+Ramness Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Someone shot my cache! 4 times! Here is the cache “Where Everybody is somebody” http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=12709 I got an email from cacher TinSparrow on Friday stating that he had found the cache it had been shot multiple times. He said many of items inside were destroyed including the cache camera. He also said he had removed it and the items associated with it. The cache was the final location of a 12-stage multicache, the final location was hung from a tree about 15-20 feet in the air, so I guess it made a likely target. Really ticks me off cause this cache is the one that I put the most work into out all of our caches. Took me weeks of planning and hours of hunting in the park of the final location for the perfect tree over the course of about 3-4 months. When I did find the right tree I left a dummy cache in it for 2 months to see if anything would happen to it. Nothing did… So I put it out. The cache was a little over a year old and was only found a total of 13 times, but there was a 187 day gap between logged finds and when TinSparrow found it although I had checked on it back in November and all was well then so its still a guess as to when it was actually shot. The park it was in was County Park for mountain biking/ horseback riding, there would be no reason for hunters or anyone to have a gun there. I met up with TinSparrow tonight and retrieved the cache. What a mess! The bullets pierced both pens that were in the cache, with 4 bullet holes going through the end that would have been towards the ground. Several items made it out unharmed but out course all the ones that could make a mess were hit. They Shattered a new compact mirror that was in the package (TinSparrow says they area getting 13 years bad luck for that one) destroyed an electronic desktop calendar / clock. Shot the Energizer bunny (stuffed toy), the cache camera was hit by at least 3 if not all 4 of the bullets. We a have one emergency rain poncho with holes in it. The logbook took a glancing blow. The best is a VHS copy of the movie Pretty Woman complete with the original jacket case, it has a impression across the front where one of the bullets grazed down the front but there is no damage to the tape at all. I took the camera into a dark room a pulled the film out, since it was a disposable camera it works opposite of a regular reusable camera in that as you take pictures the film is wound back into the canister, rather than more film pulled out for each picture. So even though it is dented and some of the unexposed film has a hole though it, it might be salvageable. I’ll find out tomorrow. I was only able to find 2 of the bullets but there were no “exit wounds”, they are quite small compared to the holes they made. Not really sure what caliber they are, just that they are smaller than .40, my knowledge of bullets is pretty much limited my own gun. It’s also possible that they shot the cache down from the tree at the rope was cut and there is another significant dent possibly from falling on a rock. Pictures. Here is the end of the cache complete with bullet holes. Damaged items The bullet riddled cache camera The film container out of the camera The 2 recovered bullets compared to a .40 bullet Still not sure what I’ll do with the cache, replacing it is out of the question. I might just get a new container and change the last step. Sorry for the long post this is just such a crazy find for us. Has this happened to anyone else? This Isn't rocket science... Quote Link to comment
+coast2coast2coast Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Its on the back of the camera Take a look http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/79702_1300.jpe *We are teaching our Zoe dog to sniff out Tupperware...* Quote Link to comment
+Bloencustoms Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Take a look at the bullet holes. An expert might be able to approximate when it was shot by the amount of rusting where the paint was blown off. Or, you could shoot the box in another place, and leave it outside to determine how long it takes for a bullet hole to rust that much. As far as the bullets go, if they didn't pass all the way through the box, you could weigh them, and compare to others, but I'd bet it was a .22 cal. What ain't no country I ever heard of! They speak English in What? Quote Link to comment
+Runaround Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 If I had to guess, I'd say some kid got a .22 for Christmas. If it were my cache, I would rethink the final hiding spot to make it more discrete and replace the cache. Now where did I park my car??????? Quote Link to comment
South_Cache Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 My father was a beekeeper here in Louisiana. He used to raise bees to sell for beekeepers in the northern states that can't keep bees year round. Several time he witnessed so called "sportsmen" shooting his bee hives. The best part was these mental cases were teaching their children the same lesson, that it is ok shoot up other peoples property. I don't have anything against hunters but these guys need to have their guns confiscated and ban them from buying more. They only make legitimate law abiding gun owners look bad. Capn Skully Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around. Quote Link to comment
dave and jaime Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Runaround:If I had to guess, I'd say some kid got a .22 for Christmas.... that sounds about exactly right. looking at how the corrision is beginning to advance arount the entry holes id guess a couple of weeks after christmas. as for the calibre, i believe that it is a .22 because of its size and doesnt have any appearent mushrooming, that box wouldnt have stopped or damaged a high power calibre like that. very, very sad, sounds as if you put alot of work into your cache. Quote Link to comment
+Roadster Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 quote: Its on the back of the cameraTake a look LOL! It does say SHOOT, What can ya say. It most definitely looks like a 22. I have a question: Was it found on the ground or was it tied back up in the tree? The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard. Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 quote: It most definitely looks like a 22. I have to disagree on .22 cal,from size of holes in box,no way a .22 did it,my guess at least a .38spl I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
Orions Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Dont think a 22 could have done that. Was this in a state park or a park where firearms are not allowed? If it was I would suggest bringing this up to the authorities. Not to complain about your cache but so they will know that people are using firearms in the park. I know I wouldnt want to be biking in a park where people are shooting off guns next to me, unless it's at a gun range within the park (there is a park near me with a gun range, Markem Park). Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Your cache was plundered they just didn't happen to take the cache itself. rcracer had one that was shot up and they even took time to sign the log. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
Dale_Lynn Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Whats the old saying "out of sight, out of mind"... Dale -------------------------------------------------------- I'm Diagonally Parked, In A Parallel Universe. -------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment
+maleki Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 A 12 part cache huh! Think someone was a little frustrated by the end?? Quote Link to comment
+Roadster Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 I was bored today so I brought out my 22 rifle and an old ammunition box and shot it. Then I brought out my 38 pistol but No Bullets! I have bullets for the 45 but that is NO WAY 45 bullet holes. But here is the pic of the box, I only shot it 3 times and I was shooting high today, I kept them in the same pattern (except for no fourth shot) The 22 bullets went all the way through the other side of the box except for one, the second picture show's the slug. I had nothing in the box. . The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard. Quote Link to comment
+Jamie Z Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Looks to me like the "real" cache was shot with something less powerful than the .22 roadster used. Take note that 2/3 of Roadster's bullets went all the way through, while none of the four bullets that struck the real cache did. I don't think a few sheets of paper and some plastic would account for the difference. Also, look at the entry holes. On the real cache, there is a lot more tearing, suggesting that the bullets were traveling at a slower velocity. Roadster's ammo can has very clean entry holes. The recovered bullets from the real cache sustained far less damage than Roadster's recovered bullet. Of course... comparing the size of the holes and the recovered bullets suggest that they were very similar. Are there .22 shells with less power? Maybe they were old. Jamie Quote Link to comment
Northern-Lights Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Probably a .22 ......it is the most common firearm to be dragged along. However......brand of ammo and type of firearm used has a huge difference in how the bullets preform. A .38 would have zipped through in a heartbeat....about the only calibre I can think of that might not would be a 9 mm......might want to try that.....and of course...change the last leg of your cache. We're going on a treasure hunt...we're not quite sure just where...but with our trusty GPS, we'll find a cache stashed there!! By Daughter Cheryl Quote Link to comment
Wo Ist Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Hi, if you post a straight on shot of the bullet holes and a close up of the slugs I will give you a definate answer as to what caliber it was. Unfortunately there is no way to tell how old the holes are from a picture. Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Looks like a .32 or .25 to me they just do not have the power of even a .22LR,they are about the same as a .22 short.Sorry for that type of mentality though.The world is getting crazier every day. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
+TinSparrow Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 I'm sorry to notice this thread so late. On the way out as I was removing the cache debris, I came across a "Park Rules" sign which (of course) states quite clearly no hunting or trapping inside this wild space. This is such a great park and the 12 stage cache which ended up here was very well done. It's a shame to find evidence of some lowlife acting in this manner, and it's sad to see this happen to a great cache. Quote Link to comment
+Sissy-n-CR Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 There a few different types of .22--from .22CB (very low power) to .22MAG. Plus, .22 is probably the most popular of all smaller calibers and they are available in rifle and handgun flavors. Comparing the two photos, wild ###ed guess would be .22 short, but that's pure speculation. CR Quote Link to comment
+Desert_Warrior Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 I have been stuck in front of this stinkin &*_#$@!^ laptop most of the weekend, and have not been outside the city limits all weekend. This is the first time I have ever overhauled a laptop. NEVER AGAIN. Sorry about your cache. Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC). El Paso, Texas. Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom. They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS! Quote Link to comment
+Ramness Posted March 9, 2003 Author Share Posted March 9, 2003 The park was a Gwinnett county park. I see police officers there every now and then on Mountain bikes when I’m there but as TinSparrow said it is posted “no firearms”. My method of hanging the cache was… I hammered an old dog tie out post into the ground next to the carefully selected tree. I tied one end of the rope (camo colored for hunters) to the post and threw the rest through the fork in the tree’s trunk. I cut the dangling end so and tied a cheapo green carabineer to the hook the cache to, so that it hung maybe 3 feet off the ground. I then pulled the rope up to the fork, tied a loop in the rope and attached another cheapo carabineer to hold the rope on to the tie out post. The excess rope was covered in leaves and sticks. So all a cacher would have to do is unhook the carabineer and let the cache down then pull it back up and hook it back when they were done. I believe TinSparrow said he found it on the ground. After looking over everything (he brought me the rope, and anchor along with the cache) the rope is cut in 2 places and, some of the rope is missing along with the carabineer that hooked the cache to the rope. Only 2 if the bullets left impressions on the opposite sides of the can. Our puppy found a 3rd bullet on the floor this morning, must have fallen on the floor while I was sifting through all the little broken bits. The 4th is still unaccounted for. Here are a couple more pics. Marks in the can, only 2 marks were left. The whitish mark above the lower red circle is from welding the latch I believe. Close up of the holes as requested. With .40 caliber in for size comparison. Close up of the holes from inside the can. I may go to the cache area tomorrow to see what I can find there just out of curiosity. I’m also thinking of posting a note at the trailhead alerting others. Of course how to explain that an item left out the in the park that was shot to people unfamiliar with Geocaching may be tricky. This Isn't rocket science... Quote Link to comment
+Roadster Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I was thinking 22 because of less noise and more of them around, but a pistol would be closer to what shot it due to being able to conceal one and there are not to many people carrying 22 pistols. Or are there? Is this in Texas? The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Only 4 shots? They must of ran out of ammo or got scared. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+Ramness Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Went out to the cache area today to see what I could see. First thing I noticed as I walked up was that the tree the cache was hanging from had been marked with pink surveyors tape! In looking around at the area and as I hiked out it would appear that it is the only tree marked in this fashion. Very strange! The message board at the trailhead has a lock on it and signage prohibiting signs from being taped to the board. So I’ll have to make a phone call or 2 to see about placing the sign. I took the film to Wolf camera, they said they should be able to get the film out and develop it! The marked tree This Isn't rocket science... Quote Link to comment
+RJFerret Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 OK, so they took nothing, damaged lots of things but left three used bullets... This doesn't sound like trading up to me!!! It'll be really amusing if they took their pictures! {grin} Randy PS: I can "see" the cache log page now: "Wow, great hunt, finally found the 12th stage, took nothing, left a few bullets, cache in poor shape... Thanks Ramness570!" Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 The log on the one I found shot up read "Found your geothingy it wasn't hid very well. The Threedickheads" They also shot up their own log. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
WolfPack2099 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Yikes!! Is this the beginning of "geo-rage"? Quote Link to comment
+Rebel Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 From the lack of exit wounds, and the ragged entries, that's my guess. Have a Dixie Day! Quote Link to comment
Lyra Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think they may have been using subsonics of a caliber that I can't tell, but looks bigger than a .22 from what I can see. Subsonics have a lower muzzle velocity and, thus, less penetrating power. Lower powder load results in a slower bullet that tends to cause more impact than clean "pass through" of higher velocity bullets, plus less penetration. Definitely looks bigger than a .22 though. Dunno what kind of pellet gun would pack the kind of wallop that would actually pass through the metal ammo container, if only two bullets were recovered. Just a thought, though. Always wear proper caching safety equipment! Quote Link to comment
+Ramness Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 So now I’m wondering, who marked the tree? I don’t think a Cacher would have done it! So it had to of been someone that stumbled on it, maybe marked it to come back and shoot it (premeditated cache murder?) Or shot it then marked it to come back and see what happens? This Isn't rocket science... Quote Link to comment
+Rebel Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 These things pack a wallop these days. More info. Not sure about the tape; that is a poser! Have a Dixie Day! Quote Link to comment
+Web-ling Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 At least they didn't try to LOG IT four times... Quote Link to comment
+IV_Warrior Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I wonder what that would do...I saw the ammo for one today, and I doubt it'd make it in AND out of an ammo can. For those who haven't seen it yet, it's basically a .22 MAG casing necked down to .17 caliber (think typical airgun pellet). The bullet tip looked plastic.... I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should happen to get back before I return, please ask me to wait. Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 the .17hmr would penitrate the can and then explode,the velocity is 2550fps with a 17gr v-max bullet I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
+ArkansasBugman Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Could be Buckshot from a shotgun. Quote Link to comment
excop1313 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 First let Me say, I Am Very Sorry, But I Could Not Stop Laughing, about the way You worded Your Post. I read it last night and fell out of My chair. (very sorry) Just caught Me off Guard. My insight: From seeing Pic 6. No way is this a 38 cal. spent impact round. If this was a 22 cal., even with low gram, You would have much more spread on impact. Seems to Me, from Pics I see, and only from pics, This is a pellet, fired with high vel. impact, because of rip pattern. For Anyone that thinks Pellets will not do This type damage, I have Memories of past. See You are in Georgia area as Me, Hope We Meet In The Great Sport Of Geocaching. Best of Luck My Friend. excop1313 Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 My Crossman .22 caliber,pump action will do just as excop1313 explained.It looks just like a .22 with no depth penatration.With no guns allowed, I wonder if pellet rifles,or pistols get through.Also did you find any spent cartriges at the site?This would also help to see what cal. if a centerfire ammo,or rim fire?Rim fire .22,centerfire,.25,32. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
+majicman Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Man, that gives the term cache "hunting" a whole new meaning!! (Couldn't resist...) --majicman Quote Link to comment
+ApK Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Ramness570:Someone shot my cache! 4 times! Yikes. Shooting up in the air in a public area...some people are just too stupid. Same types that drop bricks off of highway overpasses for fun, no doubt. Anyway, I would have said something in the .38 caliber area, like a subsonic 9mm or lightly reloaded .38 Spl, but Roadster's picture shows that a .22LR could have done it, and that's more likely. I'll probably be down in the basement with an ammo can and a pellet gun before too long... ApK Quote Link to comment
FOF Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ArkansasBugman:Could be Buckshot from a shotgun. No its not a Buckshot, the pic originally posted shows a shell that was found close by, and the actual peice that penetrated the box. My guess would have to be its somewhere around a .22-250. Quote Link to comment
+Roadster Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Take a look at the pics I posted earlier in this thread of the same type (or close to it) ammo can and then take a look at his close up pics of his ammo can. Mine was from a 22 rifle and see how clean of a hole the 22 slugs put in there, they are perfectly round and smaller, now his can has tore or ripped holes in it. I don't have a pellet gun to attempt to see if that’s the type of hole it would leave but I would "guess" that would be the way a pellet would do it. Plus being in a park it would be a quiet gun. After I said all that, I just can't believe a pellet could do that, till I saw the posted url by "Da Rebel" of the air pellet guns. What a fun debate! I wish I did have a pellet gun to compare the holes! The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard. Quote Link to comment
+DNova Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Very sorry this happened to you, but you must find SOME entertainment out of it. I would be upset if someone shot my geocache like this, but I would also find some pleasure in it. It's part of the life of a geocache, and yours was one of the very few that have been shot at! You have a great story to tell! Keep us updated, and show us the photos from the camera when you get them! ~Don Quote Link to comment
+Ramness Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Nope I didn’t find any casing while I was out there, I forgot to mention that. It is a little entertaining to look at all the stuff that was in the cache and read what everyone has to say about it. If I had to choose I would rather it had been one of my caches that I had an idea of where to leave it, put it together, went out found a spot and left it in a matter of a few days. Rather than this one that took a fair amount of planning. The pictures survived! Even after the camera was hit with 3 of the 4 bullets that ripped through the cache! Picked up the pictures today. 10 of the 11 used frames came out! The 11th was of me when I went to check it on October 17th… oops… guess I should have wound it. This Isn't rocket science... Quote Link to comment
+Runaround Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I guess I need to clarify my earlier post. It looks like some kid got a .22/pellet gun, a knife, and some flagging tape for Christmas. Now where did I park my car??????? Quote Link to comment
+WildcatRegi Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 It wasn't me! The cannon I shoot would probably have taken your box and the tree with it! However, your box was probably shot with a shotgun, your picture looks like flattened pellets. I had some acreage and I humped in some large birdhouses over a half-mile through tall brush just to have them shot, so I know how you feel. It's not just shotgunners though, one of my birdhouses still had a broadhead stuck in it from some archer. These are NOT sportsmen or hunters, these are just a-holes. "The hardest thing to find is something that's not there!" Quote Link to comment
+Night_Hawk Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Looking at the picture of the film canister I'd be willing to bet that the negatives still inside the casing could be salvaged, have you thought about taking it in and having someone look at it to see if it's worth trying to save what's left? Quote Link to comment
+IV_Warrior Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Night Hawk:Looking at the picture of the film canister I'd be willing to bet that the negatives still inside the casing could be salvaged, have you thought about taking it in and having someone look at it to see if it's worth trying to save what's left? quote:Originally posted by Ramness570:The pictures survived! Even after the camera was hit with 3 of the 4 bullets that ripped through the cache! Picked up the pictures today. 10 of the 11 used frames came out! The 11th was of me when I went to check it on October 17th… oops… guess I should have wound it. Yep, I'd say he though of it... Just because you're paranoid DOESN'T mean they're not ALL out to get you. Quote Link to comment
+Planet Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Let me tell a little story here. I had a friend who was target practicing in his back yard. Acres and many acres of trees behind his house. Well, he missed the target and the bullet flew and flew and flew and flew through the woods, missing every tree there, just kept on going, losing velocity the whole way until it came down with a thunk on the foot of a man stting in his back yard quite far away. He called the police and they were able to figure out where it came from and my friend was arrested. Eventually the case was dropped when they got to court, but don't think because there are trees all over that a bullet won't find it's way through. Cache you later, Planet I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here. Quote Link to comment
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