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Our Cache Pages Have Been Altered?


Point&Go

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Hello,

Our user name is Point&Go and we very disappointed to find out that all our cache pages with <html> tags have been tampered with. We would like to know why EVERY SINGLE ONE of our Cache pages has been altered in some way or another. We put a lot of effort and time into making our pages unique, different and fun for everyone as so with all of our caches. We had NO Warning that our pages would be altered and the page sounds turned off. The midi music, .wav files, .gifs and .jpegs serve a purpose if not in the form of a hint to help people find the cache but also make the pages fun to view! We did NOT intend to have just plain black and white unformatted text on all our cache pages; if we wanted to read just plain black and white text we would open our newspaper.

For example we have a cache named Hogans Cache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=53732

Without the Hogan Heros theme music playing in the background and the photo of Schultz on the cache page what’s the point to this cache? The cache container is an ordinary looking oak tree stump that is about 10” in diaminater and about 2ft tall. The fake stump has a Large PVC pipe container that is attached to the bottom so when the stump is pulled up, it reveals the cache – just like Hogans escape tunnel out of Col. Klinks camp.

Another example: Captain Morgans Treasure

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=75612

When you pull up this page with your child and tell him that we’re going to go look for a Pirate treasure chest and you showed him the cache page on your computer and all that he saw was black text how excited do you think he would be….? Without the pirate music playing in the background and the photos displaying like intended? One of the photos is a link to a map that needs to be printed out and taken with you – without that map you Will Not be able to find the treasure. Again it takes a certain thrill out of it..

One of the reasons we joined Geocaching.com was to have outdoor fun and adventures with our children. Telling stories of treasure and true adventure is one thing – but, to a child that can actually SEE and HEAR it on the computer screen in front of them before going to look for it is a completely different type of motivator for them. If there is no fun in it for them then why do we do it?

We have not found 1000’s of caches nor do we intend to try to CRAM as many caches as possible into a single day like many of the people out there that turn geocaching into some type of completion. We like to spend quality family time doing this with our children. We are sorry not everyone can load our pages at top speed or cram our caches into a list with 100’s of others at a time, but again it is QUALITY not Quantity of caches hidden or found. For example, we could go out and hide 50 micros caches in a single day and just post that there is a log book and people need to sign it, but what makes that find fun? Just another one to add to you ALL important found stat page? It should be about the adventure and unique and unknown places you have to travel to find them … but maybe we are missing something here?

Below is a list of all our active caches. Take a look, all the items that have been altered really do effect how the caches are viewed. We do not add items or sounds to our cache pages that DO NOT pertain to the cache in some way or another.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=75612

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=53732

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=73945

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=73018

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=66980

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=62969

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=62967

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=62962

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=59701

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=57765

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=55475

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=54084

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=51547

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=51359

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=50580

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=48857

 

Our travel bug pages have not been altered YET. So, if you would like to see how some of our pages looked before click the links below.

 

Captain Morgan’s Gold Coin

http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=43631

Sponge Bob Cache My Pants

http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=30882

Pandora’s Golden Key

http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=33986

 

 

Unfortunately we do not think we will be renewing our PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP when it expires nor will we be devoting anymore of our time to creating and hiding any OUT OF THE ORDERNARY caches – we see no point in doing it now if you’re going to take half of the fun out of it.

 

A Very Disappointed,

Point&Go

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Everyone's cache pages have been changed, they are working on the system, making some changes. I'm sorry you are disappointed, but I think there is only so much room for all this info with all these new people joining up. I don't know much about servers and HTML or anything, but I do know it all takes space of some kind somewhere. Now, I am not commenting in any way shape or form on your cache pages because I did not click on any of your links so please don't get me wrong. Cache pages with music don't excite me, I never have the sound turned on anyway. Dancing moving figures just distract me while I'm trying to read the cache description. A simple cache page is all I really need, and I know that's just my opinion. I have seen some nice backgrounds, but again, when I'm looking for a cache to seek, it's grab the page and run, please don't waste my ink. I will someday soon get a palm and it probably won't work with all that extra stuff anyway. All that extra stuff is just that extra, a little flash and fluff that I'm not paying any attention to anyway. Maybe there are people who do look at it. I've got an older set of eyes and I'm working on focusing on the letters written there. And like I said the sound is almost always turned off, and when I get out in the field am I supposed to have brought along a recording of it to go along with the cache? I'm sorry really I am, I just don't see the big issue with the changes. I know you worked hard on it and too bad those couldn't be grandfathered or something, but that's the way it is. You can still play for free.

 

Planet

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I wish when substantial changes were made, something would be said on the announcement board at the very least, or preferably a notice would be sent to all of us who signed up wanting to be "the first to know" about new things on the site. Many of the changes have been for the better, but they've NEVER been explained to the masses who don't hang out on the forums.

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All the images and music are stored on our own server not geocaching.com. We just made html links to them on our cache pages so they show up and played correctly when the pages are viewed. So it can not be a storage issue with them? We think people are complaining about the page load times because they are using a dial up connection to the internet not DSL or Cable. Also looking at some of the other posts, it seems to be the people with 1000's of caches found that are complaining about all the extra fluff on the pages - We do all the extra fluff on the cache pages for the KIDS not all the crabby old adults that are looking for is just very basic info - they just want the find as quick as possible.

Maybe they will fix it? We will see....

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quote:
Point&Go, in fairness to you I did go back and look at your cache pages. (Without sound, since our office doesn't have speakers on this computer). They are very nice. Besides sound, I didn't see anything missing on the first 6 or 7 caches.

 

Every single page has been altered from what it use to look like and things are also missing... ????

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It would of been nice for them to send an email out to all the users before making changes that will affect peoples work, to include the signature thing. At least give some time for them to make the necessary changes. I don't think it should of been on the forums only as many won't and don't come to them, especially if they have no concerns at the moment.

 

Brian

www.woodsters.com

 

My Stats

Found: 70

Hidden: 2

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quote:
Originally posted by Point&Go:

All the images and music are stored on our own server not geocaching.com. We just made html links to them on our cache pages so they show up and played correctly when the pages are viewed. So it can not be a storage issue with them? We think people are complaining about the page load times because they are using a dial up connection to the internet not DSL or Cable. Also looking at some of the other posts, it seems to be the people with 1000's of caches found that are complaining about all the extra fluff on the pages - We do all the extra fluff on the cache pages for the KIDS not all the crabby old adults that are looking for is just very basic info - they just want the find as quick as possible.

Maybe they will fix it? We will see....


 

Well, I wasn't crabby until I started reading these forums!! LOL icon_biggrin.gif hahahaha icon_smile.gif wink wink wink icon_wink.gif and all that. I have cable. I could give a hoot about load time. I just don't want to spend all day on my computer whenever the great outdoors beckons! You can load all the pictures you want on your page, and I'm still going to pass right over it to get to the good stuff, the stuff that counts, that clues to the cache, yes I want to get out there as quickly as possible, I'm getting old for Pete's sake! No time to waste here. So have fun with it, but me, I'm pulling up the printer friendly version of the page, last five logs (or not) and that's it. Off I go.....

(and yes I am stuck in the office today with nothing left to do)

 

PS, no kids here, never had 'em, never will.

 

Planet

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quote:
Originally posted by Point&Go:

Also looking at some of the other posts, it seems to be the people with 1000's of caches found that are complaining about all the extra fluff on the pages - We do all the extra fluff on the cache pages for the KIDS not all the crabby old adults that are looking for is just very basic info - they just want the find as quick as possible.


I cache with my kids, but they don't read the cache pages. All that extra fluff takes too long to download with my dial-up service. Whom are you trying to benefit?

 

That said, I agree that TPTB should make an announcement before making such changes to the site.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

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I use pocket queries and a PDA to cache now. I don't check cache pages anymore. When I did, I would edit out all the fluff and print out just the text portions.

 

I think TPTB are trying to make cache pages standard (oh, the horror!). It helps everyone by making them easy to reference by having everything in the same format.

 

Try telling a park ranger with little Internet expertise how to find info on 3 caches hidden by different people each with custom webpages. That's why Geocaching exists, to be a listing service for these caches. It makes life simpler to have everyone use the same format.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

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I don't have anything to do with altering pages, but one item I have to question is the use of copyright images.

 

Many users have Avatars or Signature blocks which feature items I know to have copyrights.

 

Music like the Hogans Hero's theme would too.

 

Now it is possible, those users have written permission from the holder to use these images, music, in this way.

 

If I were the 'publisher' I'd be shy from leaving those types of things on the site, unless I had legal advice it was ok.

 

As for me, I like those cache pages where the author has spruced them up a bit. Just seems nicer.

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quote:
Originally posted by Point&Go:

We think people are complaining about the page load times because they are using a dial up connection to the internet not DSL or Cable. Also looking at some of the other posts, it seems to be the people with 1000's of caches found that are complaining about all the extra fluff on the pages - We do all the extra fluff on the cache pages for the KIDS not all the crabby old adults that are looking for is just very basic info - they just want the find as quick as possible.


 

Since your throwing down...

 

More than half of everyone on the internet are still on dial-up. Dismissing their complaints of loading speeds is very disrespectful.

 

If your targeting just children, you're targeting a very small percentage. As mentioned most of them don't even look at or read the cache pages.

 

You mentioned that some of the images or music are hints for finding the cache. You are excluding the Automated cachers. Those that load queries and go. The images and sound files do not appear on the queries.

 

Sounds like you need to focus on the cache and not the pretty pictures.

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I agree that creativity is great. I also agree that if the TPTB were trying to make things standard, then that is fine. Sometimes uniform things are great and work better in the long run. I do still agree that they should of sent an email out to everyone notifying them of the changes that will be taken place. Those who still want to be creative can design a seperate page somewhere else and then link to it from the cache page. I think the problem is that they were being nice about it before and then now they are seeing it is more of a problem than anything and having to look like the bad guys. It looks worse now, than if it weren't allowed in the first place.

 

Brian

www.woodsters.com

 

My Stats

Found: 70

Hidden: 2

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quote:
Originally posted by Kite & Hawkeye:

I wish when substantial changes were made, something would be said on the announcement board at the very least, or preferably a notice would be sent to all of us who signed up wanting to be "the first to know" about new things on the site. Many of the changes have been for the better, but they've NEVER been explained to the masses who don't hang out on the forums.


 

I couldn't agree more. Most geocachers do not read the forums and only a small percent of those who do, do so regularly. The admin could do a MUCH better job of alerting the users of this website about changes.

 

southdeltan

 

For OPT-IN STATS, GO HERE:

 

http://www.keenpeople.com/stats/

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I am still on dial-up and although I hate the wait for graphic intensive pages (I'm used to the T-1 at work), I live with it. I don't write code of any sort, including HTML, but I do know that most HTML writers go to great lengths to minimize the download times of their pages.

 

That said, Point&Go, from what is still there on your pages, it looks like you take great pride in producing something that will be fun. You put time and effort into writing the code for your cache pages, coming up with a theme concept, designing/camoflaging your cache boxes, and then placing them. You are awesome. Way cool. For me, this is what it is all about. I wish you lived near me so you could place some of these incredible caches around here.

 

Matthew 5:1-11

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Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against interesting web pages. Go ahead and make it as unique as you want, on your own site. I come here for the cache listing service. I want to find the important info in the same place on every cache page.

 

I don't want to have some strange sounds coming from my speakers or have it interrupt what i am already listening to. I don't want pages that take extra time to load graphics and unusual fonts.

 

All that extra 'fluff' just gets in the way, on both printouts and PDA's. I don't shop from sites that are hard to navigate or too long to download from either.

 

I'd rather spend the time caching instead of trying to read your unique cache page. That's why I don't do many puzzle caches. It takes too much time away from the family to try and solve.

 

The family joins me on the hunt, not on the computer.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

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Boy am I surprised reading this thread. Point&Go seem to have everyone against them, but I think I know why.

 

I doubt there are many folks here that are in support of HTML being stripped from the cache pages. There is a long discussion (more than one in fact) about this in the Geocaching.com forum.

 

I appreciate creative cache pages. Not that creative pages hold my attention for long, since I want to be out hunting the cache... but creativity is good. And it sounds like your caches match the creativity of your pages.

 

What spoiled me was the tone of the initial post. Lots of people (including myself) were alienated by repeated comments that people trying to cram lots of caches are ruining your experience. It's hard to agree or sympathise with someone who speaks as though GC.com was created solely for their pleasure.

 

I think you're right, I just can't be on the same side of the fence as you.

 

Jamie

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against interesting web pages. Go ahead and make it as unique as you want, on your own site. I come here for the cache listing service. I want to find the important info in the same place on every cache page.

 

I don't want to have some strange sounds coming from my speakers or have it interrupt what i am already listening to. I don't want pages that take extra time to load graphics and unusual fonts.

 

All that extra 'fluff' just gets in the way, on both printouts and PDA's. I don't shop from sites that are hard to navigate or too long to download from either.

 

I'd rather spend the time caching instead of trying to read your unique cache page. That's why I don't do many puzzle caches. It takes too much time away from the family to try and solve.

 

The family joins me on the hunt, not on the computer.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness


 

IMHO, if all you want is a cache listing service, then use the Pocket Query function and something like CacheMate! I use both cable and dialup, depending on my location. I like to see the creativity of other cachers, both on-line and off. This whole game is about being creative.

 

As for the person who brought up the copyright issues, I would agree. I've seen many (altered) pictures that were definately copyrighted. The MIDI music? Well, there is alot in public domain too.

 

From past examples, I am sure that Jeremy is feeling violated by the keenpeople and other "leaching" and is trying to prevent that. Jeremy owns this game, true, and I have not seen too many examples of him letting anyone else in.

 

Bear & Ting

 

I thought I was a little off, then I looked at my GPS and discovered I accurate to 12 ft.

 

Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

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I'm pretty new to geocaching, but I've been around the internet for quite awhile. I must admit that I find informational web pages that download music to be extremely annoying.

 

I would have thought that the objective of the geocaching.com listings would be to provide the information in as precise a format as possible since it seems that everyone will either print the listing or download it to a pda.

 

That said, if someone wanted to include a link to an external website with more information, background, or even graphics and music I think that would be fantastic. I suppose that's why other forums disable HTML, but provide a mechanism for including links to external sites.

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If the fancy html on your cache page causes Watcher to choke, then I will never even *see* your cache page. And if it relies on images or other files in order for me to do your cache, these won't be on my PDA. I might open the page, but then I'll see [ img ] and cross your cache off my list as I drive to the next one.

 

Just one geocacher's opinion, but my 9-year old daughter has zero interest in looking at the cache pages. She just wants to get outside and hunt the cache. When her dad *does* load a page on the website, he wants it to load quickly on his dialup connection.

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

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quote:
Originally posted by Bear and Ting:

IMHO, if all you want is a cache listing service, then use the Pocket Query function and something like CacheMate! I use both cable and dialup, depending on my location. I like to see the creativity of other cachers, both on-line and off. This whole game is about being creative.


I do use pocket queries. When I load them into my Palm, there are all kinds of extra pages of junk from bad cache page formatting. Removing the fluff from the original page makes it more readable on my PDA.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

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Two things to note:

 

1) Leatherman, to claim that Point need to focus on the cache and not the page is simply not true. Go back to the top of this thread and read the description of their Hogan's Heroe's cache and you'll see that Point focuses on the cache *AND* the page. People using dialup and concerned about page load times should learn how to trim their page viewing such that things like music are never rendered for the page. Welcome to the internet, all of the pages can't be conformed for every user.

 

2) Do the admin making real changes to the website use a production server at all??? These html errors really seem like a huge error that should have been caught on a simulation server running everything the same but only a few of the caches listed...well, if you are in the website business, you know what I'm talking about. This should have been caught well before changes were implemented...and the changes should have been announced on the front page (or an updates page) of the site a week before implementation so people were not only prepared, but also able to check for those instances that can not be duplicated on the production server.

 

--

 

http://magazine.audubon.org/features0101/goodwood.html

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