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Do you read TERMS AND CONDITIONS?

Jomarac5

By Jomarac5
in General geocaching topics

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parkrrrr

+parkrrrr

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

3. Are any pictures/data loaded before the TOS (TOU) grandfathered 'out' of those TOS(TOU)? -- In other words, is the intellectual property that we uploaded prior to the new TOU exempt from the current TOU?

Somewhere, you posted the Terms that were in effect when you originally agreed to them (assuming that the "by using this site you agree to our terms of use" sort of mumbo-jumbo would actually hold up in court, and notwithstanding the fact that you have also agreed to the current terms by using the site.) I can't find them now, but I seem to remember that the last paragraph said something to the effect of "we reserve the right to change these terms at any time." I suspect that a good lawyer could successfully argue that the current terms - being a (highly) edited version of the original terms - cover everything that the original terms covered, meaning anything you uploaded prior to the "new" agreement. If you have a problem with that, it looks like your only recourse is to get a lawyer of your own.

 

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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quote:
Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy wrote:

but I seem to remember that the last paragraph said something to the effect of "we reserve the right to change these terms at any time."

Words to that effect are in the new agreement. There was nothing like that in the original agreement.

 

*****

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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quote:
Warm Fuzzies Fuzzy wrote:

Grounded Inc. reserves the right to change the terms, conditions, and notices under which this website is offered.

So it does. Looks like they got their slippery words in there. Seems pretty vague to me. And it doesn't necesarily mean that I agree to the new terms just because they post them.

 

What it all boils down to people, is that everyone *needs* to read Terms agreements. Just because they are written out on a website, doesn't make them right. I cringe every time someone says "well, it's just standard legal mumbo-jumbo". Nothing is standard. It's lawyers talking for their own benefit. Ol' Bill was right.

 

67% of all those who responded to the poll at the beginning of this thread said that they rarely or never read the terms. Protect yourself folks -- read them, and don't agree to anything that you don't think is right.

 

*****

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TEAM 360

+TEAM 360

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

quote:
Warm Fuzzies Fuzzy wrote:

Grounded Inc. reserves the right to change the terms, conditions, and notices under which this website is offered.

So it does. Looks like they got their slippery words in there. *****

 

I guess you missed that part. Looks like you didn't REALLY read the TOU when you signed up, huh? Oops. icon_wink.gif

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY OFF TOPIC

 

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

Pan, you've got some nasty JPEG compression artifacts there. What'd you do?

 

I'm not sure. I just right clicked and "saved as." I'm on my work computer, and the thing is on its last leg.

 

It looks pretty good to me, from here.

 

By the by, Warm Fuzzies and/or Fuzzy, Ive been meaning to ask you, is your sig line a spoof on a "Silly Song With Larry?" Or are the Silly Song From Larry verses a spoof on another song.

 

I've been to Boston in the fall.

 

Pan

 

Swallow a live toad first thing in the morning, and chances are that nothing worse will happen to you for the rest of the day. - Unknown

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Planet

+Planet

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Posted

Not only do I not thoroughly read terms and conditions, because it gives me a headache, I cannot wade through this five page B****fest of J5's. Kill the thread!!! The thread must die. If you don't want to agree with it, there is always the Nword.com See ya. Pantalomian, love the avatar.

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

So many caches, so little time.

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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Planet wrote:

Not only do I not thoroughly read terms and conditions, because it gives me a headache...

Can't say I'm surprised to hear this. As I've said, some don't get it -- I guess you're one of them.

 

I like Pantalaimon's new avatar as well -- it's very cool. And btw, just to keep this thread on topic, it's fine with me that he uses it -- it's rather flattering. Thanks Pan.

 

*****

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parkrrrr

+parkrrrr

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pantalaimon:

By the by, Warm Fuzzies and/or Fuzzy, Ive been meaning to ask you, is your sig line a spoof on a "Silly Song With Larry?" Or are the Silly Song From Larry verses a spoof on another song.

Fuzzy, if you please. "Warm Fuzzies" is the team name. When I picked this name, I thought that would be obvious. Apparently, I was wrong.

 

My signature is one of many thousands of possible spoofs on the song from "Silly Songs With Larry." You'll notice that if you hit reload, it changes. Collect 'em all!

 

(And, sorta on topic: I'm willing to share the code that makes the poems, but I'll warn you ahead of time that it requires your webserver to have access to programs that most people don't have installed, and it requires you to be able to run arbitrary CGI scripts, for which most webhosts want you to pay extra. I would prefer that you change the list of possible lines it works with, though.)

 

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

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Well, I've been operating without a Avatar for some time now. This one is starting to grow on me... so, if you're flattered, maybe it will stay around!

 

On a side note, I don't like how once I change my avatar, every avatar on every post changes. I think once you post with an avatar, it shouldn't change. Once I change my avatar, no one will get this joke.

 

By the by J5, it was a joke.

 

Pan

 

Swallow a live toad first thing in the morning, and chances are that nothing worse will happen to you for the rest of the day. - Unknown

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

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quote:
Fuzzy, if you please. "Warm Fuzzies" is the team name. When I picked this name, I thought that would be obvious. Apparently, I was wrong.

 

Sorry, my bad. I thought Warm Fuzzies was your mate, or partner, or significant other, or dog or something. I haven't see anyone else around here called "Warm Fuzzies - Lint" or "Warm Fuzzies - Warm" or even "Warm Fuzzies - Hootchie Mama", so I didn't know it was a team name.

 

I beg your forgiveness. icon_frown.gif

 

quote:
My signature is one of many thousands of possible spoofs on the song from "Silly Songs With Larry." You'll notice that if you hit reload, it changes. Collect 'em all!

 

Thanks for offering the sig line, I like it alot. But since I can't even copy an avatar without being labeled a technodinosaur... I think I'll pass.

 

However, if I come up with any verses you might like to add to your program, I'll pass them along.

 

How aboot:

 

And I've never posted insults

And I've never threatened newbies

And I've never argued more than I have argued with y'all

And I don't like double posting

And my threads aren't always funny

And I've never been to Boston in the fall

 

Pan

 

Swallow a live toad first thing in the morning, and chances are that nothing worse will happen to you for the rest of the day. - Unknown

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parkrrrr

+parkrrrr

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pantalaimon:

Sorry, my bad. I thought Warm Fuzzies was your mate, or partner, or significant other, or dog or something. I haven't see anyone else around here called "Warm Fuzzies - Lint" or "Warm Fuzzies - Warm" or even "Warm Fuzzies - Hootchie Mama", so I didn't know it was a team name.

Warm's smart enough to stay out of the forums. I could learn a lot from her.....

 

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

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Okay. The gig is up. I've found a avatar theme that I think I'll be going with for a while. You can have yours back J5.

 

Thanks for the loan.

 

While I was searching for my avatar, I thought of another question that may revive this thread a bit. Let me ask you this: What if, and this is a big if, Groundspeak came out and said that the only purpose for which they would use images uploaded to this site was for "operation and promotion of the site" would take satisfy you that your images were protected?

 

I have follow up questions, but I'm curious as to your answer to this first.

 

Pan

 

Swallow a live toad first thing in the morning, and chances are that nothing worse will happen to you for the rest of the day. - Unknown

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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quote:
Pan wrote:

What if, and this is a big if, Groundspeak came out and said that the only purpose for which they would use images uploaded to this site was for "operation and promotion of the site" would take satisfy you that your images were protected?

As I've mentioned several times in this thread, this would be fine with me as long as it isn't vaguely worded.

 

It's the following wording that gives them 'unlimited' license to the photos that doesn't sit well.

 

<snip>

By submitting any Submission to Groundspeak, You grant Groundspeak a worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, perpetual, irrevocable, fully-paid royalty-free license and right to use, reproduce, distribute, import, broadcast, transmit, modify and create derivative works of, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease or lend copies of, publicly display and publicly perform that Submission for any purpose and without restriction or obligation to You.

</snip>

 

And also:

 

<snip>

and to create new Sites or derivative works (including without limitation by combining the Submission with other content) for public display or performance via any and all media or technology now known or later developed. The foregoing rights may be licensed and sublicensed through unlimited tiers of third parties.

</snip>

 

I would grant permission *only* for the sole purpose of "operation and promotion of the site" (they would need to specify the URL of the site or sites). I will not give my permission to use this information for *any* other purpose.

 

I don't see how this would be unreasonable.

 

*****

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

 

As I've mentioned several times in this thread, this would be fine with me as long as it isn't vaguely worded.

 

 

Look, I apologize for not being able to review this entire thread to recap your points, but its five pages right now, cut me the tiniest bit of slack.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

 

I would grant permission *only* for the sole purpose of "operation and promotion of the site" (they would need to specify the URL of the site or sites). I will not give my permission to use this information for *any* other purpose.

 

 

Well, okay. So if you agree that Groundspeak can use your uploads for promotion of the site, can't they couch their use of your photos (etc.) as "promotion of the site" no matter what media they use them in?

 

For example, Groundspeak publishes a promotional book called "Photos of Geocaching," which we all know would shoot straight to the top of the Barnes and Noble Bestsellers list. The book is bespeckled with "geocaching.com" all over it (in order to promote the site), but alas! 90% of the photos turn out to be yours. The book, however, the brainchild of some lackey in the basement of Groundspeak is originally created, sold, published, etc. "for the promotion of geocaching." (with no ill intent to do otherwise.)

 

Are you happy with this? Even if the money the book makes while "promoting" geocaching is promptly transferred into Jeremy's coffers?

 

My point: Even if you restrict your permission to "operation and promotion" of the site, isn't that "promotion" part a little tricky?

 

Pan

 

Swallow a live toad first thing in the morning, and chances are that nothing worse will happen to you for the rest of the day. - Unknown

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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Pan wrote:

My point: Even if you restrict your permission to "operation and promotion" of the site, isn't that "promotion" part a little tricky?

It could be, but doesn't necessarily need to be. Worded as simply as you've put it would probably be too vague. If the wording states that the property is used exclusively for promoting the site, which could include, publishing of books, posters, videos, and other promotional materials then it would be fine, even if doing so were to make a profit -- so long as the focus of the usage is to promote the site which is specified with a URL.

 

They could also use it for many different applications such as banner ads to be displayed on other sites, but it would have to *directly* promote the specified website.

 

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THE GUESSTEAMMATES

THE GUESSTEAMMATES

Posted
Posted

and on and on and on

 

J5, here are some questions for you:

 

1) What do YOU think Groundspeak is going to do with YOUR intellectual property?

 

2) How much money do you think Groundspeak will make from using YOUR intellectual property?

 

3) Do you think gc.com is a malevolent entity out to do you injustice?

 

4) Why do you continue using this site if YOU don't agree with the terms?

 

5) Why do you think everyone else should pay so much attention to this issue?

 

6) When are you going to 'let it go'?

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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Why are you yelling Zuuky?

 

Go back and read the thread and you'll have the answers to most of your questions. The only questions that you wont get the answers to are numbers 2 and 3. And the answer to those is: I don't know and I don't think so.

 

Why are you so bent out of shape about this? If you don't like it, go back to your supposed self exile or stop looking at this thread.

 

Chill out Zuuk. The veins in your forehead are going to start popping out.

 

*****

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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Altruistic? Why don't you lay down on the couch and just say what you mean Zuuky?

 

There was a pleasant on-topic conversation happening here between Pan and I and then you came in with this, what?... I'm not sure what it is, but you're way, way, off base here.

 

Take a chill pill Zuuky, and take note that I'll no longer respond to that which you know not about.

 

*****

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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So, am I to assume that the good folks at GeoCaching.com are going to ignore this thread as they have with several other past threads that presented topical issues?

 

As a reminder, here are the 3 questions:

 

1. Is there some other use planned for the intellectual property of those who use this site?

 

2. When did the terms of service (Terms of Use) take effect?

 

3. Are any pictures/data loaded before the TOS (TOU) grandfathered 'out' of those TOS(TOU)? -- In other words, is the intellectual property that we uploaded prior to the new TOU exempt from the current TOU?

 

*****

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mckee

mckee

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

So, am I to assume that the good folks at GeoCaching.com are going to ignore this thread as they have with several other past threads that presented topical issues?

 

As a reminder, here are the 3 questions:

 

1. Is there some other use planned for the intellectual property of those who use this site?

 

2. When did the terms of service (Terms of Use) take effect?

 

3. Are any pictures/data loaded before the TOS (TOU) grandfathered 'out' of those TOS(TOU)? -- In other words, is the intellectual property that we uploaded prior to the new TOU exempt from the current TOU?

 

*****

 

Talk about gun rights. That will get some attention.

 

--------------------

This space for rent! Ask about our easy layaway plan!

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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quote:
Originally posted by mckee:

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

So, am I to assume that the good folks at GeoCaching.com are going to ignore this thread as they have with several other past threads that presented topical issues?

 

As a reminder, here are the 3 questions:

 

1. Is there some other use planned for the intellectual property of those who use this site?

 

2. When did the terms of service (Terms of Use) take effect?

 

3. Are any pictures/data loaded before the TOS (TOU) grandfathered 'out' of those TOS(TOU)? -- In other words, is the intellectual property that we uploaded prior to the new TOU exempt from the current TOU?

 

*****

Talk about gun rights. That will get some attention.

 

Gun talk would probably work, but then so would a lot of other questions that have never been answered, like "Who are the Admin/Approvers?".

 

Thanks for the suggestion mckee, but at this time, it would be best to wait for the answer to come without starting any new topics.

 

*****

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

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Another week passes and still no answers.

 

1. Is there some other use planned for the intellectual property of those who use this site?

 

2. When did the terms of service (Terms of Use) take effect?

 

3. Are any pictures/data loaded before the TOS (TOU) grandfathered 'out' of those TOS(TOU)? -- In other words, is the intellectual property that we uploaded prior to the new TOU exempt from the current TOU?

 

*****

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

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Posted

Hey Jomarac5,

 

I can answer question 1 for you now. The answer is "yes."

 

Look here..

 

Granted, one could argue that the pictures are being voluntarily submitted for the purpose of creating the calendar... but hypothetically, I could thumb through all the pictures posted to geocaching.com and submit them... because gc.com has the right to use them already.

 

Comments?

 

Pan

 

What does anybody want? I want the Red Sox to win the World Series. - Bill Pullman as Alan Safian in Malice, in response to being asked "What do you want?"

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