Tourist's Placing Caches

February 2, 2003

What is it with people who go on vacation to an area that has lots of caches, don't hunt any of them, and then have the nerve to place a cache?

This always raises so many questions in my mind. Like, what, none of the caches in the area were good enough for them? Have they setup maintenence plans with someone who lives in the area ahead of time? Or do they think the cache will just maintain itself? Or, worse, do they think it's easier to ask the locals for help after the cache is already placed? Did it occur to them that there might be a good reason the local geocachers didn't place a cache in that area?

Everytime I see another one of these caches show up on my list, it just get's my blood pumping.

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"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

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February 2, 2003

I have a tourist cache placed in a rest area with one of mine. The coordinates are near 100' off and the owner has yet to reply to any of my email. And they didnt even bother to hunt the other cache (mine) less than 600 feet away. They have found 5 in Iowa and decided to hide 1 in Washington? Is Iowa overpopulated with caches? Thanks for allowing me a outlet for my Tourist Cache frustrations!

February 2, 2003

I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time figuring out what your beef is. These people have placed about one cache for every four they've found... I'd call that generous. Just once they set foot out of Utah and you blow a fuse? What's wrong with the area? How do you know anything about their maintenance details?

What Would Yoda Do?

February 3, 2003

About the only thing more annoying would be if they weren’t tourists, and they gave their new cache an almost identical name as the existing one.

PS I’m not talking about placing a cache that replaced one that no longer exists

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

2.6k · February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by skydiver:
This always raises so many questions in my mind. Like, what, none of the caches in the area were good enough for them?

They may have visited your area just quickly with a ready-made cache container in their backpack having no time to look for other caches. Maybe they just saw a nice place during their visit and figured it would be a nice place for a cache.

quote:
Have they setup maintenence plans with someone who lives in the area ahead of time? Or do they think the cache will just maintain itself? Or, worse, do they think it's easier to ask the locals for help after the cache is already placed?

If you're concerned, why don't you ask them? Maybe they have friends or relatives in the area and therefore visit there few times a year, which should be enough for basic cache maintenance.

quote:
Did it occur to them that there might be a good reason the local geocachers didn't place a cache in that area?

There are LOTS of good reasons: No one has ever thought of placing a cache there, or someone may have, but hasn't brought it off yet, etc.

quote:
Everytime I see another one of these caches show up on my list, it just get's my blood pumping.

Take it easy, it just isn't worth it.

quote:
Originally posted byTeam 5-Oh:
And they didnt even bother to hunt the other cache (mine) less than 600 feet away.

Maybe they didn't have a printout or any other information of your cache. Maybe they just liked the nice rest area and figured it would be worth a cache, just like you must have done. And what's the best is that the next hunter has TWO caches to look for at that particular rest area.

quote:
They have found 5 in Iowa and decided to hide 1 in Washington? Is Iowa overpopulated with caches?

Like I earlier suggested, maybe they visit Washington now and then. In that case the maintenance is probably not a problem. Gee, I wish more Finnish cachers would be as active cache hiders as these people.

quote:
Thanks for allowing me a outlet for my Tourist Cache frustrations!

Tourist caches have the maintenance problem, I think nobody denies that. Anyway, I was more than happy to find a cache during my trip to Thailand. Yes, it was a cache left by a tourist. No, I didn't hide my own cache there. Sure there was problems: I hunted altogether 3 caches, but found only one. The 2 I didn't find might have been stolen or cleaned away since they were hidden in quite frequently visited places.

However, it was great to be able to continue this sport even on another side of the globe, and without those tourist caches it would have been impossible. All caches in that area were these tourist caches. I doubt the locals there had many geocachers among them. Hopefully in the future.

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

38.2k · February 3, 2003

It's simply not a good idea to place caches that you can't maintain and it's rude to expect others to maintain it for you. If you can enlist a local cacher to watch a cache, or if you frequent the area, then fine, but otherwise leave the cache placing to the locals.

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

2.7k · February 3, 2003

Placing a Traditional Caches while on vacation is not a good idea. Unless you have pre-arranged for

someone to maintain your Cache.

Listing a virtual would be acceptable if the quality was good, and they were willing to maintain all the coorespondence that these caches can require.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

February 3, 2003

I agree with Tahosa.If you have no concern about maintaining a Cache site,you have no business placing one.What about the knuckel headed good ol' boys who log on to this site and plunder Cache sites?They have know idea are respect as to what this wonderful game is about.All they do is take and destroy.

February 3, 2003

My only experiences with tourist caches are negative ones. A local cacher who places rather thoughtless and uninteresting caches here likes to place caches when he goes on vacation. He then puts notes on the cache page such as "in the empty lot behind the hotel, squeeze under the barbed wire fence..." or "..in a small wooded area down the road from the hotel. Be careful, you might be trespassing, I don't know who owns the land."

Another of our area caches was placed by a vacationer who expected his non-caching cousin to maintain the cache. It was plundered and archived twice. Both times the cache owner replaced the cache once he returned to the area. It has been plundered again. Now the owner is trying to recruit locals through e-mails to replace the container and maintain the cache. He's blaming his cousin for being to lazy to go for a walk in the woods.

Lastly, another area cache was dropped by an experienced cacher visting some family. It's in a woodlot near a small park but I don't believe the woodlot is part of the park or even public land. Worse yet, it's hidden under a tree covered with poison ivy vines. That may be fine this winter but wait until it warms up. Yikes!

Now where did I park my car???????

February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team 5-oh!:
I have a tourist cache placed in a rest area with one of mine. The coordinates are near 100' off and the owner has yet to reply to any of my email. And they didnt even bother to hunt the other cache (mine) less than 600 feet away. They have found 5 in Iowa and decided to hide 1 in Washington? Is Iowa overpopulated with caches? Thanks for allowing me a outlet for my Tourist Cache frustrations!

I was doing some caching in Davenport Iowa and ran into 2 caches by the same person, but only about 150ft apart. I had never ran into any that close before!!!

February 3, 2003

I think tourist caches are fine. People who don't like them do not have to go get them. That is the big thing about geocaching - you DON'T have to go do it.

The maintainence question of tourist caches is - what?

What is cache maintainence anyway? Does it mean you replensih it with geegaws? Who cares. As long as it has a logbook. And if the cache falls apart, etc, who cares. Someone will post to that effect and that will be it for that cache.

I say this secondary to all the far hike or remote caches. These are the ones I like. I would not expect someone to go hiking in for 5 hours to check on their cache. Read the logs.

February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Divine:
They may have visited your area just quickly with a ready-made cache container in their backpack having no time to look for other caches.

If they had time to place a cache, they had time to search instead.

quote:
quote:
Have they setup maintenence plans with someone who lives in the area ahead of time? Or do they think the cache will just maintain itself? Or, worse, do they think it's easier to ask the locals for help after the cache is already placed?

If you're concerned, why don't you ask them? Maybe they have friends or relatives in the area and therefore visit there few times a year, which should be enough for basic cache maintenance.

And to set a good example for others, they should say so on the cache page.

quote:
quote:
Did it occur to them that there might be a good reason the local geocachers didn't place a cache in that area?

There are LOTS of good reasons: No one has ever thought of placing a cache there, or someone may have, but hasn't brought it off yet, etc.

And maybe local park officials have designated that park to be off limits to geocaching. Or maybe there are some endangerd species there. Usually, only locals know about this kind of stuff.

quote:
quote:
Originally posted byTeam 5-Oh:
And they didnt even bother to hunt the other cache (mine) less than 600 feet away.

Maybe they didn't have a printout or any other information of your cache.

Obviously. Because they didn't bother to check first. AKA, nobody else's caches are good enough.

quote:
quote:
They have found 5 in Iowa and decided to hide 1 in Washington? Is Iowa overpopulated with caches?

Like I earlier suggested, maybe they visit Washington now and then. In that case the maintenance is probably not a problem. Gee, I wish more Finnish cachers would be as active cache hiders as these people.

quote:
quote:
Thanks for allowing me a outlet for my Tourist Cache frustrations!

Tourist caches have the maintenance problem, I think nobody denies that. Anyway, I was more than happy to find a cache during my trip to Thailand. Yes, it was a cache left by a tourist. No, I didn't hide my own cache there. Sure there was problems: I hunted altogether 3 caches, but found only one. The 2 I didn't find might have been stolen or cleaned away since they were hidden in quite frequently visited places.

However, it was great to be able to continue this sport even on another side of the globe, and without those tourist caches it would have been impossible. All caches in that area were these tourist caches. I doubt the locals there had many geocachers among them. Hopefully in the future.

We're not talking bout areas that don't have local cachers (like certain foreign countries). Get with the thread.

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"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

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February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by treemoss2:
What is cache maintainence anyway?

It's step #5 in placing a cache.

quote:
Step 5 - Maintain the cache

Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You'll need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area, and ensure that the cache is in good repair. Once people have visited the cache, inquire about the cache and their opinion of the location. Does the area look disturbed? Are visitors disrupting the landscape in any way? If you have concerns about the location, feel free to move or remove it from the area.

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"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

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38.2k · February 3, 2003

quote:
What is cache maintainence anyway? Does it mean you replensih it with geegaws? Who cares?

What is maintenance? It's making sure your cache is in good condition for other geocachers. It's being available to verify it's still there if it's reported missing. It's making periodic visits to assess any impact on the surrounding area. It's replacing the container if it leaks, the logbook when its full, or wet and, yes, the "geegaws" when they are depleted. And at the end of the caches life, its making certain that it doesn't become litter.

There is another word for maintenance. It's called responsibility.

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

February 3, 2003

An unmaintained cache is litter on someone else's turf.

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Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

February 3, 2003

quote:
What is cache maintainence anyway? Does it mean you replensih it with geegaws? Who cares. As long as it has a logbook. And if the cache falls apart, etc, who cares.

I care, if a cache gets scattered and falls apart it quits being a cache and becomes litter. I take full responsibility for my cache and if it turns into a mess its gone ASAP.

quote:
Someone will post to that effect and that will be it for that cache.

So if the placer lives 500 miles away and won't be back again till possibly next year then what?

When GPSr's are outlawed, only Outlaws will have GPSr's.

2.6k · February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by skydiver:
If they had time to place a cache, they had time to search instead.

quote:
Maybe they didn't have a printout or any other information of your cache.

Obviously. Because they didn't bother to check first. AKA, nobody else's caches are good enough.

Not necessarily. They MIGHT have visited a nice area without any hunting plans (i.e. haven't printed cache pages with them) but decided to hide a cache after all when the spot turned out to be nice and worth it.

They MIGHT have planned hunting, but forgot/lost

the printouts, so all they had left was to hide their own cache.

Ok, enough with the guesses what may have happened. I agree with you about the cache maintenance, mentioning it on the web page, the site being possibly inappropriate for a cache etc, you have a point there. I wanted just to point out that in these cases it's not always necessary to tie oneself in knots and get jealous if your particular caches haven't been searched and meanwhile another caches were hidden. There can be many other reasons too than just local caches being uninteresting. And it's just not worth developing a heart illness.

quote:
We're not talking bout areas that don't have local cachers (like certain foreign countries). Get with the thread.

They have similar problems as originally mentioned tourist caches. Threads tend to evolve.

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

1.4k · February 3, 2003

At least once a month there is a post about a cache showing a good reason to not leave one that you can't return to in a short time.

What is this wasn't approved. There would be a box of trash sitting out there.

When somebody thinks it's stolen it's not going to be the cache owner going out to check if it's still there.

The cache owner won't be around to replace a full log book.

I know other people can do some of these things, but I don't think a cache should be placed where other people HAVE to do these things.

---Real men cache in shorts.

February 3, 2003

I have seen a couple of caches placed in my area by cachers whom were on vacation and I enjoyed these caches them very much. The cachers placed these caches in memory of happy times they had when they visited this area as children. Granted the caches in my area don't get hit that often, but I feel if you make sure the cache is taken care of and is not infringing on another cachers space then there should be no problem. Some of the worst caches I have visited were placed by local cachers.

Lake Tahoe Geocacher

38.2k · February 3, 2003

TahhoeJoe Wrote:

quote:
... but I feel if you make sure the cache is taken care of...

That's exactly the problem. How does a person take care of a cache from 2,000 miles away?

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

24.7k · February 3, 2003

How did a tourist ever find a 'hole' in the cache zone around your town to place a cache? You guys must be asleep at the wheel.

Actually all of Montan is asleep except around Missoula and the that area is just waking up.

No insults intended there Skydiver.

The way I see it is that until we reach cache saturation, tourists can place caches anywhere they dadgum well like. If they ace you to a cool spot, grumble, then email them and offer to take the cache over if you like it enough.

Wherever you go there you are.

4.3k · February 3, 2003

I understand all the frustrations re tourists placing caches and then not maintaining them, but I see no problem with a tourist pointing out a cool spot as a virtual cache.

My own example:

Vacation Memory Cache

I did consider a waterproof container and log for this spot, but KNEW I couldn't maintain it from my home in Michigan. So I set up a virutal, and just challenged people to take the walk. Everytime someone logs a find, I get a reminder of that vacation

I hope nobody has a problem with that.

1.5k · February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
The way I see it is that until we reach cache saturation, tourists can place caches anywhere they dadgum well like. If they ace you to a cool spot, grumble, then email them and offer to take the cache over if you like it enough.

A cache without maintenance is little more than abandoned property. If you can't reasonably get to the cache to take care of it, or haven't made arrangements with other locals to take care of it, please don't place it. Especially not around my neck of the woods.

February 3, 2003

quote:
That's exactly the problem. How does a person take care of a cache from 2,000 miles away?

I don't think there is any one answer to that question. I probably haven’t seen the problems that others have seen in other parts of the country because of the low volume of traffic caches receive where I live. I have been asked twice to check on caches by the owners and I didn’t have a problem with that. I would guess that half the caches placed in my area have been placed by tourists but I would expect that living in a town that depends on tourism. I might view tourist caches differently if I lived somewhere else but here in Tahoe there are not that many caches. Quite a few of the local caches have been placed by friends and me. Perhaps virtual caches would be the way to go, that’s what I have done.

Lake Tahoe Geocacher

February 3, 2003

I kinda agree that tourists should at least attempt the cache they place theirs next to. We placed a virtual in Butte, Mt, to drum up some caching interest there. Then we had to disable it for the winter as the location (private property, superfund site) is closed most of the time during the winter. Then, in December, someone places a cache at the location, within .1 of our virtual. check out:

ours: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=40632

and theirs:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=48950

I have no problem with a real cache being placed here, if they got permission to put it inside the fenced in perimiter of the observation deck overlooking the biggest hole in the world. I just would have my doubts about the permission being given... And since the placer has only found stuff out of state, and none within the last 5 months, I had to wonder -why did they bother?

We all have things that set us off. Sometimes we just have to shrug. Just because Montana doesn't have a lot of caches doesn't mean we won't in the future. Just give those of us who live, work, and play here time. Tourist caches can be fun, if well planned and placed reasonably far from other caches. I would be incrediably embarassed to have placed a tourist cache and then find out that someone had already placed one nearby that I hadn't gotten while I was there. It just wouldn't be "right". And yes, we plan on going to Butte and finding their cache, as soon as we Know the location is open!

-Jennifer

Where am I going? I ain't certain.

When will I get there? I don't know.

All as I know is I am on my way!

February 3, 2003

There have been several abandoned caches in this area left by people who don't maintain them or live close enought to maintain them. The biggest problem has to do with TUPPERWARE (or equivalent) because they DO tend to leak. What it does is disappoint a cacher who spends a lot of time and energy to go find it and have the ultimate let-down: soggy McToys. How depressing. The time it takes out of local cacher's schedules to communicate with the hider who won't return emails, maintain it themselves, or to remove it is just simply disrespectful and rude.

quote:
Originally quoted by TahoeJoe:
...Granted the caches in my area don't get hit that often, but I feel if you make sure the cache is taken care of and is not infringing on another cachers space then there should be no problem.

Personally, I am not a turf warrior. I don't care if 15 other cachers place quality caches in the same park I put mine.

Honestly, the problems are from people who don't read the forums and don't consider the consequences of their actions. Well meaning people, I'm sure, but perhaps some who haven't come across tupperware that was hidden when lake levels were low and then filled with water after the rains.

VF

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Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

February 3, 2003

I do have a problem with Vacation caches so many of the folks placing them mean well , but Some have put them in State parks and other places without asking. Them I get a email from the great park folks we have in Tennessee asking what’s going on here I thought we had arrangement your are supposed to ask first. If I can’t find someone close to take responsibly of the cache them it has to be archived. I have taken over some but when they are a hundred miles away I just can’t . I only put out caches where there is someone to watch over it for me or I can check on it on my way to and from work not next month when I in the area, and I believe everyone should do the same ……………JOE

1.1k · February 3, 2003

I have a term for those type of caches.

P.A.C. : Pre Abandoned Caches.

People who have no intention of EVER coming back and doing anything for their caches.

Period.

There are two caches in Idaho Red and I went WAY out of our way to replace and repair :

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=22539

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=22540

Both of these caches where around a 250 mile round trip and eight plus hours for us to do. And that was while I was working in the area. Now, well we hope there are cachers in that area that will help if needed. Or dump those caches into the trash - archive them - and plant cache by locales who will do the right thing.

I have not checked on where the other caches this person planted are located at but I hope some one else took care of them. Or archived them.

Now, I do not mind others dropping off caches while out and about, but at least have the

courtesy to ask some of the local cacher’s to help out, AHEAD OF TIME !!! And I can not stress that enough.

AHEAD OF TIME PEOPLE !!!

Arrange to send them money to update your cache box or goodies as needed. Even chip in a few bucks for fuel and lunch.

Do not just drop off something thinking there are kind hearted people out there who are willing to do the WORK and let YOU have the credit.

Next, if you are dropping something off do not use cheap a$$ed ziplock plastic boxes.

Both of the above mentioned caches where of this type. Trash waiting to happen.

Ravens love shiny things and will tear the hell out of those boxes to get inside. As well as songdogs, wood rats, coons, squirrels, etcetc.

Somewhere along the line, just one of these type caches will cause a mass of troubles for the locals and the person who did it will get off scott free unless TPTB just cancel that persons account and kick their sorry a$$ out.

End of this rant, I think.

TTFRN, logscaler

February 3, 2003

Thanks skydiver. I agree with you 100 percent and it's really not a rant if it is the truth.

sidewinder

LOST AND FOUND DEPT.

February 3, 2003

I know of 3 caches placed in our area by vacationers. They are actively visited, as two of them are close to the interstate and therefore easy stops for passing cachers. At one point in time each of these caches suffered some sort of problem - leakage, broken lid, completely stolen, etc. All three were very quickly repaired/replaced/adopted by local cachers who stated they had a sentimental place in their heart for the cache and would hate to see it cease to exist.

I'm not condoning the placing of caches you can't maintain, but I'm also not suggesting that we pop a vein when a vacationing cacher places one in our area. It's the same kind deal as when several newbies post the same question and they get blasted, or those guilty of typos get blasted. Some people just don't know, or just don't think. But that doesn't necessarily make them stupid, disrespectful, or mean.

______________________________________________________________________

Remember that happiness is a way of travel, not a destination. - Roy M. Goodman

February 3, 2003

Well, I was taken to task to ask about cache maintainence. Seems like there are two BIG things about tourist (unmaintained) caches.

1 - the McToys might get wet from a damaged container.

I say - get a life. If McToys are your justification for geocaching, I feel sorry for you. If I come on a cache that is wet, or no JUNK in it, I don't care. I have found it. If no logbook, or it is wet, well, I will post such a thing on this site and anyone else thinking of that cache can take it into consideration.

2 - unmaintained equals trash. NO. A container is the same to the environment whether it has crap in it or not. It it is broken open, scattered - well, I or you have found it. At that point hump it back out and post what you found and did.

If it is scattered and gone, well- it is gone. Post it. A tupperware/ammo box, etc is the same to the environment if it is brand new/maintained vs scattered, open, no crap in it, no logbook. Doesn't matter, it is still out there.

If anyone really feels that an unmaintained geocache is litter, they are attributing a value to it that is, in reality, not worth anything different to the earth. After all, your well maintained geocache could still be someone else's idea of litter.

1.6k · February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by treemoss2:
I think tourist caches are fine. People who don't like them do not have to go get them. That is the big thing about geocaching - you DON'T have to go do it.

>>The problem with this is that badly placed caches may end up hurting us. If a tourist places one on private property, and the cops come, who looks bad, the tourist or the poor cacher who is prosecuted for trespassing? While I don't HAVE to go to any cache, I want the sport to be positively seen in the media, and garbaging private property is not the way to do it.

quote:
The maintainence question of tourist caches is - what?

What is cache maintainence anyway? Does it mean you replensih it with geegaws? Who cares. As long as it has a logbook. And if the cache falls apart, etc, who cares. Someone will post to that effect and that will be it for that cache.

Its part of the deal. You place a cache and by doing so, assume the responsibility of checking on it from time to time to be sure that its still there and that its still safe to access. Without it, caches sometimes get stolen or the local conditions change and a cache is not in a safe access area.

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

1.6k · February 3, 2003

We have a cacher here that has a rubber duck traveling cache. The idea is to hide the duck/cache and give its locale to the owner who updates the webpage.

This would be a cool way of leaving caches behind as you travel. Get a bunch of weather proof items like the rubber duck, label them appropriately, and leave these as a tourist cache. They will by nature move around, require no physical maintenance, and would be a fun addition to the game.

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
We have a cacher here that has a rubber duck traveling cache. The idea is to hide the duck/cache and give its locale to the owner who updates the webpage.

This would be a cool way of leaving caches behind as you travel. Get a bunch of weather proof items like the rubber duck, label them appropriately, and leave these as a tourist cache. They will by nature move around, require no physical maintenance, and would be a fun addition to the game.

A traveller cache just passed thru this area, it was left in the Smoky Mtns National Park (its moved now). That's a problem with travellers.... they also will get placed on private property and other locations where caches should not be.

______________________________________________________________________

Remember that happiness is a way of travel, not a destination. - Roy M. Goodman

February 3, 2003

I feel that there are a finite number of good caching spots in any given area. Some may be off limits due to local park regulations, etc. As the number of geocachers grow within an area the competition for those places will increase.

Leave caches in your own area. Let the locals have their fun placing caches when you travel.

$1000 Bill geocaching is living in a 30 foot circle

February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by treemoss2:
get a life

Why is it lately that people around here get offensive when their point of view is countered?

I have a life, thank you. A very fine life. A nice life that includes geocaching.

My experience is that tourist caches don't work well and get disarrayed much more frequently than those placed by local cachers.

Just for the record, I'm not happy about local-cacher placed caches that deteriorate and go ignored, either.

If there are tourist caches that don't fall apart, fine. I still contend, while maintaining a very adaquate and successful life, that caches that fall into disarray because they cannot be physically maintained by the owner or a proxy is, indeed, trash.

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Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

2.6k · February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
>>The problem with this is that badly placed caches may end up hurting us. If a tourist places one on private property, and the cops come, who looks bad, the tourist or the poor cacher who is prosecuted for trespassing?

If the tourist places a cache and the cops come, I'm sure the tourist looks bad. Seriously, it's always the hunter's responsibility not to trespass. Of course hider should never have hidden it in private property in the first place. Still, the basic rule of the site is that the seeker assumes all risks involved in seeking.

quote:
While I don't HAVE to go to any cache, I want the sport to be positively seen in the media, and garbaging private property is not the way to do it.

Its part of the deal. You place a cache and by doing so, assume the responsibility of checking on it from time to time to be sure that its still there and that its still safe to access. Without it, caches sometimes get stolen or the local conditions change and a cache is not in a safe access area.

That is true, but it all goes with the caches placed by locals too. By ANYONE, actually. I'm not for caches left to rot either, but it all seems like suing McDonald's for making you fat, It's not the cache hider being a visitor, it's the badly chosen cache site or a bad cache in itself.

Eating hamburgers definitely have something to do with gaining weight, but the vendor doesn't force you eat them. In the same way a visitor doesn't necessarily (he still might - we don't know that) know about the cache site as much as a random local cacher might. Then again, a bad cache is a bad cache whether it's placed by a visitor or a local

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

1.6k · February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Divine:

quote:
While I don't HAVE to go to any cache, I want the sport to be positively seen in the media, and garbaging private property is not the way to do it.

Its part of the deal. You place a cache and by doing so, assume the responsibility of checking on it from time to time to be sure that its still there and that its still safe to access. Without it, caches sometimes get stolen or the local conditions change and a cache is not in a safe access area.

This is true, but it seems from these forums that these caches placed on vacation are often problems. Maintenance is a big part of setting up a cache. Whether you are travelling or not, its a good idea to place caches where you can get back to to monitor them.

That is true, but it all goes with the caches placed by locals too. By ANYONE, actually. I'm not for caches left to rot either, but it all seems like suing McDonald's for making you fat, It's not the cache hider being a visitor, it's the badly chosen cache site or a bad cache in itself.

Eating hamburgers definitely have something to do with gaining weight, but the vendor doesn't force you eat them. In the same way a visitor doesn't necessarily (he still might - we don't know that) know about the cache site as much as a random local cacher might. Then again, a bad cache is a bad cache whether it's placed by a visitor or a local

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

5k · February 3, 2003

Here is a thread that provides a good example of what can go wrong when tourists hide a cache.

quote:
Originally posted by treemoss2:
A container is the same to the environment whether it has crap in it or not. It it is broken open, scattered - well, I or you have found it. At that point hump it back out and post what you found and did.

If it is scattered and gone, well- it is gone. Post it. A tupperware/ammo box, etc is the same to the environment if it is brand new/maintained vs scattered, open, no crap in it, no logbook. Doesn't matter, it is still out there.

If anyone really feels that an unmaintained geocache is litter, they are attributing a value to it that is, in reality, not worth anything different to the earth. After all, your well maintained geocache could still be someone else's idea of litter.

Treemoss, I don't think the argument was that an unmaintained cache is bad for the environment. The argument is that an unmaintained cache looks bad. Not only to future cachers, but to non-cachers who might find it accidently--including park personnel who have been known to check this website for caches placed in prohibited areas.

I've read a few log entries from park rangers in caches commenting that they knew it was there, and they just wanted to check it out. If they went to have a looksee and instead of a neat, dry container, they instead found a wet soggy mess that may be scattered about, I doubt they would be so supportive of geocaching.

We need to have presentable game-pieces, since usually we're playing on someone else's property.

Jamie

38.2k · February 3, 2003

Many of us don't give a rats patootie about the trinkets, but the large number of people who take their kids geocaching do. A responsible geocache hider will take care of their cache. I really don't think anybody likes to open a cache and find it filled with slimy, green water and a soaked log book (well apparently except for Mr Tremmoss2).

With his irresponsible attitude, I'm glad that Mr. Treemoss2 isn't much of a cache hider.

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

4.5k · February 3, 2003

I like to think of myself as a responsible, enthusiastic cacher and hider. It's unfair I believe to broadbrush all distant hides as irresponsible and without thought.

I've hidden caches in four states. Some of them were theme caches that have taken weeks to prepare getting info, researching, planning the routes (I've done multi's over tens of miles for example), etc. I recently hid one in PA that was damaged by a critter. The first cacher reported it. I drove 2-300 miles the next weekend to replace the damaged container.

I also hid a cache in southern Florida when I was vacationing. I introduced a relative to caching finding two caches and then planning to hide one. I did the research while down there, visited two parks before picking one that had no other caches and was in an interesting place near the Everglades. My cache has been hit two dozen times since last June without incident. Many of the cachers were themselves tourists. Many of the locals didn't even know the park where I hid the cache even existed. They thought it was great that I introduced it to them. Everyone it seems was and is delighted with my cache except some of the people in this thread. Scheesch!!

So what happens if it finally gets reported as damaged or soaked. Well I could ask my relative, or ask a local cacher to help out. I've found FLoridians to be pretty friendly - what's wrong with asking?

On the other hand it could just be just the excuse I need to go on another Florida vacation.

Alan

February 4, 2003

Some places don't have many caches. Many small towns in the Western part of the US are miles from any other towns. Some of these towns are tourist traps. Say you lived in a small town and want to geocache. I'm sure you are not going to find a lot of caches if you're the only one hiding them. Here come the tourists placing caches, suddenly you can have fun geocaching too. Not everyone that wants to geocache lives near 100 other caches. How many of you protesting tourist caches live a long ways from the nearest cache? To the person living in the small town, I bet tourist caches are very welcome.

Another thing, I grew up in Montana about an hour North of where Renegade Knight is from. Last I looked, there were not a lot of caches in the area. I know the area well where I grew up and placing a cache while visiting would probably be welcome by Renegade Knight or the others that live there.

Even if I haven't been to an area before I think I'm smart enough to figure out what a public park is. Now I'm not excusing people who don't use common sense, but that common sense is not limited to locals.

So who is going to maintain it? We all should maintain it. If you are going to a cache and the last person posted that it was wet, bring something to dry it out. If the last person posted that there wasn't much in it, bring some geotoys. If the last person posted that the log book was soaking, bring a new one. Better yet, if you feel so inclined, be proactive and pack stuff along with you to spruce it up in case it's a dud.

Some of the most dedicated geocachers that I know of have geocaches all over the United States. I doubt they can maintain them all, but depend on other geocachers to help maintain them when finding them. If we all just hid geocaches in our local area the amount of geocaches to find would dry up in a hurry.

My one tourist experience was hiding a geocache in Leavenworth, WA. This town is miles from others, and is a big tourist trap for the people from the Seattle area. I thought if I lived there I would want a few caches to find so I hid one in a local park which is a river Island. It was evident to me from the signs that I read that I couldn't hide it down low because sometimes the river floods the area. That eliminated all the good hiding spots, but I still found a place to hide it that I thought would last for a little while. Seven different groups found it before someone stole it. I figured it was a write off and I was just glad to provide some fun to those who did find it. Well, a local geocacher that found it missing decided to create another in the same area that has been found by quite a few people. Next time I go there I plan on finding the cache they hid.

38.2k · February 4, 2003

Alan2 Wrote:

quote:
I like to think of myself as a responsible, enthusiastic cacher and hider. It's unfair I believe to broadbrush all distant hides as irresponsible and without thought.

I dont see where anybody did this. Most people agree that if you can enlist a local geocacher, or friend to watch over your cache, or if you frequently visit the area, or can get back there to check on your cache, it's fine.

It's people who dump caches they never plan on seeing again and rudely assume that local geocachers will take care of it for them who are the problem.

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on February 04, 2003 at 04:10 AM.]

February 4, 2003

It's people who dump poorly designed caches they never plan on seeing again in inappropriate locations [100' from another cache; Park without permission; private property, etc] and rudely assume that local geocachers will take care of it for them who are the problem.

---------------

Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

3k · February 4, 2003

Nah, I disagree with you VentureForth ... I don't the statement you quoted needs any qualifications.

In fact, I think the original statement should be applied to anyone who places caches, and in particular those who place a large number of caches over a large area. I think people should only place as many caches as they can reasonably expect to maintain. For some, that might be as few as 2 or 3 caches; for others it might be 100 or more.

February 4, 2003

How many of you out there in geo-land have multiple caches? I mean specifically the ones who have posted here about the intent of maintainence?

And what is your schedule of maintainence?

I want to see if they only talk the talk.

Because intent is one thing, and doing it is another.

Do you check your caches yourselves or wait for a post that notes something amiss?

If it is a virtual, do you go there often enough to make sure a new trail or other environmental damage isn't happening?

As far as wet soggy logbooks go - I have not found any in such condition. If I did, I would address it by noting it on the site. I do not even know if any of the good, undamaged caches I have found were "tourist" caches or not.

Those of you with a problem with these tourist caches should see that the same could happen with ANY cache, even those with good intention.

People make too big a thing about geocaches, on both sides - we geocachers and the authorities of various depts where caches are hidden.

Let's face it, we are talking about a small container, hidden. Really, what is the big deal?

If you are of the ilk that is worried about the environment to that degree, then maybe the world would be better off if you weren't driving all those extra miles, using all that gas/oil, and supporting the resources and energy and negative environmental fallout associated with cars, traffic, roads.

3k · February 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by treemoss2:

... I want to see if they only talk the talk.

Because intent is one thing, and doing it is another.

Do you check your caches yourselves or wait for a post that notes something amiss?

Both. I've never had a "soggy logbook" in one of my caches, but I did have a broken container that needed replacing.

I quickly learned not to run out and check up on a cache after a "couldn't find" log, especially by a newer cacher or if the cache was rated harder than 1/1.

quote:
Originally posted by treemoss2:
I do not even know if any of the good, undamaged caches I have found were "tourist" caches or not.

Then you either don't pay attention to who placed the cache or you aren't familiar with the names of your local cachers. If you are caching in an unfamiliar area, you can check the cache placer's profile (or the other caches they had found/hidden) to determine their home location.

quote:
Originally posted by treemoss2:
Those of you with a problem with these tourist caches should see that the same could happen with ANY cache, even those with good intention.

Yeah, I addressed that above.

Now, how about YOU, treemoss2? Tell us about your Hard as Hell cache.

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on February 04, 2003 at 07:42 AM.]

February 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 3fros:
So who is going to maintain it? We all should maintain it. If you are going to a cache and the last person posted that it was wet, bring something to dry it out. If the last person posted that there wasn't much in it, bring some geotoys. If the last person posted that the log book was soaking, bring a new one. Better yet, if you feel so inclined, be proactive and pack stuff along with you to spruce it up in case it's a dud.

Yes, we all should help maintin the caches we visit, but the ultimate responsibility still falls on the cache placer. To assume or expect others to do the work for you is rude and inconsiderate.

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

---------------------------------------

February 4, 2003

But my emphasis was added for the specific problems many of us have come across with regards to caches placed by outtatowners.

I don't have a problem with people placing caches in areas they don't frequent. But I think that some extra care needs to go into those caches, like:

Use a durable container such as an ammo can.

Don't use Rubbermaid or Tupperware on the banks of a river or lake.

Have a basic idea that there isn't already another cache within a few hundred yards.

Establish a rapport with some of the local cachers ahead of time to see if they wouldn't mind occasionally checking on it if bad reports of its condition begin to be logged.

Ensure that the cache isn't on Public land where local communities have gained a mutual respect with the local land management agencies for careful placement of caches unless the same consideration is given.

As far as bad locally-placed caches go, I could start a whole new thread and a whole new rant. But this is really talking about the evidently careless placements of caches by travellers without any regard or thought put into those placements. Yes, there are good ones out there. No, I don't support an all-out ban.

Over the past year, I've also encouraged cachers to carry CRKs (cache repair kits) to caches that have had recent problems. These include things like duct tape, a couple geogoodies, but at minimum a spare logbook and pen. This helped me out at The River Bridge Cache in Mississippi.

I just hope that this thread can open the eyes of people who use tupperware and perhaps they will convert to ammocans.

---------------

Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

[This message was edited by VentureForth on February 04, 2003 at 07:51 AM.]

February 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by treemoss2:
How many of you out there in geo-land have multiple caches? I mean specifically the ones who have posted here about the intent of maintainence?

And what is your schedule of maintainence?

I want to see if they only talk the talk.

Because intent is one thing, and doing it is another.

Do you check your caches yourselves or wait for a post that notes something amiss?

Both. I've checked on my caches on my own, and gone out in response to a log that raised a concern. I've replaced containers, restocked stuff, and archived caches, and even found that everything was in perfect shape, after these maintenance visits.

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

---------------------------------------

Tourist's Placing Caches

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