Outdoor Etiquette

[mtnsteve]

Many folks that are Geocaching today are new to the woods, or perhaps have not been out in the mountains since their Boy Scout day's....since many of the caches are located in the mountains, it may be worth going over some rules about Outdoor Etiquette so we can all be more responsible out there.

 

Things like, going to the bathroom (see the thread Geocaching Packs, this is where the idea for this thread came up) , right of way on trails and leave no trace, can actually mean different things to different people, in different parts of the country. It was suggested we start a thread on today's outdoor etiquette and I think that is a great idea.

 

Some of the things I am going to start with may seem like no brainier's to some of you, but not everyone was raised in the mountains, so bear with me.

 

These "rules" are what we are following on the West Coast, they are what the Rangers and Forest service people are asking us to do...where you live, you may have different ways of doing things because of population density, terrain or other considerations.

 

Going to the bathroom....

PLEASE, pack out your toilet paper , animals WILL dig it up and scatter it all around the area. The way most folks do it is like this....you take the paper you have used and wrap it in one or two sheet's of clean paper, then place it in another zip lock bag...it's actually rather simple. You don't get any on you or on the bag you use.

 

In the desert you are actually supposed to smear the solid waste on a rock, so it can dry in the sun, then be blown away in the wind...pack out the paper.

 

On the coast, you are supposed to go in the ocean..you are not supposed to bury it in the sand.

 

Right of way on trails....

The person traveling downhill has the right of way.

Pull off the trail when you see horses or pack animals and let them pass.

Snow shoe users, please do not walk in the X-C ski tracks.

Controll your dogs!!

 

Pack it in/Pack it out means just that...

Ladies, please pack out your Tampons, etc.

Cigarette butts should be carried out in your trash, or the deer will eat them.

Do not burn foil packets in your camp fire, unless you plan to pack them out the next day.

If you carried that beer can in full, you sure as Heck can pack it out empty.

 

Leave only foot prints....

No trenches around tents.

No cutting of trees to make a quick shelter, or bed of branches.

Don't feed the animals

 

DON'T DRINK THE WATER with out treating it or filtering, unless you know it to be safe, Giardia and Crypto Sporidia are everywhere!

 

These are just a few things, please add to this list.

 

Let us know whats proper in your area.

 

Thanks....

[+Rockdoctors]

Sum it up by saying. Use common sense.

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtnsteve:

 

DON'T DRINK THE WATER with out treating it or filtering, unless you know it to be safe, Giardia and Crypto Sporidia are everywhere!

 

Thanks....

---

 

That reminds me of something I read recently..

http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm

 

Maybe giardia isn't everywhere.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[+kbraband]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rockdoctors:

_Sum it up by saying. Use common sense._

---

 

Actually it takes more than "using common sense". It takes education on the part of people who are new to the backwoods, as the creator of this topic has suggested. It's not enough to simply do what you think is right. We all have to keep educating ourselves based on the collective experience of outdoors people and those assigned to take care of wild areas.

 

At our Wisconsin Geocaching Association site, we recently posted an article on Leave No Trace. You can read more about it here: http://wi-geocaching.com/archives/apr2002.html

[mtnsteve]

Interesting article on Giardia, I may have to reevaluate......but I still will probably treat my water, old habits die hard.

 

I did get it once years ago, I suspect I have had Crypto Sporidia as well, but as I spend a third of my life in the mountains I suppose that is to be expected.

 

Great article on Leave No Trace....

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtnsteve:

Interesting article on Giardia, I may have to reevaluate......but I still will probably treat my water, old habits die hard.

 

I did get it once years ago, I suspect I have had Crypto Sporidia as well, but as I spend a third of my life in the mountains I suppose that is to be expected.

 

Great article on Leave No Trace....

---

 

I just decided not to drink San Fransico water.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[solohiker]

I refuse to pack my poop!

 

I don't want anyone else packing it either.

[+welch]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtnsteve:

....since many of the caches are located in the mountains, it may be worth going over some rules about Outdoor Etiquette so we can all be more responsible out there.

 

Thanks....

---

 

thanks for reminding those of us that know, and pointing some of the etiquette rules to those of us who dont.

 

btw- i just ran another search to double check and like i thought there are no caches in the mountains near me, or was it the other way no mountains in the caches?

 

[+Belleterre]

It's interesting that you say the person going downhill has the right-of-way where you are. I've been hiking 40+ years, mostly in Washington state, and was taught that the person hiking uphill has the right-of-way, also, a person with an overnight backpack has the right-of-way over a day hiker.

[+seneca]

Be careful not to dislodge rocks on mountain trails with switchbacks. This can be extremely dangerous for those below.

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

[mtnsteve]

Now that you mention it, I believe your right about two folks meeting on a trail, when both have overnight packs on, the up hill person has the right away.......I stand corrected.

 

With the back country skiers, it's the skier downhill who moves...... it's easier to step to the side then to guess which way the person down hill is going to move, since he is moving much slower..

 

Too much time on ski's and too much time with a big pack........

[+geospotter]

mtnsteve,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

You forgot, however, my wife's number one rule. It doesn't matter if I am going uphill or downhill, she always has the right-of-way!

[+Web-ling]

quote:

---

Originally posted by solohiker:

I refuse to pack my poop!

 

I don't want anyone else packing it either.

---

The best book I've ever read on outdoor etiquette and poop is How to Sh*t in the Woods: An Environmentally Sound Approach to a Lost Art by Kathleen Meyer. Absolutely hilarious anecdotes, plus very environmentally sound backcountry practices. A must read.

 

[+shybabe924]

quote:

---

Originally Pack it in/Pack it out means just that...

Ladies, please pack out your Tampons, etc.

---

 

I had no idea that this was a problem!

I don't even piss in the woods, much less leave something like that behind. And if you've found something like that in the woods...you shouldn't address the statement to "ladies".

 

=============

 

If life gives you lemons, squeeze the juice into a watergun and shoot other people in the eyes.

[solohiker]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Web-ling:

 

The best book I've ever read on outdoor etiquette and poop is http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898156270/qid=1025315641/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-2242520-8072940 by Kathleen Meyer. Absolutely hilarious anecdotes, plus very environmentally sound backcountry practices. A must read.

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/25021_1200.gif

---

 

I bought the book. I gave it away in one of my caches. It was not funny. Women do not understand turd humor. Ms. Meyer could not write a joke if it fell out of her @ss.

[pipedreamer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by shybabe924:

quote:

---

Originally Pack it in/Pack it out means just that...

Ladies, please pack out your Tampons, etc.

---

 

I had no idea that this was a problem!

I don't even piss in the woods, much less leave something like that behind. And if you've found something like that in the woods...you shouldn't address the statement to "ladies".

---

 

Um, first of all, if you spend any significant amount of time in the backcountry, you're gonna hafta pee. There is nothing shameful or dirty or environmentally damaging about peeing in the woods.

 

Secondly, why shouldn't the comment about tampons be addressed to ladies? Pardon me, but I don't see too many men leaving used tampons in the wilderness.

[+niskibum]

Well, aren't we the spoiled hiker!

 

Hey Bob, what's that in the ziploc bag.

Just my ahhh, leaf collection.

I didn't know you collected leaves, let me see.

NO NO thats ok, nothin special about em.

Hey, isn't that one poison ivy?

AAAAAGGGHHHHH!

 

 

Never shake hands with a left handed guy in the woods.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I pack out toliet paper unless it's the time of year that I can burn it. Some areas are so sensitive they want you to pack out ashes even.

 

But I've always left my poop where it belongs. In the ground. It's the most biodegradable substance on the planet and we wrap it in one of the least biodegradeable substances, plastic.

 

But I always do it out of the way, away from trails and camps.

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

[mtnsteve]

I just thought of something to add about peeing (never thought I'd say that), but we teach the kids to pee on the trail, bare ground or on a rock...the reason is that the deer will dig up the earth to get the salt and other minerals from it...we began to notice that they were tearing up plants and digging up around the roots of trees, possibly killing them.

 

This is something we just started last year......it's always something.......

[pipedreamer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtnsteve:

I just thought of something to add about peeing (never thought I'd say that), but we teach the kids to pee on the trail, bare ground or on a rock...the reason is that the deer will dig up the earth to get the salt and other minerals from it...we began to notice that they were tearing up plants and digging up around the roots of trees, possibly killing them.

 

This is something we just started last year......it's always something.......

---

 

Oh ferchrissake. And are you also teaching the all the deer, squirrels, chipmunks, possums, raccoons, bears and mice in the area to also do this? Get real. The amount of human pee in the woods compared to that of indiginous animals is miniscule. And you don't see deer "digging up the ground" to get to *their" pee.

 

And btw, you're teaching kids to pee right on the trail? Bad idea dude.

[mtnsteve]

Oh ferchrissake....get a clue dude

 

Our pee contains MUCH more salt then the animals does, THAT'S WHY THEY DIG IT UP.

 

Your response reminds me of when Reagan (? To paraphrase) said, trees pollute so we shouldn't worry about what we do to contribute to it.

 

I spend 10/14 days a month in the woods, I have seen the damage that this causes, that's why we changed how we do it.

 

What's wrong with peeing on the trail occasionally? We suggest doing it because it is already packed down, with nothing growing on it and the sun bleaches it out.

 

I noticed that you have never placed or found a cache...hope you plan to participate in this fine sport soon, rather then just talking about it...

 

Unless of course, you are a TROLL

 

Busted DUDE

 

 

BTW, the comment made by shybabe924, I suspect, meant that no woman that left a Tampon in the woods could be called a lady....must have gone over your head, huh.

 

[This message was edited by mtnsteve on June 28, 2002 at 11:00 PM.]

[+Criminal]

If any animal wants my pee they can have it. I’ll leave as much as I can, hopefully they’ll wait until it’s out of my bladder first. I’ll not worry about damage to the environment since the animal’s digging is “natural”.

 

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

[+Alan2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtnsteve:

I just thought of something to add about peeing (never thought I'd say that), but we teach the kids to pee on the trail...

---

 

Sorry Steve. Not to be argumentative, but I don't pee on trails. I like my privacy. My luck, the first time I'd try to do it on the trail a group of ten year old girls scouts would come along and I'd get arrested for "exposure"

 

Alan

[+kbraband]

The differences in opinion about peeing in the woods and other forms of outdoor etiquette seem to arise in large part to where people usually geocache. Those who travel into Western states backcountry and hike for hours without seeing another person have a different take on geocaching than those who spend most of their time in city, county, and state parks.

[pipedreamer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtnsteve:

Oh ferchrissake....get a clue dude

 

Our pee contains MUCH more salt then the animals does, THAT'S WHY THEY DIG IT UP.

---

 

Beep, wrong. Here's a hint: humans are animals. And I repeated, deer do not "dig up" other animal's pee. What did you learn this with, the Boy Scouts? Do you also dig a big trench around your tent when you go camping to drain the rainwater away? Sheesh.

 

And as far as telling kids to expose themselves and pee right on the trail, what you are teaching is very, very poor etiquette. And dangerous as well, especially for females. Not to mention that, according to you, the deer will come along and "dig up" the trail. LOL.

[+niskibum]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtnsteve:

I just thought of something to add about peeing (never thought I'd say that), but we teach the kids to pee on the trail, bare ground or on a rock...the reason is that the deer will dig up the earth to get the salt and other minerals from it...we began to notice that they were tearing up plants and digging up around the roots of trees, possibly killing them.

 

This is something we just started last year......it's always something.......

---

 

As an avid deer hunter I can tell you that if you pee near where you set up a stand to hunt you won't be filling many tags. I think you may be confusing this digging up the ground with what is known as a deer scrape. This is what bucks do in the rut to "mark their territory". It has been going on for as long as deer have been around without any noticable harm to the enviroment. If you want to see some real damage check out an elk rub. They practically destroy an area, but in another year you would be hard pressed to find the spot again, because mother nature is a lot tougher than you give her credit for. She recalaims my backyard every spring even though I weedeat and roundup every few months.

 

I would like to know where you got your info, do you have any studies to back up your claims or is this just a casual observation on your part? Where did you get the data on the amount of salt in human urine, and wouldn't this vary greatly due to diet?

[+shybabe924]

quote:

---

Um, first of all, if you spend any significant amount of time in the backcountry, you're gonna hafta pee. There is nothing shameful or dirty or environmentally damaging about peeing in the woods.

 

Secondly, why _shouldn't_ the comment about tampons be addressed to ladies? Pardon me, but I don't see too many _men_ leaving used tampons in the wilderness.

---

 

1. It is my personal preference not to pee in the woods, I never said there was anything dirty or shameful about it. I just prefer to wait! There isn't much back country around here, so that isn't a problem for me.

 

2. I never said it was men leaving tampons in the wilderness. I said that it should be addressed to someone other than ladies if tampons in the woods are a problem-- meaning that maybe those women are of a different breed, and ladies doesn't quite fit them

 

=============

 

If life gives you lemons, squeeze the juice into a watergun and shoot other people in the eyes.

[+Alan2]

Truth be known, my wife keeps an eye open and notes where the local McDonalds, Dunkin' DOnuts and similar establishments are on the way as their bathrooms are usually pretty clean. Since we basically cache urban/surbaban areas, these are usually closeby and great places to visit after caching for a side of onion rings or a toasted coconut donut after you've relieved yourself.

 

Yummy.

 

Alan

[mtnsteve]

niskibum.....

 

I have to admit that my evidence about the deer is anecdotal, for the last 15 years, in the Trinity Alps, in Northern CA, everyone that I have talked to has mentioned that the deer always go to where they pee and dig up the dirt...the kids on our trips started to pee just outside their tent's and the deer ALWAYS came right up to the spot and dug it up.

 

As I mentioned, I am up there 10/14 days a month and I have observed this behavior for the last 15 years.

 

As to the salt content of our pee, I SUSPECT that since animals get very little natural salt in their diet, compared to our diet, that is what the deer are after...I have never observed the deer digging up around bear, fox, or their own pee.

 

My partner is an avid hunter, born and raised in Canada, he believes that it is for the salt as well...because this has stirred up such an avid debate I will check with some of the local hunters and wildlife specialists and see what they believe.

 

Alan2....

 

Ken & Robin....

 

I believe your right, around here we can hike for days and not see another person...it's not like that with the caches in and around town. Most of our mountain caches are level 4/5, they don't get much response compared with the rest of the caches.

 

 

pipedreamer....

 

I don't deal with trolls......go away boy, you bother me.

 

[This message was edited by mtnsteve on June 29, 2002 at 06:54 PM.]

[CachePenguins]

We take our dogs hiking with us, and always pack out anything they might leave behind. It's been years since I did any backcountry hiking, but remember all too well the edict "Leave No Trace. No, seriously, when we say NO TRACE, that means pack extra ziplocs."

 

I know a lot of people cache with their dogs. Hope y'all are carrying plastic bags too.

[pipedreamer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by CachePenguins:

We take our dogs hiking with us, and always pack out anything they might leave behind. It's been years since I did any backcountry hiking, but remember all too well the edict "Leave No Trace. No, seriously, when we say NO TRACE, that means pack extra ziplocs."

---

Talk about political correctness gone haywire! (rolling on the floor laughing here).

 

You might want to review the Leave No Trace principles you claim to know "all too well". LNT outdoor ethics do NOT require you walk around in the woods with your pack filled with plastic-wrapped excrement, LOL. LNT recommends burying poop, NOT packing it out. Poop is a 100% natural substance which has been biodegrading in the environment for millions of years.

 

What is unnatural is to wrap feces tightly in plastic and put it in a garbage can, which must then be emptied by a gas-guzzling, polluting truck and taken to a landfill where it putrefies inside its non-biodegradable plastic container along with millions of pounds of other noxious trash.

 

quote:

---

I know a lot of people cache with their dogs. Hope y'all are carrying plastic bags too.

---

Nope. You of course are free to follow my dog around with your little ziplocks if you like. Oh and don't forget extra ziplocks to pick up all that nasty, polluting deer, chipmunk, possum, raccoon, mouse, bear, squirrel and bat poop while you're at it.

 

PD (who can only imagine how disgusting cachepengiuin's pack must smell)

 

[This message was edited by pipedreamer on June 30, 2002 at 07:03 AM.]

[+Alan2]

I'm thinking of going back wods caching on horseback. What size Ziplock do you recommend?

 

alan

[pipedreamer]

This might help. I'd suggest the elk size for your horse.

 

CORRECT POOP BAG SIZES SORTED BY SPECIES

 

Mouse: 2 x 3

Vole: 2 x 3

Chipmunk: 3 x 4

Squirrel: 3 x 4

Muskrat: 4 x 4

Beaver: 4 x 5

Skunk: 4 x 5

Weasel: 4 x 6

Bobcat: 6 x 6

Couger: 6 x 8

Wolf: 6 x 10

Bear (brown or black): 8 x 10

Bear (grizzly): 10 x 10

Deer: 10 x 12

Elk: 12 x 14

Moose: 14 x 18

 

Note: Bags come in a variety of designer colors!

[+Team Screamapillar]

"I know a lot of people cache with their dogs. Hope y'all are carrying plastic bags too. [smile]"

 

If you like, the next time my dog takes a dump off trail in a 600 acre forest I'll let you know & you can go find it. E-mail me for coordinates if you have any trouble.

 

 

For those of you who don't get it, my point is that a dog doing his thing in an isolated, off-trail wooded area (yes, yes- away from water supplies) does not affect you- you couldn't find it before it decomposes if you tried to.

 

[This message was edited by Team Screamapillar on July 02, 2002 at 07:08 AM.]

[+scoobydum]

Alan !!!

 

Everyone else - I'll carry out truckloads of beer cans/bottles, foil, plastic, paper, etc... But I'll have to draw the line at carrying bags of turds around in my pack.

 

As far as pee goes, if you're REALLY p-c, try this... RECYCLING: Build a vapor-catch. You pee in a plastic container and when the water evaporates, it is caught by a drip system so you can dispose of the salty solids properly (you decide how) and re-drink the water from your own pee! I'm sure you can find plans somewhere out here on the information super-wasteland for 'how to build your own outdoor urine recycling device'. Me... I'll go behind a tree. I'll give it some thought next time I think about peeing on or near a plant. This is not because I'm worried about deer digging it up, but more because I may have to use that plant to WIPE with!

 

Don't get me wrong. When I'm in the mountains (often) and hiking the back-country, it tears me up when I see trash laying around. You almost expect it driving down the freeway, but in the mountains?! It takes a certain type of person to work his/her butt off to get to a remote high-mountain lake by foot. You'd think that if they're up there in the first place, they'd have some sort of appreciation for the pristine beauty of the area and not add the bright and shiney colors of urban refuse to the view. End of rant. Thanks for putting up with me.

 

m

 

Mike "mighkel" Underwood

Boise, ID

------------------------

STURGEON GENERAL WARNING: Fishing can decrease the risk of long-term employment, a meaningful relationship, and any chance of financial independence... Oh well.

[+geospotter]

pipedream,

 

I, for one, appreciate mtnsteve's suggestions regarding outdoor etiquette. You remember etiquette don't you? It's respect for other people. Manners.

 

Just like I wouldn't consider leaving a dump in your living room or any other area you might walk (though, as you point out, it IS perfectly natural), I would hope you wouldn't leave your's where I might walk. Being natural has nothing to do with etiquette. It's all about respect. I don't burp loudly in public, I chew with my mouth closed, etc. ALL unnatural, but all done out of respect for others.

 

You may laugh about elk sized baggies, but in the Caribbean, horses used in public areas must wear diapers. No droppings allowed. It is not inconceivable that in the future parks and forests might implement that here also. Dogs are already prohibited from parks around water supplies. (Gee, I wonder why.)

 

Anyway, forget about what is natural and consider what is respectful.

 

[This message was edited by geospotter on June 30, 2002 at 09:44 AM.]

[+Team Screamapillar]

Geospotter, your argument hinges on the key concept of CONTEXT. There is a proper time and place for everything. What I allow my dog to do in the woods is different from what he may do in a city park, on a sidewalk or in the lobby of the post office (from which he is banned entirely).

 

I will continue to burp loudly, but only in the woods, ok?

[pipedreamer]

quote:

---

Just like I wouldn't consider leaving a dump in your living room or any other area you might walk (though, as you point out, it IS perfectly natural), I would hope you wouldn't leave your's where I might walk.

---

 

Okay well here's a head's up for ya then: On our last backcountry trip, my dog pooped somewhere in the Tongass National Forest. Near a big tree. The park is only 16.8 million acres in size, so watch your step.

[+geospotter]

Somehow I knew the respect thing would go right over your head.

 

16.8 million acres. Do you use that same logic when you throw down a candy wrapper there?

[+Team Screamapillar]

Geospotter, if you can't tell the difference between a dog turd and a candy wrapper, I'm not trick-or-treating at your house.

[CachePenguins]

I knew I should have clarified that. I live in the middle of a city. Most of our hiking is done on urban trails or in the very near suburban parks. The law around here is that you pick up after your dog and cart it out. Whether that makes sense to you or not, I'm sorry, but encasing dog crap in plastic is what you do or you get a ticket. Personally, I'll pick up whatever it takes to keep dogs permissible in well-visited parks.

 

As for the LNT thing, I never said "pack out your own poop", I said "bring extra ziplocs". Packing out toilet paper, tampons, and other waste-related waste is part of the LNT guidelines; so is digging a 6-8" cathole 200 ft from a water source to use for solid waste.

 

By the way, the largest ziploc I could find on a quick search was 13x18" 6 mil thickness. Perhaps that would suit the needs of AlanB's horse. Thirty cents each but you have to buy a case of 250.

[mtnsteve]

Were kinda at that common sense thingy that Rockdoctors mentioned...

 

If I am in the middle of the wilderness, miles away from anyone, I don't pack out my dogs solid waste (I will kick it far off the train though), if I am in our local park, or on one of the local bike/hiking trails I will pack it out.

 

I remember when you just dropped your pants while on El Cap and let it fall, when you could just find a spot on Mt Shasta and Lassen and take care of your business, when you didn't have to worry about stepping in dog crap on the local walking trails and when horses didn't have to wear diapers (now that's funny, sad, but funny), when you could drink water right out of the lake or stream, and when you could just load up the truck and head for the mountains....

 

Unfortunately, now with so many folks in the mountains and on the trails, much of that has changed....changed because there are just too many folks out there and SOME are lazy, unthinking, ignorant and too concerned with their own "rights" to be aware how it affects others....

 

....now you must make reservations to go into the back country in many place's, use kitty litter and bags on the big wall's of Yosemite and on mountains like Shasta, now they actually have patrol's to be sure you pick up after your dog on local trails and hand out tickets if you don't and Giardia and Crypto Sporidia are now household words.....

 

(I know that it's carried by animal feces and wild animals don't bury their waste, but it is also carried by dogs and humans) Actually this may be overstated see this.. http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm thanks to georgeandmary for the link.

 

I suppose it comes down to this, some folks will use common sense and respect other's rights and feelings...others couldn't give a crap (pun intended) and because of that, we will some day have laws that will require ALL of us to pack out our waste, make reservations just to go day hiking and actually see us banned in some places....all the while the clods will be complaining about our "rights" being taken away....when they are the ones responsible for us losing them in the first place.

 

and yes, I was one of those clods years ago, but I learned from my mistakes and while I may still be a bit of a clod at times......I'm much better now......

 

[This message was edited by mtnsteve on June 30, 2002 at 12:03 PM.]

[Tahosa and Sons]

As per one of the principles of LNT:

Dispose of Waste Properly

 

Pack it in, pack it out. Inspect your campsite and rest areas for trash or spilled foods. Pack out all trash, leftover food, and litter.

 

Deposit solid human waste in catholes dug 6 to 8 inches deep at least 200 feet from water, camp, and trails. Cover and disguise the cathole when finished.

 

Pack out toilet paper and hygiene products.

 

To wash yourself or your dishes, carry water 200 feet away from streams or lakes and use small amounts of biodegradable soap. Scatter strained dishwater.

 

In the winter since you can't dig in the frozen mountains, pack it all out. And don't assume its some strange brownies after it's frozen. Just deposit in your trash bin.

 

No Fecal, here is a real link to the problem:

 

http://research.nols.edu/PDFdocs/humanwastepaper.pdf

 

The "Bushwhacker"

Exitus acta probat

>>--->

 

[This message was edited by Bushwhacker on June 30, 2002 at 01:05 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by Bushwhacker on June 30, 2002 at 01:08 PM.]

[pipedreamer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bushwhacker:

As per one of the principles of LNT: (snip)

---

 

The principles of LNT have been rehashed in this thread over and over.

 

All the principles are clearly stated here:

http://www.lnt.org/

 

The main topics here are discussions of some of the sillier statements make by those who either believe outdoor myths, don't understand LNT or take it to an politically-correct extreme.

 

To sum it up: It's okay to pee in the woods, and no, deer don't "dig up" the woods trying lick the salt from people's urine. Do your business well off the trail, never on it. "Pack in it, pack it out" should always be practiced when it comes to trash and food scraps. But telling others to ziplock poop (whether dog or human) and carry it out in their packs is patently ridiculous.

[+Alan2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team Screamapillar:

Geospotter, if you can't tell the difference between a dog turd and a candy wrapper, I'm not trick-or-treating at your house.

---

 

Take a Ziplock.

 

Alan

[+Alan2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by CachePenguins:

...By the way, the largest ziploc I could find on a quick search was 13x18" 6 mil thickness. Perhaps that would suit the needs of AlanB's horse. Thirty cents each but you have to buy a case of 250.

---

 

250 bags? I'm not hunting with a posse! On the other hand, I should figure the horse will go a number of times going to and from the cache. How much in weight do you figure? Would it be convenient to take a shovel to scoop it in to the Ziplocks? Where do I dispose of it when I get back? Will the horse be psychologically damaged if it realizes it's carrying it's own poop? I could use a diaper but the thought of riding off into the sunset on a horse with one of those will destroy my visions of the wild west.

 

Actually, the horses in NYC around Central Park that pull the Hansen carriages do wear diapers. But then again they're on Fifth Avenue as well as in the park. You know if you think polution is bad today with the automobile, you cannot imagine the amount of horse poop on the streets of NYC around the turn of the last century before the horseless carriage. There was a whole industry just to clean up the mess! Egads!

 

 

Alan

[mtncycler]

I'm a "lady" that lives in Canada, and have camped and hiked in the Rocky mountains, for years. I was part of Search and Rescue and at one time taught Junior Forest Rangers. When hiking/camping, leave the place the same way you found it. As far as bathroom etiquette, Digging a hole 3-4ft deep, use one ply biodegradable toilet paper and ladies, there are biodegradable tampons on the market these days...the wrappers must NOT be buried!

watch out for bears!!

[pipedreamer]

quote:

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As far as bathroom etiquette, Digging a hole 3-4ft deep

---

 

Three or four FEET deep?

 

And someone was worried about deer causing damage?

[Dru Morgan]

Even if that is protocol, after my morning Starbucks, I would be hard pressed to wait that long when nature called. Sometimes I can barely make it out of bed quick enough.

 

Everywhere that cache is found,

Bound to Cover Just a Little More Ground.

-Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com/dru

[mtnsteve]

Ok folks, about the deer digging up your urine to eat the salt....this is the response I have gotten so far....

 

this is from the LNT site...

"Urine: Urine has little direct effect on vegetation or soil. In some instances urine may draw wildlife which are attracted to the salts. They can defoliate plants and dig up soil. Urinating on rocks, pine needles, and gravel is less likely to attract wildlife. Diluting urine with water from a water bottle can help minimize negative effects."

http://www.lnt.org/TeachingLNT/background/dispose.htm

 

Check some of the response's I got at a backpacking site ...

Example..

"During our "briefing" before heading out into the backcountry at Glacier, the ranger advised we whiz on the trail if we had to go while hiking. She said this helped minimize impact from animals pawing up the area for the salt."

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread.php?id=15022&age=1

 

This is from the Columbia Cascades Cluster (NPS)...

"Urinate on rocks and gravel well away from camp. Salt starved deer and mountain goats can cause dramatic damage as they paw up soil and defoliate plants looking for newly deposited salts from urine."

http://www.nps.gov/ccso/leave.htm