Ugh I hate it when

March 31, 2003

Why would they place a hold on a new cache placed by an experienced cacher and then not contact them for information. What is going on these days with all the delays and holds on getting caches approved. It is getting to be a ROYAL PIA,. Are there other alternatives out there for?????

April 1, 2003

Well, coming from a completely inexperienced cacher...

Sure there are alternatives. First off, go here. The nice folks at Network Solutions will sell you a web address for only $25 a year. Doesn't that sound affordable?

Now all you need is an enterprise level database application, and someone to code a professional looking front end web site. If you shop around, you could probably get that for about $20k or so. Depending on if you want a well designed site and functional database. Oh yeah, you'll probably need another $10k or so in hardware that you'll need to maintain as well. The database and web server have to live somewhere, you know.

Actually, you don't have to buy hardware! You could probably start out with a mid level hosting package from Infopop for a mere $1000 a month. And that includes the message board!

So now all you have to do is mangage your web site. That should be pretty easy, right? Oh, you need people to help?

This is where I have to stop being a smartass (reluctantly) because I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Groundspeak. I do know that there is a whole helluva lotta work that goes on behind the scenes here by a lot of dedicated people. Near as I can tell none of them are making squat from this endeavor.

But back to your original inquiry as to the tardiness of your cache approval? I have two words:

TOUGH TITTY!

If you have a legitimate gripe then air it. If not, shut your piehole.

-Vb

3k · April 1, 2003

Verboten,

I think you were being a little harsh to orygun & tag along and that you should apologize.

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

[This message was edited by umc on April 01, 2003 at 10:29 AM.]

April 1, 2003

I think Verboten summed it up quite well.

Upinyachit

Our feet go where the caches are!

1.6k · April 1, 2003

How about if someone actually answers the query?

I know I've run into the same situation. Sometimes the approver has to run it past other approvers to see if the cache, as it was posted, is acceptable. After conferring with others they will either approve it outright or request further information or changes.

What's the problem they're having to confer about? It could be someone else put one in too close to yours just before you submitted yours, a problem with proximity to sensitive areas, or a host of other things an approver has to look at before giving the go ahead. It doesn't have to be anything about your cache, per se, but other factors.

Then again, it might be you're getting too "creative" with your hide. Pushing the envelope on what the guidelines say is acceptable might cause a delay.

Patience is all that is needed.

Hope this helps!

CR

4.7k · April 1, 2003

i think verboten summed it up well, too.

i'd like to add that they'll put a hold on it just to get it out of the queue and then come back and ask questions. they'll approve it or not, but that's what the hold is for.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

April 1, 2003

A few additions to that are:

Cache approvals are somewhat regionalized - so you might see a cache submitted a day later than yours posted while yours is still in the queue.

Caches in the queue will have "HOLD" placed before the cache name by the approver if he's contacting the cache owner or discussing it w/ other admins.

Some caches are archived just to prevent them blocking others on the approval queue while awaiting resolution of a question. We've had to do this when some never responded to the "HOLD" questions. Without a response the cache just sat there blocking others for days, so archiving put the responsibility back on the cache owner to act.

You may wish to look at your cache and see if there is an archive message or log at the base of it. Also check your e-mail program to see if you've missed a message from an approver. Some of the messages I get automatically are routed to my "Deleted mail" folder by the ISP's spam filter due to language so I have to check there every day as well as checking the "In Box".

erik - geocaching.com admin lackey

April 1, 2003

Ok, I will apologize for saying "shut your piehole" and "tough titty." I tend to get worked up and those were uncalled for. Orygun, I'm sorry for that. Sincerely.

I will not apologize for the rest of my statement though. I am very new to this community, but not new to message boards and other internet forums.

It is all too easy to sit behind a keyboard and critisize what seems to be an inconvenience to yourself without taking the time to think about the effort and cold hard cash that go to support the community that you are participating in.

As I said, if there is a legitimate gripe, then air it. I don't see a cache approval being held up for a day or two as a legitimate gripe. If your cache is on hold for a week with no communication from an administrator, then you have a valid complaint. I still don't think the message board is the proper forum to air that grievance.

-Vb

1.2k · April 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

It is all too easy to sit behind a keyboard and critisize what seems to be an inconvenience to yourself without taking the time to think about the effort and cold hard cash that go to support the community that you are participating in.

-Vb

Without any problem with Verboten, or anything he has stated, I want to ask a question about how any of this is an "inconvenience" to anyone???? I've always considered an "inconvenience" to be something that actually affected my life, like the gas station I usually go to being closed so I have to find another one. Or, when my doctor's office changes my appointment time and doesn't let me know in a timely fashion so I show up only to find it's been changed. Or like when my kids don't give me flyers from the school till the DAY of the activity I'm supposed to take them to.... etc, etc, etc.

Not haveing a cache approved in a "timely" (very subject to interpretation) fashion is not that big a deal folks.... it ranks waaaaaaaay down on the "inconvenience" scale, down there with needing to get a new pair of nail clippers or some such nonsense.

If getting a cache approved, or not, is going to do you psychic harm, you need to find a much less stressful hobby (wait, IS there a less stressful hobby????? ). If it's important to you to have your caches approved quickly and without having to answer a bunch of questions, then play by the rules! Make it easy for the approver to check your proposed cache and approve it because there is no controversy, no questions to pass around to the other admins, no rules debate, just a nice easy cache that makes everybody happy and the birds will sing and everyone will get along, etc.....

If you don't mind waiting and initiating debate, etc, then feel free to push the outside of the rules envelope, bring up new and innovative cache hiding and creation ideas, go for the gusto! But then don't complain if there is a delay or the approvers ask a question or two in order to determine if its a legit cache hide.

Juse seems reasonable to me.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

April 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

It is all too easy to sit behind a keyboard and critisize what seems to be an inconvenience to yourself without taking the time to think about the effort and cold hard cash that go to support the community that you are participating in.

-Vb

Back in my day we had to walk uphill both ways, 20 miles, in the snow, with no shoes to have a cache approved.

I think that this kind of post is common on any message board you visit. It seems that because the internet has simplified our lives in a way never seen before, people continue to want more, and want things to be easier. We seem to forget how things used to be before e-mail, and the internet and such. We also take for granted what we have and don't concern ourselves with what actually has to happen behind the scenes. Think how long an approval would take if we had to do it by via regular mail. This isn't directed at any one person, it's just a general observation. It's just like people will cellular phones they complain because they can't get a call in the middle of nowhere......yet X years ago they didn't even have a cell phone or the convenience it provides....They forget that X years ago it would have been impossible for them to make a call while on the way home to ask the hubby/wife if they needed bread w/o stopping at a pay phone....but now they want to complain when it doesn't do everything that THEY want it to do.

Ok I'm done rambling.

Mr. 0

"Remember that nature and the elements are neither your friend or your enemy - they are actually disinterested."

Department of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76 "Survival" Oct. 1970

[This message was edited by Mr. 0 on April 01, 2003 at 08:18 AM.]

3.1k · April 1, 2003

First of all Orygun and Tag Along are two very nice ladies. No reason to jump on them. They live in my area in the NW where things have been approved very slowly compared to other parts of the country. The last few caches approved have been approved by people from other states such as Texas and I'm grateful for those out of area approvers stepping up.

Orygun and a few others placed some caches hoping they would be approved for an event that took place in the Rogue Valley. That way out of towners could hit a few new caches on the way to the event. As of today most are still sitting there. My thought is that a few more volunteers can be used in our area. I'm sure many qualified cachers would be happy to assist. Perhaps a polite note to Jeremy is in order offering services?

April 1, 2003

We need more approvers!! Many have offered to help. Myself included.

Rino 110

MeriGreen 128

April 1, 2003

If the NW US caches are still backed up this evening I'll try to jump on those too. We all have day jobs and many travel in those jobs so some temporary logjams for certain areas occur.

erik - geocaching.com admin

3.1k · April 1, 2003

Thanks Erik, we appreciate any help given out our way and I know you've jumped in for us before.

I know Moun10bike was sick and then very busy. Others don't seem to be around. I think he needs some help.

1.5k · April 1, 2003

Some good points raised here, but I would like to ask the following question: How can a person legitimately complain about a service (or perceived lack thereof) for which they are not paying, and is being run volunteers? Certainly, if it seems that a problem has arisen, contact the appropriate administrator, but why complain here? A far too prevalent occurrence in these forums is that of unsubstantiated and unwarranted complaints. We need to remember, as has already been stated, that this entire site is a labour of love by people with ‘real jobs’. I for one would like to offer my thanks for a job well done. (Without them, I would still have that $400.00 I spent on my Legend, cables and software)

3.1k · April 1, 2003

quote:
Certainly, if it seems that a problem has arisen, contact the appropriate administrator, but why complain here?

What do you suggest be done when the administrator has been contacted? Don't you think this would be an appropriate means to drum up some more help??

quote:
unsubstantiated and unwarranted complaints.

Well they are substantiated. Moderators from other areas of the US have stepped in to give our area a hand. Do you even bother the read the entire thread before bashing someone?

Orygun was asking what is going on. Suggestions made have been to accept help from some more volunteers. I don't see a thing wrong with this thread. If administration wants to accept help that has been offered then maybe things would go easier for the current moderators. I feel voicing these concerns here can only make the site even better.

The activity is growing, the site is growing. IT seems very obvious to me that more help is needed. Hopefully Jeremy will also see this and add the help we need.

1.5k · April 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite: Well they are substantiated. Moderators from other areas of the US have stepped in to give our area a hand. Do you even bother the read the entire thread before bashing someone?

I don't recall bashing anyone, and yes, I certainly did read the entire thread. I do recall voicing my opinion. However, you apparently however missed the point that I was attempting to make. My point was this: We, the forum/site users (Especially the ‘We’ who have for one reason or another not yet elected to support the site financially) should exercise a little more judiciousness in raising complaints. There is precious little point in making a complaint without a suggested solution.

Is the fact that a cache takes a few days to approve really a valid complaint? With all of the people enjoying Geocaching.com these days, it’s no small wonder that there are some delays. I have no doubt that Jeremy is doing his best to address these problems, and I think that a little support is in order. I would like to know however, why Orygun feels that their experience should infer some special status? Does placing a certain number of caches automatically take you to the head of the approving queue?

3.1k · April 1, 2003

quote:
Is the fact that a cache takes a few days to approve really a valid complaint?

Well the fact is that in most areas caches are approved very quickly. It seems to be a problem in our area.

quote:
I would like to know however, why Orygun feels that their experience should infer some special status?

So you feel she wants special status? What she saw was a hold on her caches while caches are approved in other areas. I believe she didn't know that we have local moderators that approve in our area. So of course she wondered what was going on with hers. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but that's my guess.

quote:
(Especially the ‘We’ who have for one reason or another not yet elected to support the site financially)

So those who haven't contributed should be a bit more careful about lodging concerns. OK, sure. Some of us have contributed in many ways besides being a charter member. I for one will not renew only because I see no real value in the service provided for the membership. But I will continue to make purchases through Groundspeak. Did you ever consider that perhaps Orygun may have purchased much more than a charter membership through Groundspeak? I hope, since you have conerns, that you certainly will make all your gps purchases through Groundspeak. You can even get your next gps through them.

Oh don't worry, I'm sure you aren't being elitist.

7.4k · April 1, 2003

Just as an FYI, I am on sabbatical from admin duties (and I don't recall having been sick recently, Lazyboy). You are probably seeing a slowdown in NW approvals because, due to the additional loss of Seth!, the number of approvers dedicated to this area has dropped from 3 to 1.

Up until last month, I was putting 2-3 hours a day into cache acceptance and all that goes with it, and other areas of my life were starting to suffer (like work and, well, geocaching). I needed a break, especially after seeing the number of angry emails and posts about admins skyrocket in recent weeks.

1.5k · April 1, 2003

quote:
Oh don't worry, I'm sure you aren't being elitist.

May I ask, why you feel the need to jump on my back, and bash me on this issue? I made a short submission to this thread, indicating an opinion on the topic. It was in fact, a generalization, which I felt could be applied to a great number of threads in these forums. It is most chivalrous of you to come so readily to someone’s defence, but since I was not making comments specific to an individual, there really is no cause for that.

With respect to the question I asked, Quote: “Why would they place a hold on a new cache placed by an experienced cacher and then not contact them for information [sic].” The inference of this statement is that because the cache was submitted by a person of experience, it should not have a hold placed on it.

Yes, I concede that is certainly is possible for someone to have supported the site in ways other than simply by being a Charter Member. If that comment offended anyone, than please, accept my apologies for it. I was being presumptuous.

Ps, for my own edification, how do you arrive at the conclusion that I am ‘elitist’?

April 1, 2003

My, my cachers are certainly passionate folks. Yes caches are really slow getting approval. I had one where the admin person emailed my promptly to let me know what the conerns were with a placed cache. We exchanged emails promptly and got it all worked out. There has been a hold on one cache now for two days with not a peep from admin. It looks like it is a specific hold because it has a number. I have searched the web site high and low looking for keys or instructions or clues to how to interpret the hold info or even who to contact to ask what is up. If I missed something on the website could one of you kind folks direct me to it. I have a great appreciation for the amount of time and energy running a web site and the thousands of volunteer hours it takes. I'm usually pretty solution oriented if I can get information to get to a solution. caching is a great sport and a welcome addition to our culture I plan to participate for along time and want to be a productive member of the community.

3k · April 1, 2003

Ummm yeah, stop complaining about complaining.

There is a whole other thread for that.

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

2.7k · April 1, 2003

HOLD What is this strange 4 letter word!

I just spent a whole dqy in the hills planting a Cache just to get a HOLD put on it.

HOLD

Just a HOLD no EMail.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

Ugh I hate it when

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