Will GPS Receivers be affected by war?

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

I feel so much better now. On my way to work, my map display freaked out and showed me going down the main blvd in Baghdad. And to think I was worried about a mere 100m inaccuracy.

 

Brian

Team A.I.

[+ClayJar]

Direct from the Interagency GPS Executive Board (IEGB) is this policy statement on Selective Availability. (Incidentally, the DoD runs GPS, but they've got a civilian authority to answer to when it comes to GPS.)

quote:

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U.S. Policy Statement Regarding Civil GPS Availability

March 21, 2003

 

The United States Government recognizes that GPS plays a key role around the world as part of the global information infrastructure and takes seriously the responsibility to provide the best possible service to civil and commercial users worldwide. This is as true in times of conflict as it is in times of peace.

 

The U.S. Government also maintains the capability to prevent hostile use of GPS and its augmentations while retaining a military advantage in a theater of operations without unduly disrupting or degrading civilian uses outside the theater of operations.

 

We believe we can ensure that GPS continues to be available as an invaluable global utility at all time, while at the same time, protecting U.S. and coalition security requirements.

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[Watcher Downloads] - [Official Geocaching Chat]

[Kerry.]

Actually based on available data there's every reason to assume (some might call speculate but facts don't speculate ) that accuracy "improved" considerably on day-of-year 079 (March 20, 2003 UTC) in the Gulf region and been consistently lower since that date as well compared to the previous few weeks.

 

That might surprise some but what some were "expecting" was never going to happen.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+Bluespreacher]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cache Canucks:

quote:

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Originally posted by keck314:

 

Nope, they move.

 

And they're not geostationary either.

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...nor are they geosynchronous.

 

 

http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/animated/provii/ontario1.gif

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But they *are* redundant!

 

Bluespreacher

 

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

[+Chazman007]

The accuracy of my Garmin really sucked today....Then I realized I didn't have it turned on...... More caching less wondering how the war is affecting us. At least we are not on the pointy end of the missiles.

[+Searching_ut]

quote:

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Actually based on available data there's every reason to assume (some might call speculate but facts don't speculate ) that accuracy "improved" considerably on day-of-year 079 (March 20, 2003 UTC) in the Gulf region and been consistently lower since that date as well compared to the previous few weeks.

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Okay, I'll bite. What are the facts, that support this speculation, and by what means do you think the powers to be have the capability of improving the accuracy of the system.

[arkangelz]

From http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47739,00.html

 

"We have demonstrated the ability to selectively deny GPS signals on a regional basis, particularly ... when our national security is threatened," said Lt. Jeremy Eggers, a spokesman at Schriever Air Force Base in Colorado. That's home to the 50th Space Wing ( http://www.schriever.af.mil/50sw/ ), which oversees GPS.

 

That would mean only military GPS receivers -- in planes, ships and in the hands of U.S. special forces -- would work within the targeted area.

 

Eggers wouldn't say if a selective denial would be precise enough to hit just Afghanistan, or if neighboring nations like Pakistan and Uzbekistan would be affected too. He'd only say that the "region can be very well defined."

 

Selective availability (SA), which globally degraded the quality of GPS available to civilians, has been turned off since a May 2000 executive order signed by President Clinton. It's been replaced by selective deniability, which allows the military to geographically pinpoint areas should it choose to degrade GPS quality.

 

Pentagon Proposes Power Boost in Future GPS Navigation Satellites @ http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/gps_upgrade_020507.html

[Kerry.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Searching_ut:

Okay, I'll bite. What are the facts, that support this speculation, and by what means do you think the powers to be have the capability of improving the accuracy of the system.

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The facts are actual accuracy figures based on recorded data in the Gulf region and surrounding countries.

 

For the 14 days prior to March 20, the 95% accuracy figure ranged from 8.2 to 11.8m (average 9.8m @ 95%). March 20 accuracy dropped to 5.2m @ 95% (3.1m RMS), which is quite a considerable change to ponder about considering and basically hasn't changed much since.

 

Who "really" knows what capability there is in specifically fine tuning the system although there are apparently means and ways. Also there's currently no planned maintainence or outages, which gives the system maximum capability.

 

The other question might be is, does the operation control simply keep the system within published specifications and hold a little in reserve?

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[1LadyBug]

We have a Garmin V, it wasn't always constant, but on the highway...we'd be on the road, then, we would be 150ft off the road...still tracking the road.

 

The satellites they are using is on the other side of the world. Are we using the same satellites? I'm new to all this.

 

LadyBug

[arkangelz]

The space segment consists of a constellation of 24 activesatellites (and one or more in-orbit spares) orbiting the Earth every 12 hours. Four satellites are located in each of six orbits. The orbits are distributed evenly around the earth, and are inclined 55 degrees from the equator. The satellites orbit at an altitude of about 11,000 nautical miles. (Earlier plans for the system called for 18 or 21 active satellites.)

 

Taken from http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/gpsfaq.txt

 

I suggest you visit that URL as it makes for an interesting read.

[+Green Bay Paddlers]

I heard a rumor that S/A is being turned back on this week from another geocacher. Is this true? Has anyone heard?

 

I have a Magellen 315 - Any thoughts on how it would be affected if S/A is turned back on?

 

Thanks!!!!

[Kerry.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny U-Boat:

I heard a rumor that S/A is being turned back on this week from another geocacher. Is this true? Has anyone heard?

 

I have a Magellen 315 - Any thoughts on how it would be affected if S/A is turned back on?

 

Thanks!!!!

---

 

Johnny, you've obviously been living in a vaccum, the blind leading the blind. Perhaps that makes 2 of you who can't read.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+EScout]

Went to one of the NGS super-accurate, GPS adjusted benchmarks today. (To one hundred thousandth of a second) After accounting for the rounding of the waypoint in my GPSr, it put me within 6' of where it should have. My Legend reported 13' "accuracy" with WAAS off. I have found that on a nice clear day, in the open, with 8 to 10 sats, the true position is always under the reported accuracy and often half.

 

Obviously, no degrading of signals so far.

[+Searching_ut]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kerry:

The facts are actual accuracy figures based on recorded data in the Gulf region and surrounding countries.

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Are you getting that data from something like the Cors stations we have over here? I haven't ever really had much reason to look for accuracy info for other than the region I was in, but now my curiosity is piqued. I ran a google check for good sites, but couldn't find any links to similar data for that region. Any URL's you could provide would be greatly appreciated, and possibly keep me out of trouble for an hour or two as I surfed the data.

 

Thanks

[Kerry.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Searching_ut:

Is there a good site for that data

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Try searching for SOPAC (Scripps Orbit and Permanent Array Center)

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+HighWayKind]

How I missed this thread when I posted my other topic on this I don't know... here's another article...

 

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2003/03/25/cx_ah_0325gps.html?partner=newscom

[+Gudlyf]

Here's the latest story I was able to find on this issue:

 

GPS, The War And You (Forbes)

[+beckerbuns]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gudlyf:

Here's the latest story I was able to find on this issue:

 

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2003/03/25/cx_ah_0325gps.html?partner=newscom

 

That's fascinating. And yet, I feel like I've seen it somewhere before.

 

-------------------------------------

Becky Davis

San Jose, CA

Kid-carrying cacher

[+Planet]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gudlyf:

Here's the latest story I was able to find on this issue:

 

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2003/03/25/cx_ah_0325gps.html?partner=newscom

 

I'd Markwell you to the thread that already has this same article in it, but it's easier for me to point you to the post above yours.

 

So I will.... Look up ^

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.

[+CYBret]

This is all well and good, but does anyone know if Forbes has anything to say on the issue?

 

Bret

 

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.

When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44

[iryshe]

quote:

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Originally posted by CYBret:

...does anyone know if Forbes has anything to say on the issue?

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They're saying that GPS is neato peachy keen. I wholeheartedly agree

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™

[OlyHippy]

The Coalition already took care of the GPS jammers.

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

Those jammers were intended not to affect our ability to cache in the states, but to insert some 'mung' into the signals to confuse the sat-guided bombs and keep them from hitting legit targets, but innocent hospitals and orphaneges (sp?) instead.

 

As stated in a different thread, one of those 'jammers' was destroyed by a sat-guided bomb. Wonder if they were intending to hit a mobile gun battery, but the jammer confused it eonugh to guide the bomb to itself.

 

Brian

Team A.I.

[+themagician]

Well I did notice over the last week or so that my GPS takes MUCH longer to get a lock. Though when I search for a cache its still right on the money. Found one today and the gps put me with in 15 feet.

 

Alumni of Cache U !

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

My experiences with satlock over the last week or so has been mixed. Last night I was driving home from work, and it took a good 5-7 minutes, as the satellites that were being locked suddenly disappeared. To answer the impending questions...I wasn't under heavy treecover, nor was I surrounded by large buildings.

 

But today, I got a full lock on 10 sats within 40 seconds...go figure.

 

Brian

Team A.I.

[+MedicP1]

I don't know what the rest of you are griping about I got great SAT locks on 10 birds while I was mapping out the inside dimensions of my bomb shelter.

 

So I don't have anything to be worried about... RIGHT?

 

GPSr's...A step in the right direction!

[dsandbro]

It's Peter Arnett's fault.

 

I wouldn't worry about him being fired, though. I understand he has already been offered a job as publicist for the Dixie Chicks.

 

========================================

Friends don't let Friends geocache drunk.

[SlimeDog]

Here's an article I found on Forbes, it's a pretty good summary of GPS's, the war and you...

 

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2003/03/25/cx_ah_0325gps.html

 

[This message was edited by SlimeDog on March 31, 2003 at 03:49 PM.]

[+Mopar]

quote:

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Originally posted by SlimeDog:

Here's an article I found on http://www.forbes.com, it's a pretty good summary of GPS's, the war and you...

 

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2003/03/25/cx_ah_0325gps.html

 

[This message was edited by SlimeDog on March 31, 2003 at 03:49 PM.]

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Thanks for the new info!

Oh, if you liked that, you will LOVE reading this and this too!

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

 

[This message was edited by Mopar on April 01, 2003 at 08:20 PM.]

[SlimeDog]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mopar:

Thanks for the new info!

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DOH! In my quest for good information I neglected to read the entire thread.

[+mrcpu]

quote:

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Originally posted by arkangelz:

From http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47739,00.html

 

Selective availability (SA), which globally degraded the quality of GPS available to civilians, has been turned off since a May 2000 executive order signed by President Clinton. It's been replaced by selective deniability, which allows the military to geographically pinpoint areas should it choose to degrade GPS quality.

---

 

Didn't Clinton Invent Selective Deniability? "I did not have sex with Monica" etc etc ?!?! LOL!

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

[Poppa Duck]

Although I believe that SA has not been turned on and that the gov't isn't interfering with the signals, I have noticed a lot of inconsistencies lately.

 

Inordinate amount of time to get a lock, EPE being reported in the range of 80-100 feet, days where my position is off as much at .25 miles, etc. The majority of days though, the position is spot on.

 

Today as I was driving to one, as soon as I crossed the border from New York into Conneticut I started loosing satellites (not just the lock but the view of them also). By the time I was at the cache I was down to two birds and only one lock ( found the cache by instinct). I didn't get a good position reading until I was several miles back into New York.

[iryshe]

I'm going to unstick this topic in the general forums. Since the war has been on for some time without GPS receivers affected I think we're pretty safe at this time.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™