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Poor judgement/behavior by a cacher

Kealia

By Kealia
in General geocaching topics

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res2100

+res2100

Posted
Posted

I think we now all understand the whole picture here and also see that it is coming to closure very quickly and everyone will hopefully be happy, and maybe even learn something.

 

I once had another cache leave a moving cache in another cache for me, because they beat me to it, but it was basically my responsibility to get to that cache and find it before anyone else...luckily I was quick enough to get it as 2 people went later in the day.

 

It was an interesting situation and thanks for further explianing it.

 

http://ca.geocities.com/geocachingcanada

http://ca.geocities.com/rsab2100/pond.html

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bthomas

+bthomas

Posted
Posted

Why was the coin left? Perhaps this wasn't a tragedy afterall, just a comedy of errors. Or random circumstances.

 

The geocoin in question was removed from an urban cache and sequentially traded amongst cachers during an evening caching mini-marathon in San Francisco. A few days later, because I was slack when my turn came up to web log the grab from one of the marathon caches, another cacher missed the opportunity to find it.

 

Sidebar, just to make this more confusing... we pulled different unlogged USA geocoin out of the actual cache in question (GCE06C). That coin came from a Texas visitor and wasn't logged to the cache for about 5 days. Part of my slackness on the first geocoin was I was waiting one more day for the other one to get post-date logged by it's owner. Slackness on my part, but I was still bogged down web logging a 50-cache marathon from Sunday. I try to operate at 99%, and this was 1 outta 400 for bugs and coins.

 

Anyways, when I saw a log about the geocoin being missed, the next day I drove out and dropped it into that cacher's San Francisco micro, GCE06C. I put a note in a mini ziplock asking that it be left for her. On the webpage, I just edited the log of my previous visit to do the drop. Summary: In the time frame, there were two diferent USA geocoins, there or not there, not logged or finally logged. And also a shiny non-system Canadian faux-geocoin.

 

So that's the front end. Then there was the stuff in the middle, and then there were the 2 pages of commentary. So, now is it finally time to go out and geocache?

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Sagefox

+Sagefox

Posted
Posted

I am the one who took the coin. I just found this thread as I am not a forum regular. Too bad I didn't see it earlier.

 

Interesting how far people can take a ball and run with it. I hope some of you are still watching this thread so you can read "the other side".

 

Truly, as noted above, two mistakes I made were: 1. Not thinking clearly enough to realize that all I needed was the coin tracking number to log the find (we'd been outside all day in 90+ degree weather and this is the first coin I've found other than by pre-arrangement), and 2. Exposing my personal dilemma about the coin's circumstances in a poorly written post. (Is the message here "don't ever be honest" O.K., I'll never let that happen again.)

 

All logical and rational interpretation of the unedited posts would have led anyone to believe that two coins, including the G2, had been sitting in this cache for one week including all day Saturday, the day we picked it up. The unedited coin posts for Sept 8 appear to contain misleading information. It is likely that Woof! and bthomas were referring to one and the same coin and did not actually leave two separate coins on that day. This can be assumed from a later clarifying post by bfthomas wherein he notes he actually placed the G2 on the 13th just two hours before we got there.

 

I assumed that the coin, which was clearly labeled - Save for Xxxx – was intended to be a drop off/pick up which appears to be common with coins. I also interpreted the five day delay to mean that Xxxx might not be all that interested. Also projected that the next cacher to come along will make the same assumptions and take the coin and I will have missed a chance to add that cool and, yes, coveted little coin badge to our profile page. After re-reading the posts and agonizing over this for 15 minutes I decided to take it and sort it out after we got home.

 

Another part of geocaching I like is email comm. with other cachers to sort out travel bug problems, like picking up a TB in Portland, Or. and finding out when you arrive in Las Vegas that it was intended to stay in Portland. (No instruction card attached.) There are lots of interesting and fun ways to solve the problem that can result in interesting and fun communication with other cachers.

 

Woof! and bthomas can attest that simultaneously with my logging of the cache and coin finds Sunday night I emailed each of them a note, it not being clear at the time who placed the G2.

 

The note posed the question: If it was you (who placed the coin) and you really want Geocoin #2 to get to that specific person, I can make arrangements to mail it to her at a 3rd party address (Mailboxes,Etc or something like that.) Just couldn't pass it up but we want the Universe to be back in balance. If is not important we will place it in the Santa Rosa area or in a new cache we will be placing soon. The receiver's cache name was not in the Ziploc or I would have emailed her directly.

 

I hate that the term Outside The Box is so overworked but I sometimes geocache that way. This is a little farther outside than I've ever been before and it is a bit scary out here all by myself.

 

The entire comedy (tragedy?) of errors centers around it appearing to me that the coin was sitting there out of apathy or that the placer did not properly communicate with the intended receiver. The later was not true in this case but if it had been they would have paid for it only by a delay of a few days mail time.

 

After reading through the above two pages I have lost all resolve to defend my five day apathy rule, which we informally made up on that hot afternoon. For conceiving that ill-advised rule I throw myself prostrate before this court. I don't believe I'll be using it again because apathy in this case turned out to be unclear and missing log entries.

 

I can't imagine a circumstance where I would ever take any other type of trade object from a cache that was clearly marked for someone else but travel bugs and geocoins are primarily intended to be CIRCULATED.

 

Maybe subjects for other topics include whether, or not, caches should be used as post office boxes and how much time a coveted item, meant to be circulated, should be left in a cache.

 

I have deleted everything I entered on the Wake Up cache page including our find log because it was looking too much like a forum there and my posts tend to be lengthy. I had previously posted an apology on that page and twice privately apologized to the recipient.

 

We have never intentionally harmed another cacher and never will. Can't promise that I won't **** someone off but we play the game the way it is generally accepted that it be played.

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seneca

+seneca

Posted
Posted

A lapse in judgement can sometimes be excused. It all depends on how one goes about setting things right. Looks like you are on the right track Sagefox. The price of postage is a very cheap solution in this circumstance.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

Posted
Posted

I never doubted you would make things right. I knew the glass was half full. Unfortunately mob mentality usually generates a couple dozen insults before the accused gets to tell their side of the story.

 

Oh, and one more thing...

 

quote:
Originally posted by Team Sagefox:

For conceiving that ill-advised rule I throw myself prostrate before this court.

 

You forgot the word "kangaroo" before the word "court" in this sentence. icon_smile.gif

 

Pan

 

Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums.

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Quest:

Am I the only one who finds it disturbing that there are people policing the activities of fellow geocachers and then trashing them on the forums?

Ironic, doesn't your post above mimic the behavior you denouce?

 

Maybe not. Regardless, unlike Tigger, you are not the only one.

 

Pan

 

Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums.

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joefrog

+joefrog

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:

You know, I was thinking, I've never had a Geocoin... Boy would I like to have a Geocoin, even if only temporarily...

 

Anyone want to send one my way through the cache-mail system???

 

I just picked one up yesterday from a local cache. I'll see if I can't direct it south!

 

Joel (joefrog)

 

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for ye are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"

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Kealia

+Kealia

Posted
  • Author
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Quest:

Am I the only one who finds it disturbing that there are people policing the activities of fellow geocachers and then trashing them on the forums?

 

Hey, if I see something wrong I call somebody on it. I happened to be watching the cache because there was a coin in it and I wanted to grab it, too. When I read the post it was clearly the wrong thing to do. I exchanged a few emails with the intended recipient and she was very upset with the turn of events.

I'm not out looking for toruble or to cause trouble for anybody but I don't turn away when something is wrong either.

 

The only ones who should be worried are those who are doing something blatently wrong.

 

FYI to all. There is still only a small fraction of what really happened here. The rest was handled via email and I decided to let it go so as to let the topic of discussion die here. I do not take the pack mentality nor do I rush to conclusions about something I've seen or heard.

 

'nuff said.

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Sagefox

+Sagefox

Posted
Posted

O.K. Here is all the associated email. Let the court be the judge.

 

User bthomas has been emailed with the following message:

 

bthomas,

 

Not sure if you or Woof! left Geocoin # 2 at the Wake Up cache.

 

If it was you and you really want Geocoin #2 to get to that specific person, don't remember her name (Xxxxxxx?), I can make arrangements to mail it to her at a 3rd party address (Mailboxes,Etc or something like that.) Just couldn't pass it up but we want the Universe to be back in balance.

 

It if is not important we will place it in the Santa Rosa area or in a new cache we will be placing soon.

 

I sent this message to Woof! also.

 

Ed at Team Sagefox

 

User Gorak has contacted you with the following message:

 

Hi Sagefox,

 

I'm sure by now you have recieved a ton of email from others and are aware of the controversy you created by taking the Geocoin destined for Frankenlurch. Please add my name to the list of people who believe you exercised poor judgement and acted hastily. I truly believe you should ensure that Frankenlurch recieves the Geocoin in question and that you offer him a very sincere, if not public, apology. In the end I'm sure you'll do the right thing.

 

Best regards,

Gorak

 

User Kealia has contacted you with the following message:

 

While I am in no way the 'cache police' your recent post on the "Wake Up" cache in San Francisco made me contact you.

 

In short, I would agree whole-heartedly with Frankenlurch that what you did was wrong. Your rationale of "..but I really wanted it.." is what I would expect to hear from a child, not from an adult (or parent nontheless). I hope that your son was not with you when you made this choice=

 

User Frankenlurch has contacted you with the following message:

 

Hello,

I was very disappointed and upset at your taking the coin that Xxx had left for me. I posted a log on the cache page. Well, Xxx is very generous, and suggested that maybe you didn't see the note (although you said right in your log that you did), and that you were willing to snail mail the coin down here. Is that true? He said that I should contact you. So, in hopes that you do want to bring harmony about, and because Xxx is very sweet and has faith in people, I'm asking. Please let me know if you are indeed willing to do that and I'll send you an address.

Thank you,

Xxxx (Frankenlurch)

 

My response to frankenlurch:

 

Yes, in fact my offer to mail the coin to you went out simultneoulsy with my post to your cache. It was never our intention that the coin would be denied to you if it was a solid intention of the placer that it get to you. Your geocaching name was not in the ziplock or I would have emailed you directly. I wanted to log the coin as a find - which I did find - and which I have logged, so now it is free to get back to you.

 

The confusing part for me was the five day delay. I have traded objects with cachers on a few occasions but we completed the transactions in less than 24 hours and the items were far less valuable. I have also recently received geocoins from a cacher who really wanted me to be able to log them but we made arrangements for immediate pick up. We knew they wouldn't last 24 hours in the Seattle area. Perhaps the heat wave slowed down the action last week.

 

I have also seen people put a lot of effort into these hand-offs and then the recipient doesn't show up for the pick up. We couldn't tell if you were really interested. In any event I wasn't worried about breaking any written or unwritten geocaching tenet because while it is in my care it can't wander off in the hands of others. Had you or Xxx not responded I would have resorted to one of the previous methods of atoning for my sin.

 

As I offered to Xxx, you can send me a third party address if it would make you feel more comfortable. I always make this offer to people we mail wayward geocaching objects to.

 

Anyway... I am sorry that I put you and others through this turmoil. We liked your cache and it's cool hiding place. My wife only makes it to about 10% of our posted finds but she is most often the finder when we are together. We tackled this one as a team and she "just happened" to pick the correct side.

 

Ed Mckinley - Team Sagefox

 

Public apology posted on the cache page:

 

I do sincerely apologize for the turmoil I have caused with this coin.

 

Woof response to my email:

 

I'm really not sure what the problem is with the geocoin. I think bthomas was the one who left it there, did he not log it in? Anywho, I am also unaware of there being a specific goal for the coin so feel free to move it anywhere you like.

 

Sorry for not being more helpful, I have very limited computer access for these types of things at the moment.

 

Woof!

Happy Holloween,

Xxily

 

Bthomas response to my email:

 

Ah! Xxxx missed that geocoin at SOMA Little Pictures, so I put it in her

cache, Wake Up. I've sent a copy of this msg to her, so perhaps she will

contact you. Thank you are attempting to achieve balance.

 

Xxx

 

Email from frankenlurch following my email to her:

 

Thank you for trying to make things right. I will give you my address to send it to so we can end this thing and go back to our passion of GeoCaching. Since you seem like a zen-like person, I will just make one suggestion to you. Take it or leave it. You make many, many excuses for actions you know to be wrong. Justification of something that is wrong is insulting to you as well as the person you do it to. Stop it. Listen to what you know is right and do it. From what I have read of your post so far - you seem much better than that.

ok - I know you are trying to do the right thing and that is sooooo cool.

Peace, love and Geocaching forever.

Xxxx

 

Xxxxxxxx Street

San Francisco, Ca

 

My email response to frankenlurch’s email:

 

Thanks for the thoughts and comments but lets not get too carried away here. I have a sense of right thought and right actions to be sure and once in awhile actually accomplish them. I don't feel wrong about taking the coin but do feel bad about causing people pain. In that regard it was a bad decision on my part.

 

While I have never been faced with this situation before and hope not to be in the future, if I do see something this unique (and this coveted in the geo community) I might take the same course of action. I might push the idle-in-the-cache factor up to 10 days instead of five but as long I know that I can and would willingly do what ever it takes, after the fact, to rectify the misdirection I don’t think I would be too worried. I would write the log entry differently though…

 

That's an idea - let me try it here and pretend I was clear enough to say it this way the first time:

 

"Dear Xxxx (your name was in the Ziploc). Team Sagefox has temporarily rerouted your geocoin. It is just too special to be sitting here alone for 5 days, susceptible to harm and I have not, as yet, been able to find one of these to log. It will be spending a few days on a short holiday on the Northcoast. Please email an address to me (not your own) so I can mail it to you."

 

Oh well, that was then and this is now. It is interesting to me to occasionally have something out of the ordinary happen.

 

Anyway… It will go out in today’s mail.

 

Frankenlurch’s

 

Thanks Ed,

Xxxx

 

Now I think - good idea, revise the log to reduce future yapping.

 

Revised my cache find log:

 

Found this cache walking back from Barry bonds 654th home run and Pac Bell's 31st splash hit in McCovey Cove.

Took the geocoin intended for another cacher who's cache name was not available at the time of our find or our original web entry. It has been in this container for five days including most of Saturday. That is too long for something this special and coveted to be sitting in a cache.

Emailed both of the previous coin placers simultaneously with posting this find that if the coin is really intended for this person and they really want it we will mail it to them at a 3rd party address, otherwise we will place it in a cache in Santa Rosa or in one of our new caches.

Posted two photos: Xxxx's coin and Barry’s homer

 

Frankenlurch seems to be o.k. with the revised entry – she posted this note:

 

September 16 by Frankenlurch (157 found)

Nice editing job to your post Team Sagefox!

 

Now it starts to get interesting with this note posted by bthomas:

 

September 13 by bthomas (1570 found)

Point of clarification: Geocoin#2 was physically placed on 9/13 at 3pm, and logged on the cache page the next morning.

 

My next note posted to the cache page:

 

With Ben's recent note the Universe is now aligning itself again. This is starting to read like an Adrian Monk mystery.

 

We printed out the cache page on the 11th. At that exact point in time ShaneP and the GeoKids had NOT YET posted their find entry but apparently HAD posted the ShaneP V5 coin because it is listed in the travel bug position at the top right of our printed cache page. SP's find log was posted sometime after we printed our page.

 

Then later in the day on the 8th: ONE coin was removed from the cache by bt, the ShaneP V5. ONE Canadian coin was left in the cache by bt. ONE additional coin was left in the cache by Woof! – "Dropping a geocoin that hasn't been logged." We assumed this was Geocoin #2. That made the tally appear to be correct, TWO coins logged into the container – TWO coins found.

 

Our recollection is that there was no entry in the cache log book since the 8th. We could be wrong about this but we remarked at the time that no one had been here for five days. I suspect bt did not log the G2 coin in the tiny log book because the coin was in a bag clearly marked to be saved for Xxxx. He notified her shortly thereafter and she then rushed out to get it. A perfect geocoin handoff. Almost.

 

In retrospect I suspect that Woof!'s entry regarding leaving an unlogged geocoin was actually a reference to the coin bt left and not an additional coin. There should then have been only one coin in the container during the week until 3 pm on Saturday. If not, and if there were two coins in the cache at the close of day on the 8th, then we have another mystery on our hands and may God have mercy on our poor souls.

 

So now we can begin to close out this thread: The G2 coin was not five days musty but merely less than three hours in the cache. It was placed there 16 minutes prior to Bond's 654th home run as documented in our earlier photo. While Barry was trotting the bases with a slight grin Xxx was walking away from Wake Up with a self-knowing smile.

 

We would not have taken the G2 coin if we had known it was less than five days old. We specifically decided at the site that 5 was our magic number. We did not take the Canadian coin because we already have two of them that we have not yet placed. I was hoping to use them as bait in new caches in the Santa Rosa area but I am willing to mail them to any of the aggrieved parties in this matter. And finally, the G2 is, by now, in or south of the North Bay Mail Sorting Facility on its way to Xxxx.

 

Too much excitement for one cache. I guess Team Sagefox will just keep to the north side of the Golden Gate where we know the ropes and our name is not equated with mud.

 

then

 

Frankenlurch has logged a cache on your watch list (Wake Up!). You can visit the cache at the following link: User comments:

 

Okay, final note, and then we'll let this whole thing lie. I believe that the ORIGINAL post from Team Sagefox should be included as a part of this whole history. Because it was a part, and a big part, of the whole thing. So this is what the original post said BEFORE it was edited:

 

original post is at the head of this topic – I'm too embarrassed by it to reproduce it again here

 

So, with that posted, all I can say is that it's not nice, or in the spirit of what Geocaching is all about, to covet items in caches. It's greed and it's wrong.

 

End of subject.

 

I responded to frankenlurch's post with an email to her

 

I truly am sorry that I hurt you. I made an error in judgment.

 

Ed

 

Reply from frankenlurch

 

Thank you, I truly do appreciate that very much.

 

Xxxx

 

p.s. It arrived today, thank you.

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Sagefox

+Sagefox

Posted
Posted

Before I get in trouble at home I'd better clarify that Spark has been present at more like 25% of our finds. This monster has tentacles reaching everywhere - even my work is suffering from this diversion. Think I'm going to swear off geocoins and all travel bugs without instruction tags. Maybe change our cache name to TNLN.

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hikemeister

+hikemeister

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Kealia:

I'm in total agreement that this situation has been put to rest.

 

As far as I'm concerned this thread can be locked down as the subject has been discussed ad naseum.

 

I agree, but really need to ask one last question -- can I please have that coin?

 

Please, please can I have it?

 

I never have had a geocoin. You could send it to any of my caches in the Jupiter Florida area and I will look for it and pick it up.

 

icon_razz.gif

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Wienerdog

+Wienerdog

Posted
Posted

OH MY GOSH!

 

This is disguisting.

 

I happen to know Sagefox very well. I know what kind of person he is. He is honest and truthful. Did any of you take the time to see how much he contributed to the sport. The number of HIDES he has placed for other people's enjoyment. He has even gone to the extent of removing caches if he thinks they were in anyway dangerous to the public. Like having to turn around on a road or something. Always concerned for others. That's how much he cares. I have been to so many caches, not talking of his, that are truly on the edge. No where near what he has pulled.

 

So... in a moment of wonder he took a coin. Maybe that was a mistake. I don't really know. But I can tell you from knowing him, he thought about it in no time tried to make things right. It took an honest man to put himself forward like that.

 

All you gruesome people that have been B******G and complaining. How many caches have you found or placed. I can just guess without even looking, that there probably aren't too many. You spend more time on the forums than looking or hiding caches!

 

We have a word for people like you that spend their lives on the forums wrecking havoc. Not geocachers. It's called FORUM SCUM. Very easy to spot.

 

You can reply to me and whatever you say won't effect me. Only those that I highly regard as serious geocachers and friends matter.

 

Sagefox...there are so many positive threads out there. You may have to search a bit. Don't let yourself be subjected to these kinds of people. They don't count.

 

You are far above them. Remember your little gifts? The 'Mind your P's&Q's' hand made by you? Fun little flys in tiny bags. Cool calling cards that people want to get their hands on. The wonderful things you put in caches, putting more in without taking anything out. And the way you take care of other peoples caches??? Oh my!

 

WE love you here in Washington and I know you have many, many California friends! Keep up the good work!

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Keystone

Keystone

Posted
Posted

Shoot. I should have locked this thread when several folks suggested it.

 

Weinerdog, your defense of your geocaching friend is admirable. Your opinions are yours to hold forth. Your criticism of the opinions of others are welcome.

 

But please do NOT call people "forum scum" or criticize them based on their number of finds or hides, or how often they go out geocaching. Read the guidelines for the forums posted at the top in the announcements section.

 

You were doing just fine without including that in your post.

 

124791_700.jpg Don't make me stop this car!

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briansnat

+briansnat

Posted
Posted

quote:
All you gruesome people that have been B******G and complaining. How many caches have you found or placed. I can just guess without even looking, that there probably aren't too many. You spend more time on the forums than looking or hiding caches!

 

We have a word for people like you that spend their lives on the forums wrecking havoc. Not geocachers. It's called FORUM SCUM. Very easy to spot.

 

Criticizing someone for taking an object that was clearly meant for someone else hardly qualifies the critic as "gruesome, scum". But what do you call someone who comes into a forum and calls a number of decent people vile names?

 

BTW, it appears that the person you are so ardently defending has agreed that he did something wrong, so I don't see your beef.

 

quote:
He has even gone to the extent of removing caches if he thinks they were in anyway dangerous to the public. Like having to turn around on a road or something.

 

And this is a good thing?

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on September 21, 2003 at 04:19 AM.]

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Sagefox

+Sagefox

Posted
Posted

Clarification or advertisement for my new topic on this subject?

 

Be assured that I am sorry that I caused people pain. I remain steadfast in that feeling. But I also do not agree with the consensus opinion here that anyone, other than the owner of the trackable geocoin or standard travel bug (traveler), has the right to leave a note with a that traveler requesting it be saved for another person. Or that the intended recipient should feel they have an exclusive right to it. I think the heat coming off this item has melted the core.

 

I doubt I will ever consider taking another traveler that is marked to hold for someone specific again because too many people got angry and hurt in the fallout here and consensus must count for something if our geo society is to remain civilized.

 

My opinions in my emails above have not changed though. The error in judgment was in the way I wrote the original log entry. The moral dilemma discussion was meant to be humorous but clearly failed that goal. It was a moral dilemma because, as I suspected, someone other than the traveler owner decided that the traveler should be left for someone else and I was put in the position to make a tough judgment call. Even though it was placed with perfectly good intentions I do not agree with that concept.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to stir up more opinions on core question in a NON-flammable environment in my topic: Should a traveler be left in a cache for someone specific? The response to that topic is drifting from the subject and this one is still drawing more viewers.

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Team Chevelle

+Team Chevelle

Posted
Posted

I just want to note that there is a difference between a discussion of whether or not it is appropriate for someone to leave an item for someone specific in a cache -- and whether or not it is appropriate to TAKE said item once someone else has left it.

 

In other words, you seem to be combining the two together. Justifying that it is acceptable to take the object -- based on a belief that it is unacceptable to leave one for someone specific.

 

I maintain that they remain separate issues. Regardless of whether or not it is right for someone to leave an object for someone specific, it is still wrong, in my opinion, for someone else to take said object.

 

I think that is why this thread continues -- and your other thread drifts -- because you aren't recognizing the difference between those discussions.

 

Even if everyone were to agree that it is wrong to leave an object for someone specific (although, I don't think everyone will agree to that -- but for the sake of argument...), I still feel it unacceptable to take that object once the first "mistake" has been made...

 

No need to really get into it again here -- as I'm not really trying to get into an argument. I'm just pointing out that there are really two different issues involved.

 

- John...

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Sagefox

+Sagefox

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by John & Bretta:

I still feel it unacceptable to take that object once the first "mistake" has been made... I'm just pointing out that there are really two different issues involved.

- John...

 

I'm clear on the difference and that is exactly why the other topic was posted - to keep them separate. I am not interested creating a topic regarding taking an item intended for someone else. That could not possibly get a fair consideration because it is a loaded question.

 

I believe the two items being fused here are Travelers vs. specific non-traveler gifts.

 

But you make a good point here and I am considering it. And it doesn't come off as argumentative at all.

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LowranceTracker1

LowranceTracker1

Posted
Posted

The guy is obviously a self serving prick and should not have taken the coin, no matter how much he wanted it. There was NO justification on his part to do so.

 

I have wanted alot of things in my life (and still want things), but we don't always get them right away. This guy sounds like he was really spoiled as a kid and always got instant gratification by his mom anytime he wanted a new toy or something.

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seneca

+seneca

Posted
Posted

LowranceTracker1's comments are not unjustified. The first post in this thread is true. Reading the entire thread does not change what was done. Lowrance was only expressing an opinion that many others expressed, and I presume still hold. Team Sagefox has admitted what he did was wrong, and it appears that his mea culpa was brought about by the wrath that was rightfully heaped on him. He does seem like a decent guy, who had a lapse in judgment, but I don’t think there is anything wrong with persons continuing to express outrage at what he did and judging him accordingly.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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Vacman

Vacman

Posted
Posted

Kealia - I am going to dedicate a Sig Item just for you, make into a TB and direct it to you as well.

coins.jpg

 

I won't have these until the middle of Oct. (on order as we speak). But look for one heading your way.

 

--------------------------------------------------

When everything is comming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

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Kealia

+Kealia

Posted
  • Author
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Vacman:

Kealia - I am going to dedicate a Sig Item just for you, make into a TB and direct it to you as well.

 

I won't have these until the middle of Oct. (on order as we speak). But look for one heading your way.

 

If you're serious, that is awesome! Just make sure to note whether or nor I am supposed to keep this or keep it moving, ok? Don't want there to be any misunderstandings!

 

I'm really surprised that this thread is still active and getting comments. I started it because I saw something that was wrong and wanted to see if we (collectively) could remedy it.

Yes he had a lapse in judgement and I called him on it, as have many others. He has rectified the situation and I would have thought this would be over by now.

 

That being said, I do think that there is a difference between judging someone and judging thier action(s). We've all done things that we are not proud of and surely we don't want to be judged on the merits of an action that we may perceive to be our low point.

 

I'm by no means defending him or his actions, merely stating that the purpose of this was to correct a bad situation and that has been done. What happens going forward is up to him (I'm still not sure what would occur should this happen again with him as I've stayed away from this and the other related thread for a while).

 

Anyway, I think the name-calling is a bit harsh. Let's keep our eye on the ball, ok?

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Sagefox

+Sagefox

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by LowranceTracker1:

He should have put it back and got a grip.

 

Since we are back at the top with this one again I'll make comments but this one should be locked down because we are just recycling.

 

To TL1 - Perhaps you should read more of the this topic.

 

The "Remedy" that Kealia suggests was a result of this topic was actually laid out in email contacts with the placer of the coin and the before this topic originally posted.

 

Remember that this coin, by owner instructions, is a traveler. This is important here.

 

My intent,from the moment I took the coin and through the entire process was that IF the receipient was really interested I would make arrangements to get the coin to her. It APPEARED that she wasn't interested because it logically APPEARED that the traveler had been sitting in the cache for five days.

 

Why would I not have the right to take the coin, in keeping with the coin owners instructions?

 

I please don't let any of my comments appear to blame the coin placer who left the note. That was a very kind gesture which we intended to honor in my round about way and well before any flap developed.

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opie744

opie744

Posted
Posted

posted September 15, 2003 11:01 AM

I am rubbing poison ivy on the groin region of a voodoo doll, hoping to "bring the universe back in balance."

 

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

Eamus

 

Do we know each other, because I think you hit me with that poison ivy voo-doo too. Now find the cure.

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