Should this be a cache?

April 1, 2003

One of the admins suggested that I ask your opinions if this should be a cache or not. Here is the info:

I wanted to place one in this area, it's a wildlife refuge, but the problem is...various trails are closed randomly depending on which birds are nesting. Sometimes the roads are closed off also to protect the wildlife.

This virtual would be at the only place that is always open. It's a viewing area. We looked everywhere for a place to put a real cache, even a micro, but there isn't a place that would not be right in the open. It would disappear the first day.

This is really a place that I want to share with other people. You can watch bald eagles and ospreys hunting for food, in the early morning there are elk herds eating in the mist from the wetland, and there are more different species of ducks and geese than you can image. It's truly a place of beauty that is not visited much because people don't realize that it is there.

I would love it this cache could be approved it would enable more people to see the area.

2.7k · April 1, 2003

Do you have the actual text description of the cache? If it's being setup as a virtual, the questions must be of type that can be answered by only being there. Some virtuals are based on historical locations and one could possible research the answer by using the Net rather than being there.

Another idea would be to make this area a first part of multicache. Hide a sticker with coords on a post or something and than have the user go to a nearby spot for a cache.

If the text you posted is meant to be teh cache description, it's a no go since there isn't a question for the user to validate his visit to hte area.

38.2k · April 2, 2003

I have a virtual much like it that was recently approved. How do you plan verifying the finds? That's the only problem I see with your cache so far.

In the case of my cache, there is a memorial plaque at the viewing area and I ask for info from

it.

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

April 2, 2003

There are questions to answer for this virtual which can only be answered by being at the location of the virtual cache. I just didn't post them. The questions have to do with the sign describing the wildlife and the photographer who took some of the photos and the historical significance of the place.

1.2k · April 2, 2003

In that case I see nothing wrong with it.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

April 2, 2003

Sounds like a great virtual cache site. If the viewing location is always open and truly not subject to the road closures you mentioned, there should be no problem assuming any necessary permissions are obtained.

Too bad it's not closer to where I live, I'd like to check this one out.

Veni, Vidi, Cachi ...

1.4k · April 2, 2003

Maybe they are wondering if there really is no place for a micro. I've found some in some pretty public places. If ther is a metal trash can with short legs, there you go, etc....

---Real men cache in shorts.

April 2, 2003

Even with a micro I would be worried. This viewing area is manicured and landscaped within an inch of its life.

April 2, 2003

Maybe the cache doesn't have to be right at the viewing area? Could you place a micro in the parking lot or somewhere nearby? How about a magnetic micro on the underside of the sign or a trash barrel or along the trail or boardwalk to the area? Just a couple of suggestions.

It sounds like a good place for a cache, especially if it doesn't get visited often.

April 2, 2003

Thought of that also, but the parking area is at the viewing area. It's very small. The only signs are a wooden sign that lists the open areas and the list of closed areas and a sign that says to stay off the grass.

24.7k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Trekks:
Thought of that also, but the parking area is at the viewing area. It's very small. The only signs are a wooden sign that lists the open areas and the list of closed areas and a sign that says to stay off the grass.

Cache seem to meet the criteria. We just lost a wild life refuge to traditional caches, so even if I would of had a problem with your's before I don't now.

Wherever you go there you are.

April 2, 2003

quote:
The only signs are a wooden sign that lists the open areas and the list of closed areas and a sign that says to stay off the grass.

If there's grass, how about the old microcache in the fake sprinkler hide?

3.5k · April 2, 2003

Hi,

Here is the cache description:

quote:
This is a wildlife sanctuary and it is abundant. There is a resident bald eagle and you might get lucky enough to see it.

In order to get credit for finding this cache, you have to email me the answers to the following questions.

1. What is the subject of the middle sign?

2. Who took the photo on the middle sign with the green field background?

To quote from the virtual cache guidelines:

quote:
A trail is a trail, a beach is a beach, a view is a view; but a trail/beach/view is NOT a virtual cache.

http://www.geocaching.com/articles/requirements.asp

1.4k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Trekks:
Even with a micro I would be worried. This viewing area is manicured and landscaped within an inch of its life.

Try this: Place a micro. If it gets plundered very quickly, then you have a good arguement for making it a virtual.

April 2, 2003

Another way to do a multi would not require you to place anything at the site. By providing a key in your description page (or just a simple letter to number conversion 'a=1, b=2'), you could direct the finder to complete the coordinates for the second stage of the multi by gleaning the information from the signs that exist at the refuge viewing area. (ie: 'N35.27.---, the seconds being the first letter of the first three words on the middle sign, converted as shown below')

Just my $0.02

"Could be worse...could be raining"

April 2, 2003

9key,

Why do you have to be so rude all the time? I was emailed by someone who is an admin who requested that I post the information to the forums and ask the opinions of others. I was doing what I was asked to do. Your trail/beach/view comment makes no sense to me since I am not pointing people at a trail/beach/view but rather at a place where a bald eagle and a herd of elk hang out.

April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ErSamin:
Another way to do a multi would not require you to place anything at the site. By providing a key in your description page (or just a simple letter to number conversion 'a=1, b=2'), you could direct the finder to complete the coordinates for the second stage of the multi by gleaning the information from the signs that exist at the refuge viewing area. (ie: 'N35.27.---, the seconds being the first letter of the first three words on the middle sign, converted as shown below')

Just my $0.02

"Could be worse...could be raining"

Excellent suggestion, and that option is probably a likely reason the cache wasn't approved. Virtuals are so incredibly easy to create that many people have gone totally overboard, which naturally necessitates the admins needing be be extra picky with them. I've been to and found (and hidden) several caches that required gleening info from a sign to compute the coordinates for the real cache, and I think it's an excellent alternative to just creating yet another mindless virtual.

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

---------------------------------------

3.5k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Why do you have to be so rude all the time?

How was I rude?

I posted the cache as it was submitted, and I quoted the rule that I applied.

What does 'all he time' mean?

Have we met before?

Please keep in mind that I do not get paid and I am not an employee of geocaching.com or Groundspeak.

I am a geocacher just like you, and I would like to spend more time caching and less time in these forums getting beaten up in front of everyone.

If you have something to say to me personally, please email me directly.

Thank you

April 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by FullOn:
If there's grass, how about the old microcache in the fake sprinkler hide?

Hmm...

a. it violates 'thou shall not dig holes to place a cache'

b. if there's an irrigation system (which would be kind of odd for a nature preserve) the fake irrigation head would probably be discovered by the site sooner or later - especially when starting up the system. (if they're good about keeping up the system).

Is it possible to place small magnetic tags/etc on several trails? That way if one is closed, they can use another? Are there any boardwalks, bridges, or metal pipes/culverts the trails go over?

I think it would make a nice virtual, but if you can squeeze in a micro somehow, the better...

I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is

38.2k · April 3, 2003

I'm not one to get into admin bashing and I hope 9key doesn't take it that way, but I think Trekks virt is legit. It seems to be a place that would be of significant interest to some people and there is an actual object there (the viewing platform). I have a very similar one that was approved recently and one finder included it in a list of his all time favorite caches.

I think the beach/trail/view clause is meant to keep people from making virts out of every nice viewpoint they find.

This being said, several people here have given Trekk good advice about ways to make this work as a real cache.

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on April 03, 2003 at 04:15 AM.]

April 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Squirrel Nut:

quote:
Originally posted by FullOn:
If there's grass, how about the old microcache in the fake sprinkler hide?

Hmm...

a. it violates 'thou shall not dig holes to place a cache'

b. if there's an irrigation system (which would be kind of odd for a nature preserve) the fake irrigation head would probably be discovered by the site sooner or later - especially when starting up the system. (if they're good about keeping up the system).

Could you show us where it says to 'not dig holes'? Caches should not be buried (at least ones listed on this website), but I'm unaware of any rules preventing a cache from being set into the ground, with the top exposed. In fact, I've found several that fit that description.

And since you mention rules, you'll also remember the rule that you should get permission before hiding a cache, so the land managers will be aware of the fake sprinkler head and not disturb it.

Ron/yumitori

38.2k · April 3, 2003

quote:
Could you show us where it says to 'not dig holes'? Caches should not be buried (at least ones listed on this website), but I'm unaware of any rules preventing a cache from being set into the ground, with the top exposed. In fact, I've found several that fit that description....

I'm sure if you had to dig a hole to set it in the gound, it would be frowned upon. Not much differend from burying it.

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on April 04, 2003 at 04:11 AM.]

9.4k · April 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Trekks:
9key,

Why do you have to be so rude all the time? I was emailed by someone who is an admin who requested that I post the information to the forums and ask the opinions of others. I was doing what I was asked to do. Your trail/beach/view comment makes no sense to me since I am not pointing people at a trail/beach/view but rather at a place where a bald eagle and a herd of elk hang out.

Your cache is a view from a trail, just because it isn't on a beach doesn't mean that that rule doesn't apply. I've had 2 caches approved by 9key, he was never rude to me.

April 4, 2003

I know 9key and he is just strait to the point with no "BS" in between, he is one of those "honest till it hurts" kind of people. I think people take that as rude but I'm sure he doesn't mean it that way.

"Fun is Fun, Done is Done"-Stephen King

April 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

quote:
Could you show us where it says to 'not dig holes'? Caches should not be buried (at least ones listed on this website), but I'm unaware of any rules preventing a cache from being set into the ground, with the top exposed. In fact, I've found several that fit that description....

_I'm sure if you had to dig a hole to set it in the gound, it would be frowned upon. Not much differend from burying it. _

Again, frowned upon by who?

There is, for example, a local cache that is set into the ground with the container lid exposed. It is not buried; it's perfectly visible, if you know where to look. Further, it was placed with full permission from the local parks department.

So who is it that disapproves of setting a container into the ground, and why?

Ron/yumitori

9.4k · April 5, 2003

Who says don't bury it? Go to www.geocaching.com

The first paragraph under the Geocaching logo says:

quote:
New to Geocaching?
You can Read our Frequently Asked Questions page to learn about the sport, read the guide to finding your first cache, or if there are no caches near you, learn how to create the first cache in your area. There are also plenty of people to help answer your questions in the online forums.

Click the link to read:

quote:
Please do not bury the container unless you have express permission of the landowner or manager. If the cache is far enough away from trafficked areas, your cache should be fine. An exception would be covering the cache with dead branches, bark, etc. to conceal the container.

Also, check out the guidelines:

quote:
Caches will be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

Caches that are buried - If a shovel/trowel/pointy object is used to dig - in order to hide or find a cache - it's not appropriate.

April 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:
Who says don't bury it?

Sax, I think you missed the beginning of this discussion. I'm not talking about burying caches, but rather setting them into the earth so that only a portion is showing. The specific example was a cache hidden inside a fake sprinkler head. Other examples might include a container placed in a hole created or enlarged to hold the cache, then covered with bark, branches or other materials.

There is no digging 'in order to hide a cache', only to make the camouflage work properly, and digging is entirely unnecessary in order to find the cache.

Ron/yumitori

9.4k · April 5, 2003

Since you have express permission of the land manager, I see no problem with it. I was just answering your question 'So who is it that disapproves of setting a container into the ground, and why?'

I have found a similar cache and loved the idea. The intent of the 'no buried caches' rule is so we don't have people digging up a 30 foot circle around every geocache trying to find it when it is really hidden 5 feet up a tree.

Should this be a cache?

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