Do Where's George dollars belong in caches?

9.2k · February 15, 2003

I often see Where's George dollars in caches as trade items. Sometimes they're even sealed in baggies. It appears that people take them, log them at wheresgeorge.com, and then put them in other caches (like a travel bug).

It seems to me that this is corruption of the Where's George idea, which is to see where a bill travels in the normal course of economic exchange. There's nothing being bought or sold when these cache dollars move from person to person via caches. As a matter of fact, this seems to be in direct violation of WG's Member Guideline #1.

Thoughts?

February 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Prime Suspect:
I often see Where's George dollars in caches as trade items. Sometimes they're even sealed in baggies. It appears that people take them, log them at wheresgeorge.com, and then put them in other caches (like a travel bug).

It seems to me that this is corruption of the Where's George idea, which is to see where a bill travels in the normal course of economic exchange. There's nothing being bought or sold when these cache dollars move from person to person via caches. As a matter of fact, this seems to be in direct violation of WG's http://www.wheresgeorge.com/rules.php3.

Thoughts?

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/3608_2800.gif http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/3608_2600.gif http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/3608_2700.gif

I agree that Where George Dollars really are not good cache trade items.

3k · February 15, 2003

You are allowed to spend them you know.

Cache you later,

Planet

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.

February 15, 2003

I'll be sure log them and put them to good use.

Capn Skully

February 15, 2003

It depends.

If you identify them as such to wheresgeorge.com, they basically mark the bills as GeoCache bills and the data is therefore excluded from their analysis, so no harm done.

February 15, 2003

We've often found Where's George bills in caches in the UK and I've wondered why the web site only lists the US bases in the UK and not other locations. Now I understand.

Therefore would all cachers not put them in caches outside places listed on the web site. It causes great frustration when you helpfully try to log the bill and find it can't be done.

Dave

3k · February 15, 2003

quote:
I agree that Where George Dollars really are not good cache trade items.

You're right. Broken McToys are much better. As Planet said, you are under no obligation to place the bill into another cache. Gather a couple of Georges, buy yourself a Happy Meal, and you'll have both lunch and a quality trade item.

February 15, 2003

Personally it doesn't bother me, I have left some that have later shown up at hardware stores and restaurants! I put them in the cache along with other trinkets and I hope that the cachers that pick them up will spend them on something! When I pick up a WG, I spend it, usually that day at the 7-11 for gatorade and crackers! Heck, even those microwavable bean burritos get my money, though you wouldn't want to ride in my truck with me afterwards! You don't like the WG dollars, leave them alone, they don't take up much space!

Darkmoon

All you have to do to fly is throw yourself at the ground and miss!

February 15, 2003

Originally posted by Prime Suspect:
I often see Where's George dollars in caches as trade items. Sometimes they're even sealed in baggies. It appears that people take them, log them at wheresgeorge.com, and then put them in other caches (like a travel bug)./QUOTE]

I haven't ran across that yet but it wouldn't bother me to take it out of the baggie and use it! Hey money is money!

Darkmoon

All you have to do to fly is throw yourself at the ground and miss!

February 15, 2003

I think this is an on the fence issue. If the bills are placed in a cache and someone else picks them up and spends them as they would any other dollar(as Sacagawea dollars are quite common) I think its fine that is how normal money moves. But if the same bill is continually passed from cache to cache then its a geocaching travelbug and no longer a viable where's george dollar because it is removed from normal circulation.

Eeyore

I'm one sat short of triangulation.

6.5k · February 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Prime Suspect:
I often see Where's George dollars in caches as trade items. Sometimes they're even sealed in baggies. It appears that people take them, log them at wheresgeorge.com, and then put them in other caches (like a travel bug).

It seems to me that this is corruption of the Where's George idea...

I agree that using a bill is not exactly 'normal movement', and if I remember correctly WG has set up the "most hits" rating thing to exclude geocache related bills for this very reason.

Whenever I come across a bill I trade it out, log it in, and spend it.

38.2k · February 15, 2003

I think WG$ are great cache items. I know that using them in Geocaches isn't entirely keeping with the spirit of the WG rules, but I believe the WG website has addressed the issue by making a separate listing for geocached Georges.

Georges are great because they fit easily into microcaches and it's always fun to see where they wind up, whether they're moved from cache to cache, or released into the wild.

I personally like finding them. Often they're the only worthwhile trade item in a geocache and once I find 3 or 4 caches with Georges, it pays for breakfix!

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

1.6k · February 15, 2003

We usually take the WG$ and spend them. I figure the person who put them in is interested in getting them in circulation, so that's what we do.

CR

February 15, 2003

Interesting discussion. Local to me, there is a cache called "cash cache" that specifically asks for the items in the cache to be money-related. So, for that one, I put together a little baggy with a WG, several state quarters, and a '68 half-dollar. Granted, they aren't rare or anything, but as others have pointed out: I'M FIGURING ON PEOPLE SPENDING IT. I'm the first person to register this bill. If the person who takes the baggy wants to keep them: well, okay. I'm figuring that most people will stop and grab a Coke (or whatever) on they way to the next cache (it's what I'd do) so now my bill is out in circulation. But, then again, this is a theme cache and the theme is money.

Bottom line for me: what people leave in a cache is a call for their judgment. I've seen lot's of things in caches that I wouldn't have left there. There have even been trades I've made where the item I took was basically trash and I didn't think it should be left for someone else. Things tend to go downhill in a hurry when they get over-regulated. Keep the rules simple and let people have fun, and generally they will. Of course, what they call fun, you may not. Aren't you glad you don't have to do what they do now?

These are my opinions.

Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin; the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentance is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity. --Lazarus Long

February 15, 2003

wheresgeorge.com loves geocached bills. Geocaching may very well be the site's single best source of introducing new people to georging, many of whom pay to be Friends of George. Likewise, geocaching has probably picked up a few geocachers who learned about it from georging. I personally know of at least two.

Even though I feel we should stamp out and eradicate superfluous redundancy, as other posters on this thread have already pointed out, there's even a special george section for geobills. The administrator, Hank, has repeatedly stated in their forums that circulation through caches, whether it be once, twice, or 18 times, could be considered natural circulation.

Unfortunately, just as with our Travel Bugs, there are some that manipulate circulation to artificially inflate the numbers.

Now, if I could get all of you to logs this bills serial number: K6505......

Visit the Mississippi Geocaching Forum at

http://pub98.ezboard.com/bgeocachingms

24.7k · February 15, 2003

I had heard that Wheresgorge didn't like goecaches. Regardless since people take and leave dollars with or without the bills being wheresgeorge.com bills this really is the natural part of the normal economic activity of a bill.

The very existince of geocaching and money tracking changed aspects of a bills life. Change is the nature of things.

Wherever you go there you are.

February 16, 2003

I trade wheresgeorge.com bills. The bills I take are entered and spent in commerce. Out of the marked bills I have left in caches (I guess about 20 bills)only one has been cache hopping. The other ones have been spent.

Another reason I like to pick up marked bills is that they introduce me, by way of profile, to new people. I have picked up bills from 2 well known cachers from New Jersey that vacationed here in Virginia. It was fun "meeting" these folks, and whenever I read one of their posts I know who they are.

I first heard about geocaching in the wheresgeorge forums.

February 16, 2003

quote:
As a matter of fact, this seems to be in direct violation of WG's

We found out about geocaching through a where's george bill. Since then, we have introduced alot of families to geocaching. It also seems to me, that the kids and the new members love the caches with the george bills the best. It makes for an interesting find.

Duane

Upinyachit

Our feet go where the caches are!

1.2k · February 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Prime Suspect:
I often see Where's George dollars in caches as trade items. Sometimes they're even sealed in baggies. It appears that people take them, log them at wheresgeorge.com, and then put them in other caches (like a travel bug).

It seems to me that this is corruption of the Where's George idea, which is to see where a bill travels in the normal course of economic exchange. There's nothing being bought or sold when these cache dollars move from person to person via caches. As a matter of fact, this seems to be in direct violation of WG's http://www.wheresgeorge.com/rules.php3.

Thoughts?

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/3608_2800.gif http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/3608_2600.gif http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/3608_2700.gif

In my humble opinion you simply have too much time on your hands to think about stuff like this. Its just a game, enjoy and relax.

Lapaglia

Muga Muchu (forget yourself, focus)

February 16, 2003

I agree. I think some of these folks take themselves and a supposed to be fun game too seriously!

4.8k · February 16, 2003

Well, I know that my mother has placed WG's in caches and got excited when they moved. I don't see it as a violation of geocaching rules. Is it a violation of WG rules? Well... it says "natural" circultion. Is Geocaching natural? I suppose for many it isn't, but for us here it is!

I say don't sweat it! I would rather see a WG placed in my cache than a used (new in bag is ok) McToy!

Also...If anything, I see this as a topic to discuss on WG boards and not here! If any rules are broken, it is WG rules, not caching rules!

4.8k · February 16, 2003

quote:
I think WG$ are great cache items. I know that using them in Geocaches isn't entirely keeping with the spirit of the WG rules, but I believe the WG website has addressed the issue by making a separate listing for geocached Georges.

If Brian is right, and I have no reason to believe that he isn't, then it is taken care of!

Regardless, if there is any question about the WG rules, cachers shouldn't have to enforce them!

February 17, 2003

Yes, I agree that Where's George dollars make excellent trade items.

February 17, 2003

They don't bother me when i find them. As stated earlier its still money. I found that they spend just as good as regular dollars. They spend way better than Mctoys, dirty or not. Just my humble opinion

Altree

(you will not starve with a p38 and a can of food)

4.7k · February 17, 2003

i take 'em. i spend 'em. i like to find 'em in caches. but yes, i spend 'em.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

2k · February 17, 2003

I leave them in caches and so far most of the ones I've left haven't gone from cache to cache.

Also, if I find one I usually take a WG$ out of my pocket and exchange it.

I don't put them from cache to cache. I spend them when I find them.

The people that usually have an issue or just like the people on this site that have issues. It's the folks that see everything as a competition instead of just enjoying WG or geocaching.

1.2k · February 17, 2003

And it's a question I've wanted to ask about many, many, many issues that come up on these forums.

Why are we worrying about this stuff?????

I don't care if people put "Where's George" bills in a cach, or in every cache. I agree with one of the sentiments I saw above, take the george bills and buy a happy meal so you can have an appropriate cache item, sheesh.

Heck folks, I'm a cop and "I'M" timed of all the "policing" going on lately. Ya'll go hunt caches and have fun for crying out loud.

Of course, this is just my very humble opinion.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

March 29, 2003

I agree with you. I have taken WG $ out (logging them, of course) and put them back into circulation. I have also just moved a few. I wondered the same thing as you, however, since it seems to combine the "Where's George" program and the "Travel Bug" program. If they are put into a cache, with a note telling to put them back into circulation, I think it would be better..not useing them as TBs.

DiziTxs

March 29, 2003

I figure that placing the WG dollars into caches is how I would naturally circulate the bills. Several times I've run across unmarked dollar bills in caches already, and I suppose that if I weren't into WG, I'd probably still use plain dollars as trade items.

When I find the WG bills, I give them the hit and see if the owner intends them to stay in geocaches. If not, I spend them on lunch.

March 29, 2003

I think it's perfectly acceptable to trade WG bills. In fact, if it wasn't for WG, I wouldn't have ever heard about geocaching. I think if you abused the system and put $500 WG bills in a cache to bump up your WG score, that would be wrong. But if you do that, email me and let me know so I can go visit the cache quick!

quote:
Originally posted by Prime Suspect:
I often see Where's George dollars in caches as trade items. Sometimes they're even sealed in baggies. It appears that people take them, log them at wheresgeorge.com, and then put them in other caches (like a travel bug).

It seems to me that this is corruption of the Where's George idea, which is to see where a bill travels in the normal course of economic exchange. There's nothing being bought or sold when these cache dollars move from person to person via caches. As a matter of fact, this seems to be in direct violation of WG's http://www.wheresgeorge.com/rules.php3.

Thoughts?

3k · March 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by DiziTxs:
I agree with you. I have taken WG $ out (logging them, of course) and put them back into circulation. I have also just moved a few. I wondered the same thing as you, however, since it seems to combine the "Where's George" program and the "Travel Bug" program. If they are put into a cache, with a note telling to put them back into circulation, I think it would be better..not useing them as TBs.

Is that what they do in Texas? I've seen literally hundreds of WG dollars in caches, and I've never seen one used as a travel bug nor have I ever seen a note attached to one suggesting that it should only circulate via caches.

It would be pretty funny if people actually obeyed such requests, since one of the big problems with travel bugs is that finders rarely honor the TB's goal.

4.7k · March 29, 2003

the first one i found, i put in a cache. all the others magigally turn into snacks.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

March 29, 2003

Ohhh Yeah! I think I found a new part time job!

"Democracy is the belief that 20,000 lemmings can't all be wrong."

March 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
Is that what they do in Texas? I've seen literally hundreds of WG dollars in caches, and I've never seen one used as a travel bug nor have I ever seen a note attached to one suggesting that it should only circulate via caches.

I actually found one like this in Ohio. It was sealed in a plastic bag with instructions indicating that it should be passed on only in caches.

March 30, 2003

heck yes,I take whees george dollars and buy knives and lighters,and also those deadly nerf balls

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

3k · March 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Milgren:

I actually found one like this in Ohio. It was sealed in a plastic bag with instructions indicating that it should be passed on only in caches.

And you later read in a log "Took sandwich bag containing instructions, left George?"

On the positive side, I have learned from these threads over the months that geocachers are true rebels with little regard for rules, so I think we can safely assume that bill was taken to the nearest McDonalds and spent on a Happy Meal containing a valuable and desirable trade item ... after it has been played with and broken, of course.

This bill indicates to me how seriously even the owner of the "Where's George" website takes his own rules about circulation ... a kid mailed it to Pino (Bethlehem PA, one of the leading "Georgers," who mailed it to Hank (Brookline, MA, the website owner) who mailed it to someone else.

Is trading Georges via Geocaches any more "closed" than that example? Not to my eyes.

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on March 30, 2003 at 09:53 AM.]

March 30, 2003

They don't bother me. I've left WG bills in caches, and I've taken other peoples WG's bills out and spent them on the way home.

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

---------------------------------------

March 31, 2003

I did take a WG bill once but I agree that they should be spent and let them go on their way.

I stopped at the nearest McDonald and got myself some coffee for my drive home.

"The hardest thing to find is something that's not there!"

March 31, 2003

Sure, why not? If a person wants to restrict it to cache only transactions it does seem to circumvent the wheresgeorge rules and turn it into a travel bug. Doesn't bother me too much and I'll play along. But I also feel free to spend any other bill I find in a cache, as long as I've traded fairly for it. I also carry a stash of my own bills as emergency trades.

April 1, 2003

As an avid Geocacher and wheresgeorger I had to post my thoughts. I found a wheresgeorge bill in a geocache in October 2001 and have been marking bills ever since that first one. I am guilty of putting marked Georges in baggies and placing them in caches, but prefer when those bills then get picked up by someone else and put into normal circulation by being spent.

I normally trade unmarked bills in geocaches with one of my marked bills, then I mark those bills I have traded and usually spend them in normal circulation. I would say my ratio of geoGeorges to natural Georges is about 1:50. I credit Geocaching with getting me involved at wheresgeorge. I have NEVER found a wheresgeorge dollar in normal circulation, only in geocaches, and even then I've only found two out of the nearly 300 geocaches that I've found.

To me this is a topic is a non-issue, both are fun plays with the old ways colliding with the new. Geocaching is the old-fashioned game of hide and seek morphed into the technology age. As for Georging, having paper bills will probably be a thing of a past in the next 20 years, so why not have a little fun on the bridge from the paper-filled society to the paperless society?? If geocaches are a clever springboard to getting my bills in circulation in far-away places, all the better to capitalize on both hobbies.

1.4k · April 2, 2003

Sure, why not. For a geocacher, this is a normal way of spending money. I've left unmarked bills in caches; why not marked ones?

2.3k · April 2, 2003

Let me come across one of them...so where's George? Why, he's going to pay my bills right now, that's where he is, thank you...

April 2, 2003

They do belong in caches! This is why...

I found out about geocaching because I was already an avid wheresgeorge fan. The way it happened was that I got a post from a woman in Virginia who found one of my bills when she was on vacation in Florida (not found in a geocache, she just got it in change somewhere). When she registered the bill she mentioned she was going to save it for a geocache when Spring came and the weather got better. Her note on my bill register is what prompted me to write her and then come over here and find out about this hobby and I'm even more in love with geocaching than I've ever been with wheresgeorge and that's saying something.

I only have georged bills with me about 50% of the time when I'm geocaching so I leave them sometimes along with another trade item (there's almost always room for a dollar bill). I'm not doing it for the hits on the bills so much (and I rarely do get hits from them)...I'm doing it to help introduce someone already involved with geocaching to another fun hobby, particularly for kids (and it helps them learn geography too as they map where their hits come from). I never leave a note asking people to log my bills at wheresgeorge, the bills are stamped, if they want to log them they can and I'm perfectly happy if they take the bill and spend it without logging it because more than likely they will spend it somewhere where I probably wouldn't spend it so it's getting circulated which is fine with me.

Hank (the head honcho at wheresgeorge) is not opposed to geocaching, they just don't count in the top ten lists. Natural circulation is not just buying and selling things, giving money away is also natural circulation. Lots of people at wheresgeorge like to leave "serendipity" bills here and there (in a book at a bookstore, on a park bench, etc.) just to see what happens. Geocaching bills are not that much different from a serendipity bill in my opinion.

I don't really understand why there is such opposition from a few people in each camp because those of us who indulge in both hobbies understand the rules pretty well, I think.

Here's the only problem I have with wheresgeorge bills being placed in geocaches: Several times I have found bills handwritten and/or stamped with wheresgeorge that were not already registered at wheresgeorge!!! This is a big NO-NO!!! If you aren't going to register the bill before marking it then DO NOT mark it!!! The biggest rule at wheresgeorge is to ENTER the bills before MARKING them. (Probably preaching to the choir but in the off-chance that somebody reads this who needs to know, here it is.)

April 2, 2003

This is a perfect match, your still moving the bills around and in the end they will renter circulation. This seems to have been addressed in the previous thread. I say Cache On with George! Jpajzz

April 3, 2003

If I take a WG $1, I'll usually buy a drink on the way back home from Geocaching (then register the serial #).

Better yet, save WG $$ from caches and buy a travel bug with them.

3k · April 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by RastaDave:
If I take a WG $1, I'll usually buy a drink on the way back home from Geocaching (then register the serial #).

Uh-oh ... better watch out; the rabid Georgers would have a fit if they found out you logged a bill not currently in your possession ... to them, that's the worst sin one can commit.

Ah well, I visited four caches this morning and as usual, left a trail of Georges.

April 3, 2003

There is a special section of the Where's George site JUST for geocaching WG bills, so they certainly belong in caches!

So, end the thread. majicman HAS SPOKEN!

--majicman

April 3, 2003

...I'd rather find a "Where's Ben" in a cache.

June 20, 2003

If Hank Eskin (Creator of Where's George) didn't want bills put in Geocaches...then why would he have a Top 10 list of the most entered "GEOCACHE BILLS"?

Top 10 Geocache Bill List

- JacobTN

June 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lapaglia:<snip>

In my humble opinion you simply have too much time on your hands to think about stuff like this. _Its just a game, enjoy and relax_.

Lapaglia

Muga Muchu (forget yourself, focus)

I would definitely agree here. As a quasi signature item ("Lefty's own Geoca$h keychain"), I feel that if one takes the bill and spends it, whether he/she enters it or not, that could count as "natural" circulation. Just my .02

P

carpe cerevisi

Do Where's George dollars belong in caches?

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