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Found first cache full of religous "goodies" :o(


cyarnell
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I dont know if this is typical or not but I finally found someone to borrow a GPS from and my friend and I went looking for the closest one today.

 

Found it after looking for about half an hour, wow we just sat in the woods and looked at the thing first for awhile did not open it, cant believe we really did it! Then we opened it up with so much excitement, wodnering what was it it. My friend and I have been reading the boards here for a few days and expected stuff like light sticks and keychains and cards and toys and whatnot we brought a little mini toolkit to put in. but it was full of religious stuff, mostly traks from a church plus a bunch of jesus pins and stuff. some bumper stickers saying "god said it I beleive it" and some mini bibles too. the website said it was full of "goodies". we didn't think this was goodies. is this normal for goecaching cus a lot of the ones in our area were put there by the same person as the one we found. we looked at the persons profile they are obviously very religious.

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quote:
It was full of religious stuff, mostly traks from a church plus a bunch of jesus pins and stuff. some bumper stickers saying "god said it I beleive it" and some mini bibles too. the website said it was full of "goodies". we didn't think this was goodies. is this normal for goecaching cus a lot of the ones in our area were put there by the same person as the one we found. we looked at the persons profile they are obviously very religious.

What people seem to put in thiese things appears to be a reflection of themselves. In my case they tend to be full of bits of army stuff, patches, buttons, belt buckles etc. as I just retired from the army and I got a bunch of this stuff I'll never need again.

 

There are a lot of cache's out there which consist of nothing but the logbook - and still more that consist of nothing at all but a location.

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generally, or at least from the caches ive found, what youve found is not common (if thats good or bad im not implying!, no flaming please)

is the cache a theme cache? if it is that may explain it, if its not then perhaps that just the type of cache this person hides. if you dont like whats inside then either dont hunt this persons cache(s), or just hunt them but dont trade, just sign the log and leave the items there.

 

whack.gif

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Religious tracts and other ads are the same as brochures for a travel resort. Remove the tracts and any other items.

 

Honestly, a bible in a cache is not a big deal but Jehovah's witness in a can is a bit much.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Religious tracts and other ads are the same as brochures for a travel resort. Remove the tracts and any other items.

 

Honestly, a bible in a cache is not a big deal but Jehovah's witness in a can is a bit much.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location


buts thats all there was was that stuff. nothing else. we didnt leave our toolkit, just left we were bummed out
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There is no use in complaining about this type of cache - these cachers (whom I only know from threads on the forums) appear very committed and genuinely believe they are doing you a favour. It is fair to expect that the hiders of "theme caches" will be honest and up front and let you know what their "theme" is so that you have an opportunity to not to look for the cache if the nature of the contents is not "your thing". I hope you at least enjoyed the location - that's the part I find most satisfying.

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

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Well I understand your dissapointment as you are just getting started. But trust me, after awhile you really don't care what's in those caches, you just want to find them. Around here we get some religious material in a cache every so often. I just leave it put.

 

Usually you'll find dollar store items. I have enough of them myself. But that's the normal thing. Some cachers go way overboard with putting in very nice items.

 

Just go find a few more, you'll love it.

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

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If you think, even for now, that you're in it for the "goodies", look for caches that specify what items you might have to choose from. Even if it has been awhile since the placer hid it, the items will tend to remain consistant, though they also have a tendancy to degrade, though that is a separate topic and has been discussed to death.

 

Don't be discouraged by your first find. Hopefully it won't be your last. I'm sure that there are other cache placers in your area. Try some of their 'treasures'.

 

One of our caches consists entirely of paperback books, but you will be well aware of that if you come hunting for it. I have another container sitting next to my front door filled with new bagged-and-boarded comic books and action figures from comic books. Now, you wouldn't be disappointed to find that, would you? Just to point out that there are diverse contents. Don't give up!

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

 

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda, Jedi Master from Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

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I was re-seeding one of my caches recently and found a mini booklet of scripture passages. My first instinct was to pull it out, but on second thought, I decided that perhaps someone else might appreciate it. Who am I to decide what is a good trade item (within reason, as I've recently removed a used MetroCard, a pack of Bubblicious gum, a single,individually wrapped, Lifesaver (yes 1) and numerous, nasty McToys from my caches).

 

I'm not a religious person, but compared with some of the garbage (sometimes literally) I've seen in caches, I don't see the problem with religious items. Heck, I even left a Guardian Angel pin in one of my micro caches and it was one of the first items traded out

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I think the trip going and finding the cache is more important then what is in it. I could care less what is in it. I have even gone on a cache where I walked over ten miles in a wilderness, taking almost ten hours and just signed the log, took nothing and left a small item. I don't think you get the point about geocaching. Maybe you should return the gps to it's owner. Would you have not gone if you knew is was a religious cache?

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Personally, if I saw a themed cache with inspirational materials in it, I'd be thrilled and head right for it. I would enjoy picking up contemporary Christian music, videos, books, and possibly other things. And I don't consider tracts the same as travel brochures, although I don't think they're tradable cache loot, either.

 

But as someone who considers faith important, I also recognize the importance of being honest and giving others a choice. It smacks of deceit to fill a cache with ONLY religious materials and not let the seekers know it's a themed cache. It makes me think of my husband's most memorable Christmas, when he was 13. He opened up his large gift package looking for a toy and found a coat instead. It wasn't that he didn't need a coat, but the disappointment was terrific.

 

When I open up a cache, it's always like Christmas to me. And when I pack one, I want to include all different kinds of things that will delight the finder. As a Christian, I want to share my faith, but as a practical matter, there are more effective ways.

 

I saw a cache not too long ago called "what women want" and right up front everyone knew it was a themed cache with girly things in it (nail polish, cologne, and so forth). Thus any manly men (Hanz, Franz, and company) could elect to seek out another cache if the contents of this one mattered one way or another.

 

Letting folks know up front that a cache has a certain theme transcends whether faith-based materials are appropriate in a cache -- it wings itself directly to the real point in question which is not freedom to stock a cache as we please, but courtesy toward the finder.

 

Even God lets us know the deal up front and gives us a choice. IMHO caches stocked primarily with items pertaining to a certain faith, should offer "truth in advertising" to those who will seek it out.

 

-honeychile-

 

--

 

'*+.,_,.+*'`'*+.,_A joyful heart is good medicine!_,.+*'`'*+.,_,.+*'`

 

[This message was edited by honeychile on June 24, 2002 at 07:54 PM.]

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Let it be known that I don't care what someone puts in their cache. I just want to be able to hunt and enjoy the thrill of the find. So if any Jehovah Witnesses, Budhist Munks, etc. read this please go ahead and stash your cache in my neck-of-the-woods. I will enjoy finding it and appreciate your effort.

 

Every hour spent geocaching is added to the end of your life

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We had a cache down here done by a local church's children's choir as a sort of promotional thing. They did a good job, though, and while they had little notes about their play in it, it was still a real cache. In fact, I got a nice camo handkerchief thing from it (which has come in handy with my long hair).

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Religious tracts and other ads are the same as brochures for a travel resort. Remove the tracts and any other items.

 

Honestly, a bible in a cache is not a big deal but Jehovah's witness in a can is a bit much.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location


 

You might be surprised how many JW's are cachers -- I know several around here. I've been known to leave a few tracts in my own caches, along with regular cache stuff. Take it or leave it. I've seen several other caches with religious material in them. I don't see it as a problem. If you're disapointed with the contents of any cache, trade up! icon_wink.gif

 

Bluespreacher

 

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

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Religious items are illegal items in my eyes.

 

Its fine if people want to have that stuff outside of the game, but it should stay there.

 

I consider it to be commercial as people are trying to convert people to their belief.

 

When I come across a religious item such as a bible I usually change it out for something else or I simply remove it.

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Quote:

_________________________________________________

Cache In Trash Out

 

Religious tracts and other ads are the same as brochures for a travel resort. Remove the tracts and any other items.

_________________________________________________

Why would you remove the tracts and any other items found in this cache? I agree with the majority here, just finding the cache is reward enough your not really going to get anything you can't buy yourself at the local dollar store. There are rules set here for the types of caches you can hide, were you can hide caches, and what you can put in caches along with the travel bug rules that people are breaking all the time. For instance you can't hide caches in parks, well almost all the caches I've found have been in parks. I don't see anyone enforcing these! The people that put it there are concerned about you, the advice given above was given in my opinion without much thought, let the cache be!

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Talk of removing items of a religious nature left as trade items is kind of lame. I can rub my temples and predict that most of those in favor of removing religious materials consider themselves pretty "live and let live" in virtually all other aspects of their lives. What is it about faith that gets certain "open minded people" almost afraid or angry? Is it the rules of conduct and order that is tyically asked of certain religious folks (don't waste my time with the pedophile-priest thing, you hated religon waaaay before that)? I can't explain it. If anything goes, why not ones right to be a proud, overt Christian? (Most Americans that dislike things related to Catholicism generally don't mind other non-christian faiths. Another mystery....) I'm an active sportsman and a gadget guy. I hunt and fish. I leave things like lures, survival blankets, fresh batteries, multi-tools and things that I think are cool. My cache contributions tend to reflect my personality and my likes. I'm not overly religious. In all of the caches I've made or found, I've left one guardian angel medallion. I agree the original material should have been made known as it seems to have had a theme and so expectations were clear, but like the majority have said, this is really all about the hunt and that personal moment where one leaves a "Kilroy was here" contribution to a cache, in the form of a trinket and an entry into a log book. Kind of a posterity thing. If Kilroy happened to be all about religion and he wanted to leave behind something that might reach another cacher one day, then what is your hang-up?d

 

boo2.jpg

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Unless its dangerous, or food that attracts feral animals, tacky (ie. condoms), what a person leaves in a cache is his or her business and should not be prohibited. If you don't like whatever it is,leave it for someone else who might like it and trade for it.

 

Others can take the McToy instead. Now there's something that will inspire. icon_wink.gif

 

Alan

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I'm in the ministry (preacher plus a lot of other stuff) and I'll admit, when I first heard about Geocaching my initial reaction was that I'd love to leave little camo New Testaments in caches. Well, I checked on them and I just plain can't afford them right now. So, I'm stuck with a lighthouse pin that has religious significance if you're atuned to it (otherwise it's just a purty lighthouse).

To me the point is "take something leave something." No one is forcing anything down your throat if it's left in a cache. I would have loved for the original poster to have taken something or just left his tool kit for no other reason than to enrichen the next person's experience at the cache.

Each item left in a cache carries with it a little bit of the personality of the person who left it. If you take it, you've made a connection. If not, then it's there for someone who might.

End of sermon . . let's all stand and sing hymn # 345 . .. .

Bret

 

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.

When a man found it, he hid it again."

Mt. 13:44

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-------------------------------------------------

For instance you can't hide caches in parks, well almost all the caches I've found have been in parks.

-------------------------------------------------

 

Curious, where'd you see this rule? I've never encountered it on this website, or anywhere.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Religious tracts and other ads are the same as brochures for a travel resort. Remove the tracts and any other items.

 

Honestly, a bible in a cache is not a big deal but Jehovah's witness in a can is a bit much.

 

Jeremy Irish


 

I have to disagree with you on this one. If the "religious" material contains advertisments (BIBLES! BIBLES! BIBLES! ALL FOR UNDER $10!) then remove them. However, if it's like most (or all) of the ones I've seen in Virginia, it's not commercial in nature but rather an expression of someone's beliefs (ones that they probably hold dear to them). The value that they see in these leaflets is no better or worse that the thousand plus CCCooper throw-away keychains I find in every cache I visit (someone feels there's intrinsic value in them). When I see these keychains or leaflets I roll my eyes and leave them there (expect one leaflet that I found to be terribly funny, I couldn't resist taking it for a laugh ... ). As far as someone deciding that a Bible has less reason to be in a cache than a dog-chewed tennis ball and "simply" removing it, do you take the Bibles out of every hotel/motel you stay in? Take off your cache-police-hat and ignore things that don't interest you ... someone else might want it

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quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:

... it's not commercial in nature but rather an expression of someone's beliefs


 

Leaving religious brochures/tracts in a cache is more than an expression of someone's beliefs. Its an attempt to change someone else's. That is "advertising" in its purist form. Not against the law, ... but it is advertising, and to me would be annoying to find in a cache and just shouldn't be there. (and no I am not "anti-religion" - I would be just as annoyed to find such advertising for any other cause (including commercial and political)). Some "soft sell" items, which serve a useful or ornamental purpose, such as a keychain with a logo on it, a "Jesus pin", or a small bible would not be as annoying to me.

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

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These seem common in the caches I have found around Omaha. They are annoying, and I have asked people who stop at my cache to not leave them. I plan on dumping them during cache maintenance visits if they show up. For me as a religious person, I can understand people's fervor and their belief that these are of value, but this is a game played for recreation, not redemption. Many of us lead fairly stressful lives and use these kind of games to unwind. We don't appreciate garbage filled caches and we don't appreciate caches filled with tracts from the Holy Church of ____ .

 

To those who obsess over the toys in caches, and the other items that seem to be "GeoTrache"; as long as the item is not illegal, or just obvious garbage, I say ignore it. This may be a new person that doesn't want to commit a lot of cash until they know more about the game, or some player who is not in a position to afford nice stuff, or a kid who thinks that the stuff he/she is leaving IS good stuff. There are more important things to be thinking about.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Religious tracts and other ads are the same as brochures for a travel resort...


Jeremy, I acknowledge that you have the right to set the "rules" here, but I have to disagree with your logic that equates religious tracts with trash and travel resort brochures. I've read a lot of religious tracts, and ALL of them have been an attempt to give something without charge. By contrast, ALL of the travel resort brochures I've read are COMMERCIAL in nature and are an attempt to get something (your money).

quote:
Remove the tracts and any other (did you mean religious?) items...

I don't think you intended it this way, but it appears you're advocating cache-raiding, at least to the extent that it will purge caches of all religious material.

 

quote:
Honestly, a bible in a cache is not a big deal...

This seems to contradict your previous statement. If it's not a big deal, why should it be removed? Or are you only advocating emptying caches where the contents are exclusively religious but allowing for the occasional Bible (but not tracts) in other caches?

 

Your word is law on this site, so please clarify your intent. In my (any many others') opinion, it would be a mistake to declare geocaches "religion-free" zones; and adding tracts and Bibles to the "prohibited" list of explosives, ammo, drugs, alcohol, and food is unjustified. But if that is your intent, make it clear.

 

Respectfully,

 

Worldtraveler

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

but I have to disagree with your logic that equates religious tracts with trash and travel resort brochures. I've read a lot of religious tracts, and ALL of them have been an attempt to _give_ something _without charge_.


 

I dunno, every time I've ever had someone try to change my heathen ways, they always wanted me to give my life to some god or other. In my opinion, letting some imaginary being's earthly representatives tell me what they think it wants me to do with my life is a pretty steep price.

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

I dunno, every time I've ever had someone try to change my heathen ways, they always wanted me to give my life to some god or other...


Are we still talking about a piece of printed material in a box, or have we digressed off-topic?

 

Worldtraveler

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

I've read a lot of religious tracts, and ALL of them have been an attempt to _give_ something _without charge_. By contrast, ALL of the travel resort brochures I've read are COMMERCIAL in nature and are an attempt to _get_ something (your money).


 

Sorry but I don't buy this for a second. Are you honestly trying to to tell me that churches don't want your money? Name one church that you have attended that didn't collect tithing or pass around a collection plate. My family was duped out of a few hundred thousand after my grandfather died and they started working on my grandmother. Commercialism at it's worst. End rant.

 

Now for the original post, don't give up on caching because of cache content. After seventy some caches I only have one item that I have kept, and it is a gag item. I have left some pretty nice stuff, but rarely is there anything in them that I would walk across the street for. The real enjoyment is seeing new places, or figuring out a difficult cache. Everything has it's down side, but caching has a lot of up's too.

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Cyarnell-

 

I have been caching for a while now and have found many caches. The cache you found was not ordinary. I have only seen one cache that was religious in nature and it was themed so I knew it was going to be that way.

 

However, it is normal to find a cache and not be impressed with its contents. Normally, this is because it has degraded into a McTrash cache (see many other threads on this topic).

 

When I find one of these, I either don't trade, or I'll put something in, but not take anything.

 

This does not affect my enjoyment, however. It won't affect yours either. Remember the enjoyment you felt after searching for the cache for half an hour and finally finding it. That enjoyment is why I play the game and it sounds like it is why you do also.

 

That is not to say that I don't like the stuff. It is fun to go through the cache to see if there is anything cool in there. We all enjoy that part of the game, even if we know that the hunt is the most fun.

 

Have fun, go caching!

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quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:

...Are you honestly trying to to tell me that churches don't want your money? Name one church that you have attended that didn't collect tithing or pass around a collection plate...


Again, I wasn't writing about churches, and I wasn't writing about people; I was writing about the topic: religious tracts placed in caches. And I specifically wrote about religious tracts that I have read. I'm not asking you to "buy" anything. I simply stated the truth regarding the religious tracts and travel brochures I have read.

 

I'm sorry you feel cheated by the decision your grandmother made in dispersing HER money. If she was incompetent to make the decision or was somehow swindled, misled, cheated, or deceived into donating it, SHE would have a right to seek redress. If not, was it not hers to give as she desired? But your statement, "My family was duped..." makes it appear that others think THEY had a right to your grandmother's money. How is this different from your accusation made against the church?

 

Worldtraveler

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Why don't we agree to disagree on the religion topic. The other day, the discussion got pretty heated regarding politics, lets not go down that road again.

 

Everyone has an opinion on this issue and no one on these forums is going to be able to change that opinion.

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quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

Why don't we agree to disagree on the religion topic.


Too bad when this issue is raised it always gets framed as "the religion topic". The issue as I see it is "should caches be used for promotional purposes?". We know Jeremy's position on this - and it is one I happen to agree with - now is there anyone out there who disagrees?

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

Again, I wasn't writing about churches, and I wasn't writing about people; I was writing about the topic: religious tracts placed in caches.


 

And religious tracts are somehow separate from the people or organizations that printed them and distribute them? By that argument, a brochure for a travel company is innocent, too: it's not asking you to give anyone money. It's just telling you about sunny Cancun and how much fun you could have there. Oh, sure, if you take it seriously you'll eventually have to give someone something to get a chance at having whatever the brochure promises but - whether you want to believe it or not - that's true of tracts too.

 

If tracts aren't meant to be taken seriously, then they're trash, just like the used bubblegum wrappers and cigarette butts we all find in caches. If they are meant to be taken seriously, they're sales pitches, just like the herbalife ads we also find in caches, and the stated goals of whatever organization they're associated with make no difference. Either way, they don't belong in a geocache.

 

That said, I'd treat them just like the herbalife ads: I wouldn't take them out of anyone else's cache without trading something of greater value for them. Maybe by replacing the worthless tract with something useful, I can undo some of the damage done by the thoughtless person who put it where something useful could have been, and helped kill a tree in the process.

 

Note, too, that this only applies to tracts. Bibles have a few good stories in them, and the other religious stuff has some intrinsic value if you happen to need a keychain, or a tie clasp, or whatever. I wouldn't trade for that stuff, because I don't want to advertise for that particular organization, but other people might.

 

warm.gif

 

[This message was edited by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy on June 25, 2002 at 08:31 AM.]

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I don't disagree with you Seneca.

 

The position of Geocaching.com is that religious tracts are verboten. Therefore, they should be removed from caches, if found.

 

The discussion was moving away from that to become a more general argument regarding greed in organized religion. I think we can agree that no good can come from this part of the discussion.

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quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:

Name one church that you have attended that didn't collect tithing or pass around a collection plate.


 

I've attended services at quite a few Quaker meetings. I've never seen a collection plate passed at one. Generally speaking you'd be hard pressed to figure out how to contribute without asking someone.

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I think we have to be careful not to prohibit one kind of promotional item, but allow others. Some people think it is okay to leave the occasional bible, but not similar materials for less accepted religious groups. Or it is not okay to leave religious material, but okay to leave lots of other stuff with corporate logos all over them (indirectly or directly promoting their company and products). And who would argue that Ronald McDonald does not promote his wares. I don't think religion should be any more targetted than other groups and organizations. If I leave informational material for a local free museum or nature conservation area, probably few would comment or complain, but if it is material from a religious group it might raise some eyes. Both of these group while not requiring money to attend their groups are probably open to donations to support their cause and operations. So I would propose to be more lenient on what we allow, otherwise we will have to clear caches of all materials promoting anything else besides geocaching, and we won't have much left in the caches for trading.

 

Also I am very grateful to Jeremy et al. for all their work on the site and promoting/enabling us to have tons of fun. But I would say it is up to the geocaching community in general and not just Jeremy, to set general guidelines in what is okay and what is not. I don't think Jeremy wants to be in that role, based on his posts here and there, and we should not ask him to be the rules maker for all of us.

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I feel rather uncertain in posting here in that I have only been a member for a few weeks, and only found a few caches. I must throw out my perverbial two cents and see if I am out of line. My favorite items that we have found in caches, and tried to leave each time, are items of some local flavor. My 3 year old excepted, (she likes to take the junkie toys and nothing!) we enjoy seeing the items from far away places. A keychain from a realtor in Nebraska. (was that you, Shoe?) and similiar such "junk". I realize it is of no value, but we like to think the person who left it, really was from Nebraska. No one likes to open a cache full of paper regardless of the nature of the literature. Similairly, no one wants to open a cache full of McDonalds toys either. I have had great fun geocaching so far, but if it becomes a can full of paper and discarded golf balls or happy meal toys, the game will not survive. As I have read throughout the site, "good stuff" is not costly.

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Would Sbell have been more pleased to find McDonalds toys (clearly an advertisement) or pornography? icon_confused.gif

For me the hunt is the best part of the experience, I could care less what was inside and I'm not about to remove anything because I don't like it and do what with it? - is someone throwing away Bibles out there, not me - I'm not a religious "fanatic" but there's no way you'd ever catch me throwing away a bible. Live and let live.

 

Just curious - how many of you who are anti-religion believe that we are visited regularly by creatures from outer space?

 

UKULELE ANDY

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Religous freedom is a basic tenet of the American way of life and some of the attitudes against it scare me in a way that has nothing to do with religon. I'm the last person you could accuse of being a religous zealot, but what is so terrible about finding a religous item in a cache?

 

I have never left or taken a religous item out of a cache I have visited. I have never found one that was totally religous items but I know of a couple local hiders that always leave a few such items. While doing maintenance on a cache recently I found that one of them had left a bible, and since the container was not large and the bible was full size I thought about removing it to make more room. I decided to leave it and the next finder took it saying he had undergone several changes lately and it couldn't hurt.

 

To each his own, it is not illegal, immoral, nor in bad taste. Would you object to a child finding it? If you are only in this for the material goods get ready for a rude awakening. It is ok to log "took/left nothing" or to leave more than you take. I always try to take something but sometimes there is just nothing in there that looks worth toting out so I don't.

 

Jeremy you are wrong. If it doesn't interest you don't take it. Under no circumstance should you raid someone elses cache unless it is illegal, immoral, dangerous, or has an obvious problem that cannot wait for normal contact.

 

IMHO: Rusty...

 

[This message was edited by Rusty on June 25, 2002 at 12:20 PM.]

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Sbell111 said:

quote:
The position of Geocaching.com is that religious tracts are verboten. Therefore, they should be removed from caches, if found.


 

I fail to see that anywhere. Perhaps you might provide a link.

 

From the guidelines:

quote:
Caches posted for religious, political, or social agendas will not be posted either.

 

Nothing about religious items in caches.

 

From the FAQ:

quote:
What shouldn't be in a cache?

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache.

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.


 

Nothing about religious items here either.

 

I personally don't have a problem with religious items left in a cache. I just wonder how many people would complain about a themed cache built around Muslim materials...

 

Should geocaching.com permit religious themed caches? It would probably be easier if they didn't but I don't think treating all religious items as trash is the answer. I think there's a big difference between those little religious cards and a bible.

 

I also think that geocaching.com is a repository for coordinates to caches and trying to regulate what people put into caches when they aren't putting in something that is illegal, immoral or dangerous, is an exercise in futility.

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Please don't drag me into the religious debate. Personally, I have no problems with copies of the Bible, Torah, Book of Morman, Quran, et al being placed in caches.

 

I have not stated my religious beliefs on these forums nor have a taken a position in the current fray.

 

I have merely suggested that we need not argue about topics that are too ingrained to allow for any change in opinion.

 

Beyond that, we should follow guidelines in caching as established by Geocaching.com. As I understand Jeremy's post in this thread, the basic rule is books are OK, tracts are not.

 

Now where do I find one of those camo bibles?

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who says you cant hide in parks?? who are you qouting?

 

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

-------------------------------------------------

For instance you can't hide caches in parks, well almost all the caches I've found have been in parks.

-------------------------------------------------

 

Curious, where'd you see this rule? I've never encountered it on this website, or anywhere.


 

whack.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

 

The position of Geocaching.com is that religious tracts are verboten. Therefore, they should be removed from caches, if found.


 

Incorrect.

 

The position of Geocaching.com is that any cache with the main intent to solicit anything, whether politics, religion, or commercial ends, is inappropriate for the game and inappropriate for listing on the site.

 

Perhaps I was harsh for directing my comments to one religious sect (JW), and for that I apologize. Many religious sects go door to door soliciting converts. What I'm saying is that it is inappropriate to trick people into visiting a cache that was obviously created to attempt to convert you. And in this case it seemed to conveniently conceal what it truly was.

 

Organized religion is not on trial here, so don't divert the topic. If you want to put WWJD bracelets in caches, bibles, the Torah, a voodoo doll, feel free. But to create a box of tracts deviates from the light nature of the sport.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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quote:
Originally posted by Rusty:

Religous freedom is a basic tenet of the American way of life...


 

Um, yeah. What Rusty said.

 

The truth of the matter, no matter what anyone says (including myself), when someone gets to a cache site, they will react according to his or her own set of standards. All of you make rational statements and they are certainly well-noted, but if I get to a cache site, I will do as I please.

 

Fortunately, I'm neither for or against religion in this debate, so I will pretty much leave things as they are should I find such a cache. If the hunt or the view are especially noteworthy, I will thank the person who placed it, no matter what their motivation for placing it. I have, in one instance, removed a Book of Mormon from a cache and threw it away because it was a sodden lump.

 

Keep in mind, the only thing that binds us is we go hunting for geocaches. We have no belief system, moral standard, or political philosophy in common so these debates, while interesting, are merely an exercise. Granted, it's been mostly rational, which is why I hang out here rather than SlashDot or Kuro5hin.

 

Peace to you all and good hunting.

 

-E

 

--

N35°32.981 W98°34.631

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quote:
Originally posted by Ukulele Andy:

Would Sbell have been more pleased to find McDonalds toys (clearly an advertisement) or pornography? icon_confused.gif

 

UKULELE ANDY


 

My apologies to sbell, this statement was directed toward cyranell (sp?) or whoever started this endless debate.

 

Ukuklele Andy icon_smile.gif

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