PDA'S.Palm OS vs. PocketPC

[+r&pmanatee]

I currently have a PDA with the Palm OS. I have never seen a Pocket PC in operation.I am considering a change to the Pocket PC because it can utilize the MS Streets and Trips. I would appreciate anyone's input on the Pro's and Con's of the Pocket PC versus the Palm OS, especially in regards to Geocaching.

 

"Will Geocache for free"

[+st_richardson]

quote:

---

Originally posted by r&pmanatee:

I currently have a PDA with the Palm OS. I have never seen a Pocket PC in operation.I am considering a change to the Pocket PC because it can utilize the MS Streets and Trips. I would appreciate anyone's input on the Pro's and Con's of the Pocket PC versus the Palm OS, especially in regards to Geocaching.

 

"Will Geocache for free"

---

I've never used a Pocket PC but really enjoy my palm m130. I can't imagine how a Pocket PC good be any easier.

[+Goodguys]

I've never used a Palm but really enjoy my PocketPC. I can't imagine how a Palm good be any easier.

 

Seriously, Street and Trips is a nifty program, and it does work well with a GPS. As well, I use Oziexplorer on my PocketPC, which allows me to use scanned topo maps. By the time I'm within walking distance of a cache, however, I usually put the iPAQ away and rely on my Garmin 12.

 

A PDA is kind of expensive and fragile for caching.

[azog]

I originally was a Palm person. Having started with an original Palm Pilot, then moving up thru the various models and ending with a Palm IIIxe.

 

Then I spent two years in the PocketPC camp. I first started with a Cassiopeia EM-500, then a Compaq IPAQ 3650, and then an HP567.

 

I got tired of PocketPC, and am now back in the PalmOS arena. I now have a Sony CLIE PEG-T615. My next upgrade will hopefully be one of the ARM-based models, if Sony releases a T-style form-factor.

 

----------

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be also be like him.

[+bigredmed]

Street maps for Palm OS:

 

Mapopolis.com

 

Vindigo.com

 

Both support GPS and both have detailed street maps.

 

Mapopolis has the entire country by county, and is searchable by state or city name.

 

A cheap Visor or Visor Deluxe from the pawn shop and mapopolis and you are set.

 

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

[+alexm]

quote:

---

I currently have a PDA with the Palm OS. I have never seen a Pocket PC in operation.I am considering a change to the Pocket PC because it can utilize the MS Streets and Trips. I would appreciate anyone's input on the Pro's and Con's of the Pocket PC versus the Palm OS, especially in regards to Geocaching.

---

 

I've had limited experience with a handspring visor deluxe (8M, I got it free) and currently use an iPAQ 3835 (64M+) (last 8 months or so).

 

While I really can't say anything good or bad about the newer PalmOS models (that visor deluxe was *SLOW* reading mobipocket pocket queries), I have a good bit of experience with PocketStreets (the S&T handheld program), mapopolis "demo", and XMap Handheld Street Atlas (all for PocketPC).

 

Streets & Trips 2002/2003 / Pocketstreets:

* Pocketstreets doesn't support routing/driving directions at all. Period. You still need to print paper driving directions.

* POI and maps are of acceptable quality.

* Driving directions are generally acceptable.

* Adding waypoints to maps requires that you either re-create the entire map, or use gpsbabel to make waypoint files.

* GPS "Real Time Tracking" is limited to something useless like 15 second intervals.

* Maps are limited to about 1MB each. (about 75 square miles)

* My Cost: $15 after rebate.

 

Mapopolis (free demo version):

* Mapopolis maps are just plain weird to me.

* Map detail appears to be lacking.

* Getting new maps in fast, limited by the speed of your internet connection / mapopolis.com server.

* There doesn't seem to be a way to get external waypoints into mapopolis.

* Map files are small.

* My Cost: $0.

 

XMap Handheld Street Atlas:

* XMap HH SA will do routing on the handheld.

* The user interface on the desktop application (to make maps/directions) is a bit funky.

* You can't import waypoints into XMap HH SA (the folks at delorme say buy SA2003 for that $$).

* Complicated driving directions can take a while to compute on the handheld.

* GPS tracking is quite adequate (2 second tracking?).

* Map files are slightly bigger than Pocketstreets and much bigger than mapopolis.

* Multiple maps are "daisy chained" together to create one big map.

* "GPS Like" support for GPS add-ons to your pocketpc (i.e. it has a compass screen, satellite, screen, etc...).

* My cost: $30.

 

With all that said, I keep pocketstreets and xmap on my handheld. Pocketstreets because I like the user interface and the maps better, can import waypoints, and can hold more map area in less memory. XMap because I may need driving directions on-the-fly some day. And if I can get external waypoints into XMap, I may just send Streets and Trips to the dumpster.

 

OK, so that didn't help much, did it?

 

alex

[+Goodguys]

Just on the subject of update frequency for Streets and Trips, I was quick to install the 2 second patch on my laptop, and I was disappointed that there was no similar patch for Pocket Streets. But Pocket Streets is not really suited for Highway cruising with its limited map size.

 

However, using my iPAQ in city driving (with slow-moving traffic), 15 seconds is more than adequate for updates. The only time its really safe to look at the screen is at a red light, and it almost always updates during the wait.

[+Mr. Snazz]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Goodguys:

However, using my iPAQ in city driving (with slow-moving traffic), 15 seconds is more than adequate for updates. The only time its really safe to look at the screen is at a red light, and it almost always updates during the wait.

---

 

Ugh, the 15-second update is *very* annoying. I wonder why they don't update as frequently as the nmea data comes in? Is it for safety reasons? I'd think people would stare at the screen *more* with slow updates, waiting for that darn car icon to finally move.

 

As for handhelds, I've worked with both; I prefer programming the PalmOS handhelds in a lot of ways, but so far as use and functionality I prefer my iPAQ. None of my palmos devices can take voice memos, and my iPAQ's reflective tft display makes it a must-have for outdoor use.

[+Goodguys]

quote:

---

I wonder why they don't update as frequently as the nmea data comes in?

---

 

I understand its a licencing issue with Microsoft's supplier.

 

The map screen does show a count-down timer to see when the next refresh is coming.

[+Dekaner]

My understanding is that if you use MapPoint, which is Streets & Trips big brother program, than you can purchase a $5 addon to give realtime updates.

 

I don't know if this update will work on Streets and Trips or not. Ask Trippy1976 as he had quite the impressive setup going in his Jimmy this past weekend.

 

(Apologies for the out of focus snapshot.)

 

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

[+Mr. Snazz]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Goodguys:

I understand its a licencing issue with Microsoft's supplier.

 

The map screen does show a count-down timer to see when the next refresh is coming.

---

 

Huh, that's a funky license arrangement But a bigger complaint for me, which I just remembered about, is that Windows detects my Streetpilot as being a mouse if its plugged in when I start up the laptop. Makes for interesting mouse movements.

 

I'm using Streets & Trips 2001, didn't see a countdown timer, but maybe I wasn't looking in the correct place. I need to check to see if they're using WM_TIMER messages to trigger the position update... if so... say hello to faster updates

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dekaner of Team KKF2A:

(Apologies for the out of focus snapshot.)

---

 

Here's my setup:

 

Works pretty well on paved roads. I want to get one of those laptop truck pedestals.. just need a spare hundred bucks

[+Goodguys]

The countdown timer is on my iPAQ running Pocket Streets 2002. My laptop, running Street & Trips 2002 is running with the 2 second patch and does not show a countdown. I never did run the laptop without the patch, so I don't know if the timer showed up.

Here's my screen at the Great Divide virtual cache:

[+-=(GEO)=-]

I was thinking that even with a Rhino skin or a ruggedized enclosure, taking a Pocket PC or a Palm through the woods, mud, water and other harsh environment like extreme temperatures would be risky business. Not to mention the falls...

 

How are the PDAs + GPS card holding up? Are the ruggedized enclosures really good?

 

Just curious to hear some feedback from the real world.

 

Regards,

Fabien.

 

A cache a day keeps the blues away...

[+GoldKey]

Related discussion going on here:

 

http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000900883&m=7810923735

 

"We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg."

[+-=(GEO)=-]

I'm curious to hear about durability experiences with those, not so much about the tech part. Thanks though.

 

Fabien.

 

A cache a day keeps the blues away...

[+trippy1976]

My understanding is that these two programs use the exact same mapping engine and database.

 

The major difference is that MapPoint is built to accept OLE uhm... 'stuff' and therefore people can build add on modules for it using a framework.

 

That is how I use MapPoint. I have an old Inspiron 3000 which runs MapPoint 2002 well enough. I purchased an add on for it called Advanced GPS ($10 these days). It increases the refresh rate to a configurable time, but you can set it as low as one second intervals. It also performs auto-routing for you and gives warning for turns and if you install the voice package will speak the instructions for you.

 

As far as running a pocket pc... pocket streets is okay, but I've found that either this ACTUAL pc setup or a routing Garmin V is WAY preferable to using pocket streets. But, in those situations where you have neither pocket streets is good in a pinch.

 

I prefer Pocket PC to Palm OS by 10000%. Palm has not kept up with either processing power or usability and my BE-300 cost me $140 and comes with all kinds of neat stuff. I understand dell will be releasing or selling a new Pocket PC model for around $200. I'll markwell you over to here for more info

 

http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000900883&m=7810923735&r=4630957835#4630957835

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dekaner of Team KKF2A:

My understanding is that if you use MapPoint, which is Streets & Trips big brother program, than you can purchase a $5 addon to give realtime updates.

 

I don't know if this update will work on Streets and Trips or not. Ask Trippy1976 as he had quite the impressive setup going in his Jimmy this past weekend.

 

(Apologies for the out of focus snapshot.)

 

http://www.kkf2a.com/temp/Team%20KKF2A%20Geocaching/images/IM002203.JPG

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

---

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1000111-1000101-1001111:

 

How are the PDAs + GPS card holding up? Are the ruggedized enclosures really good?

 

Just curious to hear some feedback from the real world.

---

 

While I don't use the gps attachment to my Handspring, I do bring it with me on most of my hunts. While I haven't dropped it in the mud, I haven't been gentle with it either. It's working fine. That and my gps is all I take when I go out. Oh, and a pen, and spare batteries.

 

george

 

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

[+Fattuhr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by georgeandmary:

Oh, and a pen, and spare batteries.

 

george

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

---

 

He says he takes a pen, check out his post on these cache pages.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=41348

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=42830

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=39169

 

My wife says put a coordinate on it and I'll find it.

[+LaPaglia]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1000111-1000101-1001111:

I was thinking that even with a Rhino skin or a ruggedized enclosure, taking a Pocket PC or a Palm through the woods, mud, water and other harsh environment like extreme temperatures would be risky business. Not to mention the falls...

 

How are the PDAs + GPS card holding up? Are the ruggedized enclosures really good?

 

Just curious to hear some feedback from the real world.

 

Regards,

Fabien.

 

A cache a day keeps the blues away...

---

 

I have a IPAQ 3635 with a Co-Pilot GPS jacket. I use a 128 meg cf card in it for maps (almost all of colorado), OZiexplorerCE and Pharos Ostia 4.01 (Screen updates every 2 secs for street driving w/ voice directions. I do not treat it gently, its been wet, splashed with mud and rained on. Still works great. And since I haev the room I also have the 250 closest caches on Mobibook, a handfull of games, all my contacts, datum translators and 1 hour of MP3's if I get bored.

 

I also have a palm Vx with the magellan Jacket.

 

I prefer the IPAQ, if for no other reason then the screen is SO much better than the palm. I use a belt clip with no case.

Works for me.

 

 

Lapaglia

Muga Muchu (forget yourself, focus)

[+phantom4099]

I have a compaq Ipaq (3955), I have hooked my GPS up to it a few times, but most programs for it are limited or cost more than what I am willing to spend at the moment (why can't there be more free stuff?).

 

But I have been looking at a really cheap palm unit (well under a 100) to take with e camping, or geocaching (if I ever get to an area that has some). I personaly do not want to drop my $600 dollar Ipaq, I would rather drop a $70 palm.

 

Wyatt W.

 

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

[+lostinjersey]

I heard that Mapsend (or was it streets?) had a GPS receiver for the palm 500 (among others) that allowed turn by turn directions. I was this close to buying the palm & the receiver/software when I found two things that made me wait: a) the turn by turn is not audio commands, it's beeps. Pardon me, but BEEP that. and second, you can't modify your maps, adding new stops, etc, etc. you MUST create the star/end and stop off line on the computer, download them into the Palm, then go. Which means no on the fly changes in plan.s Again. beep that.

 

I considered using my laptop with my 330x but the battery life on the laptop is abysmal. So I went and got an ac/dc converter so I can plug directly off the cigarette lighter. But now I can't run the GPS off the cig any more (unless I wanna go & but a spliter thingie, BEEP that)

 

Anyway, it all works & it's ok, but I would so much rather use a Palm type device, but I won't unless the first two issues are addessed. Well at least the 2nd one. the beep thing is just anonoying, but I could learn to BEEP with it I guess.

 

Straight PC MS compatability is a + but not absolutely necesary. Anyway, so does anybody know of any handhelds/receivers/software that meet my requirements?

 

 

www.gpswnj.com

[+fizzymagic]

There is one major difference between PalmOS and Pocket PC units, that, IMNSHO, is definitive:

 

Battery life.

 

When I go out of town, I load the Pocket Queries for each of the places I am visiting. I can usually go more than a week with my Palm M515, even using the backlight a lot, while my guess isthat you'd be lucky to get two days with a Pocket PC.

[+Stunod]

Gwho - X-Map will do turn by turn directions on the Palm, but it takes FOREVER to calculate the route (you can do it on the PC almost instantly). I also have Rand McNally Streetfinder...it only calculates routes on the PC.

 

Nobody has a "decent" package yet. But for the cost of a Palm, the GPS attachment & software you might as well go pick up a StreetPilot III.

 

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."