Caching with weapons

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by vash the stampede:

quote:
1) Is it true that the only (or even primary) use of a gun user is to *kill* people? In 98% of defensive gun uses not one shot is fired, so I'd say the answer is clearly enough "No."

a factoid, looks like a fact, smells like a fact, aint a fact...

It is indeed a fact, and a well-documented one. Over 98% of instances where a firearm is used to avert a crime, it was not fired. But I notice that you do not try and claim that my statement is untrue; instead you seem to be arguing about the interpretation of that fact:

quote:
...for us to use this to say that guns are not designed to kill we would have to say that a1 98 percent of guns used in defence did not have firing pins...

See, you're talking about an *interpretation* here. And your interpretation is quite clearly wrong. The persons who averted a crime using their firearm would certainly consider that the firearm "did its job" (this should I think be fairly obvious to you). A crime was averted. The gun-owner is pleased and relieved. Yet nobody died.

For your interpretation to make sense, 98% of people who avert a crime using their gun would have to be thinking, "Aw, nuts! I wanted to blow somebody away! After all, THAT'S what my gun is FOR!"

A little bit of thought will make all of this clear to you. I hope you do give it some thought.

quote:
...you are not taking into account military or police use of guns...

Actually, their situation is not that different. All policemen carry guns--but most policemen never fire their gun. The fact that it CAN be fired is sufficient to achieve the objective, which is compliance. Sometimes they need not draw it. Sometimes they unclip they holster--which sends a sufficient signal. Sometimes they even draw, but need not fire.

For your view to make sense, it would have to be the case that a policeman shoots somebody every time he draws his weapon. Or, if he doesn't, that he thinks to himself, "Dang! The stupid perp put his hands up! I wanted to SHOOT him, 'cus THAT'S what my gun is FOR!"

The simple fact is that having the *ability* to shoot somebody functions primarily as a deterrent to the *necessity* of doing so. This is even true of the military, by the way: the military spends most of its time standing ready, not fighting on a battlefield.

(In fact if you wanted a deeper philosophical discussion of defensive issues, I could direct you to Clausewitz, who clearly articulates the principle that causing death is not the primary purpose of any defensive action, including military. He says, "the disarming of the enemy can be regarded as the primary objective in warfare.")

So I repeat my urging that you think about this issue a little more carefully: to suggest that the primary purpose of guns is actually killing people is simply untrue, and at best wildly misleading.

--Len.

20.7k · July 26, 2002

I have been avoiding this thread for a while, thinking that it would quickly die and be forgotten. It seemed to me that this is one of those topics that people would be passionate about. You would either be for or against and anyone who disagreed with you was just wrong. In that sense, I was right. I am surprised however to see the life the thread has had.

I try not to even give my opinion on these emotional threads, but I just can't help myself.

I think I agree with everything Wmas1960 said. (Forgive me, I zoned in the middle.)

If a person is appropriately trained, licensed, and has a helthy mindset, what do I care if they are carrying a conceled weapon. I don't mind admitting that I have cached armed on occasion. It largely depends on my comfort level with the surroundings.

I will take issue with only one comment on the thread. That was a comment that suggested that if a weapon must be fired, it should be aimed carefully to minimize its lethality. This is not how I was trained. I was trained that in a close combat situation, one should fire at center mass until there is no danger. This may mean one shot, it may mean fire all bullets and fall back to reload.

The thought that there is enough time to carefully aim at someones arm or leg while you are in danger is laughable. This type of shot is only for the movies. Why don't you just shoot the gun out of the enemy's hand while you are at it?

[This message was edited by sbell111 on July 26, 2002 at 12:53 PM.]

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by vash the stampede:
and i have clarified a MILLION times when i say kill i am not referring to only people, that is your word dont try to put it in my mouth. man machine or beast, it makes no difference.

The force of the statement "guns are designed to kill" rests entirely in the implication that it's PEOPLE being killed. About half the time, folks include the word "people" in the statement.

To see this, try going around saying, "guns are designed to kill rats". Izzat so? Ho, hum. See?

But please don't feel misrepresented; I don't care WHAT you're talking about killing. The primary purpose of guns is not killing ANYTHING, whether animal, vegetable or bateria.

The primary purpose when using a firearm defensively is to threaten. A threat is meaningless if it can't be carried out, but one's primary goal is not to carry out the threat--one does NOT threaten in hopes he gets a chance to carry out the threat.

quote:
...go and peddle you nonsensicle numbers elswhere...

Is a "nonsensicle" a new kind of popsicle? :-P

Anyway, I offered one statistical fact, which is true. You offered a long paragraph of rampant statistical speculation. Who's peddling numbers?

quote:
...it begs one last question, if the purpose is not to kill why does everyone think a nonlethal replica is such a bad idea??

Who said it's a bad idea? I don't remember expressing an opinion one way or the other.

But your question is easily answered: defensive use of a firearm almost never involves kiling, but it always involves a credible threat. Nonlethal replicas of guns do not project a credible threat unless the attacker believes it is real.

So some people DO use replicas for self defense, and they often DO work. However, they work only because enough people use real weapons. If criminals know that everyone carries a fake and nobody carries a real weapon, then the replica would be completely useless for defense.

(By the way, if you think carefully about this, you will realize that it further proves that the primary purpose of a defensive weapon is not killing. A replica CAN be used successfully for the same defensive purpose. The real purpose is to project a threat which the attacker believes.)

--Len.

20.7k · July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Budney:
The primary purpose when using a firearm defensively is to threaten. A threat is meaningless if it can't be carried out, but one's primary goal is not to carry out the threat--one does NOT threaten in hopes he gets a chance to carry out the threat.

and

(By the way, if you think carefully about this, you will realize that it further proves that the primary purpose of a defensive weapon is not killing. A replica CAN be used successfully for the same defensive purpose. The real purpose is to project a threat which the attacker believes.)

I'm sorry, one more comment and I will try to distance myself from this thread.

Your comments go against my training. I was trained that you do not brandish your weapon unless you intend to use it. Using your weapon to threaten, without being COMPLETELY prepared to use it to inflict lethal force will get you killed.

The risk of your hesitation being projected to the subject and losing any advantage is too great. Also, I believe the brandishing of a fake weapon (including a replica, an empty weapon or a 'disabled' weapon) is foolhardy. This will only get you killed if your bluff does not work or if you scare the attacker into firing their own weapon in 'self-defense'.

July 26, 2002

Everyone list their interesting or potentially life threatening encounters by humans or animals while geocaching. This could be interesting. Did you ever have to use force to protect yourselves.

TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT

20.7k · July 26, 2002

I wonder if every argument in this thread hasn't been presented five different times.

July 26, 2002

Don't worry it will die soon. Whenever I get involved in these things they die and I don't know why??

TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT

July 26, 2002

Don't worry it will die soon. Whenever I get involved in these things they die and I don't know why??

TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT

20.7k · July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rockdoctors:
Don't worry it will die soon. Whenever I get involved in these things they die and I don't know why??

Once you've infused the issue with unassailable logic, all opposition wilts away.

20.7k · July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rockdoctors:
Don't worry it will die soon. Whenever I get involved in these things they die and I don't know why??

Once you've infused the issue with unassailable logic, all opposition wilts away.

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

Once you've infused the issue with unassailable logic, all opposition wilts away.

Whut kinda stuped talk is that? do you thinkthat we wil be impresed by your big brane ifyou use big werds that noone undirstnads? i think youre brane has witls awayed!

boblog3

20.7k · July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by boblog3:
Whut kinda stuped talk is that? do you thinkthat we wil be impresed by your big brane ifyou use big werds that noone undirstnads? i think youre brane has witls awayed!

Actually, my brain is about regular size.

July 26, 2002

Boblog3

Areyou going to try geocaching or are you just going to make rude comments on the forums?? In general I would say that these forums are for honest geocachers. Why don't you try the game and become part of things??

TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

quote:
Originally posted by Rockdoctors:
Don't worry it will die soon. Whenever I get involved in these things they die and I don't know why??

Once you've infused the issue with unassailable logic, all opposition wilts away.

But I've only just started!!!!

TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

quote:
Originally posted by Rockdoctors:
Don't worry it will die soon. Whenever I get involved in these things they die and I don't know why??

Once you've infused the issue with unassailable logic, all opposition wilts away.

But I've only just started!!!!

TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT

July 26, 2002

This is a geocaching website! To some people it's

a joke, and they just like pushing peoples buttons.

I told myself that I wouldn't post again to this topic, but I couldn't help it. Why don't the people that like guns go caching with them? And for the people that don't like guns while caching, don't bring them. It seems to me people like causing a big fuss and probably have never even found a cache. Creating a new member name to post is immature and pathetic. One obviously has the wrong idea about what this site is for! They must have nothing better to do! Find a chat room for pete sake!

THE POINT IS GO CACHING; WITH OR WITHOUT A GUN!!!

Not ever replying again to this topic!!!! LOL

Duane from

Upinyachit!

P.S. Ever own a dictionary, Booblog?? Ooops! LOLOL

Our feet go where the caches are!

July 26, 2002

This is a geocaching website! To some people it's

a joke, and they just like pushing peoples buttons.

I told myself that I wouldn't post again to this topic, but I couldn't help it. Why don't the people that like guns go caching with them? And for the people that don't like guns while caching, don't bring them. It seems to me people like causing a big fuss and probably have never even found a cache. Creating a new member name to post is immature and pathetic. One obviously has the wrong idea about what this site is for! They must have nothing better to do! Find a chat room for pete sake!

THE POINT IS GO CACHING; WITH OR WITHOUT A GUN!!!

Not ever replying again to this topic!!!! LOL

Duane from

Upinyachit!

P.S. Ever own a dictionary, Booblog?? Ooops! LOLOL

Our feet go where the caches are!

July 26, 2002

Start caching or get out of the forums. We don't need punks like you.

2.6k · July 26, 2002

I've seen that name mentioned in other strings. Strings wishing for a block feature.

The misspelling appears forced. Desperately random. You have to assume that the user name was created only to be used for discontent.

Just ignore all these posts. Further discussion of this user will only prevoke.

Preperation, the first law to survival.

July 26, 2002

Originally posted by upinyachit:
This is a geocaching website! To some people it's

a joke, and they just like pushing peoples buttons.

I told myself that I wouldn't post again to this topic, but I couldn't help it.

Good grief man, help it already. If you can't find a logical argument, then please, prevent yourself from posting.

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

July 26, 2002

Originally posted by upinyachit:
This is a geocaching website! To some people it's

a joke, and they just like pushing peoples buttons.

I told myself that I wouldn't post again to this topic, but I couldn't help it.

Good grief man, help it already. If you can't find a logical argument, then please, prevent yourself from posting.

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Duke_:
Originally posted by upinyachit:
If you can't find a logical argument, then please, prevent yourself from posting.

Yeah... it would be nice if we had more logical arguments on this thread - you know the one Duke previously posted where he claimed people like me were "spineless" - when he's the one who needs to take a gun with him when looking for a tupperware container!

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

July 26, 2002

Good grief Seneca, would you quit embarrassing yourself?

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Duke_:
Good grief Seneca, would you quit embarrassing yourself?

Read your previous post, man - if you won't listen to others, then at least listen to yourself.

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

July 26, 2002

Yeah... it would be nice if we had more logical arguments on this thread - you know the one Duke previously posted where he claimed people like me were "spineless"

Sorry, shouldn't have called you spineless.

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

[This message was edited by Duke_ on July 27, 2002 at 07:23 AM.]

July 26, 2002

ps, I can't believe I'm arguing with someone with a signature that I could not agree more with!

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Read your previous post, man - if you won't listen to others, then at least listen to yourself.

I do try to listen to myself. Often I'm the only one who'll listen to me!

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

[This message was edited by Duke_ on July 27, 2002 at 07:27 AM.]

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Read your previous post, man - if you won't listen to others, then at least listen to yourself.

I do try to listen to myself. Often I'm the only one who'll listen to me!

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

[This message was edited by Duke_ on July 27, 2002 at 07:27 AM.]

4.5k · July 26, 2002

Otay, furst Mitsukoo, now wee hav Boblog,, Sumeone shuld feces up. Com on owt ub da closet end tel us hoo u arre!!!

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Duke_:
God Bless the RCMP. I've never worked with a more dedicated and professional order. I sure hope they are not offended by your comments about being armed.

Since you don't seem to read terribly carefully, I will quote myself:

quote:
Originally posted by Seneca :
The answer is no. Contemplating killing someone, in advance, is not something I would find at all right or pleasurable, and it is certainly not something I want to go through life doing, in particular when I am participating in a recreational activity such as Geocaching. (I do have respect for those persons whose profession requires them to be always prepared to kill, but I would not expect or want them to carry on that attitude when off duty). I guess I can imagine in some pathetic societies, it would be prudent for my own safety to never leave home unless I was prepared to kill.

(bold added)

It was professionals like the R.C.M.P. I was referring to, whom I do respect and admire.

Also with respect to my signature, it is of course a paraphrase of : "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it" - those are words that I am prepared to live by and would be prepared to die by. This thread has nothing to do with such a noble cause.

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

July 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by upinyachit:
Look people.

If you want to carry a gun while geocaching, more power to you. Just remind me which one you're visiting so I can avoid a potential accident. Duh. What if I jumped out of the woods and said "Boo"! Are you gonna shoot me?????

Our family has never owned a weapon... EVER! It is asking for trouble. And you let your kids handle them? Wow. How many experienced gun owners that taught their children how to use them lost their lives? My best friend in Colorado had a friend who's son accidentally blew his head off! The kid was 15 and was just cleaning his gun! Guns+Kids=Trouble. Curiosity killed the cat, don't ya know.

As far as Samantha Runnion, (yes, she has a name) how would a gun have helped her? Read up on the news, bud, nothing would have helped that little girl except maybe her mother watching her play in the front yard. A five year old child is too young to be playing in a FRONT yard with NO SUPERVISION!!!

This is not what this country needs is a bunch of gun happy people! Isn't there enough violence these days? Now you people are trying to make geocaching a scarry thing to do. Quit it, will ya?

If it's your time to go, then it's your time to go.

quote:
Many gunowners must have sniffed so much burning gunpowder that most of their brain cells have mushified.

Bullseye, Seneca!

quote:
Hmmmmm... never seems to happen to us. Perhaps we are more alert and not easily surprised. Or perhaps we are confident that we can defeat any credible threat, so we do not spook as easily.

We are not naive to think that we might be another statistic. We are confident in knowing that guns ask for trouble. No one said we were going to defeat a potential perpetrator either. We go on the trails together and with the 6 of us, we make plenty of noise to scare someone off.

You can get hit by a bus tomorrow and chances are the gun will not help you then, either.

Firm in our beliefs,

Candie from

Upinyachit

--

Education and Training are, in my own humble opinion, the answers to any type of firearms--as well as other weapons--issues of safety.

I was trained in rifle marksmanship when I was 12--at a local sportsman's club, under the direct supervision of adults, training for my hunter's safety card, many of which who were either active or retired police officers, or military men and women. I saw no evidence of abuse or misuse of firearms on the parts of any of my fellow 12-year-olds.

Michigan's law sets the youngest age at 12 for hunter safety courses and small game. One may hunt deer at 14 with a firearm...ALL WITH ADULT SUPERVISION.

The thing that amuses me is when other people who have never shot a gun, let alone owned one, get up on their soapbox and start preaching the evils of weapons. Accidents happen every day, but there is one fact that, as Americans, have seemingly forgotten about. We need our weapons to protect us from a tyrannical government--if it should ever come to that. That's the primary purpose for the armed citizen, PERIOD.

Why is it that hollywood almost always portrays the private citizen abusing firearms whenever that type of scene is portrayed, yet lauds the police officer, detective, or soldier? The soldier in WW-II fims, for example, was a private citizen at one time before he was drafted. The police officer is--and this may surprise you--A CIVILIAN! Not a privileged class of some kind. I've got a year of law-enforcement training from college, and I am appalled at some of the attitudes that would-be peace officers have. It's downright scary.

Police officers are "Civilian Law Enforcement Officers" in other words. Unless they have an "MP" band on their arm, I don't remember the last time Military Police worked at the local Sheriff's office.

So what is all this about? Self-security, to put it simply. If a woman has a weapon she knows how to use--that is, a pistol or revolver--she can thwart a rapist cold. Do not pass go! Do not collect $200 dollars (from her purse). You get the idea? I am not a pacifist, nor do I advocate excessive violence. Do I advocate certain types of violence? Yes! Defensive violence, violence out of necessity of survival.

Also, concealed carry laws need to be removed and it just needs to be known that in this country, the Right To Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed. I don't get up on my soapbox much, but this is one subject I hold dearly to. Ask the Jews! They'll tell you. Never Again! isn't just a mantra or saying, it's a warning!

How soon some forget.

Bottom line? Perhaps many lines. But Education, Training, Involvement in the Political Process (If you don't vote, don't complain please), Respect for Good Laws, Disdain for Bad Ones (with the requisite involvement in recalling or removing via the legal system politicians who fail in their roles as local, county, state, and federal roles as Mayors, County Commissioners, Representatives, and Senators, et al.

One should always have at least one good defensive rifle or shotgun, period! Don't like guns? No matter, all men are expected to defend the nation when the going gets down to door-to-door! So get yer rifle or shotgun, yer hundred rounds, keep it in a locked safe until you need it.

Respect others, Respect your country, Respect yourself. Oh, and as one last matter of course...if you don't defend yourself *properly*, then who will?

Our feet go where the caches are! http://home.rochester.rr.com/thehughesfamily7/images/feet.gif

July 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by upinyachit:
Look people.

If you want to carry a gun while geocaching, more power to you. Just remind me which one you're visiting so I can avoid a potential accident. Duh. What if I jumped out of the woods and said "Boo"! Are you gonna shoot me?????

Our family has never owned a weapon... EVER! It is asking for trouble. And you let your kids handle them? Wow. How many experienced gun owners that taught their children how to use them lost their lives? My best friend in Colorado had a friend who's son accidentally blew his head off! The kid was 15 and was just cleaning his gun! Guns+Kids=Trouble. Curiosity killed the cat, don't ya know.

As far as Samantha Runnion, (yes, she has a name) how would a gun have helped her? Read up on the news, bud, nothing would have helped that little girl except maybe her mother watching her play in the front yard. A five year old child is too young to be playing in a FRONT yard with NO SUPERVISION!!!

This is not what this country needs is a bunch of gun happy people! Isn't there enough violence these days? Now you people are trying to make geocaching a scarry thing to do. Quit it, will ya?

If it's your time to go, then it's your time to go.

quote:
Many gunowners must have sniffed so much burning gunpowder that most of their brain cells have mushified.

Bullseye, Seneca!

quote:
Hmmmmm... never seems to happen to us. Perhaps we are more alert and not easily surprised. Or perhaps we are confident that we can defeat any credible threat, so we do not spook as easily.

We are not naive to think that we might be another statistic. We are confident in knowing that guns ask for trouble. No one said we were going to defeat a potential perpetrator either. We go on the trails together and with the 6 of us, we make plenty of noise to scare someone off.

You can get hit by a bus tomorrow and chances are the gun will not help you then, either.

Firm in our beliefs,

Candie from

Upinyachit

--

Education and Training are, in my own humble opinion, the answers to any type of firearms--as well as other weapons--issues of safety.

I was trained in rifle marksmanship when I was 12--at a local sportsman's club, under the direct supervision of adults, training for my hunter's safety card, many of which who were either active or retired police officers, or military men and women. I saw no evidence of abuse or misuse of firearms on the parts of any of my fellow 12-year-olds.

Michigan's law sets the youngest age at 12 for hunter safety courses and small game. One may hunt deer at 14 with a firearm...ALL WITH ADULT SUPERVISION.

The thing that amuses me is when other people who have never shot a gun, let alone owned one, get up on their soapbox and start preaching the evils of weapons. Accidents happen every day, but there is one fact that, as Americans, have seemingly forgotten about. We need our weapons to protect us from a tyrannical government--if it should ever come to that. That's the primary purpose for the armed citizen, PERIOD.

Why is it that hollywood almost always portrays the private citizen abusing firearms whenever that type of scene is portrayed, yet lauds the police officer, detective, or soldier? The soldier in WW-II fims, for example, was a private citizen at one time before he was drafted. The police officer is--and this may surprise you--A CIVILIAN! Not a privileged class of some kind. I've got a year of law-enforcement training from college, and I am appalled at some of the attitudes that would-be peace officers have. It's downright scary.

Police officers are "Civilian Law Enforcement Officers" in other words. Unless they have an "MP" band on their arm, I don't remember the last time Military Police worked at the local Sheriff's office.

So what is all this about? Self-security, to put it simply. If a woman has a weapon she knows how to use--that is, a pistol or revolver--she can thwart a rapist cold. Do not pass go! Do not collect $200 dollars (from her purse). You get the idea? I am not a pacifist, nor do I advocate excessive violence. Do I advocate certain types of violence? Yes! Defensive violence, violence out of necessity of survival.

Also, concealed carry laws need to be removed and it just needs to be known that in this country, the Right To Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed. I don't get up on my soapbox much, but this is one subject I hold dearly to. Ask the Jews! They'll tell you. Never Again! isn't just a mantra or saying, it's a warning!

How soon some forget.

Bottom line? Perhaps many lines. But Education, Training, Involvement in the Political Process (If you don't vote, don't complain please), Respect for Good Laws, Disdain for Bad Ones (with the requisite involvement in recalling or removing via the legal system politicians who fail in their roles as local, county, state, and federal roles as Mayors, County Commissioners, Representatives, and Senators, et al.

One should always have at least one good defensive rifle or shotgun, period! Don't like guns? No matter, all men are expected to defend the nation when the going gets down to door-to-door! So get yer rifle or shotgun, yer hundred rounds, keep it in a locked safe until you need it.

Respect others, Respect your country, Respect yourself. Oh, and as one last matter of course...if you don't defend yourself *properly*, then who will?

Our feet go where the caches are! http://home.rochester.rr.com/thehughesfamily7/images/feet.gif

July 27, 2002

I think everyone is so off the subject, it's pitiful. How can you sit there and down our beliefs?

quote:
The thing that amuses me is when other people who have never shot a gun, let alone owned one, get up on their soapbox and start preaching the evils of weapons.

I never said that guns were evil. I BELIEVE THEY DON'T BELONG GEOCACHING. DON'T YOU READ???? OF ALL THE &^%$#^( POSTS IN THIS THREAD, YOU PICK ME, OF ALL MEMBERS TO QUOTE.

quote:
Good grief man, help it already. If you can't find a logical argument, then please, prevent yourself from posting.

Uh, Duke...DITTO!

I haven't heard any logic coming from you other than your idiotic arguments.

quote:
Good grief Seneca, would you quit embarrassing yourself?

I think you embarrassed yourself enough for one thread, don't you, Duke?

We believe what we believe.

We don't care what you say, Fishy man, we are happy and content without a weapon in our home.

Can you change our minds? Hell no!

Are we against violence? Yes. Are we against defending ourselves? No. We have a right to choose how we defend ourselves.

End of discussion for us. Keep our dadgum quotes out of it; we want no part of this ridiculous, off the subject thread! It's getting to the point where pete met repeat!

Candie from

Upinyachit

Our feet go where the caches are!

July 27, 2002

I think everyone is so off the subject, it's pitiful. How can you sit there and down our beliefs?

quote:
The thing that amuses me is when other people who have never shot a gun, let alone owned one, get up on their soapbox and start preaching the evils of weapons.

I never said that guns were evil. I BELIEVE THEY DON'T BELONG GEOCACHING. DON'T YOU READ???? OF ALL THE &^%$#^( POSTS IN THIS THREAD, YOU PICK ME, OF ALL MEMBERS TO QUOTE.

quote:
Good grief man, help it already. If you can't find a logical argument, then please, prevent yourself from posting.

Uh, Duke...DITTO!

I haven't heard any logic coming from you other than your idiotic arguments.

quote:
Good grief Seneca, would you quit embarrassing yourself?

I think you embarrassed yourself enough for one thread, don't you, Duke?

We believe what we believe.

We don't care what you say, Fishy man, we are happy and content without a weapon in our home.

Can you change our minds? Hell no!

Are we against violence? Yes. Are we against defending ourselves? No. We have a right to choose how we defend ourselves.

End of discussion for us. Keep our dadgum quotes out of it; we want no part of this ridiculous, off the subject thread! It's getting to the point where pete met repeat!

Candie from

Upinyachit

Our feet go where the caches are!

July 27, 2002

I think my next thread will be, "Geocaching with a Bible."

We got most of the pinheads out of the woodwork with this topic, next time I will broach the subject of religion or maybe politics.

2.6k · July 27, 2002

Preperation, the first law to survival.

July 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by leatherman:
This whole thread read like Religion and Politics to me.

Yikes! Do me a favor, go to church and stay out of politics :-0

July 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by upinyachit:
Uh, Duke...DITTO!

I haven't heard any logic coming from you other than your idiotic arguments.

Um, that's a little confusing to me. Logic coming from me other than my idiotic arguments? That would imply that idiotic arguments are logical. Does not compute.

quote:
I think you embarrassed yourself enough for one thread, don't you, Duke?

I don't know, have I? Now I think you're just being mean Candie.

Thats almost as bad as me calling Senaca spineless, which was of course in poor taste.

Now if you don't care to contribute to the discussion, no one is forcing you to. But there is no need to get all excited and start insulting people who have a different opinion than yours. You may think its a "rediculous, off the subject thread", but if you'll notice, it's about the most popular thread in the General Forum. Sure is getting alot of posts and views.

The thread was started by solohiker, wondering how cachers carry defensive weapons effeciently and effectively, and looking for tips on the matter.

quote:
I like guns and knives. I don't carry them as defensive weapons usually. I never learned the art of the quick draw. I know that there are cachers who do carry defensive weapons and I was wondering how they carried them efficently and/or effectively.

In a backpacking situation, humping a 3 pound pistol is just extra weight and normally not very accessible. It just doesn't seem practical. Even a day hike/geocache seems problematic.

Any tips?

I think he's received the information he was looking for, and in the process, sparked some lively, entertaining, and thought provoking debate. No harm there. I for one have enjoyed the thread, even after enduring your personal attacks.

Again, you're the one choosing to read the thread. If you don't like it, if it upsets you, if you feel its ridiculous and off the subject, then don't read it. But of course you've already stated that this was the "End of discussion for us", so you'll probably never even see my comments anyway.

Take care.

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

July 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by upinyachit:
Uh, Duke...DITTO!

I haven't heard any logic coming from you other than your idiotic arguments.

Um, that's a little confusing to me. Logic coming from me other than my idiotic arguments? That would imply that idiotic arguments are logical. Does not compute.

quote:
I think you embarrassed yourself enough for one thread, don't you, Duke?

I don't know, have I? Now I think you're just being mean Candie.

Thats almost as bad as me calling Senaca spineless, which was of course in poor taste.

Now if you don't care to contribute to the discussion, no one is forcing you to. But there is no need to get all excited and start insulting people who have a different opinion than yours. You may think its a "rediculous, off the subject thread", but if you'll notice, it's about the most popular thread in the General Forum. Sure is getting alot of posts and views.

The thread was started by solohiker, wondering how cachers carry defensive weapons effeciently and effectively, and looking for tips on the matter.

quote:
I like guns and knives. I don't carry them as defensive weapons usually. I never learned the art of the quick draw. I know that there are cachers who do carry defensive weapons and I was wondering how they carried them efficently and/or effectively.

In a backpacking situation, humping a 3 pound pistol is just extra weight and normally not very accessible. It just doesn't seem practical. Even a day hike/geocache seems problematic.

Any tips?

I think he's received the information he was looking for, and in the process, sparked some lively, entertaining, and thought provoking debate. No harm there. I for one have enjoyed the thread, even after enduring your personal attacks.

Again, you're the one choosing to read the thread. If you don't like it, if it upsets you, if you feel its ridiculous and off the subject, then don't read it. But of course you've already stated that this was the "End of discussion for us", so you'll probably never even see my comments anyway.

Take care.

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 26:14

2.6k · July 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by solohiker:
Yikes! Do me a favor, go to church and stay out of politics :-0

How's that?

Preperation, the first law to survival.

1.1k · July 27, 2002

This has been talked to death. The original question was to ask about whether people carry weapons on the trail. This was appropriate for the forums. Discussing whether it is right and good to carry a weapon is a good volatile argument for another forum altogether.

I am closing this thread.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

Caching with weapons

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