Weird question relating to "a bad place to put a cache"

October 27, 2003

Last night I went to a location in Vermont about which I had often thought "This'd be a neat location for a cache." It was a public rest area along I-89, not one with services (that's further along the interstate) but with parking and a few trails to walk your dog, and, incongruously, odd concrete sculptures that someone in the Vermont Agency of Transportation must have thought would look good there.

I had a cache with an interstate theme all ready to place, but when I got to the rest area, I noticed a LOT of empty cars parked there, and a few cars with single men sort of standing around in front of them, boredly smoking cigarettes. At first I thought "well, they've just pulled over to rest for a minute before continuing on down the highway," but then a couple of them headed off up the dog-walking paths into the woods, and they didn't exactly have dogs with them. I waited for a bit to see if they'd come back down the hill (I naively thought they'd gone up into the woods to pee) so I could sneak up with my cache, my GPS, and my headlamp and place the cache back well in the woods.

They didn't come back down. They stayed gone, up in the woods on a dark rainy night. Either they were chasing the legendary short-tailed Vermont forest bat or they were, um, doing something else.

One of the guys standing around eventually gave *me* a look and headed up into the woods himself. He was gone five minutes, but eventually came down the hill again and gave me a very puzzled look. I looked blankly at him, and he took up station in front of his car again.

Yes, most people wouldn't take this long to realize what was going on, but I did. Call me sheltered. I looked the rest area up on Google later and found it referred to in a few places as a well known rendezvous spot for anonymous sex, so it wasn't my imagination.

I won't be placing the cache there; I figure it would stand close to a 100% chance of accidental finding by folks seeking a dry spot up in the woods, given the frequent nocturnal excursions up there, and in any case, I read on one website about the Vermont state police periodically going up into the woods with searchlights. The last thing I need is to read about geocachers up in the woods after dusk, logging a cache find, getting rolled by the cops who think they're there doing something else entirely.

Interestingly, one of my fellow Vermont geocachers, told about my experience, promptly said "we should reclaim that area by placing a cache there and making it plain in the cache description that we're reclaiming the area for non-sexual uses." I sort of went "um, you go right ahead."

Has anyone else found that an area they'd spotted as a potential cache location had to be disqualified for anything remotely like this, or, worse, found after placing a cache, that the location in question was getting used for similar purposes? Do you have any other advice relating to this?

-- Jay Furr,

Richmond, VT

October 27, 2003

I have noticed this sort of activity in several of the parking-lot parks in my area. Took me a little bit to figure it out myself (not being one patrolling for action makes one a little ignorant initially - I was trying to figure why all these guys were on their lunch break but not eating lunch - duh!).

It has prevented me from placing a few caches in areas I thought would be good. And they would be good spots if not for this type of activity. Nice scenic areas, ruined. Not bashing the men for their preferences, just bashing them for ruining public places for the general public.

Anways, in my area a cache did get placed by in this type of location, a small fort park that saw light male 'hunting' activity..... the cache was looted/ransacked/destroyed a short time later. Who knows if its was related to the 'hunters'....

I'd generally avoid these areas for placement. If nothing else, you're more likely to step in something nasty on the way to the cache....

1.1k · October 27, 2003

We have a park where I live where the same sort of thing goes on, I have heard these places referred to as pickle parks, uhmmm, yea ok... My friends and I have mtb'd there for years and it is an ongoing joke between us.

I have seen more 'pickle activity' than I care to share or that would be appropriate. Even had a very similiar experience to yours while waiting for my biking friends to show up. OK, so as a straight male it makes me uncomfortable to be hit on by another man in a park. But beyond that I think these guys are 'harmless' to anyone except themselves. (another topic, but would you treat/assist a strange injured hiker in one of these parks?)

What I will not do is take my son into these areas. Explaining to a 4 year old why 2 men are uh, doing things in the woods isn't real high on my Fatherly TO-DO list. I think if a cache is going to be placed in a park where this activity is going on the cache owner has a responsibility to communicate that to others in the cache page. Part of the fun of this sport is finding NEW parks with my family. Parks that may or may not be 'Pickled'.

Took: McToy

Left: My son's innocence.

Understand what? My purpose? You know that. To find the Tower is my purpose. I'm sworn.

-Roland, The Gunslinger

October 27, 2003

Maybe you could place a virtual cache here. I think a bunch of cachers in the woods running around with digital cameras trying to "log the cache" might cut down on the unwanted activity.

I'd hate to review the cache page though.

Pan

Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do,

Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you...

Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?"

October 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Pantalaimon:
Maybe you could place a virtual cache here. I think a bunch of cachers in the woods running around with digital cameras trying to "log the cache" might cut down on the unwanted activity.

That's a BEAUTIFUL idea.

"Hey, guys, hold on a second while I get a GPS fix on your coordinates. OK, done. OK, now smile for the camera."

Man, though, as owner of that cache, verifying that everyone had complied with the rules of the cache and posted the right 'proof' would be, um, gnarly.

5.7k · October 27, 2003

A fellow cacher once posted a log at a cache site that was in a smiliar rendezvous spot. He took out his camera and started taking pictures of peoples license plates and it was amazing how fast the parking lot cleared...

--Marky

...Be nice to your fellow geocachers, they might be Hemlock...

1.4k · October 27, 2003

A few months ago I had the misfortune of looking for a cache that was placed at a rest stop near Vancouver. While looking for the cache I happened to witness exactly what these guys were doing there. Apparently, this is a common activity at rest stops throughout North America. We learned after this incident that truck drivers refer to rest areas as 'pickle parks'.

I notified my local police department and they were very aware of the activities going on at rest stops but didn't seem the least bit interested in stopping it.

My suggestion would be to avoid placing caches at rest stops.

*****

24.7k · October 27, 2003

Geocaching has a way of getting people out into the real world. The one that was always there but that we missed out on while watching TV or doing whatever it was that we did before geocaching came along.

Reclaming the park is a good idea in my book and that activity would never stop me from placing a cache in a nice spot. Though I'd post a warning in the cache page. Not everyone wants to walk into a place like that get a wink or two and head off to find the cache by themselves.

October 27, 2003

There is a park near me that is notoriuos for this sort of activity. There are two caches in the park (don't want to name caches but in Hackensack, NJ). If you find the caches read the logs. Thankfully the police have cracked down and it is in process of being "cleaned up".

October 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Frantic Cachers:
There is a park near me that is notoriuos for this sort of activity. There are two caches in the park (don't want to name caches but in Hackensack, NJ). If you find the caches read the logs. Thankfully the police have cracked down and it is in process of being "cleaned up".

I found, rather easily, the two caches you referred to. The log entry from the cacher who had a weirdo following him around the park creeped me out severely.

I lead a very sheltered existence: I've never yet found crack vials while caching and when I found tires in a park while caching I was so shocked I immediately organized a C-I-T-O event to clean it up. Finding out about this whole world of, um, "pickle parks" is jarring my comfortable insular little mindset.

- Jay

5k · October 27, 2003

Is there a pickle park icon we can use?

Any of you creative types wanna come up with some ideas?

Jamie

October 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:
Is there a pickle park icon we can use?

Something like this?

We can't use that exactly because it's actually from the website of the Mt. Olive Pickle Company, which probably doesn't want to encourage people to think of gay sex in public parks when thinking of their products, but some graphic artist could come up with some variant on it.

October 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Johnnie Stalkers:
We have a park where I live where the same sort of thing goes on...My friends and I have mtb'd there for years [sNIP]

I hope "mtb'd" means mountainbiked...

1.6k · October 27, 2003

The first geocache in Nebraska is in a park that used to be infested with people who did this. Until a bunch of cachers, horseback riders, and bird watchers started actively stalking the area pursuing their various hobbies and made it too public for them. It is nice to see the cache safe as it is of historic interest.

_____________

7 3 10 13 23 36 59 95 ...

October 27, 2003

I'm a truck driver although I'm home everynight I still pull over sometimes to take a brake. I can't tell you the number of times I've had guys stare at me or come up to my truck and knock on the door. I just ignore them and they get the picture. Next time you pull into a pickle park and see these people take a look at their ring fingers. Most are married men out cheating on their wives. That's sad and not healthy for the cheating man or his wife at home.

4.7k · October 27, 2003

i'm the one what told hi we should reclaim the area. do you guys think it'd be ok if we put a warning on the cache page?

i am not suggesting that people ought ot bring their kids, but i think many of our local cachers would be willing to disturb the regular clientele in a sort of CITO.

i really resent it when public areas are made unusable except for sexual acticity. i want people to be able to use the place AS A REST STOP wothout having to feel icky!

i am of the opinion that if we use the place regularly, it will be to public and it will clean up. chalk one up for the decency league.

thoughts?

quod est, est.

1.3k · October 27, 2003

I wonder what would happen if someone put an official looking sign up threatening prosecution of illegal activities in the rest area including, but not limited to, cruising. A couple of laminated pges posted up in prominent locations, trailheads etc might do the trick.

[This message was edited by Bloencustoms on March 32, 1999 at 25:60 PM]

October 27, 2003

Oh dear lord, did none of you people see "Something about Mary"?

Bender

Searching, for the lost Xanadu

1.4k · October 27, 2003

quote:
Renegade Knight wrote:
Reclaiming the park is a good idea in my book and that activity would never stop me from placing a cache in a nice spot.

Although I think it's admirable to want to reclaim a park, there are dangers associated with these areas and I don't think it's a good thing to be encouraging cachers to go there, especially considering that this is a family activity.

I contacted three police departments after the incident that I witnessed and all three departments were all fully aware of the problem and had no intentions of stopping it. I explained what I was doing there and they suggested that it was not the safest area to be in.

My theory is that these areas are locations that local people rarely visit and therefore the problem goes virtually unnoticed. If the police were to stop the activity, the perpetrators would likely move their antics into urban parks. The later of the two being much less appealing.

Unfortunately, it seems that the police are unconcerned regarding what goes on in the wooded areas and washrooms near rest stops -- I know I won't be taking my kids anywhere near them. I also really don't feel that I need the aggravation of being accosted by some sick son of a gun or by the police because they mistake me for a sick son of a gun.

For those reasons I won't look for or place caches in rest areas.

Leading fellow cachers and their children to known problematic areas that the police seem to go out of their way to avoid, just doesn't strike me as offering a responsible contribution to the game.

*****

1.3k · October 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bender:
Oh dear lord, did none of you people see "Something about Mary"?

As long as you don't pick up a hitchiker first, you should be fine.

---Stats banner used to be here.---

October 28, 2003

There have been several posts and logs of this occurring at various rest stops and parks, I wouldn't place a cache there as the limited geocacher traffic wouldn't be enough discouragement imo. You'd certainly want BIG warnings on the cache page, and those who don't read it but just download coords will be unhappy if they're puritanical.

OTOH, those rest stops here in CT were closed. That's right, outright shut down, fenced off and eliminated from existance. Since nobody else used them, seems like a useful solution (that was back in the 70's or 80's). There's still a gay bar at the end of the connector...

Similarly, there was a local park in Norwalk overrun w/drug dealers, the town came through and cut down ALL the underbrush through the woods/trails so police could see through the trees. Eliminated that problem.

There are solutions if your community perceives this as a problem, but I personally have no problem w/folks enjoying the woods in that healthy fashion (heck, heterosexuals do it and everyone winks and smiles a knowing smile)! Since some folks perceive it negatively, I personally wouldn't force them to confront that issue by placing a cache there.

Enjoy,

Randy

PS: I've never read a post that a cache at one of these locations has affected the social behaviour there.

PPS: Might be a cache where condoms would be a good idea! Haha.. Oy..

October 28, 2003

Hey, Jeremy? There seems to be a bug in the forums. I can only find thread after outraged thread about gays having sex in public places, but none of the threads complaining about caches at places euphemistically named 'Lover's Lane' or something similiar seem to show up on my computer...

Ron/yumitori

---

Remember what the dormouse said...

October 28, 2003

We just experienced this for the first time. Later, we found out that one of the local news stations recently did a story concerning the "activities" that occur here in broad daylight. I was uncomfortable there. Here's my 2 cents:

First, I have to agree fully, with Johnnie Stalker. I am more worried about my son. Although he is two, I plan on him caching with me when he gets older. I really want to wait a little longer before he has to understand "sexual" issues

Second, although the idea of seeing two engaged in sexual activities is gross to me, the idea of anyone, hetero or homo performing sexual acts in public is not something I want to see at all. Don't these people have homes?

Third, I think it is the responsibility of the cache owner to warn us, IF THEY KNOW about it, ahead of time. Besides maybe bringing your kids and spouse along, I have brought others along with me; in-laws, parents, friends, etc...How would that look?

Last, what about the situation when local news channels do news stories about this spot. The day I happen to be there caching and they video my car and tag and put it on the news. I am a teacher, I cannot afford the ridicule I would get from it. Sorry, I am not being politically correct here, but thats a fact of life.

" If you believe in yourself and have dedication and pride...and never quit, you'll be a winner. The price of victory is high but so are the rewards." Paul "Bear" Bryant

God Bless you and your family.

God bless

October 28, 2003

In response to yumitori's reply, I have NEVER seen any male-female couples performing sexual acts in public in BROAD DAYLIGHT. I cannot say the same for homosexual couples. Unfortunately I have and I have had fellow cachers who have as well. So the reason there aren't any "Lover's Lane" threads, is basically, there aren't many. Again, I reiterate, I wouldn't want my young son to see a man and women having sex in braod daylight either.

" If you believe in yourself and have dedication and pride...and never quit, you'll be a winner. The price of victory is high but so are the rewards." Paul "Bear" Bryant

God Bless you and your family.

God bless

October 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by yumitori:
Hey, Jeremy? There seems to be a bug in the forums. I can only find thread after outraged thread about gays having sex in public places, but none of the threads complaining about caches at places euphemistically named 'Lover's Lane' or something similiar seem to show up on my computer...

When I go caching at a "lover's lane" location, I don't expect to find women coming up to me and following me around the park and basically acting like my only reason for being there is to have anonymous sex with her. That's not true of the gay cruising locations that people have been posting about here.

But in general, I don't think that people should be having sex in public at rest areas and public parks, period. Your typical teenager looking for a quiet, secluded spot to make out with his or her girlfriend doesn't typically pick a downtown park or an interstate rest area in any case. It's the weirdos who specifically *do* seek out such areas for their activities that are the problem, regardless of their gender and sexual orientation.

-- Jay

October 28, 2003

"I'm NOT a pickle, I'm a cucumber"

-Larry the Cucumber

October 28, 2003

This is also a popular activity in the Forest Preserves in Chicagoland.

Generally, (not that I approve of the parks being used in this manner), it is not a problem for me because my other half, Jennifer, is always along for the hunt, giving them the 'Unavailable' sign, so to speak.

A few months back though, someone had logged a 'No Find' on one of our caches, and since Jenn was at work, I headed off alone to check on the cache.

As I pulled in, I noticed an empty car in the lot and the owner hanging out near the trail head, just kinda pacing back and forth. I jumped out of my car and headed towards the cache, and as I passed him I gave a friendly "Good Morning", which apparently was not the correct thing to do.

About .2 down the trail, I headed off the beaten path towards the cache, and had a feeling I was being followed. Sure enough, I turned around, and this guy was hanging back a ways, but following along with me. I continued down an embankment and across a small stream towards the cache, and looked over my shoulder again, and I could see him standing near the embankment, kinda hiding himself, and keeping an eye one me.

I continued on, and apparently, he finally got the hint that I was not interested, or he decided that trying to make it down the hill and across a stream was too much work, and the next time I checked, he had given up on me. I sat at the cache a few minutes just to be sure before I pulled it from its home to check on it.

Thankfully, when I returned to the lot, he had left.

Surprisingly enough, it seems that Sunday mornings around 6 or 7 AM is a particularly busy time for this activity around here. That is when we usually hunt, and it never fails to amaze us as to the number of individuals out looking for some companionship in the local preserves.

Laugh now, but I've got plenty to do when I'm the last person on the planet

October 28, 2003

Just don't bend over to pick up the cache.

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

October 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Otter and Lemur:

When I go caching at a "lover's lane" location, I don't expect to find women coming up to me and following me around the park and basically acting like my only reason for being there is to have anonymous sex with her. That's not true of the gay cruising locations that people have been posting about here.

Of course not. That's what singles' bars are for...

quote:

But in general, I don't think that people should be having sex in public at rest areas and public parks, period. Your typical teenager looking for a quiet, secluded spot to make out with his or her girlfriend doesn't typically pick a downtown park or an interstate rest area in any case. It's the weirdos who specifically *do* seek out such areas for their activities that are the problem, regardless of their gender and sexual orientation.

-- Jay

Folks who think this sort of thing is limited to only certain sexual orientations might want to check this thread. Or they could just visit more local hangouts. There's certainly been enough blankets and clothing (both male and female) left behind in various parks I've visited over the years to demonstrate that enjoyment of outdoor sex is not limited to any one group. I think those teenagers are more willing to take advantage of public lands than you might think.

If folks want to decry the such behavior regardless of participants, I have no great complaint with that, leaving aside of my personal opinion of its appropriateness. But to call one subset sick and wrong while politely snickering at another is less than fair.

Ron/yumitori

---

Remember what the dormouse said...

3k · October 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Cache:
In response to yumitori's reply, I have NEVER seen any male-female couples performing sexual acts in public in BROAD DAYLIGHT. I cannot say the same for homosexual couples.

That is very interesting, because my experience has been precisely the opposite. On two occasions while out geocaching, I "walked in" on hetero couples totally naked and "engaged" right in the middle of trails during broad daylight.

I've picked up a few dozen caches in "reputed gay cruising areas," and have often observed men "looking to be noticed." I have been approached by a man at such an area exactly once. I looked him straight in the eye and told him to "GO AWAY NOW," and he was back in his car and gone faster than I can find a drive-by 1/1 cache. I have never witnessed any male/male couples along the trails or in the woods "engaged."

October 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by yumitori:
If folks want to decry the such behavior regardless of participants, I have no great complaint with that, leaving aside of my personal opinion of its appropriateness. But to call one subset sick and wrong while politely snickering at another is less than fair.

Yumitori, a variable in this equation that you should be aware of is the degree to which the cacher is or may be made an unwilling participant to some degree by the activities of the people engaged in sexual congress.

Teens boinking in the woods are regrettable, in my opinion, because it shocks and embarrasses all of us, and I don't particularly think I'd enjoy coming upon such a scene. But I wouldn't worry that they'd harass me, provided I didn't stand around gawking.

Men cruising for sex in a rest area that I happen to have stopped at in order to seek a cache may well come right up to me, even if I in NO WAY seek them out, and may in fact decline to take a hint several times over, until I am forced to tell them to go away. Though I did not have to do this, other folks posting to this thread have had to.

Furthermore, cachers hunting a cache in a gay cruising area, especially if they're there after dark, may wind up being arrested along with the cruisers. Our local state police apparently hit the rest area that I originally posted about now and then, after dark, with portable searchlights. I definitely think it'd be awkward, to say the least, if one was up in the woods caching and the police came along with their lights sweeping up everyone they came across.

Thus, for me, the "unwilling participant in what they're up to" is the part that I like the least. If I find two people of any gender having sex in a state park, I can simply walk away. But if I'm in a non-secluded, basically public, place and I'm followed, approached, solicited, and so on, simply because I'm there, or if, what's worse, I get arrested because I'm there in the first place, that's definitely not a Good Thing.

Would you agree?

-- Jay

1.3k · October 28, 2003

While out and about for non-geocaching purposes, I've walked up on a gay couple (men) and a hetero couple (I keep lookingfor two ladies to complete the set).

Anyway, the hetero couple was by far the most disturbing for me.

Why?

Because they were two of the ugliest people I have ever seen. It was like a giant sloth and a manatee going at it. Not pleasant.

---Stats banner used to be here.---

5.3k · October 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team WO9LF:
This is also a popular activity in the Forest Preserves in Chicagoland.

I guess the "secret sign" around here is to park your car backed into the parking spot if you are "looking for companionship".

______________________

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer Simpson

ChiTown Cachers * Keenpeople.com Stats

4.7k · October 28, 2003

what i resent is areas being taken over for the purpose of sexual activity. i'm perfectly willing to wink and look the other way for that occasional couple who happened to pick the wrong spot or time in relation to my appearance.

i'm against parks and rest areas becoming places where teh average jonses with their kids can't pull up without feeling uncomfortable. that makes them unwilling participants and it's just creepy.

i have been to the rest area to which lemur refers. the guys in the woods creeped me out, and i them. they got in their cars and went away.

of course, i was benchmark hunting and loaded eith gear, including some cameras. but i really felt bad for the three or four carlads of folks who just wanted to get out and stretch. they noticed the creepiness, and i felt bad for them.

quod est, est.

October 28, 2003

I may be excessively open-minded, and would have no trouble explaining love to a child as compared to violent acts, but ironically stumbled across this news article after posting earlier today.

Rest stops that generally don't see much traffic (other than the aforementioned) don't bother me too much, but areas such as mentioned in that article are excessive.

As noted in that article, news media coverage did little to affect it. They simply returned.

The best solution I can come up with would be to provide an alternative venue, which could be quite a profitable enterprise, were such businesses not legislated out of existance so frequently.

C'est la vie,

Randy

October 28, 2003

Make and post an official-looking sign that reads something like

SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS ARE INSTALLED

THROUGHOUT THIS REST/RECREATION AREA.

VISITORS VIOLATING ANY LAW WILL BE

PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF

THE LAW.

October 29, 2003

Maybe we should send the Jehovahs' witnesses in to prosthelyze at these rest stops.

It would keep both groups busy and irritated.

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

1.1k · October 29, 2003

Why does someone always try to turn these threads into a gay rights discussion? Anyone who goes to a park looking for sex with a stranger (male or female) has pretty low odds of being someone I want to see naked. I think a one night stand in a hotel has about 1000 X more class and meaning than this activity, gay or straight / male or female. The habit of 'hooking up' with random strangers in a public place is sexual deviance and socially irresponsible. I don't have to like it or approve of it, and I surely SHOULD NOT have to worry about my son witnessing it in a PUBLIC PARK. The issue is about GAY MEN because they are the ones CREATING an issue. You want to campaign for gay rights? You want to help the HETRO community understand and accept the homosexual lifestlye? Do something to get the sexual deviants of the gay community out of the public parks. May not be fair, but the GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT has an uphill public relations battle.

Just my .02, plus change.

Understand what? My purpose? You know that. To find the Tower is my purpose. I'm sworn.

-Roland, The Gunslinger

October 29, 2003

I wasn't aware it had turned into a "Gay Rights" discussion.

It seemed to me that (unusally) we agreed that such behavior, gay or otherwise, did not belong in a public place.

The reason they go there is because they figure no one will care, or bother them.

If enough people make it inconvenient, they'll find someplace else, maybe even a more suitable place.

Perhaps if a few people started to carry digital cameras and post pictures on the internet they would look for more privacy.

21.9k · October 29, 2003

The original question in this thread was the following:

quote:
Originally posted by Otter and Lemur:
Has anyone else found that an area they'd spotted as a potential cache location had to be disqualified for anything remotely like this, or, worse, found after placing a cache, that the location in question was getting used for similar purposes? Do you have any other advice relating to this?

This is a legitimate question related to the hiding and seeking of geocaches. It can be discussed without reference to the sexual orientation of the people observed in the park or rest area, and without offering opinions about the behavior of ugly people, gay people, young people or purple people. Many of you have offered helpful observations in this spirit. Please keep the discussion constructive and related to hiding and finding geocaches under the circumstances described. Thanks!

|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|

Keystone Approver, Geocaching.com Admin

"Eschewing Entropy and Ensuring Enthalpy in the Groundspeak Forums"

October 29, 2003

I like the idea of a sign, but you'd have to cut down the obscuring vegetation too. Since more municipalities are installing cameras, this bears weight (until we become immune to them).

I think that would make a great locationless cache too, but you'd have to encourage multiple finds.

Just kidding,

Randy

PS: The laws concerning such activities vary greatly state to state. Recently here someone was arrested for video-taping a couple who believed they had privacy--which is obviously illegal (peeping/snooping). Thankfully, finally a rational response.

October 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Johnnie Stalkers:
Why does someone always try to turn these threads into a gay rights discussion?

Because rather than discuss all of the potential problems with cache locations, there always a significant segment of the forum members who go directly to complaining about gay cruising sites, and ignore the concerns at hangouts for drug users, places frequented by teenagers looking for love, homeless campsites and similiar locales.

Do a search of forum topics and see what pops up most commonly. You don't want to discuss the appropriateness of a specific subset, help steer the conversation onto a more general discussion of all the issues that might arise.

Ron/yumitori

---

Remember what the dormouse said...

October 29, 2003

I was reading this thread the other day and thought, wow, I've never noticed anything like this. So what happends today?? After an appointment at Yale in New Haven I decided to go and do the caches in Long Wharf. I pull off to the side of the road to enter the coords for several caches and I notice an older man walking about and looking around. No big deal. After I finish entering the coords I started to read the cache pages. One cache is down the nature trail, oh I happend to pull over in front of it. I back up slightly to look down the path to see if it's stroller friendly (I had my 9 month old son with me) and I see the same guy with another guy, looking my way, kind of suspiciously and then walk out of sight. So I pulled around to a regular parking spot and continued to read the cache pages while keeping an eye on the nature trail. Out comes the second guy and soon to follow was the older guy. Then another car pulls up and he gets out and goes to the same area. The older guy follows him and a short while later they both emerge. This happend at least 4 more times in a 35-40 minute time frame. The older guy had been looking at me several times while waiting for another "customer", I guess wondering if I was going to partake in whatever activity was going on. Other cars had parked (all male drivers, alone)just waiting with the additional 4 men getting out and entering the nature trail with the older guy in tow. All the men were well dressed. Does anybody (Randy, only because you're in the general area)know if this is a known area for gay activity (ofcourse...it could be drugs but, I have a feeling it just was not drugs.) I was quite upset to think this stuff (gay activities or drugs) was preventing me from finding a cache. Why was it preventing me you ask? I do not need to see gay people together while trying to enjoy a walk and a hunt for a cache on a nature trail or secondly, I do not need to put myself OR my son in harms way while coming across a drug deal. I'll return next week and I hope to be able to get out and actually enjoy the area and find the cache and not come across some PDGA or illegal actions.

Rich

This is no time for fun and games...FIND THE CACHE!!

5.3k · October 29, 2003

quote:
<SNIP>some PDGA or illegal actions<SNIP>

Professional Disc Golf Association?

______________________

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer Simpson

ChiTown Cachers * Keenpeople.com Stats

October 29, 2003

Some caches are a bit hazardous by their very nature.

As long as the hazards are plainly posted in the description, I have no problem with it.

BTW, Rich, did you mean to have your signature code look like this:

 This is no time for fun and games...FIND THE CACHE!!

Which would do this:

This is no time for fun and games... FIND THE CACHE!

October 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Otter and Lemur:

Would you agree?

-- Jay

That being arrested is a not a Good Thing? Yep! It sure isn't.

That being arrested for simply being in a public place, during normal hours of access, while not breaking laws is not a Good Thing? Absolutely, but for rather different reasons.

That being 'solicited' by someone you are not interested is a bad thing? Nope. Now we part company. It happens. I've always found simply saying something like, 'I'm not interested. Go away,' works fine. Women deal with such situations regularly and most seem to have strategies for dealing with guys hitting on them, excuse me, 'soliciting' them when they aren't interested in the advances. Perhaps seeking advice from your female friends who have successfully dealt with such situations in the past would be a good idea.

Ron/yumitori

---

Remember what the dormouse said...

October 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Stunod:
I guess the "secret sign" around here is to park your car backed into the parking spot if you are "looking for companionship".

Hi Stunod,

Yeah, we did notice that too. I now make sure that I pull into a spot forward so as to not send a wrong sign.

I think it took us about 8 months before we realized what was actually going on in the area... I guess we were just under the impression that it was people stoping to drink their coffee and read the paper while enjoying the outdoors.

Laugh now, but I've got plenty to do when I'm the last person on the planet

October 29, 2003

quote:
From Stunod: <SNIP>some PDGA or illegal actions<SNIP>

Public Display of Gay Affection

This is no time for fun and games...FIND THE CACHE!!

1.3k · October 29, 2003

Ok, there are a couple of areas in City Park in New Orleans that have the same sort of activity. One of the city's oldest caches is placed on the arboretum trail, a nice series of winding paths that take you past signs describing different trees and shrubs. The first time I went looking for the cache, I noticed a guy following me on the trail, and when I went off trail to look for the cache, he just stood there watching me. At the time (in my innocence) I thought he might be the person who placed the cache, watching to see other cachers find it. Boy was I wrong.

A froiend of mine who caches with me occasionally came to another cache in the same park. We were looking around, and he decided to go back to the car for his GPSr as we thought it might help narrow the search. When he got back to the cache site, he told me that a man slowly drove past, and made a gesture at him. He told me he felt disgusted, and the whole experience took the fun out of the cache hunt. We now had to look over our shoulder the whole time. It was after this occurance that the man's strange behavior on the trail became clear to me.

I can personally tell you that placing a cache in those areas does nothing to stop that sort of behavior. There are several caches in the park, including those two near the cruising spots, and the activity continues unchecked.

To be fair, I would not want anyone soliciting me for affection of any kind, male or female, while on a trail in the woods.

I also find it ridiculous to suggest that straight men need to learn how to deal with unwanted advances from gay men. Sure, women have been dealing with such advances for centuries. That's an accepted part of mainstream culture, and we can assume that at some point in their life, a woman might welcome a man's advances. We can also assume that at no point in a staight man's life will he ever welcome the advances of another man.

I think you will find that the overwhelming majority of people in this country (while being nice tolerant politically correct people) would not participate in cruising, or want to stumble upon it while out enjoying a park. Gay society is a smaller segment of society as a whole. As such, the gay community will have to fight to gain acceptance from the mainstream. Criusing in public park can only hurt their image and make people less accepting.

In conclusion, I think the best way to help clean up the cruising in parks might be to contact the local gay rights organization, and inform them of the situation. If they are reasonable and responsible, they will see that it is in their best interest to help rid pars of this kind of activity, in order to gain acceptance in mainstream society.

[This message was edited by Bloencustoms on March 32, 1999 at 25:60 PM]

October 29, 2003

As a woman, I've never been out caching or hiking and had men approach me to participate in sexual activities in public places. I doubt many men have been approached by a woman for the same reason while out caching or hiking. Now why is it that we are supposed to accept it as the "norm" that a man can be approached by a gay man for sexual activity in public and that he should just brush it off with a simple "No thank you." It is sexual perversion that I have the problem with - and it just so happens to be the GAY men in those parks/rest stops that are doing that perversion. Approaching a stranger for sex in a public place?!?! I shudder to think of the day when that is something we all just accept as the norm.

Weird question relating to "a bad place to put a cache"

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