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Questionable Cache Contents


KITandSHAE
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I haven't been caching long (found only 13 at this point), but it seems like I've seen quite a bit of questionable content in caches.

 

I've found mints, candy, flavored lip gloss, mouthwash, and cosmetics on several occassions. Food is expressly prohibited on the "cache tutorial" page, and cosmetics don't seem like such a good idea either - after all, they are perishable, can melt or leak, and may have fruity or flowery smells that attract animals, insects and bees.

 

Besides, who wants to eat a mint or put on some lip gloss that's possibly been sitting in a grungy damp box for six months?

 

Granted, some caches are nice and tight and dry, and some candy (such as mints) may not be all that attractive to animals. But aren't there plenty of other things to contribute, without even going there?

 

I've also seen a lighter or two. I haven't seen a rule against that, but it seems like a bad idea. I would imagine that kids sometimes find caches when out playing alone.

 

Any comments on the appropriateness of the above items? And has anyone found any other questionable content they'd like to mention?

 

Shae

of team KITandSHAE

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quote:
Originally posted by KITandSHAE:

. . . some candy (such as mints) may not be all that attractive to animals.


 

FWIW - Catnip is mint and it and other types of mint can be very attractive to animals. Most dogs like mint a lot. (Mine will eat my mentholyptus cough drops if I leave them out.

 

=-=-=-=-=-=

Opus P

Crathvaf Ehyr

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Visit my Buddhist Reading Room.

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quote:
Originally posted by KITandSHAE:

I haven't been caching long (found only 13 at this point), but it seems like I've seen quite a bit of questionable content in caches.

 

Any comments on the appropriateness of the above items? And has anyone found any other questionable content they'd like to mention?

 

Shae

of team KITandSHAE


 

You are correct shae, some folks just don't think before they place items or they are not prepared with items to swap and they use anything they have with them. The rules are simple all you have to do is read and follow. I would add that If you don't want your own 5 year old playing with it then don't put it in the cache. My wife and I make a fun thing out of purchasing appropriate items for caches.

 

15777_1900.gif

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I think your instincts are correct on the appropriateness of the contents. I know if I were caching with children I wouldn't want to have to explain why they can't have the lip gloss or candy. It shouldn't have been there in the first place. I think some have gotten off track a bit by thinking if they find the cache they are obligated to leave something behind, anything they have with them.

 

"Take Something, Leave Something"

I interpret that to mean, if you have something which is appropriate to trade, than please participate. Otherwise, please only sign the logbook.

 

Lighters need to be removed immediately. They are potential bombs heating up in these cache boxes through the heat of summer. icon_eek.gif

Have you considered contacting the owner of the cache's to let them know about the contents?

 

txjacksons.gif

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I think your instincts are correct on the appropriateness of the contents. I know if I were caching with children I wouldn't want to have to explain why they can't have the lip gloss or candy. It shouldn't have been there in the first place. I think some have gotten off track a bit by thinking if they find the cache they are obligated to leave something behind, anything they have with them.

 

"Take Something, Leave Something"

I interpret that to mean, if you have something which is appropriate to trade, than please participate. Otherwise, please only sign the logbook.

 

Lighters need to be removed immediately. They are potential bombs heating up in these cache boxes through the heat of summer. icon_eek.gif

Have you considered contacting the owner of the cache's to let them know about the contents?

 

txjacksons.gif

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if you find a cache that is in need of attention you should probly email the cache owner and let them know what is going on with the cache. in some cases such as food items in caches you should most likely remove the food when you leave the area. now if a cache is nothing but food you are going to have a problem because you would basically be stealing the whole cache. icon_biggrin.gif

 

as for lighters, matches, and knives....

its a gray area, but it seems that the rule is dont place them in caches that have a higher chance of being found by non-geocachers.(urban caches)

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if you find a cache that is in need of attention you should probly email the cache owner and let them know what is going on with the cache. in some cases such as food items in caches you should most likely remove the food when you leave the area. now if a cache is nothing but food you are going to have a problem because you would basically be stealing the whole cache. icon_biggrin.gif

 

as for lighters, matches, and knives....

its a gray area, but it seems that the rule is dont place them in caches that have a higher chance of being found by non-geocachers.(urban caches)

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I've read so many posts about cache contents, it has long become worn out. Certainly there are items that simply are not thought out. These are the items that present a potential hazard such as lighters. Actually, it didn't even dawn on me about their explosive potential until I read this thread. In that sense, these seemingly endless posts about cache contents do have merit. But as far as things like gum, chapstick and pocket knives etc.- whoopee doo! I think they're good ideas. I've personally taken said items from a cache in exchange for others. Just the other day, a brand new tub of lip balm was a welcome sight for my parched lips in a cache that left me dehydrated looking for it. As far as the kiddie factor goes, if you're letting your child rifle through a cache without your supervision, that's shortsightedness on your part. Do you not inspect the Halloween contents before letting your child loose with his candy.

Enough with the posts about contents. If you don't like it, leave it. There is a guide for placing and finding a cache on the home page and everyone should read it before they do anything else.

 

MajBach

You can't have everything.

where would you put it?

1compass.gif

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While I understand your concerns you have to keep in mind that not everybody reads the FAQs or understands just how easliy animals can be attracted to this stuff. I will be posting a note with the online cache description reminding people not to place items like food or things that have scent. These days I carry extra items when I go caching and if I find food or scented items I just replace them with something else.

As for matches and lighters, I usually remove them. Once in a while I find swiss army knives and small pocket knives, if someone is caching with their kids I'm sure they will have the common sense to watch what their kids tarde.

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quote:
Originally posted by Opus P:

FWIW - Catnip is mint and it and other types of mint can be very attractive to animals. Most dogs like mint a lot. (Mine will eat my mentholyptus cough drops if I leave them out.)


 

Good point - I hadn't thought of that. I was only trying to understand what the justification of the food-placer might have been.

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>But as far as things like gum, chapstick and pocket knives etc.- whoopee doo! I think they're good ideas... a brand new tub of lip balm was a welcome sight...<

 

I'm sure it was excellent for your personal comfort, but it's still attractive to animals and likely to melt or leak.

 

Gum? Yuck! I'm sure it wouldn't take long for that to melt all over the rest of the cache contents in the right weather.

 

>if you're letting your child rifle through a cache without your supervision, that's shortsightedness on your part.<

 

If you re-read a little more carefully, you'll see that I mentioned unsupervised children, not supervised ones. One of the caches I found with a lighter in it had a log book entry from a child who had happened upon it, knowing nothing about geocaching.

 

>Enough with the posts about contents<

 

You are welcome to not participate in any thread you find tedious.

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Take nothing ...laeve nothing, sounds like a good approach, that some people might like to consider. I took some people caching this weekend to introduce them to the sport. The second cache we found had the following:

a mold piece of bark (I discarded it)

an old magnolia pod

an empty 35mm film canister

a screw

I tried to explain that these really weren't the best examples of items to leave in a cache. We tried to leave something of a little better quality but we weren't prepared to this extent.

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...let me apologize for mouthing off with such a grumpy attitude; my day started off not so well. I was surprised when I read my post this afternoon that I in fact wrote it.

 

I do think these points should be addressed however.

quote:
Originally posted by magellan315:

While I understand your concerns you have to keep in mind that not everybody reads the FAQs or understands just how easliy animals can be attracted to this stuff.


 

This is true, but this is not my probelem. Not everyone drives home sober either. This doesn't mean the rest of us should stop having an occassional drink. This is an easily rectified problem. All Jeremy has to do is set it up so new members have to read a disclaimer and agree to it, have an e-mail verification check to validate membership and then send a brief letter to that e-mail address outlining basic Geocaching rules. Considering the enthusiasm most new members have, I doubt such a document would be trashed without reading.

 

quote:
In all cases, I simply removed the questionable items.

 

See, I do not agree with this. I don't believe anyone had the right to determine what is questionable or not. If you think that something shouldn't be in a cache, take that item in exchange for what you place; otherwise leave it. If it's something illegal or maliciously dangerous, contact the authorities. If it's food, or a lighter or other subjectively 'questionable' material, contact the cache owner and leave a description of what you found in your log so others can be forewarned.

 

quote:
>if you're letting your child rifle through a cache without your supervision, that's shortsightedness on your part.<

 

If you re-read a little more carefully, you'll see that I mentioned unsupervised children, not supervised ones. One of the caches I found with a lighter in it had a log book entry from a child who had happened upon it, knowing nothing about geocaching.


 

What are unsupervised children doing at a cache in the first place? If they're on a 'hunt' with their parents, it should never get to the point where they are unsupervised. If they're children that just happened to 'stumble' upon a cache, well, that could go in a million different directions. I believe the chances of a child young enough to not to know how to use a pocket knife or lighter for example, stumbling on a cache are slim at best. Certainly the chances of finding other discarded hazardous items not associated with a cache are much greater.

 

quote:
>Enough with the posts about contents<

 

You are welcome to not participate in any thread you find tedious.


 

Certainly this is true. However, I do not have the luxury of omitting redundant posts that have been asked time and time again from being downloaded. How many times have we seen:

 

'This cacher logged a visit, but didn't actually go to my virtual cache. what should I DO?!!'

 

'What kind of GPS should I buy?'

 

'My travel Bug is missing! Please send help!'

 

I enjoy starting my day by reading posts in this forum. Yes, it is an open forum and we are all afforded the liberty to ask and state what we want. But it becomes tedious to see 100 new topics in a day and half of them are on subject matter that has already been discussed to death before. This thread is specifically about cache contents, but the general idea is about exercising common sense. Likewise, it would be a lot easier for the poster of a new topic to do a search of past similiar topics than it is for the reader to sort through them all; especially the for the pathetic saps like myself who live out in the country and are having a good day when their bandwidth it more than 21,000 bps.

 

MajBach

You can't have everything.

where would you put it?

1compass.gif

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>...let me apologize for mouthing off with such a grumpy attitude; my day started off not so well.<

 

Apology accepted.

 

I said:

>In all cases, I simply removed the questionable items.<

 

You said:

>I don't believe anyone had the right to determine what is questionable or not. If you think that something shouldn't be in a cache, take that item in exchange for what you place; otherwise leave it.<

 

If it's food, then it isn't my judgement, but that of this site. In any case, I do replace the things I take with new items whenever possible. However, if I see a lighter or food and I don't have trading goodies with me, I'm going to remove it.

 

Incidentally, I have not removed the Swiss Army knives I've seen.

 

>What are unsupervised children doing at a cache in the first place? <

 

Children often play in parks and forests near their homes.

 

>I believe the chances of a child young enough to not to know how to use a pocket knife or lighter for example, stumbling on a cache are slim at best.<

 

The child may or may not be familiar with (and care about) lighter safety. Children aren't known for exercising good judgement.

 

The log entry I saw looked like the handwriting of a kid about 10 years old or so. Not that I'm an expert on kids' handwriting analysis.

 

>I do not have the luxury of omitting redundant posts that have been asked time and time again from being downloaded.<

 

The title of the thread clearly stated what it was about, and you chose to click on it and read it.

 

[This message was edited by KITandSHAE on April 16, 2002 at 11:03 AM.]

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When it comes to the mention questionable items and the concept of removing them. if it is some thing that falls under the heading of NON-CACHABLE items as listed in the FAQ or Tutorial page....REMOVE IT.....as a player of the game I am bound by the WRITTEN rules to Enforce them. and until these rules change I believe everybody without a doubt should do this. If it leaves the cache bare, try to leave little extra to beef the cache back up. I do it!

 

as for pocket knives, I've had one since I was eight. I was taught Knife saftey from the word GO. so I don't see Pocket Knives in a cache as being a problem. If kids are going to injure them selves with something sharp I am sure it would be easier for them to procure one from the kitchen then find one hidden way off trail, camoflauged, and tucked neatly in to the crotch of a tree.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

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I spent my first weekend caching and located 6. I found several questionable items, one was dog bisquits, left by the owner of the cache which I left in place but the second bothered me enough to remove it and that was a cigarette. Don't get me wrong... I smoke, but I figured what was the point. It was dis-colored and no one would want the thing anyway. Alot of them contained what I call "cache-trash" just whatever the finder happened to have on them, plastic forks, quarters and what not. I figure that if I'm going to the trouble of finding a cache, I want to leave something cool for the next guy. Thats why I went to the C-store and loaded up on trinkets that I found interesting. Also I ordered 3 ammo boxes that I plan to place myself and I'll put a printed list of what I'd rather not find in there, ie: food, cigarettes and such.

As for exploding lighters icon_rolleyes.gif .... Does a lighter explode if you leave it in direct sunlight all day? Does it explode if you leave it in your car in direct sunlight? I really don't think thats a valid argument on whether its appropriate cache fare. I personally don't leave them, but is it really my place to decide whether they belong? I read in another thread about alleged "pirated" cd's being found. One user claimed he destroys them on the spot. My question to him was, how do you know whats on it? Could be someones vacation pictures or shareware or any number of acceptable items. Just because its on a CD-R doesn't mean anything. As for lighters, I say they are OK, because I may actually need a lighter. As for kids finding them, if they are smart enough to use a GPS then they OUGHT to be smart enough to know not to play with matches.

 

Just my opinion.

 

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are...

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I spent my first weekend caching and located 6. I found several questionable items, one was dog bisquits, left by the owner of the cache which I left in place but the second bothered me enough to remove it and that was a cigarette. Don't get me wrong... I smoke, but I figured what was the point. It was dis-colored and no one would want the thing anyway. Alot of them contained what I call "cache-trash" just whatever the finder happened to have on them, plastic forks, quarters and what not. I figure that if I'm going to the trouble of finding a cache, I want to leave something cool for the next guy. Thats why I went to the C-store and loaded up on trinkets that I found interesting. Also I ordered 3 ammo boxes that I plan to place myself and I'll put a printed list of what I'd rather not find in there, ie: food, cigarettes and such.

As for exploding lighters icon_rolleyes.gif .... Does a lighter explode if you leave it in direct sunlight all day? Does it explode if you leave it in your car in direct sunlight? I really don't think thats a valid argument on whether its appropriate cache fare. I personally don't leave them, but is it really my place to decide whether they belong? I read in another thread about alleged "pirated" cd's being found. One user claimed he destroys them on the spot. My question to him was, how do you know whats on it? Could be someones vacation pictures or shareware or any number of acceptable items. Just because its on a CD-R doesn't mean anything. As for lighters, I say they are OK, because I may actually need a lighter. As for kids finding them, if they are smart enough to use a GPS then they OUGHT to be smart enough to know not to play with matches.

 

Just my opinion.

 

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are...

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I'm not sure who you were talking about from that previous, lively, discussion. My take on the CD-Rs is if I know it's illegal, it's broken on the spot. If I don't know, then it's not my business unless I choose to trade for it.

 

Moral and ethical issues aside, Geocaching has gotten some questional press recently. Questions about whether Geocaching is an acceptable use of public land, Nat'l parks, etc. have been raised. All it would take is for a couple of caches with high-dollar warez, or the RIAA to step in about major music transfers to make a splash in the news and we could be looking at a rapidly diminishing playing field for this sport.

 

AtP

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I agree with, and have suggested myself as well, the notion that in order to get co-ordinates you should be registered with Geocaching, and part of that process should require agreeing to a few basic rules of conduct, I think that would be a great idea.

 

Atilla The Pun, what would you consider illegal? I mean, if I made a mix CD of some of my favorite songs, would you break that? What about a tape?

 

So far as items such as pocket knives, lighters, emergency fire kits, and so on, I think those are good items to place in caches that are in more remote areas, as they are hiking essentials, but not good ideas for areas such as urban caches, parks frequented by children (many unsupervised who might stumble on your cache while playing hide and seek in the bushes or something or exploring)

 

I have picked up some small pocket knives, and keychain pocket knives for caches, but only for ones that are out in the woods.

 

So far as a cigarette in a cache goes, that is an absolute no no. I like to smoke fine cigars, and have thought about doing a cache that would invlolve trading cigars, but it is a direct violation of the geocaching rules, plus, because I have no way of knowing who will find the cache, it would be irresponsible to place something in a cache that would be illegal for someone to have, and anyone under 18 can not legally have tobacco products. Now, maybe if somehow I could do a cache that was in a location that only adults can enter, like in a cigar shop or a bar or something, that might work, but I doubt that would get approved as it would seem commercial.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

 

[This message was edited by RAD Dad on April 17, 2002 at 10:20 AM.]

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Normally I am not one to try and pick a fight, if people are going to quote me use it context, MajBach. The quote you reposted "While I understand your concerns you have to keep in mind that not everybody reads the FAQs or understands just how easliy animals can be attracted to this stuff" and the manner in which you used to prove your point were out of line. I was not trying to say that it was the cache placers problem if food or such was placed in a cache was your problem. The statement was exactly what it said, poeple who are not used to being in the outdoors are not aware of how sensitive animals are to scents and many people who start Geocaching do not always read the helpful FAQs. I in now way implied or stated that this is the problem of the cache placer.

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quote:
Originally posted by KITandSHAE:

 

The log entry I saw looked like the handwriting of a kid about 10 years old or so. Not that I'm an expert on kids' handwriting analysis.


 

That could have been me. I have horrible handwriting and its getting worse since pretty much the only time I write is to sign a check or enter a log. Unless they state they're a child I wouldn't assume anything.

 

--- yrium ---

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quote:
Normally I am not one to try and pick a fight,…

 

So what are you saying? You are picking a fight? Sounds to me like that’s the context you intended now.

 

quote:
I was not trying to say that it was the cache placers problem if food or such was placed in a cache was your problem

 

Nor was I. Since I’ve never placed a cache, I wouldn’t even be thinking along those lines.

The problem is , as you stated “if someone is caching with their kids I'm sure they will have the common sense to watch what their kids tarde”, there seems to be a lack of common sense. This is a problem for all of us in that it can cause caches to go missing, it can give Geocaching a bad rap publicly, it can be dangerous, it can lead to legal issues and it can lead to an endless stream of daily threads focusing on ‘cache stashes’. It often seems to be our problem to educate some 'newbies' on these issues - based on how frequently this problem arises - when I do not feel it has to be.

 

quote:
The statement was exactly what it said, poeple who are not used to being in the outdoors are not aware of how sensitive animals are to scents and many people who start Geocaching do not always read the helpful FAQs

 

As was my reply. It would be fairly easy to get people to read and agree to a guide to finding/placing caches. Although still no guarantee, at least one-step closer.

Your statement refers too all non-permitted items in a cache (i.e. alcohol, drugs, copyrighted material, food, etc.) and not just food. I was addressing all of them. I do not know what you meant by how I 'proved my point', since I proved nothing. I did use an analogy to demostrate that others shouldn’t have to cease placing pocketknives and the like in a cache because some parents don’t want their kids to find them. If it’s permitted within the guidelines and FAQs, then it’s permitted, period.

 

quote:
I in now way implied or stated that this is the problem of the cache place

 

Who said that you did? My response focused on a solution to the problem of unawareness amongst some Geocachers. You simply stated the well-known fact, i.e. problem icon_rolleyes.gif

 

MajBach

You can't have everything.

where would you put it?

1compass.gif

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quote:
Normally I am not one to try and pick a fight,…

 

So what are you saying? You are picking a fight? Sounds to me like that’s the context you intended now.

 

quote:
I was not trying to say that it was the cache placers problem if food or such was placed in a cache was your problem

 

Nor was I. Since I’ve never placed a cache, I wouldn’t even be thinking along those lines.

The problem is , as you stated “if someone is caching with their kids I'm sure they will have the common sense to watch what their kids tarde”, there seems to be a lack of common sense. This is a problem for all of us in that it can cause caches to go missing, it can give Geocaching a bad rap publicly, it can be dangerous, it can lead to legal issues and it can lead to an endless stream of daily threads focusing on ‘cache stashes’. It often seems to be our problem to educate some 'newbies' on these issues - based on how frequently this problem arises - when I do not feel it has to be.

 

quote:
The statement was exactly what it said, poeple who are not used to being in the outdoors are not aware of how sensitive animals are to scents and many people who start Geocaching do not always read the helpful FAQs

 

As was my reply. It would be fairly easy to get people to read and agree to a guide to finding/placing caches. Although still no guarantee, at least one-step closer.

Your statement refers too all non-permitted items in a cache (i.e. alcohol, drugs, copyrighted material, food, etc.) and not just food. I was addressing all of them. I do not know what you meant by how I 'proved my point', since I proved nothing. I did use an analogy to demostrate that others shouldn’t have to cease placing pocketknives and the like in a cache because some parents don’t want their kids to find them. If it’s permitted within the guidelines and FAQs, then it’s permitted, period.

 

quote:
I in now way implied or stated that this is the problem of the cache place

 

Who said that you did? My response focused on a solution to the problem of unawareness amongst some Geocachers. You simply stated the well-known fact, i.e. problem icon_rolleyes.gif

 

MajBach

You can't have everything.

where would you put it?

1compass.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by RAD Dad:

 

Atilla The Pun, what would you consider illegal? I mean, if I made a mix CD of some of my favorite songs, would you break that? What about a tape?


 

If it was obviously a "bootleg" tape or CD with band names I recognize (e.g. Lead Zeplin, Beasty Boys, Limp Bizkit), probably. I am not the Copyright Police, nor do I wish to play them while Geocaching. I do wish to promote what is good for this sport, see my previous post for why I don't think this is good for the sport. The RIAA has way too much money and way to much greed, and way too many laywers for me to want to get them involved with Geocaching.

 

quote:
So far as items such as pocket knives, lighters, emergency fire kits, and so on, I think those are good items to place in caches that are in more remote areas, as they are hiking essentials, but not good ideas for areas such as urban caches, parks frequented by children (many unsupervised who might stumble on your cache while playing hide and seek in the bushes or something or exploring)

 

I have picked up some small pocket knives, and keychain pocket knives for caches, but only for ones that are out in the woods.

 

So far as a cigarette in a cache goes, that is an absolute no no. I like to smoke fine cigars, and have thought about doing a cache that would invlolve trading cigars, but it is a direct violation of the geocaching rules, plus, because I have no way of knowing who will find the cache, it would be irresponsible to place something in a cache that would be illegal for someone to have, and anyone under 18 can not legally have tobacco products. Now, maybe if somehow I could do a cache that was in a location that only adults can enter, like in a cigar shop or a bar or something, that might work, but I doubt that would get approved as it would seem commercial.


 

RAD Dad, I think we're in agreement on everything else.

 

AtP

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The question I have is how does a class 4 cache, not suitable for children, become filled with toys after six visits? There are plenty of items under $2 that would mean more to the next cacher, than somebodies discarded used toy. That may be acceptable for a childs cache class 1 or 2, but not for a class 4.

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Originally posted by yrium:

That could have been me. I have horrible handwriting ... Unless they state they're a child I wouldn't assume anything.QUOTE]

 

It wasn't the handwriting - it was the content. My name is blah blah... I live in a yellow house... come and see me... here is my phone number... etc., all in childish grammar as well as large childish handwriting.

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i have absolutely NO problem with cdr's in my caches. load'em up boys! someone comes by and breaks'em thats fine. the stack of a 100 is at about $20 so they are going to be very busy chasing my caches around.

 

the music industry has no pity charging $15 for something they have about $1 into. considering i own about 800 legit cd's i think i have done my share of paying for limos and chemical substances.

 

$80 for good seats at a rock concert?? do i get some personal gratification with that??

 

ok then..

 

lighters in geocaches..

i think this kinda stinks but i'm not the moral police. people leave lighters in their cars all the time. the inside of a car can easily reach 120 deg in the summer. geocaches are rarely out in the sun. i dont see an explosion issue here.

 

food, chap stick, candy.. yuck, but unless its my cache, i'm not messing with it. just leaving a note for the cache owner via email is enough. let the cache owner decide.

 

if i find it in my caches i would remove it and put up a "dont leave **** in my caches". its worked great with golfballs and tennis balls. no balls in my caches. tennis balls or golf balls that is!

 

i dont think anyone has the right to destroy anything in anyones cache. if you see something you dont agree with then trade it out.

 

as far as the napster police guy thats out there.. if i caught on to somebody doing that to my caches (destroying cdr's) i would deffinitely set him up for a very uncomfortable experience. remember, you are visiting an area thats new to you but well known to someone else. they have the upper hand.

 

urbo

icon_mad.gif

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i have absolutely NO problem with cdr's in my caches. load'em up boys! someone comes by and breaks'em thats fine. the stack of a 100 is at about $20 so they are going to be very busy chasing my caches around.

 

the music industry has no pity charging $15 for something they have about $1 into. considering i own about 800 legit cd's i think i have done my share of paying for limos and chemical substances.

 

$80 for good seats at a rock concert?? do i get some personal gratification with that??

 

ok then..

 

lighters in geocaches..

i think this kinda stinks but i'm not the moral police. people leave lighters in their cars all the time. the inside of a car can easily reach 120 deg in the summer. geocaches are rarely out in the sun. i dont see an explosion issue here.

 

food, chap stick, candy.. yuck, but unless its my cache, i'm not messing with it. just leaving a note for the cache owner via email is enough. let the cache owner decide.

 

if i find it in my caches i would remove it and put up a "dont leave **** in my caches". its worked great with golfballs and tennis balls. no balls in my caches. tennis balls or golf balls that is!

 

i dont think anyone has the right to destroy anything in anyones cache. if you see something you dont agree with then trade it out.

 

as far as the napster police guy thats out there.. if i caught on to somebody doing that to my caches (destroying cdr's) i would deffinitely set him up for a very uncomfortable experience. remember, you are visiting an area thats new to you but well known to someone else. they have the upper hand.

 

urbo

icon_mad.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by urbo:

i have absolutely NO problem with cdr's in my caches...

lighters in geocaches..

i dont see an explosion issue here....

 

let the cache owner decide.

 

i dont think anyone has the right to destroy anything in anyones cache. if you see something you dont agree with then trade it out.


 

My sentiments exactly.

Unfortunately...

Food and Copyrighted material are forbidden in caches, as set out by the rules in Geocaching.com.

As much as I would like to trade songs, maps, etc., and can see it someday giving Geocaching a black eye.

 

Don't do it, man!

 

MajBach

You can't have everything.

where would you put it?

1compass.gif

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Where does it say in the Geocaching faq or information about what to and not to place that you should not place copyrighted material? I just re-read the FAQ, and didn't see anything about not placing CD-R's.

 

So far as placing a mix CD, I see no problem with that. It's not like you are placing an entire album or something. There is no way for anyone to prove that you didn't record the songs from the radio (which is perfectly legal) or from your Digital Cable or Satellite TV's DMX channels.

 

I was planning on mixing music I like, along with original skit comedy I was involved in producing, creating sort of a variety show on CD.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

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At the risk of flamming the "CD's in Caches" fire again and without getting into the argument of who makes too much money or who is morally bankrupt, I think putting together a CD of music that you enjoy and think someone else might enjoy is harmless enough. We're not talking about mass producing pirated music and selling it here. icon_smile.gif

 

As far as lighters go... I have placed several lighters into caches, but they are always of the Zippo type, brand new, semi-collectable and do not have, nor have they ever had fluid in them. Disposable lighters, especially used ones, are questionable just for their trade value.

 

I think the FAQ is pretty clear about what is OK and what is not.

 

"I thought you said this was a quick find!" - My wife

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At the risk of flamming the "CD's in Caches" fire again and without getting into the argument of who makes too much money or who is morally bankrupt, I think putting together a CD of music that you enjoy and think someone else might enjoy is harmless enough. We're not talking about mass producing pirated music and selling it here. icon_smile.gif

 

As far as lighters go... I have placed several lighters into caches, but they are always of the Zippo type, brand new, semi-collectable and do not have, nor have they ever had fluid in them. Disposable lighters, especially used ones, are questionable just for their trade value.

 

I think the FAQ is pretty clear about what is OK and what is not.

 

"I thought you said this was a quick find!" - My wife

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quote:
Originally posted by RAD Dad:

Where does it say in the Geocaching faq or information about what to and not to place that you should not place copyrighted material? I just re-read the FAQ, and didn't see anything about not placing CD-R's.


 

I only assumed it did after reading this some time ago. (Read the last post)

 

MajBach

You can't have everything.

where would you put it?

1compass.gif

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Not all copied CD's are illegal. For instance you can make a mix CD, with different artists, so long as you do not have more than a certain number of songs from any one album (I believe you can have no more than three songs from the same album) Also, you may not sell the mix CD you have made, unless you payed royalty fees, and recieved permission, but you can freely distrubute it. It is the same principal as is used in internet "radio" netcasts. (in fact they get thier rules from the same source as to what you can and can not do with a internet radio netcast)

 

That is what I intend to do, and it is perfectly legal to do so. So please, copy-police, don't go breaking any CD's of mine you may find...plus some of the material on it will be original skit comedy material that I was involved in producing and share the rights to.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

Link to comment

quote:
i dont think anyone has the right to destroy anything in anyones cache. if you see something you dont agree with then trade it out.

 

as far as the napster police guy thats out there.. if i caught on to somebody doing that to my caches (destroying cdr's) i would deffinitely set him up for a very uncomfortable experience. remember, you are visiting an area thats new to you but well known to someone else. they have the upper hand.


 

Now THATS scary... hehe

 

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are...

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by urbo:

i have absolutely NO problem with cdr's in my caches. load'em up boys! someone comes by and breaks'em thats fine. the stack of a 100 is at about $20 so they are going to be very busy chasing my caches around.


 

Jeremy has said this is not allowed. Wanna bet you'll start getting some of your caches archived if people listen to your invitation?

 

quote:
The music industry has no pity charging $15 for something they have about $1 into. considering i own about 800 legit cd's i think i have done my share of paying for limos and chemical substances.

 

$80 for good seats at a rock concert?? do i get some personal gratification with that??


 

Do you really want the RIAA's lawyers coming down on Geocaching.com, maybe forcing Jeremy to close down? Or did you just completely ignore my earlier post because you want something for free and no one elses opinion is important to you?

 

This isn't about the money (not for me anyway). Nor do I work for or in any way, shape, or form, represent the recording industry, software industry, etc.

 

quote:
i dont think anyone has the right to destroy anything in anyones cache. if you see something you dont agree with then trade it out.

 

I might trade for illegal items, but probably not.

 

quote:
as far as the napster police guy thats out there.. if i caught on to somebody doing that to my caches (destroying cdr's) i would deffinitely set him up for a very uncomfortable experience. remember, you are visiting an area thats new to you but well known to someone else. they have the upper hand.

 

urbo

icon_mad.gif


 

Not only are you a thief, but now you, like most other criminals, are going to offer me physical violence to "protect your interests". And this petty attempt at terrorism makes you different from Osama bin Laden how? Other than scale, you don't seem to have the stomache for anything big.

 

Talk is cheap, bring it on, if you have the chutpza.

 

Edit: Corrected spelling

 

[This message was edited by Atilla the Pun on April 23, 2002 at 08:33 PM.]

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by urbo:

i have absolutely NO problem with cdr's in my caches. load'em up boys! someone comes by and breaks'em thats fine. the stack of a 100 is at about $20 so they are going to be very busy chasing my caches around.


 

Jeremy has said this is not allowed. Wanna bet you'll start getting some of your caches archived if people listen to your invitation?

 

quote:
The music industry has no pity charging $15 for something they have about $1 into. considering i own about 800 legit cd's i think i have done my share of paying for limos and chemical substances.

 

$80 for good seats at a rock concert?? do i get some personal gratification with that??


 

Do you really want the RIAA's lawyers coming down on Geocaching.com, maybe forcing Jeremy to close down? Or did you just completely ignore my earlier post because you want something for free and no one elses opinion is important to you?

 

This isn't about the money (not for me anyway). Nor do I work for or in any way, shape, or form, represent the recording industry, software industry, etc.

 

quote:
i dont think anyone has the right to destroy anything in anyones cache. if you see something you dont agree with then trade it out.

 

I might trade for illegal items, but probably not.

 

quote:
as far as the napster police guy thats out there.. if i caught on to somebody doing that to my caches (destroying cdr's) i would deffinitely set him up for a very uncomfortable experience. remember, you are visiting an area thats new to you but well known to someone else. they have the upper hand.

 

urbo

icon_mad.gif


 

Not only are you a thief, but now you, like most other criminals, are going to offer me physical violence to "protect your interests". And this petty attempt at terrorism makes you different from Osama bin Laden how? Other than scale, you don't seem to have the stomache for anything big.

 

Talk is cheap, bring it on, if you have the chutpza.

 

Edit: Corrected spelling

 

[This message was edited by Atilla the Pun on April 23, 2002 at 08:33 PM.]

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by KITandSHAE:

You are welcome to not participate in any thread you find tedious.


 

I agree. The forums are for contructive dialog involving both new and experienced geocachers. If one finds the subject matter or discussion thread offensive, boring or repetitive, move on to something you find more interesting. There is no need to brow-beat another person for bringing up a topic pertinent to them. Others obviously found it interesting enough to comment on.

 

As for inappropriate cache contents, I am probably guilty for leaving items that I believe(d) were/are suitable. We always keep a good supply of waterproof matches to trade as they are a good survival item. Not long ago my patriotic side got the better of me and I bought American flag lighters in caches (I didn't think about the potential of them exploding... sorry.) and one of the coolest items I've found to leave in a cache are Chapstick "Chap Grips" - Chapsticks with a neoprene "jacket" and a plastic clip designed to hook to a backpack or belt. I really didn't want to leave them, and they never last long in the caches they are placed in.

 

As for finding STUPID stuff... I read a log for a cache in my area that I'd already visited where someone had placed a cigarette and lighter (in a ziplock!) in a cache. That was just plain lame, IMHO. We've removed condoms, small peppermint candies (like those given at restaurants) and single sticks of chewing gum. I can't believe that that dad let his kid eat a rice krispie square left in a cache, even if it was one of those that you buy singly in the store... it is just too risky and I would never allow my kids to do that.

 

If you are concerned about items that might melt in warmer climes, consider crayons and candles, items that are in almost every cache I've encountered. They are made out of wax, afterall, and should be placed in a solo ziplock to keep all other contents safe.

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

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One of my favorite cache treasures is the Geocaching song compilation by Team Exocet. All of the songs are related to geocaching in some way, and one track is from NPR about geocaching. I plan on making a copy of it for myself and passing it along in another cache.

 

I would never consider making bootleg copies of software and putting it in a cache. AOL CD's (aka: coasters), or software that was given to me for free should be acceptible.

 

As someone who writes software, I would be very upset if someone ripped-off one of my original designs, and as a published writer, if someone used some of my content without at least quoting me or giving me due credit. I hate plagurism.

 

BUT... I think it is foolish to threaten others from either side ("anything I find illegal I'll break!" or "break my CD's and you'll get it!"). If you see items that you find "questionable", leave it for someone else who has fewer scruples, please, or trade it out for something decent. I really do not believe that the RIAA (or whomever) is going to waste litigation on Geocaching.com when Jeremy (or anyone else) has no proven control over what gets placed - hidden or traded for - in every single cache. The only way they would be is if some over-zealous self-righteous anti-music copying person points them this way.

 

Geocaching has far more to lose through people who abuse the eco-systems of the places in which they cache AND those left-wing tree-hugging dirt-munching Earth Firsters or E.L.F. supporters who think that the "public" in "Public Lands" means only them....

 

Oops, is my opinion showing?

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by RedwoodRed:

BUT... I think it is foolish to threaten others from either side ("anything I find illegal I'll break!" or "break my CD's and you'll get it!"). If you see items that you find "questionable", leave it for someone else who has fewer scruples, please, or trade it out for something decent. I really do not believe that the RIAA (or whomever) is going to waste litigation on Geocaching.com when Jeremy (or anyone else) has no proven control over what gets placed - hidden or traded for - in every single cache. The only way they would be is if some over-zealous self-righteous anti-music copying person points them this way.

 

 

Oops, is my opinion showing?

----------

Lori aka: _RedwoodRed_

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

http://www.geogadgets.com

http://www.beautywithattitude.com

 

Your opinion is showing, as was mine. I am not going to the RIAA if I find illegal CD's in a cache, I hate what they do with a great passion.

 

However, if I find drugs in a cache should I leave them there? That's not going to happen either. Illegal copies of copyrighted material do not belong in a cache, per Jeremy. It so happens that the law agrees with him.

 

As for my "bring it" comment, I almost took that out when I edited my post. But I want it clearly understood that I don't submit to terrorists, thugs, or other criminal elements. So accept my applogies if that seemed like too much testosterone to you, but some people only seem to understand one thing.

Respectfully,

 

AtP

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quote:
Originally posted by RedwoodRed:

One of my favorite cache treasures is the Geocaching song compilation by Team Exocet. All of the songs are related to geocaching in some way, and one track is from NPR about geocaching. I plan on making a copy of it for myself and passing it along in another cache.

 

I would never consider making bootleg copies of software and putting it in a cache. AOL CD's (aka: coasters), or software that was given to me for free should be acceptible.

 

As someone who writes software, I would be very upset if someone ripped-off one of my original designs, and as a published writer, if someone used some of my content without at least quoting me or giving me due credit. I hate plagurism.

 

 

Oops, is my opinion showing?

----------

Lori aka: _RedwoodRed_

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

http://www.geogadgets.com

http://www.beautywithattitude.com


 

So the difference between someone "ripping off" one of your designs and you copying a couple of copyrighted tracks onto a CD to give away is ... what?

 

And as I've said before, I'm not the Copyright Police. I'm not going to go out hunting caches to see if they contain copyrighted materials. I'll be hunting caches to hunt caches.

 

AtP

 

Edit: fixed mangled UBB code

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quote:
Originally posted by Atilla the Pun:

However, if I find drugs in a cache should I leave them there? That's not going to happen either. Illegal copies of copyrighted material do not belong in a cache, per Jeremy. It so happens that the law agrees with him.


 

Now, the whole issue of what you should do if you encounter illicit drugs, alcohol, or pornography for that matter, in a cache is kind of moot, don't you think? Not only is it illegal but it is harmful and could cause great damage if the wrong person gets their hands on the cache (non-geocache finders, small children, ANYONE!), as I believe then someone WOULD try and sue Jeremy and Geocaching.com over any damages/death/etc. incurred by that type of behavior.

 

Copyrighted materials, whether they are some of my website templates, graphics, software or music DOES NOT DO HARMFUL PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL DAMAGE TO THE ENVIRONMENT OR THE PEOPLE WHO UTILIZE THEM. It is an issue of ethics. The above illicit materials are not. Please, don't use confuse the two, or use them to bolster this arguement. It is comparing apples to grapes.

 

I can go out right now and purchase a subscription to an MP3 service that will allow me to download files from a selection of musics that have been *approved* for that use. Many artists, especially new bands and independant artists promote the use of peer-to-peer trade of their materials on such websites as a way of exposing themselves to a wider audience. Read Rolling Stone magazine sometime to understand the legality behind this topic... I have. It is the same principal behind shareware or freeware software. How can one know if the CD they have discovered in a cache has illegally purloined materials on them? One cannot. Why should you care?

 

I just believe strongly, whether or not it is PC here or with Jeremy that people who find CD's of materials, regardless of the content, should just leave them alone if they feel offended by them. Don't destroy them. Don't trade them out and break them under your heel, just leave them for the purpose they were intended: to bring the enjoyment of music to those who will appreciate that joy. No matter what Jeremy's personal or professional beliefs are, one cannot justify that type of behavior based on his. There is no edict within the rules of Geocaching.com's FAQ that states you should destroy any music CDs found and until it does, please don't. If a person is angry enough to destroy an item that someone actually considered valuable and feel that others would be looking forward to finding it, then I say they have issues that go beyond those of rights or ethics and should learn a bit of self-restraint and educate themselves further about that specific item that have chosen to render useless.

 

Any item's value is in the eye of the beholder. McD's toys are treasure to small children. If one chooses to remove and destroy each and every McD's toy they come across because of some personal belief of theirs, that person has ruined Geocaching for a lot of small people. I don't like Barney (*the Anti-Christ!*), but I don't stomp on any of the Evil Purple toys that I encounter in GC's... I just don't take them.

 

Atilla, I apologize if you think that I am attacking you personally... I am not. I just think that if you had had the opportunity to render the Team Exocet CD null and void before I could listen to it, and I found out about it? Then you and I would have very strong issues between us, and I don't even know you.

 

It is issues like this that make it so that I don't post for weeks on end to this forum out of disgust. I will not quit Geocaching, but it sure tarnishes the childish excitement I have for the sport. If anyone has issue with my above statements, please email me personally instead of cluttering the forums (redwoodred@geogadgets.com). I will not openly respond to any other comments posted here.

 

If I hand you a dollar to pay for that .02 worth of opinion... do you think I'll get any change back?

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

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Copy the CD's to your computer and send out the orginal. Hey, the ethics don't change, but no one else will know. icon_smile.gif

 

Seriously, folks. A compilation of various songs on a CD is not wrong. Otherwise, sites like Live365.com could not exist. There are rules for broadcasting, and rules for distribution. Having a CDr of compiled songs is not really different than setting up a playlist on live365.

 

Another case-in-point is that RIAA is really interested in people making money while illegally distributing copies.

 

Why do they sell blank video tapes at a video rental store?

 

Why do they sell blank cassettes & CDrs at a music store?

 

Frankly, if I choose to put every Weird Al song on a single CDr sampled down to a level that is almost irritatingly unrecognizable as music and gave it away to a friend of mine, I don't think any enforcement agency would care. Take that same CDr, make 1500 of them, sell them on eBay for $5 a piece, and I think you're gonna get into some trouble.

 

bang.gif

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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Copy the CD's to your computer and send out the orginal. Hey, the ethics don't change, but no one else will know. icon_smile.gif

 

Seriously, folks. A compilation of various songs on a CD is not wrong. Otherwise, sites like Live365.com could not exist. There are rules for broadcasting, and rules for distribution. Having a CDr of compiled songs is not really different than setting up a playlist on live365.

 

Another case-in-point is that RIAA is really interested in people making money while illegally distributing copies.

 

Why do they sell blank video tapes at a video rental store?

 

Why do they sell blank cassettes & CDrs at a music store?

 

Frankly, if I choose to put every Weird Al song on a single CDr sampled down to a level that is almost irritatingly unrecognizable as music and gave it away to a friend of mine, I don't think any enforcement agency would care. Take that same CDr, make 1500 of them, sell them on eBay for $5 a piece, and I think you're gonna get into some trouble.

 

bang.gif

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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