How would you log.....find or no find?

November 18, 2002

Here's the situation......this morning, we went to this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=42768

It was a 3.3 mile hike and took 1 1/2 hours. We looked everywhere!! The GPSr took us to within one foot of where we believe the cache was......we did it over and over again, and 10 times it took us to this same spot. We decrypted the hint, and was exactly where we had been looking. Perfect spot for this particular cache, but it wasnt there. We are the 3rd group of cachers to go to this, and all have been no-finds. Here's the question........because we invested such a big hike and time, we feel like we should be able to log this as a find, since we beleive this is where the cache should have been. It appears the ranger ricks here are thinning out many trees, and think it's possible they found the cache and removed it. We took pictures of where we believe it was.......should we log this as a no-find even though we're convinced we would have found it......thus getting a big frowny face on our cache list, or can we log this as a find, noting that it's now a virtual cache since there is no cache......post the 2 pictures that we took as spoilers in case they're right......then if we hear from the owner that we were incorrect, we delete our found log........ I'm sure ya'll have opinions......let me have it!

Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners.

38.2k · November 18, 2002

You went to look for a cache. You didn't find it. It's a not found, plain and simple. The reason you didn't find it doesn't matter. Why would you want to log it as found if you didn't find it? Just curious.

quote:
...thus getting a big frowny face on our cache list

What's the big deal about a "frowny face" on your cache list? It's not like its something to be be ashamed of.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs, but by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" -Max Beerbohm

November 18, 2002

I vote "No Find" but who am I to judge? :-)

Sounds like a lost cache, but that doesn't make it a virtual. When did the owner last do maintenance?

November 18, 2002

I would say no find. You went to the cache site, and couldn't find it. What is the big deal with having a "frowny face" anyway? If you couldn't find it, you couldn't find it--

Also, Logging a "no find" may prompt the owner to take a trip out and see if it is gone or not.

November 18, 2002

You're only cheating yourselves if you log this as a find. I guess I don't really understand why you feel you deserve a find. I mean, its admirable that you search for so long, and I'm sure no one is questioning that you were at the right coordinates... but you didn't find the cache. Plain and simple.

If a cache is stolen, no one else gets a find, because the cache is gone. Why would you get a find because you might not have found the cache?

It's not for us to judge your finds and no finds, this is just my two cents. I don't log a find unless I complete the purpose of the cache.

Pan

Cachito ergo sum.

I Geocache, therefore I am.

Pan

2.5k · November 18, 2002

No find. It looks like it was just placed. Go back and try again, it's probably just a good hide.

OR..COULD IT BE? Is it possible we have our first missing members only cache? I thought everyone said that was impossible!

November 18, 2002

NO FIND

www.ManuelCasillas.com

1.8k · November 18, 2002

Ooh! I get to Markwell my first thread!

This has been discussed here. It was a cache that had been missing for quite some time, but people kept logging it as a find.

- - - - -

Wisconsin Geocaching Association

November 18, 2002

At the risk of "piling on", if you didn't find the cache, you did not find the cache. Finding where it ought to be, or where you think it should be, or where the hider may have put it originally is not the same thing as finding the actual cache.

If you absolutely cannot abide having a "not found" on your list, don't log it at all. Pretend you did something else during those hours....tell everyone that you watched "My Mother the Car" reruns or waxed some fruit or maybe just took a regular ol' hike in the woods.

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

November 18, 2002

Not found is not found.

Don't focus too much on the number of caches you logged as a find. Who cares? Think that you had a great time sharing this hike with family and friends. This IS unvaluable!

Just my two cents

Legendeo is still in Beta!

38.2k · November 18, 2002

quote:
If you absolutely cannot abide having a "not found" on your list, don't log it at all.

That's not really the answer. Logging the not found lets the cache owner and other potential seekers know that there may be a problem with the cache.

Personally I don't see the problem with having not founds on one's list. Heck, I have 23 of them. Five are for a cache that I've yet to find in 5 visits. Six are for caches that were missing. For several of the six, I knew I had the spot, in fact for one I saw the imprint of the container in the grass and found some items on the ground that probably were among the contents). Most of the rest are for caches that I found during a subsequent visit.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs, but by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" -Max Beerbohm

2.6k · November 18, 2002

So what. You could make it a note since you think it maybe gone but if it someone found it soon after I'd change it to a dnf.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

3k · November 18, 2002

What's the difference if you get a frowny face, or a note pad for that matter? I'm really excited about the number of places I've been to, and the "frowny face/notepad icons serve to remind me of the few that I have to go back to to find the cache, or the ones I'd really like to see if I'm in that part of the country. Who's counting anyway? (I know, Dan is)

Cache you later,

Planet

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

9.1k · November 18, 2002

Log a not found, since you did not find the cache. But do not post your possible spoiler pictures to the cache page. Instead, e-mail the owner privately (he provides a real e-mail address in his profile) and attach your photos. Ask if that is the right place to look and, if so, state that you don't think there's a cache container there.

Someone once sent me a photo of a location in the woods where they were SURE that the last stage of my multicache had to be hiding. They searched and searched but did not find a cache container. They had spent more than two hours hunting this multicache. I wrote back and said that the cache was IN the picture (not necessarily visible). I also verified that the container was still in its hiding place by making a maintenance visit. They properly logged a not-found log and complimented me on the hiding job. They know where to look when they make a return visit!

Of course, the cache could indeed be missing... wait to see what the owner says. The point is to never make an assumption in order to leap from a not-found to a find.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitos?

November 18, 2002

We all have similar experiences. Some of us have invested days, making multiple trips to a cache site without success. If you did not sign the logbook, it is a NF. Virtuals are different. If this was a virtual, and you have satisfied the qualifiers, then you can post a find without signing a log.

If you didn't find it, it is a not found. EOS

Zeolites unite!

1.6k · November 18, 2002

A few of my hides I find a gee-whiz obvious hiding spot and then hide somewhere else close. Nothing too hard yet, but tricky.

(I borrowed that idea from someone else on this board.)

CR

38.2k · November 18, 2002

I have to wonder if this is really missing anyway. It's a MOC and only been out there a few days.

I have a cache where a Geocacher sent me an e-mail saying he was positive it was missing (I found it odd that he e-mailed me instead of posting a not found). He even sent me a photo of the log he thought the cache was hidden in and an empty, small, white, plastic container next to it (my cache was in a small, white, plastic container).

From the looks of the photo, I agreed that it was likely that the cache was gone and the bottom of the container was all that remained. I went to check on it and found the cache safely in its hiding spot. I also found the log and plastic container in the guy's photo about 50 feet away from my cache.

And a couple of weeks later, I get another e-mail about the same cache, from another Geocacher. He too was certain the cache was missing, because he spent over an hour looking for it. I took another trip out there and again found the cache safe and sound.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs, but by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" -Max Beerbohm

November 18, 2002

It happens and it stinks, but it's not a find unless you find the actual cache. At least in my opinion.

Doug

6.5k · November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo-Johnson's:
Here's the situation......this morning, we went to this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=42768

It was a 3.3 mile hike and took 1 1/2 hours. ... but it wasnt there. ...because we invested such a big hike and time, we feel like we should be able to log this as a find...

your link's useless to me , but assuming the cache is a tranditional i would disagree about logging it as a find. You didnt sign the log book (assuming there is one), so you shouldnt log it as a find. Id "not found" it, and since you say there is already a few not founds, maybe you should send a private message to the cache owner suggesting they check on the cache.

November 18, 2002

We posted as a no-find. No need for angry faces folks........it was a simple question from a newbie. At ease......... Thanks for everyone's input.

Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners.

1.4k · November 18, 2002

...and email the owner that they might want to double-check the coordinates.

9.1k · November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo-Johnson's:
We posted as a no-find. No need for angry faces folks........it was a simple question from a newbie. At ease......... Thanks for everyone's input.

Thanks very much for listening to the advice. I wish everyone who asked for the community's opinion could be as gracious when the weight of the vote goes against them. Now, GOOD LUCK finding that cache! GO GET IT!

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitos?

November 19, 2002

I logged this one as found based on the fact that the log book was found even if the stash itself does not exist anymore (keeps me wondering why this is not archived yet). Correct or not?

November 19, 2002

Just to follow up, I sent pictures to the owner and heard back this morning that it appears the cache is missing.......... bummer! Will be standing by for hopefully a re-hide. Thanks again!

Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners.

38.2k · November 19, 2002

quote:
I logged this one as found based on the fact that the log book was found even if the stash itself does not exist anymore (keeps me wondering why this is not archived yet). Correct or not?

This is sort of a grey area, but most people will say that if you signed the log book, you get to post a find.

You're right, it should be archived. To have it done, click on the "log your visit" button, then choose "cache should be archived". The admins will then take a look at it and archive it if they feel it needs to be. The cache owner will also receive a notice.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs, but by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" -Max Beerbohm

9.2k · November 19, 2002

No find, of course. There are good reasons to do this, other than just personal integrity. The images are an indicator that there may be a problem with a cache. Potential cache hunters may not want to read the details in the cache logs, not wanting to come across any information that might spoil the hunt, but they can take a look at the found/not-found indicators, and the dates, to determine if there have been any recent problems with the cache. Posting a when there may in fact be a problem with the cache does a disservice to others.

November 21, 2002

Well I did e-mail the owner of the cache asking if he wants the logbook back, also thought that he wants to renew/archive this cache but nothing has yet happened by him.

Now another cacher made a quest in vain. The 'archive'-log would have served the other ones instead of being selfish and logging this one found.

Does it make any sense if the archive suggestion was not an alternative to found / not found but an additional feature? I mean there can be other cases where the finder wants to log a cache as or AND suggest archiving on some reason

November 21, 2002

If I find the obvious spot, and the cache just isn't there, I post a note. I then add it to my watch list, and if someone else finds it, I'll go back and change it to a not found. I also e-mail the cache owner. I've done this twice, and haven't had to edit either post yet. One of the caches has even been deactivated, after another hunter had the same experienced and came to the same conclusion. My thought is that you can't find something that isn't there.

If, however, I don't find the obvious cache location, I go ahead and post a not found.

Lovecacher

9.1k · November 21, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Erwast:
Well I did e-mail the owner of the cache asking if he wants the logbook back, also thought that he wants to renew/archive this cache but nothing has yet happened by him.

Now another cacher made a quest in vain. The 'archive'-log would have served the other ones instead of being selfish and logging this one found.

Does it make any sense if the archive suggestion was not an alternative to found / not found but an additional feature? I mean there can be other cases where the finder wants to log a cache as or AND suggest archiving on some reason

Just enter two logs, the first for your find (because you DID sign the logbook) and the second with an archive request, setting forth the reasons and the unsuccessful attempts to contact the owner.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitos?

November 24, 2002

quote:
Just enter two logs, the first for your find (because you DID sign the logbook) and the second with an archive request

Did this and the cache has now been archived.

How would you log.....find or no find?

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