+Opus P Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 quote:Originally posted by RedwoodRed: Copyrighted materials, whether they are some of my website templates, graphics, software or music DOES NOT DO HARMFUL PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL DAMAGE TO THE ENVIRONMENT OR THE PEOPLE WHO UTILIZE THEM. It is an issue of ethics. The above illicit materials are not. So this is a matter of situational ethics. Some laws are more deserving of enforcement than others? I'm surprised that as a copyright holder you are in favor of pirating music and software. Please tell me again where I can find some of your website templates, apparently it is OK with you if I trade them around with all my friends so everyone can use them "for the purpose they were intended: to bring the enjoyment of [websites] to those who will appreciate that joy." Or is it that it's OK to steal some copyrighted material, but not others? I was trying to stay out of this, but it's just gotten so ridiculous now that I had to jump in. Placing pirated music and software in a cache is akin to distributing it commercially. From a legal standpoint it could have a quasi-commercial purpose in that it could concievably innure a benefit to the person who placed it. It's not likely, but in terms of standing or status in the geocache community it could be argued that the person placing the pirated materials gained something from that placement. I'm not saying it would be a successful argument, I'm not a judge or a jury, but it's definitely an arguable position. Bottom line, IMNSHO, stick to placing things that have been legally purchased or made by the placer, and deemed safe and appropriate by the community; and keep away from questionable stuff. =-=-=-=-=-= Opus P Crathvaf Ehyr Visit my Buddhist Reading Room. Quote Link to comment
+Opus P Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 quote:Originally posted by VentureForth: Seriously, folks. A compilation of various songs on a CD is not wrong. Otherwise, sites like Live365.com could not exist. Live365.com and other sites like it pay BIG bucks to ASCAP and BMI for the rights to broadcast music. As a subscriber you get the benefit of their payment. quote:Another case-in-point is that RIAA is really interested in people _making money_ while illegally distributing copies.That may appear to be the case, but does the mere fact that they don't have the ability to go after everyone make it OK to steal the works of professional artists? quote:Why do they sell blank video tapes at a video rental store? Why do they sell blank cassettes & CDrs at a music store?So I can tape a song, or a movie, or a TV show to watch later or to archive; not so I can give them to all my friends. quote: . . . gave it away to a friend of mine, I don't think any enforcement agency would care.So breaking the law and stealing is OK because the technology exists and you're not likely to get caught. That's nice. Next time you're parked in the woods and a half hour from your car, maybe someone will come along and siphon a few gallons out of your tank; it must be OK because they sell hoses at K-Mart and no one is likely to catch the thief. Makes perfect sense now, thank you for clearing that up. =-=-=-=-=-= Opus P Crathvaf Ehyr Visit my Buddhist Reading Room. Quote Link to comment
+urbo Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 terrorist, thug, nazi, crook, cdr. yep, they have alot in common eh? NOT. riaa going after us? yep, sure... the last time that happened we got peer to peer. now they have lost all control. i attended metallica album burning parties. how many bands want to end up working at BK because the market fell out on their stuff? not many.. some of us need to get a life and stop trying to force there "values" on the rest of us. have a cd and a smile will ya? cache on! urbo Quote Link to comment
+urbo Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 terrorist, thug, nazi, crook, cdr. yep, they have alot in common eh? NOT. riaa going after us? yep, sure... the last time that happened we got peer to peer. now they have lost all control. i attended metallica album burning parties. how many bands want to end up working at BK because the market fell out on their stuff? not many.. some of us need to get a life and stop trying to force there "values" on the rest of us. have a cd and a smile will ya? cache on! urbo Quote Link to comment
Atilla the Pun Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 quote:Originally posted by urbo: terrorist, thug, nazi, crook, cdr. When you offer physical coercion to "motivate" me to stop what I am legally doing, then yes, you are a terrorist or a thug. Your sabre rattling escalated this from a discussion to something that may end in legal action or physical harm to someone. Deal with it. I have no sense of humor where you are concerned, you have declared your self ignorant and dangerous. quote:some of us need to get a life and stop trying to force there "values" on the rest of us. have a cd and a smile will ya? cache on! urbo You are correct sir about that. You need to quit attempting to force your values on me. If I ignore your blatently pirated CD in a cache then I am as guilty as you in regard to this law. So I will accept your offer and "have a CD and a smile". Quote Link to comment
Atilla the Pun Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 quote:Originally posted by urbo: terrorist, thug, nazi, crook, cdr. When you offer physical coercion to "motivate" me to stop what I am legally doing, then yes, you are a terrorist or a thug. Your sabre rattling escalated this from a discussion to something that may end in legal action or physical harm to someone. Deal with it. I have no sense of humor where you are concerned, you have declared your self ignorant and dangerous. quote:some of us need to get a life and stop trying to force there "values" on the rest of us. have a cd and a smile will ya? cache on! urbo You are correct sir about that. You need to quit attempting to force your values on me. If I ignore your blatently pirated CD in a cache then I am as guilty as you in regard to this law. So I will accept your offer and "have a CD and a smile". Quote Link to comment
Atilla the Pun Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 Red, I'm not mad at you, nor is our discussion intended to be excessivly emotional on my part. quote:Originally posted by RedwoodRed:Now, the whole issue of what you should do if you encounter illicit drugs, alcohol, or pornography for that matter, in a cache is kind of moot, don't you think? Not only is it illegal but it is harmful and could cause great damage if the wrong person gets their hands on the cache (non-geocache finders, small children, ANYONE!), as I believe then someone WOULD try and sue Jeremy and Geocaching.com over any damages/death/etc. incurred by that type of behavior. They are both illegal, this is the common thread. We live in a democratic society, if we don't like the laws we have the right, no, the duty to attempt to change them. But if we live outside the law then we become a land of chaos, ruled by brute force. It is because of the high degree of theft of copyrighted materials that legislation like the DMCA has been passed. This abomination has attempted to supercede the 1st Amendment. You see, your actions affect me, even if you think they don't. quote:Copyrighted materials, whether they are some of my website templates, graphics, software or music DOES NOT DO HARMFUL PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL DAMAGE TO THE ENVIRONMENT OR THE PEOPLE WHO UTILIZE THEM. It is an issue of ethics. The above illicit materials are not. Please, don't use confuse the two, or use them to bolster this arguement. It is comparing apples to grapes. Yes, it is an issue of ethics as well as legality. See above why it is unethical for you to do this. But my main point here is that they are both illegal. So you can pick and choose which laws you feel like following today? To take this to an extreme, will you, too decide that the laws against assault are "inconvient"? Or maybe you'll be almost broke with your kids hungry and in desparation open a meth lab to make some money? quote:I can go out right now and purchase a subscription to an MP3 service that will allow me to download files from a selection of musics that have been *approved* for that use. Many artists, especially new bands and independant artists promote the use of peer-to-peer trade of their materials on such websites as a way of exposing themselves to a wider audience. See my reply to RAD Dad earlier in this thread. quote:Read Rolling Stone magazine sometime to understand the legality behind this topic... I have. It is the same principal behind shareware or freeware software. How can one know if the CD they have discovered in a cache has illegally purloined materials on them? One cannot. Why should you care? Answered above, and see my reply to RAD Dad. quote:I just believe _strongly_, whether or not it is PC here or with Jeremy that people who find CD's of materials, regardless of the content, should just leave them alone if they feel offended by them. Don't destroy them. Don't trade them out and break them under your heel, just leave them for the purpose they were intended: _to bring the enjoyment of music to those who will appreciate that joy_. No matter what Jeremy's personal or professional beliefs are, one cannot justify that type of behavior based on _his_. There is no edict within the rules of Geocaching.com's FAQ that states you should destroy any music CDs found and until it does, please don't. If a person is angry enough to destroy an item that someone actually considered valuable and feel that others would be looking forward to finding it, then I say they have issues that go beyond those of rights or ethics and should learn a bit of self-restraint and educate themselves further about that specific item that have chosen to render useless. What part of "illegal" do you not get? Do you fail to understand that if I ignore these illegal CD's that I am giving my tacit approval to this action? quote:Any item's value is in the eye of the beholder. McD's toys are treasure to small children. If one chooses to remove and destroy each and every McD's toy they come across because of some personal belief of theirs, that person has ruined Geocaching for a lot of small people. I don't like Barney (*the Anti-Christ!*), but I don't stomp on any of the Evil Purple toys that I encounter in GC's... I just don't take them. Barney isn't illegal, yet. quote:Atilla, I apologize if you think that I am attacking you personally... I am not. I just think that if you had had the opportunity to render the Team Exocet CD null and void before I could listen to it, and I found out about it? Then you and I would have very strong issues between us, and I don't even know you. I don't think you're mad at me, nor am I mad at you. We have a difference of opinion. We are both acting on our opinions. quote:It is issues like this that make it so that I don't post for weeks on end to this forum out of disgust. I will not quit Geocaching, but it sure tarnishes the childish excitement I have for the sport. I can understand that. But we must be forces for social change. Therefore these issues are important. Respectfully, AtP Edit: Maybe I'll start using the buttons for the UBB code [This message was edited by Atilla the Pun on April 24, 2002 at 08:25 PM.] Quote Link to comment
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