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Found first cache full of religous "goodies" :o(


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This is all very interesting.

 

I threw a Book of Mormon in my first ever cache find. Interesting to see the comments. Other than that I never noticed or touched Religious stuff in any of my other 60 Finds.

Rotary Tree - (Geoffr524 - July 1,2001)

 

Geocaching is about the Outdoors and visiting places that you would never have gone to before, but was taken there by your GPS, and the thrill of finding hidden treasures. So this is what Geocaching is about, not about using Geo-Caches for objectionable stuff. Any OBJECTIONABLE stuff should be an e-mail thing, where you find out where the religious cache is through e-mail. Even that might be an objectionable item on the cache page.

 

Heres an Objectionable item:

A book called:

The Evolution of God's creation -

Where god created based on the Phyisical timeline in millions of years: The Universe, Dinosaurs, Pre-humans. etc.

 

That is not a real book, but it would have gotten a few people mad.(so it does not belong in a cache, unless it is an offset cache item in a ziploc bag)

 

Geocaching is not a materialistic thing at all, it is a way of getting people to enjoy nature period.........

 

5_Rubik.gifMy home page about GPS units and information

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quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:

In conclusion, let us agree on some things.

 

1. In light of the hot-button effect these two topics have in forums,Religion and Politics are two thread topics that are officially "archived" from these forums.

 

2. Caches are for the game, not for promoting anything else.

 

3. When placing cache items, remember the Golden Rule:

 

Cache unto others as you would have them cache unto you...


I can't agree on these things.

 

1. The topic here is not "religion" but whether it is appropriate to stuff a cache full of religious "goodies"; so merely forbidding certain TOPICS is not going to achieve your desired end.

 

2. There are numerous theme caches that promote activities/interests other than "the game" of geocaching. Would you exclude all of them or just those of a religious/political theme?

 

3. Golden Rule. IMO this is a great rule to follow, but it's also religious in its origin. Oh Oh! you've just violated your #1 rule. icon_eek.gif You can look here for a lengthly discussion on THAT topic. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Worldtraveler

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quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:

In conclusion, let us agree on some things.

 

1. In light of the hot-button effect these two topics have in forums,Religion and Politics are two thread topics that are officially "archived" from these forums.

 

2. Caches are for the game, not for promoting anything else.

 

3. When placing cache items, remember the Golden Rule:

 

Cache unto others as you would have them cache unto you...


I can't agree on these things.

 

1. The topic here is not "religion" but whether it is appropriate to stuff a cache full of religious "goodies"; so merely forbidding certain TOPICS is not going to achieve your desired end.

 

2. There are numerous theme caches that promote activities/interests other than "the game" of geocaching. Would you exclude all of them or just those of a religious/political theme?

 

3. Golden Rule. IMO this is a great rule to follow, but it's also religious in its origin. Oh Oh! you've just violated your #1 rule. icon_eek.gif You can look here for a lengthly discussion on THAT topic. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Worldtraveler

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Maybe everyone is afraid to broach the subject, but there is a greater evil lurking out there. One that is worse than porn, and politics and religion combined. Luckily I have not ran into any caches that have succumbed to this blight, but I am sure it will creep its way in. What is this evil you ask? One word, Realitors!

 

Let the flaming begin. icon_biggrin.gif

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Maybe everyone is afraid to broach the subject, but there is a greater evil lurking out there. One that is worse than porn, and politics and religion combined. Luckily I have not ran into any caches that have succumbed to this blight, but I am sure it will creep its way in. What is this evil you ask? One word, Realitors!

 

Let the flaming begin. icon_biggrin.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by k2dave:

 

For any of you who fear that by putting a 'tract' item in a cache will cause that person to convert - ask yourself does that make any sense at all? What lowly opinion of your fellow man do you have that he can be swayed so easily? Or more importantly what are you afraid of?

 

You may have a chance of getting a cacher to go to McD's if there is a extra value meal buy one get one free coupon but you are not going to change his faith.

 


 

If man was not so weak minded, there would be no evangelists. The key to every religion is that there is only ONE way and that is the right way and all other ways are WRONG and if you do not convert to that way, your way will condemn you live your life in pain and misery for all eternity. The goal of any religion is to convert non-believers into believers of that one way. Am I wrong? Quite frankly, I believe that EVERY religion that teachs morality (good vs evil, right vs wrong) is correct.

 

What is the oldest religion? Hindu, Islam, Christianinty, Judism? Was it the Eygyptians, the Greeks, the Azteks? Who is right? Who is wrong? This is a theological and philosophical debate that would and can go on for an eternity. This is not the place for this kind of debate/discussion (though I welcome this kind of dialog).

 

As for religious items in a cache, if you allow angels without complaint, then you must allow Miishu (I think that is what it is called, the Hindu elephant??) also without complaint. This is an international game, folks, Christianity is wide spread, but it shares the world with many other religions and faiths.

 

Can't we all just get along?

 

Bear & Ting

 

P.S. A new site, My American Freedom, is being launched. It is a discussion forum of Freedoms, Civil Liberties, Religions, and such. Feel free to take this discussion of religion there, if you like. There are still a few tweaks that need to occur, so bear with the admins.

 

Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

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quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:

Maybe everyone is afraid to broach the subject, but there is a greater evil lurking out there. One that is worse than porn, and politics and religion combined. Luckily I have not ran into any caches that have succumbed to this blight, but I am sure it will creep its way in. What is this evil you ask? One word, Realitors!


 

There for a minute I thought you were going to write "Insurance Agents." icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:

Maybe everyone is afraid to broach the subject, but there is a greater evil lurking out there. One that is worse than porn, and politics and religion combined. Luckily I have not ran into any caches that have succumbed to this blight, but I am sure it will creep its way in. What is this evil you ask? One word, Realitors!


 

There for a minute I thought you were going to write "Insurance Agents." icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

There for a minute I thought you were going to write "Insurance Agents." icon_wink.gif


 

I have been tempted to leave my card in caches with the note "if you were injured searching for this cache and need a lawyer, then call..."

icon_wink.gif

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

There for a minute I thought you were going to write "Insurance Agents." icon_wink.gif


 

I have been tempted to leave my card in caches with the note "if you were injured searching for this cache and need a lawyer, then call..."

icon_wink.gif

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

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Actually, we had to tell a guy last year that he can't show that a cache was sponsored by a realtor. So this has already happened.

 

There was a mentioned that a "themed cache" would be acceptable if it was listed as such. I suppose if you created a religion-themed cache and allowed anyone to place information about their own faith (or any faith), than it would be acceptable. I believe one such themed cache does exist which asks people to trade religious icons.

 

I can't speak to any other situations but the one set forth in this topic. In this topic, a cache was placed with no indication of what it was. A geocacher arrived to find it basically some marketing tool for a particular faith. I find that unacceptable since it was either unintentionally or intentionally deceptive, but deceptive nonetheless.

 

Faith is not on trial here. Organized religion is not on trial here. What I don't want is for religious organizations to get the impression that geocaching can be a new marketing tool to evangelize.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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quote:
If man was not so weak minded, there would be no evangelists. The key to every religion is that there is only ONE way and that is the right way and all other ways are WRONG and if you do not convert to that way, your way will condemn you live your life in pain and misery for all eternity. The goal of any religion is to convert non-believers into believers of that one way. Am I wrong? Quite frankly, I believe that EVERY religion that teachs morality (good vs evil, right vs wrong) is correct.


Actually, you are quite wrong on a few things here. You first statement on the existence of evangelists is predicated on the assumption that they exist only because man is so weak minded. There could be lots of reasons for an evangelist to exist, most tellingly, simply because they inherently believe the message they are proclaiming. At this point it has nothing to do with the mental capacity of others, but rather is dependent on the convictions of the evangelist. (For example, as a Happy PC owner, I consistently proclaim the wonders of Windows to my Mac friends. In a sense I've become an "evangelist" for PC's).

 

Secondly the key to all religions is not that there is only one way to God, and their's is the right way. Hinduism and Buddhism are quite happy to say that there are many paths to God. This plurality of paths is hardly discriminatory. In fact, right and wrong are hardly a realistic concept in Hinduism or Buddhism. Also, eternity as you have described is also not a normal concept to these two Eastern faiths. Nirvana is the absence of existence.

 

Third, as a Christian I can emphatically state that the biblical goal is to glorify God. Converting another person is not something I can inherently do, as I can't change the mind of another person. (Which is why I never fully understand the hubris about tracts or other literature). I can proclaim what I believe and know to be true - and in so doing I worship God, but converting people is His problem, not mine.

 

Finally, if every religion that taught morality was correct, there would be no differences between them. But there are huge differences in the beliefs and practices of various faiths. For instance concepts like heaven or hell are not realities in Hinduism, but are in Christianity. At this point one or the other is wrong or they are both wrong (the same is true in issues of morality).

 

But then this isn't really a theology class or a philosophy class, and the real question was should religious materials - particularly tracts - be placed in caches. You are correct in saying that if you allow a Christian tract of religious object you will have to allow something else from another persuasion. This I have no problem with, and don't really think you could enforce anyway.

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quote:
I can't speak to any other situations but the one set forth in this topic. In this topic, a cache was placed with no indication of what it was. A geocacher arrived to find it basically some marketing tool for a particular faith. I find that unacceptable since it was either unintentionally or intentionally deceptive, but deceptive nonetheless.

 

Faith is not on trial here. Organized religion is not on trial here. What I don't want is for religious organizations to get the impression that geocaching can be a new marketing tool to evangelize.


 

I too would agree, even though my dissertation up above might cause others to get off track.

 

Besides, Jesus wasn't laying tracts along the Sea of Galilee for some unsuspecting Jewish person to find. He was in their homes, and in their lives.

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quote:
Originally posted by Bear & Ting:

 

As for religious items in a cache, if you allow angels without complaint, then you must allow Miishu (I think that is what it is called, the Hindu elephant??) also without complaint. This is an international game, folks, Christianity is wide spread, but it shares the world with many other religions and faiths.

 

Bear & Ting


 

I beliee you are refering to "Ganesha" the elephant-faced Hindu god.

Here's a little information, in case you are unsure about Ganesha...

 

Ganesha - the elephant-deity riding a mouse - has become one of the commonest mnemonics for anything associated with Hinduism. This not only suggests the importance of Ganesha, but also shows how popular and pervasive this deity is in the minds of the masses.

 

The son of Shiva and Parvati, Ganesha has an elephantine countenance with a curved trunk and big ears, and a huge pot-bellied body of a human being. He is the Lord of success and destroyer of evils and obstacles. He is also worshipped as the god of education, knowledge, wisdom and wealth. In fact, Ganesha is one of the five prime Hindu deities (Durga, Surya, Shiva and Vishnu being the other four) whose idolatry is glorified as the panchayatana puja. The devotees of Ganesha are known as 'Ganapatyas', and the festival to celebrate and glorify him is called Ganesh Chaturthi. This year the Ganesha Festival falls on September 1.

 

Significance of the Ganesha Form

Ganesha's head symbolizes the Atman or the soul, which is the ultimate supreme reality of human existence, and his human body signifies Maya or the earthly existence of human beings. The elephant head denotes wisdom and its trunk represents Om, the sound symbol of cosmic reality. In his upper right hand Ganesha holds a goad, which helps him propel mankind forward on the eternal path and remove obstacles from the way. The noose in Ganesha's left hand is a gentle implement to capture all difficulties.

 

The broken tusk that Ganesha holds like a pen in his lower right hand is a symbol of sacrifice, which he broke for writing the Mahabharata. The rosary in his other hand suggests that the pursuit of knowledge should be continuous. The laddoo (sweet) he holds in his trunk indicates that one must discover the sweetness of the Atman. His fan-like ears convey that he is all ears to our petition. The snake that runs round his waist represents energy in all forms. And he is humble enough to ride the lowest of creatures, a mouse.

 

How Ganesha Got His Head

The story of the birth of Ganesha as depicted in the Shiva Purana goes like this: Once goddess Parvati, while bathing, created a boy out of the dirt of her body and assigned him the task of guarding the entrance to her bathroom. When Shiva, her husband returned, he was surprised to find a stranger denying him access, and struck off the boy's head in rage. Parvati broke down in utter grief and to soothe her, Shiva sent out his squad (gana) to fetch the head of any sleeping being who was facing the north. The company found a sleeping elephant and brought back its severed head, which was then attached to the body of the boy. Shiva restored its life and made him the leader (pati) of his troops. Hence his name 'Ganapati'. Shiva also bestowed a boon that people would worship him and invoke his name before undertaking any venture.

 

However, there's another less popular story of his origin, found in the Brahma Vaivarta Purana: Shiva asked Parvati to observe the punyaka vrata for a year to appease Vishnu in order to have a son. When a son was born to her, all the gods and goddesses assembled to rejoice on its birth. Lord Shani, the son of Surya (Sun-God), was also present but he refused to look at the infant. Perturbed at this behaviour, Parvati asked him the reason, and Shani replied that his looking at baby would harm the newborn. However, on Parvati's insistence when Shani eyed the baby, the child's head was severed instantly. All the gods started to bemoan, whereupon Vishnu hurried to the bank of river Pushpabhadra and brought back the head of a young elephant, and joined it to the baby's body, thus reviving it.

 

Ganesha, the Destroyer of Pride

Ganesha is also the destroyer of vanity, selfishness and pride. He is the personification of material universe in all its various magnificent manifestations. "All Hindus worship Ganesha regardless of their sectarian belief," says D N Singh in A Study of Hinduism. "He is both the beginning of the religion and the meeting ground for all Hindus."

=================================================

 

Now that I have clearly explained about Ganesha, I suspect that many of you will convert to Hinduism. (Hey, you gotta admit, this is certainly not your run of the mill carpenter diety! I say if you're gonna believe in some power-figure, let's make that figure as different and interesting as we can!)

 

(As a matter of a fact, the less like "US" the entity is, the more I might like her!) icon_biggrin.gif

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Bear & Ting:

 

As for religious items in a cache, if you allow angels without complaint, then you must allow Miishu (I think that is what it is called, the Hindu elephant??) also without complaint. This is an international game, folks, Christianity is wide spread, but it shares the world with many other religions and faiths.

 

Bear & Ting


 

I beliee you are refering to "Ganesha" the elephant-faced Hindu god.

Here's a little information, in case you are unsure about Ganesha...

 

Ganesha - the elephant-deity riding a mouse - has become one of the commonest mnemonics for anything associated with Hinduism. This not only suggests the importance of Ganesha, but also shows how popular and pervasive this deity is in the minds of the masses.

 

The son of Shiva and Parvati, Ganesha has an elephantine countenance with a curved trunk and big ears, and a huge pot-bellied body of a human being. He is the Lord of success and destroyer of evils and obstacles. He is also worshipped as the god of education, knowledge, wisdom and wealth. In fact, Ganesha is one of the five prime Hindu deities (Durga, Surya, Shiva and Vishnu being the other four) whose idolatry is glorified as the panchayatana puja. The devotees of Ganesha are known as 'Ganapatyas', and the festival to celebrate and glorify him is called Ganesh Chaturthi. This year the Ganesha Festival falls on September 1.

 

Significance of the Ganesha Form

Ganesha's head symbolizes the Atman or the soul, which is the ultimate supreme reality of human existence, and his human body signifies Maya or the earthly existence of human beings. The elephant head denotes wisdom and its trunk represents Om, the sound symbol of cosmic reality. In his upper right hand Ganesha holds a goad, which helps him propel mankind forward on the eternal path and remove obstacles from the way. The noose in Ganesha's left hand is a gentle implement to capture all difficulties.

 

The broken tusk that Ganesha holds like a pen in his lower right hand is a symbol of sacrifice, which he broke for writing the Mahabharata. The rosary in his other hand suggests that the pursuit of knowledge should be continuous. The laddoo (sweet) he holds in his trunk indicates that one must discover the sweetness of the Atman. His fan-like ears convey that he is all ears to our petition. The snake that runs round his waist represents energy in all forms. And he is humble enough to ride the lowest of creatures, a mouse.

 

How Ganesha Got His Head

The story of the birth of Ganesha as depicted in the Shiva Purana goes like this: Once goddess Parvati, while bathing, created a boy out of the dirt of her body and assigned him the task of guarding the entrance to her bathroom. When Shiva, her husband returned, he was surprised to find a stranger denying him access, and struck off the boy's head in rage. Parvati broke down in utter grief and to soothe her, Shiva sent out his squad (gana) to fetch the head of any sleeping being who was facing the north. The company found a sleeping elephant and brought back its severed head, which was then attached to the body of the boy. Shiva restored its life and made him the leader (pati) of his troops. Hence his name 'Ganapati'. Shiva also bestowed a boon that people would worship him and invoke his name before undertaking any venture.

 

However, there's another less popular story of his origin, found in the Brahma Vaivarta Purana: Shiva asked Parvati to observe the punyaka vrata for a year to appease Vishnu in order to have a son. When a son was born to her, all the gods and goddesses assembled to rejoice on its birth. Lord Shani, the son of Surya (Sun-God), was also present but he refused to look at the infant. Perturbed at this behaviour, Parvati asked him the reason, and Shani replied that his looking at baby would harm the newborn. However, on Parvati's insistence when Shani eyed the baby, the child's head was severed instantly. All the gods started to bemoan, whereupon Vishnu hurried to the bank of river Pushpabhadra and brought back the head of a young elephant, and joined it to the baby's body, thus reviving it.

 

Ganesha, the Destroyer of Pride

Ganesha is also the destroyer of vanity, selfishness and pride. He is the personification of material universe in all its various magnificent manifestations. "All Hindus worship Ganesha regardless of their sectarian belief," says D N Singh in A Study of Hinduism. "He is both the beginning of the religion and the meeting ground for all Hindus."

=================================================

 

Now that I have clearly explained about Ganesha, I suspect that many of you will convert to Hinduism. (Hey, you gotta admit, this is certainly not your run of the mill carpenter diety! I say if you're gonna believe in some power-figure, let's make that figure as different and interesting as we can!)

 

(As a matter of a fact, the less like "US" the entity is, the more I might like her!) icon_biggrin.gif

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

Rkprcg sbe qbt cbea, n zna pna bayl ernq fb zhpu qbt cbea.


 

You say that, but can you prove it? Everyone I know who's tried to find the limit has had to stop for... um... other reasons long before they reached it. But then, everyone I know who's tried to find the limit - my best friends Elliott and Sam - are pbpxre fcnavryf.

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

Rkprcg sbe qbt cbea, n zna pna bayl ernq fb zhpu qbt cbea.


 

You say that, but can you prove it? Everyone I know who's tried to find the limit has had to stop for... um... other reasons long before they reached it. But then, everyone I know who's tried to find the limit - my best friends Elliott and Sam - are pbpxre fcnavryf.


 

Hey,

 

Jung nobhg puvpxra cbea?

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

Originally I can't agree on these things.

 

1. The topic here is not "religion" but whether it is appropriate to stuff a cache full of religious "goodies"; so merely forbidding certain TOPICS is not going to achieve your desired end.

>>I agree that my experiences of hiking into the bush for a cache and finding that its full of religious material is off-putting, and I have no intention of continuing the spread of this material and have asked visitors to my cache to refrain from leaving them.

 

The point of #1 is that we seem to have digressed from cache etiquette to religion. This seems to have lengthened an otherwise fairly straight forward topic.

 

2. There are numerous theme caches that promote activities/interests other than "the game" of geocaching. Would you exclude all of them or just those of a religious/political theme?

>>If its in an interesting location or its a theme that is fun for the general population, then fine. If its an attempt to get me to go to Burger World at X location, then I would exclude them.

 

3. Golden Rule. IMO this is a great rule to follow, but it's also religious in its origin. Oh Oh! you've just violated your #1 rule.

 

>>>Its a golden rule that is based in virtually every religion in one form or another. So we will not offend if we use this paraphrase as most anyone will relate to it from his/her experience.

 

An alternative if you feel better:

 

Trash Ye Not the Cache of Others, Lest Others Trash Unto You.

 

Or: Leave stuff you would want to get, or don't leave stuff.

 

Anyway you want to phrase it, the fundamental problem is that players in this game fail to remember that opening a cache and taking something of value and replacing it with something that doesn't have value (to others) is not OK. That is my point.


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. . . placing tracts in geocaches would lead people to Christ then I would consider spending every possible moment stuffing ammo boxes regardless of what rules anyone laid down (though actually doing so would be a violation of my faith).

 

I agree that tracts should not be placed in caches though not necessarily for the same reasons as expressed by others. From faith-based and pragmatic viewpoints, I just don't think they are effective in such a context. Tracts in ammo cans remind me too much of lights under bushels. They can be great as support and followup for personal conversations, but not as a substitute for true opportunities to share the Good News.

 

I am a committed, believing Christian. It was the Bible and the personal witness of other Christians that led me to Christ. It was, however, a much longer journey than it needed to be.

 

Growing up, Christians would shove tracts in my face, tell me how awful I was then go on living lives that did not reflect their professed faith. Their intentions may have been honorable, but I did not see anything I wanted and fled.

 

The Christians who got my attention lead lives that reflect their faith spirtually and practically. I've seen what Christ does for them in every part of their lives. That kind of witnessing cannot be stuffed into an ammo can.

 

There are far too many Christians who merely profess their faith and far too few Christians who live their faith thus becoming lights unto the world.

 

Be Seeing You!

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quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

Jung nobhg puvpxra cbea?


 

Well, you know, lots of perfectly normal guys dig puvpxf, so where's the harm? In fact, just the other night I was at Xraghpxl Sevrq Puvpxra and I saw some particularly nice yrtf naq oernfgf that I just couldn't wait to get in my mouth.

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

Jung nobhg puvpxra cbea?


 

Well, you know, lots of perfectly normal guys dig puvpxf, so where's the harm? In fact, just the other night I was at Xraghpxl Sevrq Puvpxra and I saw some particularly nice yrtf naq oernfgf that I just couldn't wait to get in my mouth.


 

You are one sick little monkey! icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

Jung nobhg puvpxra cbea?


 

Well, you know, lots of perfectly normal guys dig puvpxf, so where's the harm? In fact, just the other night I was at Xraghpxl Sevrq Puvpxra and I saw some particularly nice yrtf naq oernfgf that I just couldn't wait to get in my mouth.


 

You are one sick little monkey! icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by cyarnell:

I dont know if this is typical or not but I finally found someone to borrow a GPS from and my friend and I went looking for the closest one today.

 

Found it after looking for about half an hour, wow we just sat in the woods and looked at the thing first for awhile did not open it, cant believe we really did it! Then we opened it up with so much excitement, wodnering what was it it. My friend and I have been reading the boards here for a few days and expected stuff like light sticks and keychains and cards and toys and whatnot we brought a little mini toolkit to put in. but it was full of religious stuff, mostly traks from a church plus a bunch of jesus pins and stuff. some bumper stickers saying "god said it I beleive it" and some mini bibles too. the website said it was full of "goodies". we didn't think this was goodies. is this normal for goecaching cus a lot of the ones in our area were put there by the same person as the one we found. we looked at the persons profile they are obviously very religious.


 

I am sorry your first experience geocaching turned into a disappointment. I can see where that comes from when the cache contains nothing of interest to you. I suggest you borrow that GPS again and try another cache (or two or three even). This time, lower your expectations just a bit. I find that caches rarely contain something I want to have. When that happens, I leave my signature and my signature item. The fun is in the hunt and the find. Sometimes I do find a real goodie. Since you've read the boards, you know many caches degrade in goodies. Don't let one experience sour you on the experience. Try again. I think you will find that you really enjoy it, no matter what is in the box when you find it.

 

Enjoy!

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I actually have next door neighbors that are Hare Krishna. They break out the tamborines and dance around a fire in their backyard every few months.

I can see the whole thing from my bedroom window.

 

In a way it's nice because it reminds me that I'm not in Duluth.

 

I've thought about joining some of their gatherings for the heck of it but I have this fear that I'd wind up at the airport wearing a pink muumuu and sport'n a semi-shaved head.

 

I can take one of them geocaching and report back what they decided to leave.

It might be interesting to find out if Transcendental mumbo-jumbo comes in handy during a tupperware search.

 

Yeah-yeah.... Chant *This*

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quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

I actually have next door neighbors that are Hare Krishna. They break out the tamborines and dance around a fire in their backyard every few months.

I can see the whole thing from my bedroom window.

 

In a way it's nice because it reminds me that I'm not in Duluth.

 

I've thought about joining some of their gatherings for the heck of it but I have this fear that I'd wind up at the airport wearing a pink muumuu and sport'n a semi-shaved head.

 

I can take one of them geocaching and report back what they decided to leave.

It might be interesting to find out if Transcendental mumbo-jumbo comes in handy during a tupperware search.

 

Yeah-yeah.... Chant *This*


 

Deluth? I always thought that Deluth was a *Superior* place to be.

 

--this coming from a michigan brat! icon_wink.gif Say Ya To Da U.P., eh?

 

196939_600.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

I actually have next door neighbors that are Hare Krishna. They break out the tamborines and dance around a fire in their backyard every few months.

I can see the whole thing from my bedroom window.

 

In a way it's nice because it reminds me that I'm not in Duluth.

 

I've thought about joining some of their gatherings for the heck of it but I have this fear that I'd wind up at the airport wearing a pink muumuu and sport'n a semi-shaved head.

 

I can take one of them geocaching and report back what they decided to leave.

It might be interesting to find out if Transcendental mumbo-jumbo comes in handy during a tupperware search.

 

Yeah-yeah.... Chant *This*


 

Deluth? I always thought that Deluth was a *Superior* place to be.

 

--this coming from a michigan brat! icon_wink.gif Say Ya To Da U.P., eh?

 

196939_600.gif

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I too am a complete newbie, but I'm going to stick my oar in anyway.

 

No, I'm not a troll (although my previous girlfriend may have made some mention along those lines...). I just took delivery on my new GPSr (Garmin GPSmap 76S -- but we can save the Garmin vs. Magellan flame wars for another thread). I'm hoping to get out this weekend and collect my share of scratches, poison ivy, and insect bites. I'm already thinking hard (smell that smoke?) about what items to bring along to trade, the possibility of designing my own collectible, and what I'd like to do when I'm ready to hide my own caches.

 

It seems to me that many of the posts on this thread have overlooked a significant point that Jeremy has alluded to twice. The original post (cyarnell on June 24, 2002) described the cache this way:

 

quote:
"...it was full of religious stuff, mostly traks from a church plus a bunch of jesus pins and stuff. some bumper stickers saying "god said it I beleive it" and some mini bibles too."

 

That reads to me as a cache containing *only* religious materials. There is a world of difference between a cache containg *some* religious item(s) among diverse other contents and one which contained *exclusively* religious material of the cache hider's own persuasion. This makes the cache owner's intent to promote his religious views unmistakable. Jeremy is right; the latter is "basically some marketing tool for a particular faith." I wouldn't be happy to find such a cache.

 

That's assuming I can find any at all!

 

JAR

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quote:
Originally posted by JAR:

That reads to me as a cache containing *only* religious materials. There is a world of difference between a cache containg *some* religious item(s) among diverse other contents and one which contained *exclusively* religious material of the cache hider's own persuasion. This makes the cache owner's intent to promote his religious views unmistakable. Jeremy is right; the latter is "basically some marketing tool for a particular faith." I wouldn't be happy to find such a cache.

JAR


 

Continuing with JARs comments, I am wondering if people have problems with religious theme caches in general, such as a cache designed to share and exchange symbols from all religions, like angels, mini-minoras, elephants, etc. Or they only oppose caches containing tracts and other marketing materials for specific religions. Please comment.

 

The problem is where do you draw the boundary between the two. From listening to everybody it seems like people would not be opposed to mini-bibles but in some form that could be considered marketing material as well, although it is not as easy to read as a fancy shiny pamphlet 'scaring' you into following a specific faith.

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To continue JAR and chloew's comments... icon_wink.gif

 

It all seems to boil down to being clear about the cache and its contents.

 

To the person seeking the cache: Take preventive measures. Research if it is a themed cache, or what items have been traded in/out of it.

 

To the person placing the cache: Make sure you are clear on your cache descriptions if there is a theme involved, and list the cache's original contents. If you do not inform your fellow geocachers about the theme/contents, and you clearly have one, it seems to go against the sportsmanship of Geocaching.

 

To each their own, I always say... but at least don't drag people unknowingly into your Jack Chick universe... icon_razz.gif

 

(it's a joke, son! a joke!)

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To continue JAR and chloew's comments... icon_wink.gif

 

It all seems to boil down to being clear about the cache and its contents.

 

To the person seeking the cache: Take preventive measures. Research if it is a themed cache, or what items have been traded in/out of it.

 

To the person placing the cache: Make sure you are clear on your cache descriptions if there is a theme involved, and list the cache's original contents. If you do not inform your fellow geocachers about the theme/contents, and you clearly have one, it seems to go against the sportsmanship of Geocaching.

 

To each their own, I always say... but at least don't drag people unknowingly into your Jack Chick universe... icon_razz.gif

 

(it's a joke, son! a joke!)

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“Watch those brambles Martha, you’ll tear yourself up.”

 

“But you know how excited I get Herman on the final leg to the cache. There it is. Wow! Wait. That’s strange. It seems to be glowing. Maybe it’s an Al Qaeda cache and they planted one of them “dirty” radiation type Tupperware’s we’ve been hearing about lately?”

 

“Oh Martha, you’ve got to stop watching CNN before you go to sleep every night. They’re giving you nightmares and making you nervous all day about everything. Well, open it up and let me know what’s in it. I‘ll wait over here.”

 

“You were right Herman. Can’t explain the glowing but there’s no bomb in here. Looks like a religious theme cache for the uncertain. There’s camo miniature new testament Christian bible, a Jewish star of David and a Hindu Ganesha. Do you think the cacher was a cross dresser too?”

 

“Nah Martha. He just didn’t want to offend anyone. You no how sensitive us cachers are? “

 

“Herman, oh my God. I just realized it’s Sunday and here we are caching instead of being in church. Do you think this is a message?”

 

“There you go again Martha. On the other hand…..Quick, sign the log and let’s get the heck out of here.”

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Jeremy you are wrong. If it doesn't interest you don't take it. Under no circumstance should you raid someone elses cache unless it is illegal, immoral, dangerous, or has an obvious problem that cannot wait for normal contact.

***

 

it's the find..the owner should have posted the contents as being religious in nature and then if you don't wanna look for it..that's your choice..but don't raid the contents and don't log a negative log..if you disagree..just find it & take nothing..leave a McDonald toy or whatever for the next guy and go find the next one..

 

barondriver1.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by barondriver:

Jeremy you are wrong. If it doesn't interest you don't take it. Under no circumstance should you raid someone elses cache unless it is illegal, immoral, dangerous, or has an obvious problem that cannot wait for normal contact.


 

I find it hard to say RIGHT and WRONG here, but what do you consider illegal or immoral? I mean, a cache filled with CDs of that "Rock and/or Roll" music would be considered immoral by some christians. Should they all be raided or removed immediately? According to you, they should be. But then, you would be imposing your moral values on us, wouldn't you?

 

Morality is a matter of perspective and interpretation, core beliefs handed down through the ages. Stories teaching us right from wrong have been told and then written throughout the ages. As one storyteller embelishes his story in one way, another tells it is his own fashion. Such is human nature.

 

Bear & Ting

One Nation, under it all

 

Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

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If this cache is/was posted as a themed cache, I have no problem with it. However, if it is a "religious" themed cache, I wonder what the owner would think if I took a bible (or pin, tract, etc.) and left a buddha pin, or maybe a darwin fish?

 

I think Dave Berry said it best:

"Have you noticed that everyone wants to share their relegion with you, but no one ever wants you to share yours with them?"

 

Shannon

VegasCacheHounds

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I really don't see what the big deal is with the items in this cache. Just look at this poll it suggest that no one really cares whats in the cache its the distance and location. This tells me that people are really just interested in finding the cache. For the most part there is nothing in a cache that I really want anyway so what do I care whats in it. There have been suggestions here about people with their own geo cards or coins, this is nice but why would I want to collect a card with some other geocachers info and picture on it, it's useless to me! Also people here have said they trade out the religous material just to get it out of the cache, what are you people thinking, just because you don't want it doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. If I found the cache I would appreciate the persons effort.

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I have placed religious items in caches, although such items are not the norm for me. I've taken religious items from caches. Some of the material I've agreed with, some I haven't. Some of it I have kept, some I trashed, and some I stuck in the next cache I came to. Not really much different than other stuff I've gotten from caches.

 

I really have no problem with a cache that contains mostly or all religious items. After a few people have been through, it'll all be golf balls and Happy Meal toys.

 

For the record, I'm a born-again Christian. However, I don't think leaving tracts in caches will ever be a particularly effective method of evangelism. A much more effective method of changing people's minds about Christ is to get to know them, so they can see in my own life how my relationship with Christ changes me.

 

We have a local cacher who leaves a small Budda in most of the caches he visits. Does it bother me? Not at all. When I find one, I ignore it. Would I hunt a cache that was full of nothing but little Buddas? Probably, but I wouldn't take one. Would I be upset if my young kids found a Budda, and wanted to keep it? No, because it would give me an opportunity to share with them the differences between Buddism and a relationship with Christ.

 

I'm secure enough in my own faith that I don't feel threatened by opposing viewpoints. I also realize that stuffing caches with tracts isn't going to change anyone's faith. But if someone else hasn't figured that out yet, and wants to do a cache full of tracts, that's their business.

 

It's not really any different than some of the caches that are full of other stuff I don't really care for. Part of what makes geocaching so interesting is the variety of cache trinkets I find. I don't really want most of it, but it's still interesting to find.

 

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I agree with Jeremy that we shouldnt set out to cram stuff down each other's throats or solicit our beliefs to anyone, but on the other hand, running across a cache like this wouldnt change or corrupt my life.. We run across offensive things everyday whether we are caching or not!

 

The mistake here was that this cache should have been labeled a theme cache, then there would have been no problem. We can make up our minds if we want to go out on the hunt. If you dont like it or want to do it, then dont! And if you do happen to find the cache by mistake, quit your whining and get over it!!!

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quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

Jung nobhg puvpxra cbea?


 

Well, you know, lots of perfectly normal guys dig puvpxf, so where's the harm? In fact, just the other night I was at Xraghpxl Sevrq Puvpxra and I saw some particularly nice yrtf naq oernfgf that I just couldn't wait to get in my mouth.

 

http://216.202.195.127/warm.gif


 

I think these two have been filled with the sprit of the lord.

 

Then again, if I bothered to translate it I might think diferently.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

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We propose a REGALIA cache (inspired by Ambrose Bierce) containing: Regalia, i.e. Distinguishing insignia, jewels and costume of such ancient and honorable orders as Knights of Adam; Visionaries of Delectable Bosh; the Ancient Order of Modern Troglodytes; the League of Holy Humbug; the Golden Phalanx of Phalangers; the Genteel Society of Expurgated Hoodlums; the Mystic Alliance of Gorgeous Regalians; Knights and Ladies of the Yellow Dog; the Oriental Order of Sons of the West; the Blatherhood of Insufferable Stuff; Warriors of the Long Bow; Guardians of the Great Horn Spoon; the Band of Brutes; the Impenitent Order of Wife-Beaters; the Sublime Legion of Flamboyant Conspicuants; Worshipers at the Electroplated Shrine; Shining Inaccessibles; Fee-Faw-Fummers of the Inimitable Grip; Jannissaries of the Broad-Blown Peacock; Plumed Increscencies of the Magic Temple; the Grand Cabal of Able-Bodied Sedentarians; Associated Deities of the Butter Trade; the Garden of Galoots; the Affectionate Fraternity of Men Similarly Warted; the Flashing Astonishers; Ladies of Horror; Cooperative Association for Breaking into the Spotlight; Dukes of Eden; Disciples Militant of the Hidden Faith; Knights-Champions of the Domestic Dog; the Holy Gregarians; the Resolute Optimists; the Ancient Sodality of Inhospitable Hogs; Associated Sovereigns of Mendacity; Dukes-Guardian of the Mystic Cesspool; the Society for Prevention of Prevalence; Kings of Drink; Polite Federation of Gents-Consequential ; the Mysterious Order of the Undecipherable Scroll; Uniformed Rank of Lousy Cats; Monarchs of Worth and Hunger; Sons of the South Star; Prelates of the Tub-and-Sword.

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I have thought of many comments, but I've deleted them all, to keep it friendly. I live in Utah, and have seen no religious caches, except for a well known guy who put one on church grounds, and it was full of regular toys. I respect everyone's views, but I have always been of a scientific nature. I have a Darwin emblem on my truck. But I have never seen any religious material in any caches here in Utah. We all love the outdoors. And that's what geocaching should be about. Hiking, outdoorsy stuff. But part of my signature will always be the evolovefish...

 

We evolve. The data is in the strata.

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