Etiquette - helping to place a cache

June 12, 2003

I want to know what others think.

Last night I helped to place a new cache. We both hid it, both put items in it. But since only one person can submit a cache, it's credited to the other person.

Should I be "allowed" to log the cache as a find? There are several reasons that I want to do this. Mainly, it gets it off of my first page of caches as one I haven't found. Second, I get credit on the nifty rankings page for another cache in the state (and in Louisiana, even ONE additional cache found/hidden makes a big difference).

I know that there are many folks who hide caches with a friend, so how do you handle this?

Thanks!

-Cortney

June 12, 2003

You can do whatever you want. Personally, I don't see the reward of finding something you hid yourself.

GF

===========================================

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

June 12, 2003

Logging a cache you had a hand in placing is not cool. Hopefully there will someday be a way to filter and remove caches from your "nearest caches" page, or give multiple accounts credit for the hide. Until then, I ignore them. As far as rankings go, why inflate your numbers? If it's a competition (is it??) then wouldn't you want to have an accurate number of finds? See post above...

June 12, 2003

Kind of lame, IMO-

What is fun about "finding" it if you were right there when it was placed?

Other cachers will have to actually search and maybe not find it. Seems a little unfair to them.

4.7k · June 12, 2003

well, sure. it's your conscience, after all. why not go ahead and claim all the caches you hid? after all, you know where they are...

hey, wait! i just thought of a great way to boost my find count!

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

4.1k · June 12, 2003

We recently placed a cache with a friend. When we logged it on this site we just put our name "&" and his name as the person doing the placeing of the cache. On the cache page his name is listed along with ours, but it doesn't show up in his profile as a hidden cache.

Whether or not you log it as a find should be irrelevent to others (unless THEY are keeping tabs on YOU!).

The name of our cache is "Bigfoot" if you wish to see how we logged it.

6.5k · June 12, 2003

If it really bothers you to have it on your not found, then log it. But if you can live with it being 'in the way', then don't.

I think its of cheating to claim a find for a cache you knew exactly where it was. But this is not about getting another find, but making your nearest caches page more accurate, right?

1.4k · June 12, 2003

I think the excuse of getting a cache off your closest page is pretty lame. There are caches that I will never go after and will always be on my list. Should I just go ahead a log a find on those stating I will never find them just so they aren't "In the way"?

---Real men cache in shorts.

June 12, 2003

Here's a suggestion. If its really important to you to get it off, your nearby unfound list, and you don't want a guilty conscience why not post it as a find like this:

"I didn’t really find this cache (I actually helped hide it) - I just wanted to get it off my nearby unfound list. So as not to artificially inflate my “find count” I changed my “find” of xxx Cache (300 miles away) to a “note”."

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

June 12, 2003

Posting a find on a cache you helped hide is poor form IMHO. Not much challenge there and certainly no reward. But then again, I could not care less about numbers, I find what I feel like finding and never compare my *stats* in a competive way with anyone.

My mind not only wanders...

Sometimes it leaves completely...

**Namaste**

38.2k · June 12, 2003

No. You already know where it is, so it would be dishonest to post it as a find. I've been looking at a similar cache for over a year. I placed it with another geocacher under his account. In the beginning it annoyed me and I started thinking of ways to get it off the page (like having my daughter, or wife find it). It's still there and it doesn't bother me anymore.

I do wish the website had an "ignore this cache" option though.

"Au pays des aveugles, les borgnes sont rois"

6.5k · June 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Nurse Dave & LKay:
I think the excuse of getting a cache off your closest page is pretty lame. There are caches that I will never go after and will always be on my list. Should I just go ahead a log a find on those stating I will never find them just so they aren't "In the way"?

If it bothers you, yes.

But like I said, only if this is the real reason, if you go around loging everything found, you really don't care how your nearest list looks you just want it to look like you've found many caches.

June 12, 2003

If you signed the logbook, you found it - that's the argument I've heard for people who got *close* after searching a long time but didn't actually sign anything, and it applies here too. You helped hide it, so you deserve credit of some sort. If the site won't give credit to multiple hiders, but it does give credit to multiple finders, then I see no logic to NOT logging it. I don't see this as any different than cachers hunting in groups. Everybody in the group gets credit when a cache is found, so in the end how is this so different? If you made the effort to go into the woods, helped pick out a spot, averaged coordinates, maybe even carried a few things, you did plenty - take the well deserved find and ignore the unenlightened among us. I have a problem with people claiming credit for hiding AND finding the same cache - now that's just sick .

38.2k · June 12, 2003

quote:
if you signed the logbook, you found it - that's the argument I've heard for people who got *close* after searching a long time but didn't actually sign anything, and it applies here too.

Great idea. I have some 40+ caches out there. Next time I make a maint visit, I'll sign the book and log it as a find. Think of the possibilities. If I make 4-5 maint visits a year to each cache, I can really run up my find counts. That is so cool!

"Au pays des aveugles, les borgnes sont rois"

2.4k · June 12, 2003

Unlike most, I agree with ZingerHead on this one. Until the site is changed to allow multiple accounts to get credit for the hide, the only way to get some credit for the work done is to log it as a find.

Actually, I have a cache like this, and I don't think it's fair that I was the only person to get any credit for the hide. We hid the cache as a group at an event cache that I organized. I found the spot, and supplied the ammo can, but everyone helped in some way, including looking for spots for a hide during the day, we just chose to go with the one I found.

Nothing to see here, move along.

4.7k · June 12, 2003

fair? credit? that's funny.

antoine (my most recent hiding partner) would prefer to have a clickable profile. he may or may not leave a note. he is not claiming it as found, even though he found the location and a willing host for a cache for which i had only developed a concept.

whining about not getting credit for a stealth sport is funny. is anyone giving out prizes based on number of caches hidden? and if they are, i think this is EXACTLY why there are no official rankings of players. oy. this, i don't need.

why not run a title page on the cache thanking everybody who helped, right down to the guys who put in the parking lot. ok, roll credits.

oh, wait. i'm getting credit for this post, but surely i'm not the only one to have these thoughts. and someone had to write the software to allow me to communicate them. and develop the hardware. and i'd like to thank my local internet provider, and the fine people at the vermont electric cooperative....

everybody boost your post count by one.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

June 12, 2003

Ok now we can see that some geocachers are complete asses as well. ^ I see it as a legit problem. I too had a difficult cache that was on the first page of my unfound cache list and finally I got around to finding it so it wouldn't keep taunting me. I love how everyone makes a big deal about how count numbers are no big deal. If they aren't then go ahead and log the cache as found. No harm done. I like how the polite poster before me stated

"is anyone giving out prizes based on number of caches hidden?"

Obviously the answer is no so logging it as found would step on no one's toes or bother anyone (except maybe the other cache owner and himself) theoretically except those people in this thread who get all worked up about it.

I say log it as found. No harm done. Continue Enjoying Geocaching. Done Deal

The Department of Redundancy Department

3.8k · June 12, 2003

Personally, I don't think it makes any difference if you know where a cache is before you log it as a find. What about all these virtuals that we've already known about?

Log it as a find...who's counting, anyway?

June 12, 2003

Re: credit and statistics - if you mean Dan Millers state statistics, there are found and hidden counts summed together. Because you can't get a credit for hiding it, you have to find it.

Czech caching in US.

20.7k · June 13, 2003

While I wouldn't log it as a find, I understand your position. It can be irritating to have a cache on your nearest list mocking you. If it really bothers you, log it as a find and explain in the note why you are doing so. Its not that big of a deal.

As far as credit goes, Haggaeus is completely correct. Dan's site does combine these numbers. Therefore, there is certainly a good argument for logging this cache as a find to keep your numbers correct (or at least your ranking correct).

June 13, 2003

Log it or not, up to you.

Swanlakers

1.4k · June 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by pnew:
I see it as a legit problem. I too had a difficult cache that was on the first page of my unfound cache list and finally I got around to finding it so it wouldn't keep taunting me.

That's a problem? I guess I'm glad I not as deeply effected as others by what is on my computer screen.

And the comments about Dan's site, do those mean the numbers really do matter?

---Real men cache in shorts.

June 13, 2003

It's a sport with open rules (ie, lack thereof) and diverse interests. I'm interested in the thrill of the hunt, again and again, and I'm a number tally'er. I like to get credit for a hiking effort and the day's activity.

If I go out with a partner that wants to place, they do it out of view and then I do the quality control check. Either w/ coords if it's a 2-3 star, or w/o if it's a 1-2 star. The effective EPE is no better than GPS, there is no decrypt cheat, no maps, no notes, and little foot trail evidence. There is the embarrassment and pressure of working in front of a smirking fellow geocacher. I sign on line 3, so FTF and STF are available and I post after STF. Done this about a dozen times. That's my solution for a 'not game' cache on my nearest 200 cache list: make it game.

June 13, 2003

I think it's OK since you don't get "credit" for the placement in your numbers. However, if you log the find first, you rob someone else's FTF glory. Make a separate trip out to find it later and log it.

quote:
Originally posted by cortneyofeden:
I want to know what others think.

Last night I helped to place a new cache. We both hid it, both put items in it. But since only one person can submit a cache, it's credited to the other person.

Should I be "allowed" to log the cache as a find? There are several reasons that I want to do this. Mainly, it gets it off of my first page of caches as one I haven't found. Second, I get credit on the nifty rankings page for another cache in the state (and in Louisiana, even ONE additional cache found/hidden makes a big difference).

I know that there are many folks who hide caches with a friend, so how do you handle this?

Thanks!

-Cortney

June 13, 2003

I'm impressed by the number of responses I received, and how many people feel very passionately, one way or the other, on this topic. Debate is always good, as long as people don't take things too seriously.

To clarify, I'm not interested in "inflating" my numbers. And probably should have clarified that I'm not going to log this as a find. I just wanted to find out what people would think if I were to do so, the "ethics" per se, around such a thing. I've seen people do it, and have never been bothered by it, but don't feel right doing it myself. I like that my "find" count is accurate, and only from those which I have actually found.

I really like the suggestions made that there may some day be a way to truly credit more than one person for hiding a cache, besides allowing their name to be listed (which has been done in this case).

If you were to look at my finds, they're all legit. I even went back several months ago and changed a second "find" on a cache I had listed, since I realized I could do so (I had gone once, then gone back a second time to drop off a TB - hadn't realized that I could still drop off the TB with a note).

I wouldn't log things as a FTF, and even if I _were_ to be a pain that way, it would be too late. Already found by two folks.

The rankings on Dan's site use one number, which is a combination of your finds and hides. It's one thing I actually enjoy about the stats pages he's created, since you get credit for hiding caches.

No, it doesn't really "matter" in the long run, and it's not a competition. But it's fun to razz your buddies that you've "passed them up".

If you aren't doing this for fun, you're missing out on the whole purpose, I think.

I really like bthomas' method of helping to hide a cache. In this case, it wasn't possibly really. The guy I hid this with had already chosen the location, and I decided to make it a multi-stage (just two parts, but wanted to make it a bit more difficult, even if only in a silly manner). I'll have to remember his way for the future.

Oh, and some people _do_ give prizes for numbers of geocaches hidden. I'm co-hosting an event next month, and we're presenting awards. One of them is going to be for most caches hidden. While I'm nowhere near in the running for this, it does bring up a point. I like to give credit to people for what effort they've done to further this wonderful sport of ours (just as I financially support this website and others I frequent where I can).

June 14, 2003

Well said. The long and the short of it is that a) it's personal preference, and I have to admit watching those numbers on Dan's site is a big part of the appeal of this game to me. That is the sole reason I would (and have) logged as finds caches that I've helped hide. As for logging maintenance visits, or logging your own caches for which you've already claimed hider credit - that misses my point by a mile. I in no way advocate multiple finds on a cache. I'm only looking at this from the perspective of keeping my stats current. Besides, at the geo-events we'll all have a nice big bone to pick over beers .

Cheers!

June 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Nurse Dave & LKay:
That's a problem? I guess I'm glad I not as deeply effected as others by what is on my computer screen.

You know exactly what I mean. Say you've found all the caches within your 100 mile radius yet you still have that one cache thats 3.2 miles away that you can't find or have the predicament of the thread author. Its very annoying.

The Department of Redundancy Department

1.4k · June 14, 2003

quote:
Say you've found all the caches within your 100 mile radius yet you still have that one cache thats 3.2 miles away that you can't find or have the predicament of the thread author. Its very annoying.

Hopefully after you break that 10 finds barrier and get anywhere close to getting all the caches within 100 miles of you, things like this won't stress you out so much. Otherwise I'd be really scared to drive the same road as you if you get annoyed this easily.

---Real men cache in shorts.

June 14, 2003

<snip> I'd be really scared to drive the same road as you

Yes, that is me tailgating you, but I only wanted to see the waypoint on your GPS to check if you're going for a FTF.

4.8k · June 14, 2003

I say it is up to you. You get to make your own rules. I personally wouldn't do it, but would ask that my name be added as an extra submitter (see the above post on that). I have, however, logged finds on 2 moving caches that I didn't initially find (one of my frequent partners found them), but then helped re-hide. When I posted those finds, I noted that if the cache owner felt that it shouldn't count that I would happily change my find to a note.

Etiquette - helping to place a cache

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