnson's Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 I have to agree with nincehelser. When I first started reading the message boards, I couldn't figure out why everyone was complaining about cache contents depleting and at the same time telling people to trade up. Then I thought the term was being used as a joke.....As in "always trade up " Now I realize that it means to leave more than what I take. Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners. Quote Link to comment
+creagerstonefamily Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 "Trade up" refers to the cache contents and not your collection of goodies. Quote Link to comment
+bigredmed Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Trading Up is the same use as the old homestead rules that the homesteader had 5 years to "Prove Up" their land. This was the same as the current term "improve". When we talk about trading up in regard to a cache, we are talking about improving it by improving the contents of the cache. By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I. Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 It appears backwards because of the point of view. The correct point of view is from the cache's perspective, as though it were an entity. You trade up the value of an item for the cache, and the cache becomes worth more, not the cache owner or the finder. In my opinion, I’m happy when the trade is roughly even. If we were all trading up, caches would be getting plundered left and right. I archived a cache recently and couldn’t bring myself to recycle most of the contents, they were crap. But value is relative. The naked plastic doll that I couldn’t bring myself to recycle into the new cache may have held a great deal of value to the child who left it. Picture a little girl torn between her dirty doll (great value to her) and something she sees in the cache container. Does Dad or Mom rebuke her for making the trade? I hope that a Dad or Mom in that situation will drop a few extras in to compensate if they are able. So yes, the cache will get crapified regardless, but the game continues. There are bigger things to fret about. That being said, an adult who drops in a cracked and dirty range golf ball for a rare or expensive item should be strung up by their genitals. [This message was edited by Criminal on January 06, 2003 at 09:39 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+ron50eli Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Ahhh, but the quote reads...trade up, "trade even" which I think is the main factor here, or don't trade. Just go caching, put some good stuff in there or not. rocker51 Quote Link to comment
solohiker Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 The first rule of geocaching states that the contents of a cache will decline in value at an inverse rate of the number of visits. Quote Link to comment
+nincehelser Posted January 6, 2003 Author Share Posted January 6, 2003 A few seem to think the point-of-view from trading up should be the cache, but to me that's grasping at straws. Caches can't trade. They're inanimate objects. Logically, the point of view should be of the object doing the action. In this case the person. George Quote Link to comment
GRANDMASTER CACHE Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 For shame.... Caches inanimate???? Why, they are an extension of every living, breathing soul who partakes and bestows. I am of course, joking (I wouldn't want you taking me literally!) That said, I would totally understand someone making a personal decision to not use a term they are in angst with. Grandmaster Cache Quote Link to comment
umc Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 So what exactly are you trolling for here nincehelser? ______________________________________________________________________________________ So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Trading Up means exactly what it has come to mean. Trade the cache itself up. You on the other hand can walk away with all the McToys for your collection that you need. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+Centaur Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Oddly, I had no problem knowing that "Trade Up" ment leave as well or better then you took, when I first started caching. Seemed only natural to me. ----- Perspective is a two edge sword. If you dont like my view, Ill use Perspective. Quote Link to comment
skydiver Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by nincehelser:So if you "trade up" when geocaching, wouldn't that mean you get the better end of the deal? You are. This is a little complex, so try and follow my train of thought. When you "trade up" a cache by improving it's contents from what they were the moment before you found it, you're contributing to the overall health of the cache. When other geocachers find healthy caches, they feel better about the sport, and are more inclined to continue to participate, and even place caches of their own. When a cache owner performs and maintenance visit on one of their own, and find it nice and healthy, they are also more likely to place more caches. So, by "trading up", you are in fact contributing to the health of the sport as a whole, which will lead to more good caches for you to go hunt. So, you in fact got a very good deal out of it (even if the payoff takes a little while)... ... well, it makes sense to me anyway. --------------------------------------- "We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things." Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) --------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment
+nincehelser Posted January 6, 2003 Author Share Posted January 6, 2003 Just stating facts. If some of you want to believe it makes sense, then fine. If pointing out the error makes me a troll, then fine. However, it does go against the common usage of the term "trading up" in the world at large. Do a google search on the phrase "trading up". You'll see what I mean. Quote Link to comment
+Centaur Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by nincehelser:... However, it does go against the common usage of the term .... COMMON ?????? Geocachers ???? Never. We are an uncommon breed. Prolly why we don't use common meanings or terms. IE: You're EPE is showing... McToys suck... Markwell this thread... (Look THAT up in your Funk and Wagnal ) (BTW.. You're more then likely right. However just with any new sport or endevor, it will bend words and meanings to fit the need.) Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 One of the problems here is we are working from a flawed premise. Everyone seems to be working from the perspective of either the person who finds the cache, or of the cache itself. I think this is a mistake. The cache owner is the one who has placed the items to be traded from their cache, correct? Then the cache owner is the true initiator of the transaction in the first place, the cache finder is the second person to come into it. Therefore, the cache owner is the one who is actually "trading up" even though they are absent at the time of the conclusion of the transaction. So, this means that you as the finder are not really "trading up" but the owner of the cache is, and they are doing so as an understood condition of the caching process. If we fail to leave an item that is of more value than the one we take, (and it doesn't have to be of tremendously greater value, and it is a subjective matter of course) or at least of equal value, then morally we have looked the cache owner in the eye while picking his pocket, in a manner of speaking. The other alternative is to simply log an entry in the logbook, and enjoy the hunt for it's own sake. Thus my signature line.... it implies that I will trade like I would if the cache owner were with me at the time of the trade. It also espresses that I will trade with others as I would have others trade with me....hmmm, that sounds vaguely familiar somehow....LOL. Anyway, I hope that clears things up, at least as to how I view it. "Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life. Quote Link to comment
GRANDMASTER CACHE Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 nincehelser, I'm just gonna have some fun, so in advance don't take it too personally. But I assume you have thick skin if you ventured this type of "concerned topic" and expected to be taken, uh, "seriously." Other mishaps to concern yourself with? 1. Tight-end. What gives? I suppose it could mean two things to different folks. Ladies probably think the football players have one, while guys relate it to a position (in a football formation, mind you ) 2. Here, this mental confusion might hit closer to home. "Cache in, trash out." I hope in your endeavors to desire things be taken literally you don't go "trashing things" on your way out. As in, "I went caching, and man, did I trash on my way out! You should see how trashed I made it!" (Of course, in the perverse world of geocaching, we take "trash out" to mean carry a bag, pick up any trash, and make the place less trashy. 3. And what gives with this whole "Groundspeak?" How aboutsa movement to make this 1984 Orwellian term of doublespeak a bit more "proper and correct"? Does the ground really speak? I mean, literally I suppose I should give credit to the Indians who actually did "listen" to the ground with one ear to hear the advance of white settlers who were about to invade North America's pristine territory and begin the process of butchering the Queen's language. But what are geocachers doing revelling in these "Groundspeak" forums. Really, we're all about sattelite-speak You know, I think I'm going to start a movement to get that changed, lest I stir too much while trying to get some sleep. Uh, actually I think too many "movements" tend to stink up a place. So I'll just bite my tongue (ooops, I don't mean literally - it's just an expression) and keep my movements to myself. Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm attackin' ya... Just having my bit of fun with wordplay. You're right on track with your line of thinking that many words/phrases, etc. are misused, butchered, etc. Heck, if you travel a few states from wherever you are you're gonna get a real headache with language transformations... It's invaded our spoken sector as well! Did you know some folks "axe" people every day? Yep, every time they have a question they "axe" someone. Terrible, terrible. Egads, I've "added down" to another thread... And here I was doing so good with my nicespeak. Have fun, and enjoy life. I'll bet in a few hundred years "trade up" will mean something like "I'd like to trade up to Jupiter," meaning an earth-inhabitant would like to trade planetary residency and go to Jupiter. Hmmm.. Will that be because Jupiter is actually "up" or will it be because Jupiter is better... Heck, if we're stumbling and fumbling around with cache-trading, our future generations are gonna have real problems. Grandmaster Cache Quote Link to comment
+Web-ling Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Ok, we use the term "trade-up" the opposite of the way most people do. We do a lot of things most people don't exactly understand. How do most people use the term "Markwelling?" Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Huh? I thought "Trash out" meant we were supposed to get drunk after logging the find. You mean I've been doing it wrong the whole time? Quote Link to comment
GRANDMASTER CACHE Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Well, sure! Trash out can mean precisely that! Swigging out! Isn't Markwelling precisely clear? To the geoworld it is like a badge of honour to note a previously-discussed topic. It shows a responder is "in-the-know" and in our "hunt and seek" mentality some folks desire to "markwell" and get the equivalent adrenaline rush as a FTF. To a geomuggle? (oops - sorry Harry, to burst into your world and kidnap/reapply your term to our world) Well, Markwelling is something you would say in that same Orwellian 1984 doublespeak fashion in regards to a friend named Mark who, of course, would be "recovering" from an illness or other misfortune. As in: Player #1: Ah, poor Mark... He's been so sick. Player #2: Alas! He is Markwelling! In no time he'll be better! Player #1: That's good to hear. He's been Markailing with that darn flu. Hey, if anybody's still into this frivolity, they had that coming! Grandmaster Cache Quote Link to comment
+Centaur Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 .... anyone who take any of this seriously... Deserves to! Quote Link to comment
GRANDMASTER CACHE Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 It is rather refreshing! Agreed, Centaur! Although we might need some of your signature "mood desiccants" to keep things happy! Grandmaster Cache Quote Link to comment
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