A request to cache hiders: please be more specific on cache pages

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by: BassoonPilot

So naturally you blame the cache owner for your foolhardiness.

So now, people who enjoy snow/night caching only demonstrate their foolhardiness?

quote:
Originally posted by: Mopar

Sounds like the kinda guy who would log finds on his own caches too.

You're both very quick to pass judgement and you're both insulting. It's too bad because with your respective experience of the game, you should be able to provide constructive input.

Instead, you resorted to just about anything to put the last word in, turning a polite request into a 'blame' of cache owners. And when I read over your posts in this thread, the word 'obtuse' comes to mind.

3k · February 13, 2003

quote:
So now, people who enjoy snow/night caching only demonstrate their foolhardiness?

No, but your activities as detailed by Brogan certainly do.

Actually, I asked very simple questions: Are you fellows local cachers, and were you aware of the general conditions in the area?

Your failure to answer those two most basic questions said all I needed to know to determine the accuracy of my statement you chose to quote. Is that what you refer to as being "obtuse?"

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on February 13, 2003 at 07:36 AM.]

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:
Bigsnip...

And when I read over your posts in this thread, the word 'obtuse' comes to mind.

I had a girlfried once who could be obtuse - uhhhhmmmmm, like a pretzel in the deep mustard....

--majicman

My new book available now!: (http://www.mcwj.com )

1.7k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:

quote:
Originally posted by: BassoonPilot

So naturally you blame the cache owner for your foolhardiness.

So now, people who enjoy snow/night caching only demonstrate their foolhardiness?

If they're doing it without any kind of preparation, yeah. What do you call that kind of stupidity? "Extreme Geocaching"?

I've done a few cache hunts in the snow, and I sure didn't need the cache owner to tell me there might be snow on the ground. When you need someone else to tell you something that you can tell for yourself by looking out the window, maybe it's time to get another hobby.

I've also done a few hunts in the dark. I'm the one who's going to a strange place at a strange time, so it's my job to find out whether that's okay.

Other things the cache hider should have to tell me:

whether my dog is allowed in the area

whether I can ride a snowmobile or ATV on the trails

whether the climb to the cache location is too steep or technical for me

whether the water is too cold to wade in today

whether the ice is too thin to walk on

whether the hollow tree is safe to stick my hand in

whether that hairy vine alongside the trail is poison ivy

whether there's anyone watching when I open the cache container

whether the hike is too strenuous for me

whether I'll like the stuff in the cache

whether that spider on top of the cache box is poisonous

whether my car will be safe in the parking lot

whether I should watch for roots or branches across the trail

whether they'll be opening the floodgates while I'm there

I'm sure there are others, but I just haven't thought of them yet. So make sure every one of your caches tells me at least these few basic things, and don't forget to add all of the ones I forgot to mention.

February 13, 2003

quote:
Actually, I asked a very simple question: Are you fellows local cachers, and were you aware of the general conditions in the area?

That's 2 questions.

1. We're relatively local (less than 50 miles).

2. No, we were not aware of the conditions otherwise we would not have gone there at all.

quote:
Your failure to answer those two most basic questions said all I needed to know to determine the accuracy of my statement you chose to quote.

Here you go again.

3k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:

Here you go again.

I really do want to understand you ... precisely how far down how many "one lane roads that haven't seen a snowplow in 24 hours" would you need to traverse, and how many state troopers, who were apparently investigating reports of your unusual (for the area you were in, at the time you were there) activities, would you need to send into ditches prior to deciding not to continue under the current conditions?

Did I say "foolhardy?" I was probably being too polite.

Oh bother; there I go again.

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by: Mopar

Sounds like the kinda guy who would log finds on his own caches too.

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:
You're both very quick to pass judgement and you're both insulting. It's too bad because with your respective experience of the game, you should be able to provide constructive input.

Instead, you resorted to just about anything to put the last word in, turning a polite request into a 'blame' of cache owners. And when I read over your posts in this thread, the word 'obtuse' comes to mind.

I would say thats only an insult if it isn't true. Otherwise, it's just a fact.

Now, you got dozens of posts offering constructive input, from guys that only only dream of being in the same league as some day. Guys like Rich, George, Stayfloopy and BP are at the head of the class, in my book. What kinds of response did the constuctive input get?

quote:
Originally posted by Cachetrotters:
Rich, take a high-colonic and relax...

quote:
Originally posted by Cachetrotters:
Guess you guys should have started right off with Geocaching in Latin. Then you, like physicians, would have been able to keep the riff-raff out, and your sacred game would not be diluted with the unwashed masses.

Some of this elitist rhetoric stuff is sickening....

don

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:
Wow! Cool your jets a second. Who said anything about turning every cache into a 1/1? Certainly not me! Maybe twisting things around is your thing but it's not mine.

Try nuances.

quote:
Originally posted by Brogan:
Here you are decked out in cold weather gear, snowshoes, geoswag, GPSr's fired an ready to roll, caching partner getting itchy and you can't park the car, because someone didn't type that extra line about winter conditions!

and back to:

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:

You're both very quick to pass judgement and you're both insulting. It's too bad because with your respective experience of the game, you should be able to provide constructive input.

Instead, you resorted to just about anything to put the last word in, turning a polite request into a 'blame' of cache owners. And when I read over your posts in this thread, the word 'obtuse' comes to mind.

Any wonder why people are starting to get defensive? People gave you the contructive input you asked for in the initial post, and got insulted because it wasn't the input you were hoping to get.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

Mopar,

You are so tenacious and thorough - will you be my hero?

--majicman

My new book available now!: (http://www.mcwj.com )

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Brogan:
not to mention you are still in the patrol area of that State Trooper that put his car in the ditch looking for you on a "suspicious activity" report 20 mins ago!

If professionally trained drivers are going into ditches, maybe that thing called common sense should be kicking in and finding a parking spot for the cache shouldn't be your primary concern.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by majicman:
Mopar,

You are so tenacious and thorough - will you be my hero?

--majicman

My new book available now!: (http://www.mcwj.com )

Come home! All is forgiven!

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

Can brother Chob come home too? I have not seen him in a fortnight...

--majicman

My new book available now!: (http://www.mcwj.com )

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by majicman:
Can brother Chob come home too? I have not seen him in a fortnight...

You and Chobe are always welcome at #home.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

quote:
I really do want to understand you ...

The feeling is mutual

quote:
precisely how far down how many "one lane roads that haven't seen a snowplow in 24 hours" would you need to traverse, and how many state troopers, who were apparently investigating reports of your unusual (for the area you were in, at the time you were there) activities, would you need to send into ditches prior to deciding not to continue under the current conditions?

About the cop thing:

We went hiking on a public trail used by cross-country skiers and snowmobiles, looking for a good (and legal) spot to place a night-only cache.

The weather conditions were just fine: very little wind, no falling snow and not too cold either. Even had a bit of moonlight.

The trail head was at the end of a private road (we were not parked there, just walked to the trail head). One of the people living off of that road called the cops because he felt we should not have been there (even though we actually spoke to that same guy earlier). The cop got himself into the ditch driving up the guy's driveway. We spoke with the cop, explaining what GeoCaching was about and we were on our way w/o any trouble.

Turns out we did not place the cache because the woodlands were all posted.

About the rest:

From there, we decided to go for a cache nearby. The road leading to it was not freshly plowed, but nothing unusual around these parts. After all, this is back country and even suburban areas often look the same way around here.

It's only when we reached the parking coordinates provided on the cache page that we realized that the cache was inaccessible and would likely be so until spring.

That was all for that night of 'wild-foolhardy-extreme-geocaching'

I've hit a few other caches in that same area and some owners -do- disable their caches when the conditions become impossible, others -do- indicate whether they are winter-accessible, yet others go as far as making winter versions of theirs. Some others couldn't care less, hence my request. To me, this courtesy extended to other cachers is akin to 'seasonal' cache maintenance.

February 13, 2003

Geo,

Would you quit trying to drag this thread back on topic! (Jeesh!)

What do you think I drug it off for, just so you could make a vain attempt to drag it back?

Watch it or I'll ask about geocaching with guns, or mention the infamous name "Mit--ko" or something really drastic!

--majicman

My new book available now!: (http://www.mcwj.com )

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:
About the rest:

From there, we decided to go for a http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=4549 nearby. The road leading to it was not freshly plowed, but nothing unusual around these parts. After all, this is back country and even suburban areas often look the same way around here.

It's only when we reached the parking coordinates provided on the cache page that we realized that the cache was inaccessible and would likely be so until spring.

That was all for that night of 'wild-foolhardy-extreme-geocaching'

I've hit a few other caches in that same area and some owners -do- disable their caches when the conditions become impossible, others -do- indicate whether they are winter-accessible, yet others go as far as making winter versions of theirs. Some others couldn't care less, hence my request. To me, this courtesy extended to other cachers is akin to 'seasonal' cache maintenance.

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/82972_1100.jpg

Well, thanks for FINALLY filling in the details!

Since you mention the specific cache you had a "problem" with, lets look closer before you say someone couldn't care less.

First, it's a 2/2.5 cache, so it seems to me the hider doesnt want it to be too easy to get to. Like I said, not everyone who looks for caches wants the cache to be "dumbed down". Sounds like a cache I myself would be interested in. HOWEVER... It hasn't been logged in over 4 months. That would be a clue to me that this cache might not be the best to do at night, in the snow. I might still try, but I surely wouldnt get upset because the hider didn't update the page with how much snow might be in the parking lot. Now, about the hider. He hasn't even logged into the website since 9/21/02. Since he has 141 finds this is sorta unusual. Does anyone know "Tissue"? Is it possible there is a reason for his abrupt end to geocaching? And that leads us to the other thing. It seems like the cache owner lives in Utah, across the country from the cache (hiding caches you can't maintain is a whole different thread currently running elsewhere). How can you expect him to know the status of a parking lot 2,500 miles away? Or even if there is snow? Maybe you should cut this particular guy some slack until you know the details.

I still say given the conditions you knew you were caching under, to complain about this cache or any other is pretty close to whining. The hider has no obligation to make the cache snow friendly, even if he lived 250ft away.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

Is that the purpose of caches? I was under the impression the idea was for the cache owner to provide us an adventure and an _opportunity_ to find a cache.

From the logs I've read, even 1/1 caches sometimes skunk very experienced cachers ... there is _no_ iron-clad guarantee.

Boy, I'm reading this thread, and I have to say I don't track much of what's being written.

But this - this hits the nail directly on the head.

There's no guarantee that you'll find a cache. That's good, because if you knew that you'd always be successful, it wouldn't stay very fun for very long.

6.4k · February 13, 2003

Hey Geo, do you remember this thread? This cache is dangerous and illegal

Some guy hid a cache that wasn't "dumbed down". It sounds like it was a good cache, a clever cache, that presented a challenge to access it. The same people that you think are criticizing and insulting you now, jumped to defend that guy and his choice of hiding location and cache page layout back then. Remember that, Geo?

It goes both ways, hiding and finding, whichever side of the fence you're on, the rules haven't changed.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

quote:
one last thing

Hey Geo, do you remember this thread? This cache is dangerous and illegal

How could I forget it? That was such a pleasant introduction to the forums

quote:
Some guy hid a cache that wasn't "dumbed down". It sounds like it was a good cache, a clever cache, that presented a challenge to access it.

Yup, and it still is.

quote:
The same people that you think are criticizing and insulting you now, jumped to defend that guy and his choice of hiding location and cache page layout back then. Remember that, Geo?

I sure do remember that Mopar and I also recall that your comments were never insulting. Maybe you can explain where this came from then?

quote:
Originally posted by: Mopar

Sounds like the kinda guy who would log finds on his own caches too.

I also remember that that thread started out for 2 reasons: the fact that I had -no- finds when I placed it and that the placement of the cache was *assumed* to be illegal by some folks, because w/o any finds of course, I could not possibly know what I was doing

Here, I made a request to cache owners for some info that I believe can be pertinent. You don't have to do anything about it if you don't like it. I won't feel offended. And I certainly don't expect any guaranteed satisfaction from any cache.

quote:
It goes both ways, hiding and finding, whichever side of the fence you're on, the rules haven't changed.

Agreed.

20.7k · February 13, 2003

This is the funniest thread. I read all the way through it, but had to start over because I forgot what it was about and forgot what my stated position was. For such a vanilla issue, people are really getting bent.

There appears to be two issues being discussed. One is whether weather related issues should be noted on the description or if the ratings should be adjusted with weather changes. In my opinion, this is not necessary. Any cacher in the area would know that its harder to find the box in the snow, rain, or dark.

The second is whether park hours and the like should be mentioned in the description. In my opinion, they should. I did so in this cache. (I rather doubt that you would have come up with these hours in your internet search.)

This is my opinion. Some will disagree. Whatever. I don't like to get to a location and find out that I can't hunt the cache because the location is closed. I don't think that this is part of the fun.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

February 13, 2003

I feel that providing additional information about a cache on the information page is a *courtesy* to finders. It is not *required* that the hider give any information. If you want more information than the hider places online, why not e-mail that person???

On the subject of "dumbing down", I agree with Rich. It's great that geocaching has grown since I started. I would never discourage newbies in any way. On the other hand, cache quality and difficulty has been decreasing, as quantity increases. We, as "veteran cachers" can encourage quality placemants of caches.

Let's respect the fact that there are some hiders who would rather leave the responsibility of finding the cache to the finder, rather than giving too much away in the cache description. If you (the reader) wish to be *nearly* guaranteed a find, then confine yourself to caches in which detailed information is given in the description. There are plenty of those around for you.

February 13, 2003

I recently drove 20 miles or so to find a cache in my area. When I arrived I discovered that the snow banks on either side of the road were a good 8-10' high and the road very narrow. It was possible to stop there, but that would pose a hazard for other cars using the road. The only other parking area nearby was on private property. Was it the responsibility of the cache hider to warn me that snowfall might make the find more difficult? I knew when I left the house that caching in two feet of snow posed a new set of obstacles, both in driving and parking my car and in having to root around in snow pack to find a Tupperware box. Wanting to know park policies and closing hours is one thing. Wanting to be told that snow might make travel, hiking and finding more difficult is just silly.

---------------

Where am I going? I don't quite know.

What does it matter where people go?

Down to the wood where the blue-bells grow-

Anywhere, anywhere. I don't know.

-A.A. Milne

20.7k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by OUTSID4EVR:...Let's respect the fact that there are some hiders who would rather leave the responsibility of finding the cache to the finder, rather than giving too much away in the cache description. If you (the reader) wish to be *nearly* guaranteed a find, then confine yourself to caches in which detailed information is given in the description. There are plenty of those around for you.

As I read it, this thread is not about dumbing down' caches or guaranteeing a find. The thread, in my opinion, is merely about sharing information that is not related to the actual search for the cache. Sharing park hours does not make the cache easier to find, just less annoying.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:
The second is whether park hours and the like should be mentioned in the description. In my opinion, they should. I did so in http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=32726. (I rather doubt that you would have come up with these hours in your internet search.)

(615) 862-8400, Centennial Park Office, Nashville, TN 37201.

http://nashville.gov/parks/index.htm

(615) 862-8431 The Parthenon @ Centennial Park · info@parthenon.org

http://www.nashville.gov/parthenon/FAQ.htm

wayne.winters@nashville.gov Safety & Security Coordinator - Park Rangers

I'm sure that would get me started.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against including that sort of info on your cache if you desire. I am against DEMANDING or FORCING everyone to include info like that on EVERY cache. I already mentioned I've included that info on my easy caches. In this particular cache that started the topic, it's on private property with permission, so I would assume its available 24/7.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

20.7k · February 13, 2003

Ummm, my cache isn't hidden at the Parthenon (either one), but good guess.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:
Ummm, my cache isn't hidden at the Parthenon (either one), but good guess.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

No, but its listen in Centennial Park. If I was traveling a great distance to do your cache and I was considering doing it at night, I could either call the park for hrs, or email the head park ranger for the info. Or, more then likely, if I got there and it was closed, I would just move onto the next cache on the list.

I recently emailed another cacher who has a very interesting virtual cache almost 100 miles away from me. You can access the location anytime, but they only offer tours of the inside a few specific days a month. The verification the hider requests to prove your find is to email him what days it's open for tours. Now, first, that info was reasonably easy to find online, and second, if he included that info on the cache page I think many people would opt to visit this virtual location when it would be possible to see more then a locked structure.

Did he change the cache? No. Did I argue the point with him? No, it's his cache, his choice. Will I still do the cache? Yes. Will I use the info I found online to visit it on one of those few days it's open? You bet. That's MY choice.

Once more, I'm not arguing against placing this info on the cache page, especially with sinple urban park park caches. I don't want to be TOLD to include it on every cache. What if your cache above was a really hard puzzle cache? I'm sure to a local those specific hrs you posted would be a dead give away to the general area of the cache. If you don't include the info on your cache page, its up to me to decide if i want to chance it. Nobody is forcing me to geocache (except the voices in my head!) and nobody is promising me I will be able to find the cache when I get there.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

To request:

Function: transitive verb

Date: 1533

1 : to make a request to or of

2 : to ask as a favor or privilege

3 obsolete : to ask (a person) to come or go to a thing or place

4 : to ask for

To demand:

Function: verb

Etymology: Middle English demaunden, from Old French demander, from Medieval Latin demandare, from Latin, to entrust, charge, from de- + mandare to enjoin -- more at MANDATE

Date: 14th century

intransitive senses : to make a demand : ASK

transitive senses

1 : to ask or call for with authority : claim as due or just

2 : to call for urgently, peremptorily, or insistently

3 a : to ask authoritatively or earnestly to be informed of b : to require to come : SUMMON

4 : to call for as useful or necessary

- de·mand·able /-'man-d&-b&l/ adjective

- de·mand·er noun

synonyms DEMAND, CLAIM, REQUIRE, EXACT mean to ask or call for something as due or as necessary. DEMAND implies peremptoriness and insistence and often the right to make requests that are to be regarded as commands . CLAIM implies a demand for the delivery or concession of something due as one's own or one's right . REQUIRE suggests the imperativeness that arises from inner necessity, compulsion of law or regulation, or the exigencies of the situation . EXACT implies not only demanding but getting what one demands .

What was the subject of the topic again?

February 13, 2003

I agre with Rich. Just give me the coords and Iam out the door. I leave with more then one cache so if I cant get to/find one I have others to go get. If its a spur of the moment thing then the rules chanhe and I make every effort to locate my quarry. Now if the first attempt is unsuccessfull then I'll pull out the cache page and do some home work. as far as I was concerned when I started caching it was "Heres the coords go find".

"My gps say's it RIGHT HERE".

http://www.w6hy.org

KF6VFH

TOYOTA To Often Yuppies Overprice This Auto

February 13, 2003

quote:
Posted by sbell111:
Sharing park hours does not make the cache easier to find, just less annoying.

I agree. I would consider posting park hours if they are not "dawn to dusk" as most parks I have encountered in my region are. As a finder, I would not search for a cache after dark unless I was 100% sure, before leaving home, that the park was legally open at night. That's my responsibility as a finder.

GEO:

The topic was "A request to cache hiders..." It just seems that the request, as it was presented in the first post was more of a rant/complaint to hiders that choose not to include information on the cache page.

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:

I sure do remember that Mopar and I also recall that your comments were never insulting. Maybe you can explain where this came from then?

Again, I say that is only insulting if it isn't true. It may be a cheap shot, it most certainly was off topic, but it most certainly is a fact.

quote:
Here, I made a request to cache owners for some info that I believe can be pertinent. You don't have to do anything about it if you don't like it. I won't feel offended. And I certainly don't expect any guaranteed satisfaction from any cache.

So anyone who doesn't agree with you should just say/do nothing???

Yes I agree with you that some info it might be nice info to have, but I consider my brain to be the most important thing to take with me to find a cache. Any info not included on the cache page is just another part of the challenge of finding the cache. I'm not asking you to agree with that, but I'm not asking you not to voice your opinion because you don't agree with mine.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

9.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by OUTSID4EVR:
I feel that providing additional information about a cache on the information page is a *courtesy* to finders. It is not *required* that the hider give any information. If you want more information than the hider places online, why not e-mail that person???

Why not just post coordinates with no description then?

I think the hider has an obligation to inform seekers of a few things. Is there an entrance fee required for the area? Does the park close at night? Is it on private property? These are the basics and don't reveal anything about a cache's actual hiding spot or difficulty rating.

A beach cache that is rated a 2 that turns into a 5 during high tide should require this information from the hider.

A mountain cache that is a 2 in the summer but a 5 when it snows is common sense and should not be required on the cache page.

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

I think the hider has an obligation to inform seekers of a few things. Is there an entrance fee required for the area? Does the park close at night? Is it on private property? These are the basics and don't reveal anything about a cache's actual hiding spot or difficulty rating.

I agree with you here, except for the use of the word "obligation". The burden falls on the seeker of the cache. They can always contact the hider and ask questions.

quote:
A beach cache that is rated a 2 that turns into a 5 during high tide should require this information from the hider.

Explicitly stating that TIDES affect the difficulty of a cache on a BEACH might be giving away too much information on the cache page. This is different from stating the park hours. It's up to the hider to determine this.

quote:
A mountain cache that is a 2 in the summer but a 5 when it snows is common sense and should not be required on the cache page.

Why is this example common sense while the previous example is not?

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

Again, I say that is only insulting if it isn't true. It may be a cheap shot, it most certainly was off topic, but it most certainly is a fact.

I checked the logs and you're right that's a fact. However, knowing Brogan personally, I don't believe that this was intentional.

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

I'm not asking you to agree with that, but I'm not asking you not to voice your opinion because you don't agree with mine.

Hue? Where and when have I asked you not to express your opinion?

20.7k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:...
Once more, I'm not arguing against placing this info on the cache page, especially with sinple urban park park caches. I don't want to be TOLD to include it on every cache. What if your cache above was a really hard puzzle cache? I'm sure to a local those specific hrs you posted would be a dead give away to the general area of the cache. If you don't include the info on your cache page, its up to me to decide if i want to chance it. Nobody is forcing me to geocache (except the voices in my head!) and nobody is promising me I will be able to find the cache when I get there.

As it turns out, we are in total agreement. I guess I'll stop arguing with you then.

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:
I checked the logs and you're right that's a fact. However, knowing Brogan personally, I don't believe that this was intentional.

Since I don't, I guess I'll have to take your word on that.

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:
Hue? Where and when have I asked you not to express your opinion?

Well, thats how I read this:

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:
Here, I made a request to cache owners for some info that I believe can be pertinent. You don't have to do anything about it if you don't like it.

I take that to mean if I don't like your request, instead of saying something, I should just do nothing.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:
As it turns out, we are in total agreement. I guess I'll stop arguing with you then.

I think most of the time we are, it's just we both enjoy a good debate too much to stop!

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by: Mopar

Well, thats how I read this:

quote:

Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:

Here, I made a request to cache owners for some info that I believe can be pertinent. You don't have to do anything about it if you don't like it.

I take that to mean if I don't like your request, instead of saying something, I should just do nothing.

Ok. You misread this statement.

What I meant was: if as a cache owner you disagree with a request for more info about your caches, then you certainly don't have to change/do a thing to the cache description.

February 13, 2003

Do you guys carry weapons when you cache?

Who has talked to Mitsuko lately?

Which is better, plastic or metal?

What is your opinion of McToys?

Which GPS is the bestest?

(There , that ought to DESTROY this thread quickly! Watch out for smoke, Criminal...)

--majicman

My new book available now!: (http://www.mcwj.com )

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:
Ok. You misread this statement.

What I meant was: if as a cache owner you disagree with a request for more info about your caches, then you certainly don't have to change/do a thing to the cache description.

Ok, sorry. Speaking of, has there been any word on the cache that started all this? Like I said, it's sorta unusual that the hider to just stopped caching after 140+ finds......

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

Brogan,

You guys must have definately been in Chautauqua, Cattaraugus or western Wyoming county?

quote:
Is there anything more fustrating than to get to a cache site after driving all over God's country in the middle of the night on one lane back country roads that haven't seen a snowplow in 24hrs, only to find that the only access area is on private property (with permission) but that the parking spot is currently under a 10 ft snowdrift, and if you park in the road no one will be able to get around you? (not to mention you are still in the patrol area of that State Trooper that put his car in the ditch looking for you on a "suspicious activity" report 20 mins ago! Here you are decked out in cold weather gear, snowshoes, geoswag, GPSr's fired an ready to roll, caching partner getting itchy and you can't park the car, because someone didn't type that extra line about winter conditions!

Thats why ya need a real 4x4 with 35" offroad tires and lockers front and rear....

15+" of ground clearance doesnt hurt either...

Seriously, the seasonal roads in western NY are NO JOKE during a snowy winter....

Art

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

[This message was edited by Cracker7M on February 13, 2003 at 05:41 PM.]

February 13, 2003

I am just amazed by the amount of posts this has generated in the last few hours and and just plain pettiness of some of it...

BTW Mopar I don't believe I "blamed" the cache owner for anything and if it appeared that why I most humbly apoligize for it. I am pretty sure I said, "isn't it fustrating" My entire post was nothing more than a tangent of the weather/season icon thread, merely a request for some type of a seasonal key.

Not really sure where your from and frankly I don't think it matters but where we are is just south of Buffalo near Lake Erie, here a distance of fifty miles can make a huge change in weather not only day to day but throughout the entire winter, lake effect snows are notoriously fickle and unpredictable. (again this isn't the cache hiders fault either).

One line of type on the cache page certainly doesn't "dumb it down" and may be just enough to clue non-area cachers in on local conditions.

9.1k · February 13, 2003

So, Mopar... have you sent Brogan your entry in the Cannonball Run travel bug race yet? Maybe a hearse would be apropos.

Brogan... sometimes bugs get lost in the mail. Doesn't that suck?

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return?

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Brogan:
Is there anything more fustrating than to get to a cache site after driving all over God's country in the middle of the night on one lane back country roads that haven't seen a snowplow in 24hrs, only to find that the only access area is on private property (with permission) but that the parking spot is currently under a 10 ft snowdrift, and if you park in the road no one will be able to get around you? (not to mention you are still in the patrol area of that State Trooper that put his car in the ditch looking for you on a "suspicious activity" report 20 mins ago! Here you are decked out in cold weather gear, snowshoes, geoswag, GPSr's fired an ready to roll, caching partner getting itchy and you can't park the car, because someone didn't type that extra line about winter conditions!

I personally agree with Geo 100%, why you ask?? BECAUSE I WAS THERE WITH HIM THAT NIGHT!

Almost as fustrating as getting to the cache location to find that the cache has been stolen. I guess a new line in my cache descriptions will read "Cache may not be there when you arrive".

It's winter! What other conditions do you need to know?

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Brogan:
Is there anything more fustrating than to get to a cache site after driving all over God's country in the middle of the night on one lane back country roads that haven't seen a snowplow in 24hrs, only to find that the only access area is on private property (with permission) but that the parking spot is currently under a 10 ft snowdrift, and if you park in the road no one will be able to get around you? (not to mention you are still in the patrol area of that State Trooper that put his car in the ditch looking for you on a "suspicious activity" report 20 mins ago! Here you are decked out in cold weather gear, snowshoes, geoswag, GPSr's fired an ready to roll, caching partner getting itchy and you can't park the car, because someone didn't type that extra line about winter conditions!

I personally agree with Geo 100%, why you ask?? BECAUSE I WAS THERE WITH HIM THAT NIGHT!

You should be thankful. Now you learned to bring a shovel when caching in the winter.

9.4k · February 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by OUTSID4EVR:

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:
A beach cache that is rated a 2 that turns into a 5 during high tide should require this information from the hider.

Explicitly stating that TIDES affect the difficulty of a cache on a BEACH might be giving away too much information on the cache page. This is different from stating the park hours. It's up to the hider to determine this.

quote:
A mountain cache that is a 2 in the summer but a 5 when it snows is common sense and should not be required on the cache page.

Why is this example common sense while the previous example is not?

In the mountains, snow covers just about everything. On a beach, the water only comes in so far. Not every cache near a beach would get covered by water during a high tide.

20.7k · February 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cracker7M:... Seriously, the seasonal roads in western NY are NO JOKE during a snowy winter

I was in Cattaraugus in July in a Durango. The seasonal roads are fun even then.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

February 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
If a park closes, I think it's a good idea to post the hours on the cache page.....

Now as far as disabling caches because of snow, forget that! ....

I agree with BrianSnat and others. If you're hiding the cache and want others to avoid problems - it's helpful to add a note if there's specific hours for the location or the cache is in a busy locale (so the seeker can maybe pick a less conspicuous time to find the cache).

As for the snow - I went out today and guess what.... I couldn't find some caches due to the snow cover. I did look out the window and saw the snow outside when I left the house (and I would have been very disappointed if those hiders disabled their caches just cause they thought it was "too hard" with the snow!). That's all part of the fun and the cache hider "owes" me nothing. If I don't like the way the caches are hidden (or the way info's provided) - I just won't search for that individual's caches in the future. As for hunting in unfamiliar locales - it's probably a good idea to do some research beforehand.

Maybe we need to update our caches each day to note "It's now night and this cache difficulty has been modified to reflect the lack of light!".

[This message was edited by HartClimbs on February 14, 2003 at 05:01 PM.]

February 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:
A beach cache that is rated a 2 that turns into a 5 during high tide should require this information from the hider.

A mountain cache that is a 2 in the summer but a 5 when it snows is common sense and should not be required on the cache page.

This confuses me. The fact that the water level changes with the tides

is pretty much common knowledge. Furthermore, I can easily access tide predictions (and in fact own software that does them) so I can easily predict when a low tide or high tide will occur. And, in fact, I've used that tide

prediction software to time searches for caches on the shoreline.

I agree that "there's snow in the mountains in the winter" is common sense.

But I don't understand why you don't consider tides commonsense as well,

since they're a heck of a lot more predictable (expect for things like

storm surge, etc.) than snowmass accumulation.

9.4k · February 14, 2003

I think you misunderstood me. I meant the hider does not need to adjust the difficulty rating just because of snow (or tornadoes, hurricanes, etc).

A beach cache might be accessible from the top of a cliff 100 feet above the water so the tide doesn't matter. It may also be at the base of the same cliff where the difficulty would increase dramatically during high tide.

In the mountains, whether a cache is accessible from above or below a similar cliff, it will still have snow on it in the winter.

[This message was edited by Team GPSaxophone on February 15, 2003 at 12:37 PM.]

A request to cache hiders: please be more specific on cache pages

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