PVC PIPE Cache Containers -- Trouble waiting to happen?

[+jollybgood]

I wanted to raise this issue for discussion to see what the rest of you think.

 

Recently I logged two rather unique caches which consisted of a section of PVC Pipe 4 inches diameter and about 18 inches in length). One end is capped with a PVC endcap and the other is fitted with a Rubber pressure plug (which has a huge wing nut which is tightened to seal the 'container'. Very ingenious really and virtually indestructable. I was even thinking of making some cache containers like these myself.

 

Today, however, I logged a cache with such a container which was painted army green. My friend who accompanied me isn't a geocacher and was along for the ride -- when he saw me pull the green pipe from it's hiding place he commented, "Good lord! The dadgum thing looks like a pipe bomb. Are you sure its safe?"

 

I laughed at his paranoia but quickly stopped. You know, it really did look like a piece of army surplus ordinance. Beign so close to the game I hadn't really thought of it from a non-cacher's point of view before.

 

The thing did look very mechanical/dangerous even though it was clearly marked as a "GEOCACHE - DO NOT REMOVE" on the side.

 

To make matters even more interesting this cache is in a hollow tree in a city setting. (Anyone logging it is partially visible by traffic on a very busy street about 100 feet away)

 

I was ready to dismiss any concerns my friend had raised but now I can't shake the feeling that this is trouble waiting to happen.What would happen should someone not involved in geo-caching stumble upon it? I've heard rumors of bomb squads being summoned to blow up caches. Am I just being paranoid?

 

Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter/

 

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/26453_300.jpg

[+CacheCows]

Sensitivity certainly is much higher since 9/11, but keep in mind that many of these PVC caches existed both beofre and after 9/11. Sure, there is a risk of one being mistaken for a pipe bomb, but todate, out of the few caches found and destroyed by bomb squads, tupperware has been the most mis-identified.

 

Clear non-intimidating containers are probably the best bet, but if the short history of geocaching means anything, I don't think PVC is that great of a risk.

 

Of much greater risk, regardless of container type, is the placement. Put a cache where folks would consider it a risk, and you have the instant makings of a bomb scare. Take a suspecious container under a bridge, behind a building, next to railroad tracks, and compare it to the same container in the woods. The typical person would ask who would use a giant pipe bomb to blow up a tree?

 

Member:

[+Macro]

Yet another argument for my position that urban caches are more trouble than they are worth. This seems like a case where if the cache container was hidden miles out into the forest, the only person that would ever even know about it would be a geocacher. No one would accidentally wander about it, nor would anyone be watching a geocacher open it up and then re-hide it. This has been my problem lately with a lot of caches that in my opinion are just way too close to high traffic areas. I really dont enjoy geocaching when I know other people are watching me, it's just plain suspicous. This container type would never be a problem if it was hidden out in the middle of nowhere. If an urban cache is someone only option, go micro or virtual. I can just see it now, some idiot is going to stash an ammo can in a city, someone watching will freak out, and the only thing that explodes is geocaching, on the 5 o'clock news. Not exactly the kinda press we need.

 

The point....the container is fine as long as its clearly marked and well hidden....but putting something like that in an open area with onlookers..thats just inviting a problem.

[+jollybgood]

<

 

Good point. Like I said if it hadn't been for my friend's reaaction I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

 

I'm seriously thinking about making some PVC Pipe containers for future caches which is why I wanted to hear some opinions before doing so.

 

I'm still undecided. I like the PVC containers because they are so indestructable and way kewl. I've run across so many tupperware caches which have been destroyed and contents scattered by racoons or possums lately. It's this potential 'trash factor' which I think most state parks have a problem with. So the PVC pipe containers are appealing to me for this reason. They certainly have no impact on the environment.

 

My friend's paranoia, however gives me reason to hold off on this approach for the time being.

 

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/26453_300.jpg

[+GeoVamp]

I just made 4 cache pods out of PVC pipe and plan to make more I love the stuff you can make it any size and any shape,you can paint it easy enough if you ruff up the surface first.As far as looking like a bomb I don't think they do like you guys said before why would some one want to blow up a tree or a bush.

 

I would follow my GPS to the gates of hell if it pointed that way.

[+Doppler]

Hi Jolly,

I recently posted similar concerns about placing caches in ammo cannisters and other non-transparent packages which might arouse suspicion or panic.

 

Folks who replied seemed to feel that since bomb squads don't take chances with mysterious packages, it really doesn't matter what you put your cache in -- if it's discovered by a nervous bystander, it will probably be blown up by the bomb squad. (The support for this argument was that a cache recently destroyed was in a tupperware container labelled "Geocaching.com").

 

However, I still feel that as Geocachers and citizens, we have an obligation to minimize these misunderstandings. If enough caches are mistaken for bombs, cities will eventually begin passing ordinances banning Geocaching activity.

 

My feeling is that caches over micro-cache size should never be placed in public areas or in "sensitive" areas -- near railroad tracks, airports, etc. That alone should reduce accidental discoveries of caches (and bomb squad interventions... as of yet, very few terrorists have shown an inclination to blow up squirrels and woodland creatures ).

 

As for containers, I still firmly believe that a munitions container or an object that looks like a pipe bomb is just begging to be blown up by the bomb squad, no matter where it's discovered.

 

That's my $.02!

 

-- Doppler

[+Doppler]

Hi Jolly,

I recently posted similar concerns about placing caches in ammo cannisters and other non-transparent packages which might arouse suspicion or panic.

 

Folks who replied seemed to feel that since bomb squads don't take chances with mysterious packages, it really doesn't matter what you put your cache in -- if it's discovered by a nervous bystander, it will probably be blown up by the bomb squad. (The support for this argument was that a cache recently destroyed was in a tupperware container labelled "Geocaching.com").

 

However, I still feel that as Geocachers and citizens, we have an obligation to minimize these misunderstandings. If enough caches are mistaken for bombs, cities will eventually begin passing ordinances banning Geocaching activity.

 

My feeling is that caches over micro-cache size should never be placed in public areas or in "sensitive" areas -- near railroad tracks, airports, etc. That alone should reduce accidental discoveries of caches (and bomb squad interventions... as of yet, very few terrorists have shown an inclination to blow up squirrels and woodland creatures ).

 

As for containers, I still firmly believe that a munitions container or an object that looks like a pipe bomb is just begging to be blown up by the bomb squad, no matter where it's discovered.

 

That's my $.02!

 

-- Doppler

[+Salvelinus]

Besides the security issues. I have found PVC pipe caches with screw on lids to be almost impossible to open in the Winter. One of my first finds was a 1.5 mile vertical hike up a mountain in late December. When I found the 4 inch PVC cache it was frozen shut! How frustrating is that! I ended up holding the end inside my jacket for 20 minutes until it thawed enough to open. Even then it wasn't easy.

[mcb]

First thing if you run into a stuck PVC clean out on a cache find yourself a nice stout fork in a tree and jam the square end of the cap in there and crank the lid off turning the container. This give you alot more torque.

 

As for a container if it is well lable that it is a geocache then I don't see the problem with PVC or ammo cans. It should say in big letters on it geocache. If someone is so nervous that they call the bomb squad even if the container is labled well then they were going to call no matter what the container looks like.

 

Later

mcb

[+sjs102]

I have two caches made from PVC pipe, and have been pretty satisfied with them. If you are thinking of making some yourself you might want to keep in mind the following:

1) They can be heavy to carry in. We learned to make sure they were short enough to fit into a backpack to make them easier to transport, and you don't get the weird looks walking in.

2) 6" gives a lot more space that 4" for putting stuff in the cache. We found that if you have to bow things like the log book to get it in the plastic bag tears sooner. Also, here, there are a lot of people who leave CDs in caches, and they just don't fit in the 4".

3) Make sure you glue the end pieces on well. We had to bring on of ours in after 6 months of thinking it was the rubber end cap that was leaking, and finally figured out it was the PVC cap on the other end.

We've really liked ours. They camoflage pretty well, and are unique. Have often thought it would be neat to fix one up with some sort of fake bark for a "log"...

[+Salvelinus]

Originally posted by mcb:

First thing if you run into a stuck PVC clean out on a cache find yourself a nice stout fork in a tree and jam the square end of the cap in there and crank the lid off turning the container. This give you alot more torque.

 

Never thought of that! One problem is that the cache I mentioned was located in a virgin hemlock forest! The nearest fork in any tree was 50 feet in the air!

[+Salvelinus]

Originally posted by mcb:

First thing if you run into a stuck PVC clean out on a cache find yourself a nice stout fork in a tree and jam the square end of the cap in there and crank the lid off turning the container. This give you alot more torque.

 

Never thought of that! One problem is that the cache I mentioned was located in a virgin hemlock forest! The nearest fork in any tree was 50 feet in the air!

[DnA+1]

I can see your concern. I don't see a problem, as long as the location is well out of plain sight, and not anywhere near inhabited areas.

[Czar of Ridgeland]

I think my cache is one of the two that Jolly B Good is referencing in his post. Most of the other poster's sentiments mirror mine. I was nervous bringing it from my car to the woods, but found a backpack to hide it. It certainly would look suspicious if discovered in an urban setting. Once in the woods though, only another geocacher is likely to find it. I have also had trouble with the test plug freezing. I have found that by banging the pipe against against a tree or the ground, you can get the rubber gasket to release. Aside from the limiting 4 inch diameter and the freezing problem, I like the indestructability of the cache.

[+Zephyrus]

Excellent ideal, some camouflage paint, put in walkabout land, hide it with just little showing. Ideal for the once a year Fools day!

[+urbo]

pvc pipe is used for pipe bombs. hmmm. i'm in the woods and i'm not a geocacher. i spot a sealed pvc pipe hidden somewhere. congratulations folks, you just dispatched your local police department and maybe a bomb squad. your tax dollars at work.

 

no pvc for me.

URBO

miami fl

[mcb]

Black pipe actually works better for making a good pipe bomb. The PVC burst strenght is not very high and the resulting shrapnal is not nearly as leathal that the shrapnal you get off steel.

 

Nonetheless PVC can look like a pipe bomb but if you if you use real large diameter pipe and pant it up real nice it won't even look like a piece of PVC. PVC is fine just don't make it look like a bomb.

 

mcb

[mcb]

Black pipe actually works better for making a good pipe bomb. The PVC burst strenght is not very high and the resulting shrapnal is not nearly as leathal that the shrapnal you get off steel.

 

Nonetheless PVC can look like a pipe bomb but if you if you use real large diameter pipe and pant it up real nice it won't even look like a piece of PVC. PVC is fine just don't make it look like a bomb.

 

mcb

[+GeoVamp]

a real good way to make sure a PVC pod will open and close easy is to take wax and grid it into the treads of the lid and work it back and forth till you can tighted the lid almost all the way with out it sticking.You can also in your post to remind people not to over tighten the lids.

 

I would follow my GPS to the gates of hell if it pointed that way.

[+KD7MXI]

THERE ONLY DANGEROUSE IF COPS SEE THEM

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI

[+KD7MXI]

THERE ONLY DANGEROUSE IF COPS SEE THEM

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI

[+jollybgood]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Czar of Ridgeland:

I think my cache is one of the two that Jolly B Good is referencing in his post.

---

 

Yes it was one of the first PVC caches I encountered (excellent cache by the way).

 

But I really had no concerns when I saw yours. In fact first thing that struck me was, "Kewl! I need to make some of these myself!" Yours would be next to impossible for anyone to find by accident. (unless they are in the habit of getting down on their hands and knees and looking up inside hollow trees -- )

 

It was only after my friend made his observation the other day at a different cache in a little more public setting that I began to wonder what would happen if someone stumbled across one.

 

I didn't mention the specific cache or person who placed it because that wasn't really the issue.

 

I was just curious to see how others felt about PVC pipe containers in general since it's been reported that at least once cache has been blown up by a bomb squad.

 

Sounds like there are those for and those against them.

 

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/26453_300.jpg

[+jollybgood]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Czar of Ridgeland:

I think my cache is one of the two that Jolly B Good is referencing in his post.

---

 

Yes it was one of the first PVC caches I encountered (excellent cache by the way).

 

But I really had no concerns when I saw yours. In fact first thing that struck me was, "Kewl! I need to make some of these myself!" Yours would be next to impossible for anyone to find by accident. (unless they are in the habit of getting down on their hands and knees and looking up inside hollow trees -- )

 

It was only after my friend made his observation the other day at a different cache in a little more public setting that I began to wonder what would happen if someone stumbled across one.

 

I didn't mention the specific cache or person who placed it because that wasn't really the issue.

 

I was just curious to see how others felt about PVC pipe containers in general since it's been reported that at least once cache has been blown up by a bomb squad.

 

Sounds like there are those for and those against them.

 

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/26453_300.jpg

[Hiker Kit]

Labeling a container with the word "GeoCache" is going to be meaningless to most. I just found out about this sport a couple months ago, I'd never heard the word before that. And, if people think something might be a bomb, they're going to call the cops and not spend a ton of time pouring over the device for clues or labels. Would you handle some random device if you suspected it might contain a bomb?

 

I said it in another thread - strange people placing strange packages in public places is sure to be noticed, and it is sure to cause people concern. And rightfully so!

 

Bomb squads cost money, and everytime a bomb squad gets sent out - it's money out of the taxpayer's pocketbook. If it becomes a problem (I'm not saying it is a problem yet), eventually somebody will pass an ordinance and then the fun is over.

 

I don't think the "geocaching lobby" in any particular city is going to be strong enough to block legislation, so why not do some simple things to prevent it from happening? Many ideas have already been mentioned in this thread.

 

"We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane." --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[+Hawk-eye]

If everyone is going to complain about PVC caches ... I guess now you're going to tell me this cache ... slated for Afghanistan ... is a little over the top, or needs a new label ...

 

Or should I have used tupperware

 

 

[+Hawk-eye]

If everyone is going to complain about PVC caches ... I guess now you're going to tell me this cache ... slated for Afghanistan ... is a little over the top, or needs a new label ...

 

Or should I have used tupperware

 

 

[Geo Quest]

See, that's the problem with most people. They don't use their brain, or they go off half-cocked. Think. If you were going to plant a bomb what kind of container would you use? Somthing military-looking? Something bomb-like? No. You would pack your bomb into a suitcase or sew it into a stuffed animal. You would put it in the trunk of a car. What would you blow up? A hollow tree? A stump in the forest? I think not. If we could count on the general population to think then perhaps PVC would not be so controversial on these boards. A sealed PVC container in the woods would not scare me (even before I knew about geocaching). But then again, I think before I act.

 

[Hiker Kit]

quote:

---

A sealed PVC container in the woods would not scare me (even before I knew about geocaching). But then again, I think before I act.

---

 

No, and a sealed PVC container in the woods would not scare me either. Not one bit. But these containers aren't controvertial in woodland areas - people seem to be most concerned about containers in urban areas.

 

I'm a school administrator by trade. If I saw any stranger depositing a strange package very close to my building or to one of our playgrounds, frankly I'd be concerned. I'd also be tempted to not screw around with it until professionals could be called in to look at it. I'm certainly not going to go poking at it with a stick to see if it has a label or a phone number on it.

 

Maybe it's not a bomb, but maybe it is. Schools have bomb scares, public buildings get bombed. It's a fact of life. It may not happen often, but why take chances when there are lives at stake. When people are responsible for safe guarding the lives of others, I think they can be excused for having the occasional "knee-jerk reaction".

 

Not every school administrator or building supervisor knows every possible form that a bomb might take.

 

The GeoCaching community needs to not take an adversarial position when it comes to this issue - we need to work out ways to deal with officials that allows us to practice our sport in away that makes no one feel threatened.

 

And frankly, it's OUR responsibility to do that, and to bend over backwards to do it. WE are the strange people placing strange packages all over the world.

 

"We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane." --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[mcb]

I love that picture Hawk-eye.

 

mcb

[Yunaderis]

hehe....thats the best cache ever...too bad its in a million different spots..LOL

[+ProStreet]

I am fairly new at caching. I wanted to place a cache that is a little different than all the others out there. I decider to place on in a local lake in about 10 to 15 feet of water, so you would have to snorkel down to get it. I walked around the local hardware store looking for a container that would work. When I saw the PVC pipe I knew I found my container. I made the container out of 4" pipe and a cap and test plug. And I thought I made a cache can that no one else had made. I guess I wasn't the first to think of using PVC!

[+Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcb:

I love that picture Hawk-eye.

 

mcb

---

 

Thanks ... sometimes I have just a little too much time on my hands

 

[+Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcb:

I love that picture Hawk-eye.

 

mcb

---

 

Thanks ... sometimes I have just a little too much time on my hands

 

[wmas1960]

I am new here and just saw your posts about the difficulty with PVC fittings and opening them. I have, while thinking of some cache ideas, thought that using PVC was a natural due to it's durability, longevity and the ability of a builder to determine size. Also, ammo boxes seem a good choice but I would be a little conserned for rusting and the seal on the lid wearing out and a box starting to leak. In any case though I would put contents into ziplocks in either type of container. Anyways, regarding your problem, I would suggest carrying a good lightweight wrench with you. You could measure the square nub on the clean out and cut a similar square into a piece of wood or metal, Maybe aluminum. Or carry a large crescent wrench. You probably don't need much other than the ability to get enough offset from the cap to give you some leverage. Of course a lot would depend on how hard the previous cacher tightened it.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by smoochnme:

Originally posted by mcb:

First thing if you run into a stuck PVC clean out on a cache find yourself a nice stout fork in a tree and jam the square end of the cap in there and crank the lid off turning the container. This give you alot more torque.

 

Never thought of that! One problem is that the cache I mentioned was located in a virgin hemlock forest! The nearest fork in any tree was 50 feet in the air!

---

[wmas1960]

I am new here and just saw your posts about the difficulty with PVC fittings and opening them. I have, while thinking of some cache ideas, thought that using PVC was a natural due to it's durability, longevity and the ability of a builder to determine size. Also, ammo boxes seem a good choice but I would be a little conserned for rusting and the seal on the lid wearing out and a box starting to leak. In any case though I would put contents into ziplocks in either type of container. Anyways, regarding your problem, I would suggest carrying a good lightweight wrench with you. You could measure the square nub on the clean out and cut a similar square into a piece of wood or metal, Maybe aluminum. Or carry a large crescent wrench. You probably don't need much other than the ability to get enough offset from the cap to give you some leverage. Of course a lot would depend on how hard the previous cacher tightened it.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by smoochnme:

Originally posted by mcb:

First thing if you run into a stuck PVC clean out on a cache find yourself a nice stout fork in a tree and jam the square end of the cap in there and crank the lid off turning the container. This give you alot more torque.

 

Never thought of that! One problem is that the cache I mentioned was located in a virgin hemlock forest! The nearest fork in any tree was 50 feet in the air!

---

[+culpc]

I figure that if you label the cache well it will probably survive. If, on the other hand, it is blown up by the bomb squad you will have a great story for the unusual forum!

 

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son!

[+culpc]

I figure that if you label the cache well it will probably survive. If, on the other hand, it is blown up by the bomb squad you will have a great story for the unusual forum!

 

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son!

[+Genius Loci]

I guess that lot's of folks like the PVC pipes for hides, but as a finder, I sure hope they don't get any more popular. Of the four or five that I've found, only one has been easy to open, and it had been recently placed. All of them were found in summertime; I can't imagine what it's like in winter if they're frozen.

 

A couple of weeks ago I found one that hadn't been visited for about 6 weeks. Even after completely unscrewing the wing nut, the rubber had stuck so tightly to the sides of the PVC that I couldn't release the plug without prying it off. So, A WRENCH IS NOT ALWAYS ENDUGH to get these suckers open, YOU NEED A SHARP EDGED TOOL TO PRY under the metal lip to break it free from the sides of the pipe.

 

Plus, I've poured water out of at least two of them so far (and they were sealed tight), so they are not as waterproof as some people imagine.

 

I love great new ideas as much as anyone, and inventing a better cache box is most certainly worth pursuing. However, my experiences with these types of containers hasn't been very positive. Now, when I find one of these PVC boxes, I silently curse.

 

Although it hasn't happened to me yet, it would be a real bummer to go on a hunt, find the stash, and not be able to open the box - and I think this is a definite possibility with the PVC boxes. Anyway, if people start using a lot of these, I hope they'll at least mention that fact in the description so we'll all know to bring along tools to open them. Oh - and lube the end up with a load of Vaseline before you jam it in and screw it down, will 'ya please?

 

- Genius Loci ('the guardian spirit of a place')

[wmas1960]

I came accross this old thread while researching the idea of using PVC. I was thinking of this as a project to work on as I get into this hobby.

 

It is good and interesting to hear about peoples first hand experiences with these types of containers. Your description though does not seem familiar to the parts that I had been looking at when I was at Home Depot. I understand there are a couple of different types of ends that you can put on these caches. Might be something to consider. I was looking at the screw on cleanout caps that some say leak. You might be talking about another type that seals water tight but it sounds that maybe there is an issue with a vaccum. Maybe as the cache heats and cools it creates negative pressure inside and a vaccum inside that is causing people to have difficulty? That would make the screw cap better, but not if it is going to leak. What to do, what to do? Maybe the airtight cap but some sort of valve that can be opened to equalize pressure inside???? But then you can't be certain that finders will remember to close the valve. Regarding leaking, I did read one post that said that one builder found that his cache leaked, not because of the cap(s) on it but because the ends and other parts were not glued properly. I was thinking that maybe it would be best to use some silicone aquarium sealer in addition to glue on all the parts. Like caulking a bathtub.

 

Before actually putting one in the field I might have to make a couple prototypes and see how they perform. Glue and assemble them and submerge them in a bathtub and see if they leak overnight. Maybe I can find out where the problem(s) exist. Then decide if they are worth while.

 

Like one person said in a thread I was reading, Sometimes building the cache can be as much fun as placing it.

 

Thanks for your assistance. Any other comments from you or from others is always appreciated.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Genius Loci:

I guess that lot's of folks like the PVC pipes for hides, but as a finder, I sure hope they don't get any more popular. Of the four or five that I've found, only one has been easy to open, and it had been recently placed. All of them were found in summertime; I can't imagine what it's like in winter if they're frozen.

 

A couple of weeks ago I found one that hadn't been visited for about 6 weeks. Even after completely unscrewing the wing nut, the rubber had stuck so tightly to the sides of the PVC that I couldn't release the plug without prying it off. So, A WRENCH IS NOT ALWAYS ENDUGH to get these suckers open, YOU NEED A SHARP EDGED TOOL TO PRY under the metal lip to break it free from the sides of the pipe.

 

Plus, I've poured water out of at least two of them so far (and they were sealed tight), so they are not as waterproof as some people imagine.

 

I love great new ideas as much as anyone, and inventing a better cache box is most certainly worth pursuing. However, my experiences with these types of containers hasn't been very positive. Now, when I find one of these PVC boxes, I silently curse.

 

Although it hasn't happened to me yet, it would be a real bummer to go on a hunt, find the stash, and not be able to open the box - and I think this is a definite possibility with the PVC boxes. Anyway, if people start using a lot of these, I hope they'll at least mention that fact in the description so we'll all know to bring along tools to open them. Oh - and lube the end up with a load of Vaseline before you jam it in and screw it down, will 'ya please?

 

- Genius Loci ('the guardian spirit of a place')

---

[+Markwell]

I've been giving this some thought as well...

 

I did some PVC tube markers and used the caulk on one end and the screw cap on the other. The screw cap did leak on the one that tried to escape down the river (a cacher found it on a log jam).

 

What about caulking one end, and imitating an ammo box lid on the other. Is there a PVC connector that you could have some sort of pull-down locking mechanism instead of an inside pressure based seal? Bad drawing, but the traditional inner pressure seal is on left, and my idea is on the right...

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocachers

[+Zartimus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Markwell:

What about caulking one end, and imitating an ammo box lid on the other. Is there a PVC connector that you could have some sort of pull-down locking mechanism instead of an inside pressure based seal?

http://www.chicagogeocaching.com

 

That is cool. I use the PVC containers with the square plug and was thinking of making some wrench-like device to attach to aid in twisting off the container.

 

[+snoboardz]

I have just finished reading all the posts regarding the recent concerns of using PVC containers as caches. My first reaction to all this was to just say "Forget Geocaching all together". Score another point for the left-winged, liberal idealists of our world and ban geocaching due to it's ability to allow people to be creative and have fun. Why? Because some of the containers people are using may too closely resemble a pipe bomb. I like what someone else had posted saying that if someone were going to execute an act of malice by planting a bomb somewhere would they really use something that people would possibly misconstrue as a bomb? I think not. How many of us before 9/11 looked at a Boeing 757 and said "Wow, look at that flying missle!" I think I make my point. I think it is safe to say that I am not alone by having the thought cross my mind while out caching that someone could easily use any of the items we commonly associate with Geocaching containers to set up some sort of booby trap that could explode and cause harm to the first person who races out to be the first to find a newly planted cache. The possibility does exist that some sick individual could take pleasure in doing this. I fear this happening more than I do someone not involved in the hobby mistaking a container as an explosive device and calling the bomb squad. I just hope it never happens. We have terror to blame for taking away or forever altering many of the things we once considered normal and/or safe activities. Let's not allow it take Geocaching away from us too. I think if we all just use common sense and good judgement that Geocaching will continue to grow and thrive as it has. Thanks for listening.

 

Absolute knowledge is knowing that you know absolutely nothing.

[+Criminal]

I agree with snoboardz on this issue. See the threads at http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=4680953425

 

Caught a wee bit of heat for it too.....

 

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What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

[wmas1960]

quote:

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I am not alone by having the thought cross my mind while out caching that someone could easily use any of the items we commonly associate with Geocaching containers to set up some sort of booby trap that could explode and cause harm to the first person who races out to be the first to find a newly planted cache. The possibility does exist that some sick individual could take pleasure in doing this. I fear this happening more than I do someone not involved in the hobby mistaking a container as an explosive device and calling the bomb squad. I just hope it never happens. We have terror to blame for taking away or forever altering many of the things we once considered normal and/or safe activities. Let's not allow it take Geocaching away from us too. I think if we all just use common sense and good judgement that Geocaching will continue to grow and thrive as it has. Thanks for listening.

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That is one of the reason that I am trying to work on perfecting the PVC route here. Living in a suburban area near a large major city, even our forests can be very heavily trafficed with bicycles, conoes, joggers... The chances are thus much greater that someone could stumble accross a cache not knowing what it is. With the current climate after 9/11 there seems to be more of a sensitivity on the parts of some regarding strange packages left lying around. You are correct that a properly placed AND LABELED cache is probably not going to be much of a fear but one of the subjects that got me thinking of this was the thread about not rehiding caches. I understand some finders just discard the cache on a nearby bridal or bicycle trail, nearby picnic table... With ammo boxes you can not see inside until after you have opened it. Therefore certain anxieties might exist by some when they confront these containers. Tupperware or Rubbermade may be transparent but many have reported about lids leaking or coming off or animals nawing their way through them... With PVC, you have a very durable container and can affix lids that do not casually come off. The downside though, again is you can't see in and some say the lids can seize up and leak. I am still thinking of the leaking problem and the seizing of the lid but I had a thought that you could put plexiglass in the bottom, glued in with aquarium sealer. That would than allow someone the ability to look inside and confirm that, like you mention, some nut didn't put something dangerous inside. Of course you may not ever be certain but at least you can have some idea. Properly labeled a cache like this could be done well. PVC does have an advantage that, since they are custom made, a creative builder could do almost anything they want.

[michianajones]

just keep putting the caches in whatever container you want. If someone is afraid it's a bomb, they'll call the bomb-aquad, who will try to detonate something that won't, because it's not a bomb, and the caller will look stupid. OF course you'll lose your cache...but if it's hidden well, and no one would be able to find it unless they had the coordinates I don't think you'd have to worry about being suspected of planting a bomb.

I just figure its a hazard of the hobby, and if someone does something stupid either by planting illegal substances or bombs in a cache it's a risk we take, just like anything else in life. There were people planting pipe-bombs at K-marts in my area, no one banned shopping.

[Rigour]

OK, I have hesitated mentioning this because I didn't want to give anyone the idea.

 

Maybe it's my job talking but one of the key issues for me in this is how the public will perceive this. Sooner or later there will be a problem. For example:

 

1. Someone will be out caching (sp?) and someone will shoot them.

 

2. A cache will be misidentified and blown up in a spectacular film-at-11 kind of way.

 

3. Someone will plant a bomb and write www.geocaching.com on it as a misdirection, and instantly the world will hear about it in a bad way.

 

When that happens, we will need "spin control" in a big way and very fast. The vast majority of the public knows nothing about this hobby and right away they'll be wondering if geocaching.com is some huge anti-capitalist radical environmental group dedicated to the violent overthrow of society and communicating through some sort of secret devices and websites.

 

When that happens, we'll want:

1. well recognized and responsible spokespeople (not just some local untrained afficianado)

2. a clear code of conduct that will demonstrate that we are responsible and effective in self-policing, and

3. third-party support from law-enforcement officials

 

Why? Because if the story gets written in ignorance, we'll never dispel the myths it creates. Heck, every time I mention Dungeons and Dragons there are still people that indicate by their response that what they "know" about it is that it's occult and that people go insane because of it and get lost in steam tunnels.

 

Why should we care? Because the wrong impression of this hobby will attract the wrong sort of people, discourage the right sort of people, and lead to unhelpful intervention by law-making authorities.

 

I think the hobby is in good hands at a leadership level, but it helps to remember that we are all stewards of its image.

 

Above all, never make the classic Public Relations blunder of assuming that the truth will come out or that both sides of a story will be heard. Media coverage is like quick-drying cement - once an image hardens, it is almost impossible to change it - even if it's wildly inaccurate.

 

I give for example Gary Condit. There is of course now a sizeable case to be made that he knew absolutely nothing about and had nothing to do with Chandra Levy's death. Try running him for dogcatcher and see what happens.

 

[This message was edited by Rigour on July 29, 2002 at 12:13 PM.]

[+GeoManhattan]

I'm surprised no one mentioned clear PVC tubing yet. Wouldn't that address a lot of the issues (except for the leak/tight cap factor)?

 

First Clear PVC link I found this link along with a bunch more on Google.

[wmas1960]

For the cost associated with the production of the cache you will at least have one hell of a story to tell your grandchildren about if some nut had the police blow up your cache.

 

Like you said though, if you didn't put anything illegal or inapropriate in the cache and had it labeled well and hidden in a permitted area you should have nothing to worry about. One good thing about these logs, here on geocaching.com is that there is also a documentation of what was in the cache and when. If anything ever is put in by someone who finds a cache a timeline can be established. If the cache is a popular one that is visited more frequently that timeline would be better. Of course you can't depend on some deviant person putting a log entry online. Althoug, if the log in the cache remains reasonably in tact more info can be found there. Especially if the subject were to be the type that couldn't resist putting some nutso comment in the log book.

 

I don't worry about it at all other than as a potential cache placer, I would make sure that my caches are adequately labeled. Also, I think it is probably a good idea to have a transparant bottom so anyone who is afraid to open it could look inside to eleviate some of their anxiety. Caching should be fun. Any relief we can provide for those who have concerns will only make it better. Even if those concerns are somewhat unfounded.

 

quote:

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Originally posted by michianajones:

just keep putting the caches in whatever container you want. If someone is afraid it's a bomb, they'll call the bomb-aquad, who will try to detonate something that won't, because it's not a bomb, and the caller will look stupid. OF course you'll lose your cache...but if it's hidden well, and no one would be able to find it unless they had the coordinates I don't think you'd have to worry about being suspected of planting a bomb.

I just figure its a hazard of the hobby, and if someone does something stupid either by planting illegal substances or bombs in a cache it's a risk we take, just like anything else in life. There were people planting pipe-bombs at K-marts in my area, no one banned shopping.

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[wmas1960]

In the research that I have done I did hear about it and saw a couple links on Google that mentioned it. However didn't notice anyplace that sells it to consumers. I think the only places I saw sold to industry and to labs etc. I believe that I saw it in some colors as well. Transparant but Blue and Yellow come to mind. I might have even seen it in Red. I get the impression that the main applications for this is for monitoring the flow of chemicals through a plant through color coded piping .

 

As for the leaky lid problem I may have discovered a solution to that today. There is a company called Genova, maybe others make them as well, that makes a clean out fitting that, instead of fitting over the end of the pipe, fits into a standard coupling (4" to 4", 6" to 6"). That requires an extra part and about another 2 or 4 bucks depending on what size pipe you are using. Also it is a little more expensive than the standard screw cover clean out. About $6 instead of maybe $4. The deal with this cap is that the threads do not run as deep into the pipe as the others and there is a little edge in the bottom of the fitting. Assuming you could find a piece of rubber and cut it to fit, find an O-Ring or a washer or rubber gasket, you could put something in the bottom of the fitting that would create a seal when the cap is screwed down. You might even be able to use some silicone and make a bead around that edge. Let it dry and see if that will stay put and seal when the cap is tightened. You may have to repair or replace the seal from time to time. Looking at some catalog pages from Genova's web catalog the part numbers are 71659 for 6" (you will also need to buy a screw in cap) 71640 for the 4" (comes with the cap) 71630 3" (also comes with the cap).

 

The only thing that would be a down side to the clear PVC is that some might prefer to paint their caches anyways thus defeating the purpose. However a clear end cap for the bottom would be very effective for my ideas. Would save me from the possible leaks from gluing in some plexiglass. I suppose you could always mask off a window on one side of the tube and then paint over the rest. That would really help someone see inside.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I, for one, am going to keep looking to see if I can find it somewhere and give it a look.

 

quote:

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Originally posted by GeoManhattan:

I'm surprised no one mentioned clear PVC tubing yet. Wouldn't that address a lot of the issues (except for the leak/tight cap factor)?

 

http://www.harvel.com/clear.html I found this link along with a bunch more on Google.

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