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HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED "APPROVER DISPARITY"?


PULASKI
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quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

I don't think the disrespect shown to Jeremy directly or indirectly, (and from many directions) is going to assist in helping to move geocaching forward.


 

I would add: I don't think the disrespect shown by Jeremy is helping either.

 

-- Its from aliens. I seen um. --

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quote:
Originally posted by Pulaski:

* SEARCHLITE CACHE - find a searchlight that is shining into the night sky and photo. Many of these are WWII surplus and my cache included research on them that took several hours to complete.

* GEO WASHINGTON SLEPT HERE - Virtual c. taking you to a plaque commemorating a location where General W slept. Includes nearby Civil War cannons and a statue of a CW General and his dog

*READING PA WEBCAM- admittedly fairly far away but no farther than many other cams and it included a second photo for verification


 

Let me tackle each of these individually for their merit:

  • SEARCHLITE CACHE: As Jeremy stated, locationless caches are in moratorium right now. Personally, I like them as much as virtuals, and believe they have the same geocaching merit as finding a box in the woods. They should, however, be interesting. I don't know if a searchlight qualifies...

GEO WASHINGTON SLEPT HERE: I kinda like this one.

READING PA WEBCAM: I've been wondering why webcam caches were ever invented. Half the time they don't work, and for all the whining about locationless this and virtual that, I'd rather see the storage space used for them than on webcam caches.

 

---------------

burnout.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

Planet, it is difficult to "have" a problem, when you "are" the problem...

 

--majicman


 

He's just trying to be funny and get my goat, or should I say sheep?

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

They would be those who stifle the valid creativity of others in an activity that has not yet had opportunity to fully explore the possibilities.

 

They would be those who thrust their narrow views and opinions of what this activity should be upon everyone else -- even upon those that have expressed their enjoyment of all types of caches.

 

They would be those who pretend to know what is best for me and also for you.

-----


 

But of course the issue is what qualifies as 'valid' and 'narrow'.

 

I'm a bit unclear why you, for example, should be able to express your fellings as to what is valid and what is too narrow a view, but those with differing opinions deserve to be called names.

 

Ron/yumitori

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Sorry for the late response on this one. The forums kept me from being logged in for a full day now.

 

First, you shouldn't fault me by the interpretation of some that I was calling the post originator a troll. I didn't call anyone names. If I wrote "Pulaski, you are a troll" that would be considered name calling. My intent was using it as a verb. As in it seems that there is someone who likes to troll.

 

Here's my reason for the message: My post was entirely disregarded and comments like this were dispensed ad-nauseum.

 

quote:
Sending this partly because I am curious and partly because I like stirring up trouble!

 

quote:
Thanks to those who posted so far. I needed a few good laughs.

 

In this way I apologize if Pulaski thought I was calling him warty and indicating he sleeps under a bridge. However, I can hardly apologize for indicating that his actions would be construed as trolling. Most folks noticed this early on.

 

For the uninformed, trolling is an attempt to lure other internet users into emotional discussions by using bait. By his own admission he wanted to stir up trouble, which isn't exactly a good start for debate, is it?

 

As I said before, if you have an issue with a cache not being approved, post your cache listing to the forums and have a debate. If it isn't worth the effort, it wasn't worth listing on the site.

 

If you want to just spin your gears and complain in general statements, that's your business. But it won't get much response from me or others in the forums.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™

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I archived the searchlight one. The searchlights are on trailers and go to events. These searchlights are cool, but I archived it because if you mark the coordinates for the searchlight today it will be at another location doing another job later. That is key to the locationless caches and is in the guidelines. frog.gif

 

To put the web cam one in perspective, here is the picture that is the example (by the way, I am on the hill in the woods on the right too!).

 

58240_200.jpg

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Per the Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia entry for Internet troll

 

Originally this term applied to people who were intentionally posting flamebait, by analogy with the fishing technique of trolling: metaphorically, these people were dragging a conversational lure through the group, hoping for a response. The concept of "this person is trolling our newsgroup" became shortened to "this person is a troll", and picked up the association of the monster trolls of folklore.

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quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:

To put the web cam one in perspective, here is the picture that is the example (by the way, I am on the hill in the woods on the right too!).

 


Wow, that sure explains that one. That could be anyone in that pic. Even if I knew I was there, I would have a hard time pointing myself out. Big difference from a shot from some of the other webcam caches.

 

854580_200.jpg

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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i've had some denied. i consider it a learning experience.

 

and recently i had what i considered to be a cool virt of historical significance (local history that often goes neglected)rejected. i took out my frustrations on everybody who looks for it by making it a multi with a tricky micro finish.

 

and i had one denied that the approver agreed would have been good except the location isn't guaranteed to stay for more than seven more months. even though i think people would be interested to go see a LIFE SIZE STATUE OF WILLARD SCOTT INSIDE A REAL GRAIN SILO ON A WORKING FARM, i do understand the concern. don't agree with it, but i understand the position fully.

 

ya gets what ya gets.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

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Folks,

 

Being a relative newcomer to this hobby, I have to say that some of you need to take off the Mr. Spock ears, put down the moon pies, and turn off the computers. The real world is beckoning you back! *cough* get a life *cough*

 

If I understand what the intent of Geocaching is, it is a hobby (NOT A SPORT) where people go out and look for things so they can get outside and have a good time. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

To have a few people arbitrarily deny caches that people turn in because some person has a bug up their *** about the person who submits them or just doesn't like them is childish.

 

JRS

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Wow, first sleeper sock puppets and now sleeper trolls! What WILL they think of next to keep the forums so entertaining?

 

The moment I see the word "nazi" in a discussion is when I stop reading the discussion and lose respect for the person who used it. Oops... guess I didn't stop this time!

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

I was formerly employed by the Department of Redundancy Department, but I don't work there anymore.

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quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

remember there are rules and guidelines

 

if folks have an issue with THEIR cache, take it up with the approver directly...

 

why is this sooooooooooooooooooo freakin complicated?


 

well first off, a person may want to know if anyone else has experienced this. second, they may have already done so, and want to see what the public thinks. as for rules vs guidelines, are you saying that guidlines are flexible, whereas rules are not? In that case then I'll throw this one out there: I had a LC denied by Jeremy because itwas mostly centered on NJ. "too limiting" this was barely 2 weeks after the Idaho hot springs LC was just approved, which can only find things in Idaho. I know of no such rule for LC regarding "limiting", so I guess that'd be a "guideline". If guidlines are meant to be flexible, and theres a definite difference in views, it's quite appropriate for this to be a subject of discussion.

 

as for someone else's comments regarding: we owe them nothing. ummm, excuse me but if two individuals (or individuals caches) are being treated completely differently I'd say that's wrong. I certainly would think we are owed consistency.

 

that said, there is a lot of whining (myself included) from individuals over a variety of things, some legiti criticisms, some not. Admin does have to put up with a lot, and I do not envy them. They put up with a lot of horse dukey, and it must not be easy to read some of the comments people make. That said, Jeremy's thick skin may be wearing thin, judging by his comments in this thread.

 

alt.gif

 

www.gpswnj.com

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Idaho Springs is a good example about guidelines that change.

 

If there is evidence that someone was personally targeted and denied caches, let me know. There are certainly situations that I know of where people post a cache and change it afterwards to get around guidelines (or other subversive deeds). That raises red flags and we look at that user differently in the future.

 

If you use vague generalizations and accusations, your points will be ignored.

 

Skin sufficiently hardened.

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™

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Congratulations!

 

You've proven you know how to use the web site. You should be proud!

 

I have been an on again off again cacher for the last few years. I look for caches and I am not in this to log anything. Who really cares? I'm glad you have taken the time to log your caches. Regardless, my points are still valid whether you like them or not.

 

JRS

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I must be a fortunate one! I have only placed 12 caches and have not had a problem with any of them. Matter of fact I put out a micro this past week and It was approved in a matter of 2-3 hours. I'm not saying that others don't have problems I'm saying I haven't. The only suggestion I could make to anyone Is change It up a bit and resubmit It. I wanted to do a virtual and heard that they were tightening up on virts so I hid a micro along with It and made It a multi. There are things you can do to make It more interesting. You may now begin blasting me I have to go caching.

 

Don't hunt what you can't kill!

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THANK YOU EVERYONE WHO WHINES AND SNEERS AND JIBZ AND JABZ FOR MAKING GEOCACHING OUT TO BE SOME KIND OF WORLD REGIME. ARE YOU AMERICAN OR TERRORIST?

 

Seriously folks, thanks for pushing this so freakin far that now, rather than having interpretable guidelines, we are now going to have CONCRETE FREAKIN RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Be careful what you ask for.

 

The lobbying against what you fear, has caused such grief, that you now get the credit for the 12" thick binder of addendums and interpretive bulletins that will be applied against future caches.

 

It is time for sane individuals to carry out a preemptive strike and ask you to all shut-up before you cause this site to explode and wipe out whatever we think it is we are doing, here or in the field.

 

canadazuuk

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quote:
Originally posted by BDC:

I must be a fortunate one! I have only placed 12 caches and have not had a problem with any of them. Matter of fact I put out a micro this past week and It was approved in a matter of 2-3 hours. I'm not saying that others don't have problems I'm saying I haven't. The only suggestion I could make to anyone Is change It up a bit and resubmit It. I wanted to do a virtual and heard that they were tightening up on virts so I hid a micro along with It and made It a multi. There are things you can do to make It more interesting. You may now begin blasting me I have to go caching.

 

Don't hunt what you can't kill!


 

You are in the overwhelming, yet often silent majority.

 

Let the sane prevail.

 

canadazuuk

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Greetings!

 

My first time back to this enlightening and lively conversation in a week or so.

 

First to "fizzymagic" - I wasnt whining about my caches being wacked and other peoples being approved. I have some that were approved that I dont feel are as good as several of mine that were canned. Not comparing mine to anyone else ( well, except for the new one of a stupid beer bottle outline painted on a commercial business - possibly the dumbest one ever - doable from the highway doing 70mph )

 

Second, STILL dont know what is meant by TROLL. I emailed the King of Geocaching and leader of computer nerds everywhere - KING JEREMY - without reply. I personally think he was the kid at school that got beaten up on a weekly basis and now has power and likes exercising it.

 

icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Seriously - I dont know what TROLL means in regard to caching.

 

After reading the most recent posts, I DO think that SOME approvers get off on having the power to deny a cache and then have the cache owner beg for approval. I have read SEVERAL people's posts saying that their caches got approved only after numerous outbound emails begging and pleading.

 

Further evidence of this might be proven in the way that some approvers add a few lines of ilrelevant text to the title or body. I have had things added that in no way contributed to the understanding of clarity of the cache. Almost like the approver just wanted to flex his muscle. Hmmmm....

 

Sunny day, headed out to do some hiking.

Sincerely,

PULASKI

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As I mentioned in a previous post. The Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia defines Internet troll as

Originally this term applied to people who were intentionally posting flamebait, by analogy with the fishing technique of trolling: metaphorically, these people were dragging a conversational lure through the group, hoping for a response. The concept of "this person is trolling our newsgroup" became shortened to "this person is a troll", and picked up the association of the monster trolls of folklore.

 

Your orginal message had

 

quote:
Originally posted by Pulaski:

This will probably stir up a hornets nest....

 

Sending this partly because I am curious and partly because I like stirring up trouble!


So the phrase "dragging a conversational lure through the group, hoping for a response" seems to apply. So you were "trolling our newsgroup" therefore the short hand of you were being a troll.

 

All Jeremy was saying you were trying to get response. The line "I like stirring up trouble" indicates that you expected to get responses.

 

I don't see anything mean spirited in your remarks or in Jeremy’s reply.

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As someone who has met Pulaski, I'm going to stick up for him on the "troll" debate. I believe he expected a spirited discussion; but, that he wanted to see the variety of opinions so he could consider them. I don't believe he posted simply to incite chaos, but also wasn't afraid to ask, even though he knew there would be controversy.

 

Also, I agree with him on the point that there are virtuals more interesting (at least to me) than other traditional caches.

 

I won't comment here on my feelings regarding the specific virtuals he mentioned; but, it does seem that some that may be 'borderline' get denied, while others, much more obvious slip through the cracks. I personally don't complain about it. If I don't want to hunt a cache, I won't. I appreciated the hard work all the admins and approvers do, even when I don't agree with them. I certainly don't envy them!

 

One thing I have done to try and avoid wasting research time, is to contact one of the approvers with my initial idea and the 'basics'. If it flies with them, I'll continue to develop the cache, working back and forth with them (if necessary) before I even attempt to post it. Otherwise, I just move on.

 

Greg

N 39 54.705'

W 77 33.137'

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quote:
Originally posted by gnbrotz:

As someone who has met Pulaski, I'm going to stick up for him on the "troll" debate. I believe he expected a spirited discussion; but, that he wanted to see the variety of opinions so he could consider them. I don't believe he posted simply to incite chaos, but also wasn't afraid to ask, even though he knew there would be controversy.


 

Fair enough, but the next time you talk with him, you might mention that it is quite rare that comments like the following encourages the other party to be see one's point of view.

 

quote:
Second, STILL dont know what is meant by TROLL. I emailed the King of Geocaching and leader of computer nerds everywhere - KING JEREMY - without reply. I personally think he was the kid at school that got beaten up on a weekly basis and now has power and likes exercising it.

 

 

After reading the most recent posts, I DO think that SOME approvers get off on having the power to deny a cache and then have the cache owner beg for approval. I have read SEVERAL people's posts saying that their caches got approved only after numerous outbound emails begging and pleading.


 

He is indeed 'inciting chaos'. I originally thought Jeremy's designation was premature, but after this, I feel he's correct. Pulaski isn't acting as though he wishes to resolve anything, but rather that he is trying to stir up even more hard feelings than there already are.

 

If that's not his intent, he needs to change his approach drastically.

 

Ron/yumitori

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