Caching with weapons

[Broncoholics]

Man, you got alot of nerve!

 

quote:

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Everyone should firmly believe in something. And I hope you forever go through life as you are now. You are one of the lucky ones, blissfully relying on someone else to do your dirty work for you. May your 911 calls be answered quickly, and may there always be policemen nearby when you need them.

---

 

What dirty work are you referring too? Their job and not ours?????

 

You are not thinking before typing are you? All you are worried about is your statistics! Do you really think you can do better than your local police department? Isn't that what they are for? Don't you think there should be law and order in this country? How about awareness strategies? Being alert with your surroundings. Just plain common sense would help, too.

 

To the guy in England. This is a wonderful country and not all of us think that we have to go through life "on guard" with a weapon!

 

You can believe in what you want, KD, but don't criticize the people that do rely on authorities in time of need.

 

They saved my son's life...twice!

 

Candie from

Upinyachit

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[Eric O'Connor]

I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles between the various autos I've owned.

 

Not one time, not even by the smallest stretch of the imagination has the seatbelt accomplished anything other than to wrinkle my clothes. It's there just in case and it's the reason I continue to use it.

 

If I thought there was any realistic chance I'd get into a head-on collision during a drive, I'd pull over.

 

If you don't see how wearing a seatbelt is anything like carrying personal protection then don't respond.

You and I will never agree in a thousand years of typing anyway.

[Broncoholics]

Eric, I get what you are saying, and you are right. A just in case situation.

 

I forgot to mention that if I were to go caching in an area where there were dangerous animals, I would carry a weapon, but not a gun. Maybe a bat or something of that nature like that baton. Chances are, there won't be a dangerous animal seeing as most of the caches we go to are in parks and nature trails. So for those of you who carry a weapon due to preventing animal attacks, I can understand. I guess everyone will handle any situation as they see fit.

 

Just a note...

 

Candie from

Upinyachit

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[Broncoholics]

Eric, I get what you are saying, and you are right. A just in case situation.

 

I forgot to mention that if I were to go caching in an area where there were dangerous animals, I would carry a weapon, but not a gun. Maybe a bat or something of that nature like that baton. Chances are, there won't be a dangerous animal seeing as most of the caches we go to are in parks and nature trails. So for those of you who carry a weapon due to preventing animal attacks, I can understand. I guess everyone will handle any situation as they see fit.

 

Just a note...

 

Candie from

Upinyachit

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[+ionekoa]

there has to be a middle of the road. im all for guns, though i dont have a real one (i have a replica mp5... thats the one i would want) point being... guns are not the problem, its the attitude of the people that have them. from what i read it seems trouble is brewing in the sport. the "i need a rocketlauncher to protect myself on a cache" attitude is the problem (i know noone actually said rocket launcher, its called hyperbole look it up)if you are getting spooked by other people being in the woods at the same time as you, (as mentioned before "they turned out to be cachers or hikers") I sure as &^%$ dont want you to have a gun anywhere near me, its that kind of paranoia that will end up in someone getting shot for no reason. in bear and beast country i can understand, wildcats(the big ones anyway) and bears are about the only thing i wouldnt take on with my stick. if the guy has a knife and i have a walking stick, he's screwed, i have the better reach. as far as people with guns, by the time they've drawn on you, its a little late to be going for your peice, and if you draw first, well.. i think you can see where this is going... this fact leaves me confident my walking stick is appropriate for even this. most muggers, attackers approach their victems first, so it would seem to me my chances of knocking their gun away with my stick, (which they may not realize doubles as a weapon) is just as good if not better than me getting a shot off first (they will know what the gun is for and be more prepared). on the flipside, if you are responsible about it and carry a gun as a natural course of life, go to it, but it shouldnt be a "caching item" (unless as one other member said, you are getting some hunting in on the side or in bear and beast country) as for the 98lb woman 250 pound rapist scenario, their weakness is that by the nature of what they are doing they are exposing the most painsensitive part of their body, at close range (your not going to know that 250 pound guy is a rapist at 20 paces.)the knee would be a more effective weapon than a gun, which he could pry from her thin fingers and use to get rid of a potential witness/evidence/etc. as i said before im all for guns. and i think gun outlawing is stupid can you actually picture someone out there??

 

"well i was gonna commit some murders and robberies today but dang it they outlawed guns, and i wouldnt wanna break the law" how stupid can some people be?? drugs are illegal, and look at any streetcorner pharmacy... (heck cachers run into "labs" in the woods...) so this is my verdict. no guns for paranoid freaks... which some people here do sound like, they are ok for people who are responsible and dont see "attacker" in every shadow. heck.... come to think about it i may need a gun to protect me from toting cachers...

[Army_Scout]

quote:

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I forgot to mention that if I were to go caching in an area where there were dangerous animals, I would carry a weapon, but not a gun. Maybe a bat or something

---

 

So let me see. Animals are dangerous, but not people. And using a weapon is OK, just not "THAT" weapon. Interesting... very interesting. At what point is it no longer OK to defend yourself?

 

Thanks for helping make the point.

[MACpa]

After thousands of hours in the woods I have no fear of wild animals there. when just Geocaching or walking I don't carry a firearm. It is the animals at the mall and on city streets that have persuaded me to carry a firearm when I go to those places.

The duty of the Police is to protect Society not the Individual. this is why no police force has ever been succesfully sued for failure to respond in time or at all to protect an individual

A question for our friends in England: Is it true that If someone breaks into your home you are not permited to confront them and are expected to leave your own home

[magellan315]

I KNEW IT. This was going to turn into a discussion about the 2nd ammendment and I refuse to stoop this level. There are some interesting statistical and historical references I could use as a counterpoint to some of the people who are more than a little overwrought about their guns. BUT, this is a GEOCACHING message board. If you want to discuss gun control and responsible gun ownership go find an appropriate website, PLEASE.

[+ionekoa]

i see it as irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

the reason i mentioned it was to clarify that i am not some anti-gun whiner. but as i said (this is in reference to caching) i dont want people out there with lethal weapons (that have no other use) who are spooked by their own shadow, as a few of the previous posters seem to be.. i cant find it now to cut and paste but they said they were spooked by people in the woods who turned out to be hikers and cachers... when i am CACHING, i dont want to end up a few ounces of lead heavier because some paranoid lunatic got spooked because they werent the only ones in a 5 mile radius while they were CACHING... i think thats pretty relevant to CACHING.

[Eric O'Connor]

quote:

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Originally posted by magellan315:

this is a GEOCACHING message board. If you want to discuss gun control and responsible gun ownership go find an appropriate website, PLEASE.

---

 

The context is carrying protection WHILE on a geocache hunt.

 

This is something that can have an affect on how others perceive the hobby or at least the indivuals that partake in it.

Going round-and-round-and-round-and-round-and-round-and-round-and-round-and-round-forever isn't going to solve anything.

 

Trying to sweep the threat of preditors (two or more legs) while on a cache hunt isn't doing anyone any favors either.

This thread should be about identifying that threat and effective risk management.

 

Solohiker, S&W may be an evil company but they do make some lightweight scandium .357s.

That's going to be my cache hunting weapon of choice in the near future.

 

Gun lovers hate Smith and Wesson, so now I've managed to tick off both sides and can sigh the peaceful sigh of tranquility.

[Broncoholics]

Don't be ridiculous! Of course I know there are dangerous people out there! I don't go caching wondering whether or not I am going to be attacked. That's like not going to the corner store at midnight because you are afraid you will be attacked. You might as well stay in the house at all times if you are that freaked out.

 

I was referring to the guy who mentioned the wild pigs in Florida. I used to live there and I know they are all over the state. A bat would do the trick. If you fire your gun, be prepared to answer to the authorities that want to know who, what, when, where and why you did such a thing. I never said it wasn't ok to defend yourself either. If it's justified, fine. I just try and make sure I am not put in that situation.

 

Gun control = Gun control website.

 

quote:

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There are some interesting statistical and historical references I could use as a counterpoint to some of the people who are more than a little overwrought about their guns. BUT, this is a GEOCACHING message board. If you want to discuss gun control and responsible gun ownership go find an appropriate website, PLEASE.

---

 

To each his own,

 

Candie from

you know where

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[Broncoholics]

Don't be ridiculous! Of course I know there are dangerous people out there! I don't go caching wondering whether or not I am going to be attacked. That's like not going to the corner store at midnight because you are afraid you will be attacked. You might as well stay in the house at all times if you are that freaked out.

 

I was referring to the guy who mentioned the wild pigs in Florida. I used to live there and I know they are all over the state. A bat would do the trick. If you fire your gun, be prepared to answer to the authorities that want to know who, what, when, where and why you did such a thing. I never said it wasn't ok to defend yourself either. If it's justified, fine. I just try and make sure I am not put in that situation.

 

Gun control = Gun control website.

 

quote:

---

There are some interesting statistical and historical references I could use as a counterpoint to some of the people who are more than a little overwrought about their guns. BUT, this is a GEOCACHING message board. If you want to discuss gun control and responsible gun ownership go find an appropriate website, PLEASE.

---

 

To each his own,

 

Candie from

you know where

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[+Dawgies]

I've been a police officer for 19 years in the state of Texas. I can honestly say that the only victims of physical assault crimes I've ever met have been the unarmed ones. All the others were attempted crimes against armed citizens.

 

We've all heard the saying, "Never a cop around when you need one."

 

I'm always armed....ALWAYS, but that's me.

 

The right to bear arms is protected under the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

 

It's the law people. Pro or Con - Get over it!

 

And May GOD Bless Everyone!

 

~Honest Value Never Fails~

[+Dawgies]

I've been a police officer for 19 years in the state of Texas. I can honestly say that the only victims of physical assault crimes I've ever met have been the unarmed ones. All the others were attempted crimes against armed citizens.

 

We've all heard the saying, "Never a cop around when you need one."

 

I'm always armed....ALWAYS, but that's me.

 

The right to bear arms is protected under the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

 

It's the law people. Pro or Con - Get over it!

 

And May GOD Bless Everyone!

 

~Honest Value Never Fails~

[+ionekoa]

take a pellet gun, i have a few, they look real enough to get you shot by the cops, but are nonlethal and legal, so carry it openly to discourage any wouldbe attackers and leave the cannons at home, (you could take out an eye with em to if you really really wanted to)

[+ionekoa]

take a pellet gun, i have a few, they look real enough to get you shot by the cops, but are nonlethal and legal, so carry it openly to discourage any wouldbe attackers and leave the cannons at home, (you could take out an eye with em to if you really really wanted to)

[+bigredmed]

When I lived in Gainesville, we had 3 serial killers in a year, needless to say, I went from a standard, "handguns are bad" pediatrician to a 357 carrying "knew all the defensive shooting angles in his condo" pediatrician. The thing is, shooting is a skill, and like any other, it needs practice. So, I move back to God's Country, and go to the local indoor range to get some practice, what do I find? A nutbar shooting an AR 15 in the dark in an indoor range! Not only that, but after he left (I waited elsewhere till he was out of ammo), the place was crawling with shells, and several (read more than a dozen) live rounds! I never went back. Ultimately losing the skills, I sold my handguns and haven't been able to practice.

 

The thing about pepper spray is that its not easy to shoot under attack and there are no pepper spray ranges. My collapsable hiking pole is not very weighty and would do little to help in an attack. What to do?

[+ionekoa]

ok, im into the martial arts, and while i like guns, my favorite weapon of all time at this point is the cane, a walking stick, about 2.5 to 3 feet long and solid wood. just like w/ a gun it takes practice but you would be surprised at some of the things you could do to something/someone with this simple peice of equipment. the best part is, when you see someone with one you dont think "weapon" unless you are paranoid or they are already attacking. gun however triggers the "weapon" alert imediatly unless you are completely stupid. ANYTHING can be a weapon in the right circumstance. even dirt, (you can throw it into someones eyes and temporarily blind them) the best weapon you will ever have is not a stick or a gun or a nuclear warhead though, your best weapon is your mind. if thats not working right you have no bussiness with anything else. i am referring to people who see serial killers everywhere they go. if there are a few on the prowl in your area, yes it is justified to take precausions but to start waving a gun about just in case, i mean come on people. use common sense, dont go down that dark alley to talk to that shifty eyed guy, stay out of the park alone at night. lock your doors, (car and home) etc. etc. its kinda sad, some of the gun user/owners here (though thankfully not all)seem like if you took their gun away they would curl up into a little ball of fear and go into shock. learn to function people... there is both good and bad in the world we have to deal with both... and its these people (the scared ones) that end up accidentaly shooting someone who was going for a hike because oh my freakin goodness they are going to kill me. i know people like this and thank God they are too scared to ever own a gun. but every little shifting shadow sends them into a frightened frenzy. its not only irritatingly annoying but dangerous when you throw in them thinking they can defend themselves if only they have a gun. i say again. if you have a gun on you at all times, but it is NOT a caching item.

"well im going geocaching, honey get the 45, i'll take the 357, and God have mercy on anyone that beats us to the cache"

if you wanna shoot someone join the army, otherwise use some common sense folks. btw props to the guy whos whole fam is qualified, including the daughter who is "too young by law" from all i've read he's one of the FEW i would actually trust with a fire arm, most of the rest i would knock the heck out and take your weapons... i gotta look out for me...

[magellan315]

Thank you Vash. Sums up my feelings towards this whole chain of thought.

[Broncoholics]

quote:

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the best weapon you will ever have is not a stick or a gun or a nuclear warhead though, your best weapon is your mind.

---

 

Best statement I've heard yet!

 

Thanks!

 

Candie from

Upinyachit

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[Broncoholics]

quote:

---

the best weapon you will ever have is not a stick or a gun or a nuclear warhead though, your best weapon is your mind.

---

 

Best statement I've heard yet!

 

Thanks!

 

Candie from

Upinyachit

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[+Desert_Warrior]

quote:

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Don't be ridiculous! Of course I know there are dangerous people out there! If it's justified, fine. I just try and make sure I am not put in that situation.

---

 

It is a matter of responsibility really. Some people take responsibility for themselves, including their own safety. Some people prefer to let others do that work for them.

 

As the police veteran said:

quote:

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I've been a police officer for 19 years in the state of Texas. I can honestly say that the only victims of physical assault crimes I've ever met have been the unarmed ones. All the others were attempted crimes against armed citizens.

---

 

Great point! And thank you sir for your service to this fine state. Different uniform, but still a fellow soldier.

 

Mike. KD9KC

El Paso, TX.

[Broncoholics]

quote:

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It could come from the local donut shop in 15 minutes, or in your hands right now. You do the math.

---

 

If you think that police officers really do frequent donut shops instead of doing their job, you'd better think again. Sounds to me like you don't have any respect or confidence in your local police department. You must be some tally ho that thinks everyone is after him...including those who geocache. As this thread started, it was asked if anyone chose to carry a weapon while caching. So far, all I've seen from you is you on your high horse. GUNS ARE NOT THE ANSWER! ESPECIALLY GEOCACHING! This is a family sport/hobby; what are we teaching our kids? That you have to carry a weapon where ever you go? Gimme a break!

 

quote:

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if you wanna shoot someone join the army, otherwise use some common sense folks. btw props to the guy whos whole fam is qualified, including the daughter who is "too young by law" from all i've read he's one of the FEW i would actually trust with a fire arm, most of the rest i would knock the heck out and take your weapons...

---

 

I don't claim to know every single statistic or every single fact, but I can almost guarantee you that if someone or something really wanted to get you, they would kick your @$$ before you grabbed for your gun!

 

Responsible gun owner= common sense+knowledge; one of which you don't have. Get the picture?

 

You do seem to know your guns, though. How impressive!

 

 

Candie

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[Broncoholics]

quote:

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It could come from the local donut shop in 15 minutes, or in your hands right now. You do the math.

---

 

If you think that police officers really do frequent donut shops instead of doing their job, you'd better think again. Sounds to me like you don't have any respect or confidence in your local police department. You must be some tally ho that thinks everyone is after him...including those who geocache. As this thread started, it was asked if anyone chose to carry a weapon while caching. So far, all I've seen from you is you on your high horse. GUNS ARE NOT THE ANSWER! ESPECIALLY GEOCACHING! This is a family sport/hobby; what are we teaching our kids? That you have to carry a weapon where ever you go? Gimme a break!

 

quote:

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if you wanna shoot someone join the army, otherwise use some common sense folks. btw props to the guy whos whole fam is qualified, including the daughter who is "too young by law" from all i've read he's one of the FEW i would actually trust with a fire arm, most of the rest i would knock the heck out and take your weapons...

---

 

I don't claim to know every single statistic or every single fact, but I can almost guarantee you that if someone or something really wanted to get you, they would kick your @$$ before you grabbed for your gun!

 

Responsible gun owner= common sense+knowledge; one of which you don't have. Get the picture?

 

You do seem to know your guns, though. How impressive!

 

 

Candie

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[Geonavigator]

Defend your RIGHT to protect family and yourself against criminals. Join the National Rifle Association and encourage others to become members. Visit WWW.nra.org/.

[+Icenians]

quote:

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Originally posted by KD9KC:

Lets look at the other direction. Great Britain. After the Dunblain shooting (schoolyard - multiple kids) ALL guns were banned. ALL. PERIOD. The following are snippets from the Boston Globe, a very anti-gun newspaper. This is one of the oldest - safest societies in the world. Or are they?

---

 

Simply not true. My mother has a gun. We still use guns for hunting etc.

 

http://www.ukgundealer.com/rules.htm

 

I am not judging your country on gun law and use nor do I have any facts or figures I was just a little alarmed at the comments going on on this thread.

 

True, some areas of some cities over here can be a risk, areas of Manchester are probably more dangerous than London, but I was talking about hiking etc. I have never felt unsafe anywhere in the UK especially out hiking.

[+Gliderguy]

Before this thread gets so far bent that it gets closed, everyone take a breath and step back from their obviously strongly held personal beliefs.

 

Personally I am a firearm advocate, but I rarely if ever carry while Geocaching. The only time I did was back when the black bears were starving in New Mexico so badly that over 100 had to be killed statewide for ranging into towns and breaking into homes. There was one mauling death of an elderly lady. These guys were starving and werent afraid to take a bite out of anything, or come right into a major city like Albuquerque and raid your fridge or trashcan. If I was going caching into the mountains alone, I carried. I am male, and if I were female and 98lbs and needed to occasinally cache alone my criterion for carrying would be totally different.

 

One point that needs to be made is that a person who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon has:

 

A. had to go through a background screening.

B. had to go through some proficiency training.

C. has been briefed on the laws pertaining to deadly force in their locale. (he made a scarey face won't cut it with a jury. Most juristictions require you to keep a non-lethal deterrent like pepper spray on your person while carrying so you are not tempted to over-react to a less than life threatening event.)

D. by definition keeps the weapon concealed to prevent mass hysteria of those who are afraid of firearms.

 

The firearms are out there. Responsible gun owners want to keep a dialogue up with non gun owners to alleviate their fears. It is important to keep in mind that the ones talking candidly here both pro and con are not what is to be concerned about. The ones who invest the time and energy to be proficient with their weapon, know the laws, and have a non lethal alternative like pepper spray arent the ones to be concerned about. The ones who don't want the family image of geocaching to be marred by something as heavy as a firearms debate aren't the problem either.

 

The criminal element are the two legged critters to be concerned about, and as long as some of us carry and some of us do not, they are kept guessing. Even someone who doesn't carry a weapon who keeps their awareness high benefits from the 1% or less of the average population that does carry.

 

I say that the Geocaching population as a whole is too small to afford to be divided on this issue. If it got to be common knowlege that geocachers NEVER carried a weapon of any kind because it was against our creed or something, then I think you would see some fringe elements prey on us.

 

It is one thing to be fearful, as others in this thread have pointed out, and quite another to be prepared. I really don't want someone who is scared of every little critter making noise in the woods packing a firearm. They should cache in a group or find a woods-wise mentor to spend time with afield until they are comfortable in the wild. I have no problem with proficient, thoughtful people choosing to carry, even if on the day I pass them along the trail I chose not to carry.

 

It may be ironic, but I am actually more comfortable walking past a fellow hunter during hunting season, saying "Hi, seen anything?" than walking past a person in street clothes with no obvious purpose in the woods. I know what the hunter is there for. Mr Joe Mallwalker rolling around in that patch of poison ivy over there is harder to figure out.

 

I think when we run out of choices to make (whatever they are) then we run out of a reason to live. If we come even close to running out of individual choice, we certanly have run out of a country.

 

I have strong beliefs on this issue. I think everyone who has posted on this thread has strong beliefs on this issue. But lets not let them take anything away from the sport of geocaching.

[+Icenians]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MACpa:

A question for our friends in England: Is it true that If someone breaks into your home you are not permited to confront them and are expected to leave your own home

---

 

That depends on how you intend to defend yourself. A year or so ago a farmer not far from where I lived, rural Norfolk, was broken into, again, and decided to use his shotgun. He killed a 16 year old. Now rightly or wrongly when defending your PROPERTY, remember insurance can replace that but not your life, we haven't had a death penelty for burglary in this country for hundreds of years, if ever. The farmer is serving a prison sentence for murder.

 

There is nothing to stop you defending yourself or your property. If someone is going to kill you, or you have good reason to believe he is, for instance he is waveing a gun in your face then of course you can defend yourself. We do draw the line at killing someone just because he wants to steal your television set! Usually making a noise that suggests you know they are there is enough to drive them off. I have been burgled once and was 300 miles away at the time.

 

I have certainly never felt threatened to the extent I needed a gun. Especially geocaching or hiking.

[+Icenians]

quote:

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Originally posted by upinyachit:

 

To the guy in England. This is a wonderful country and not all of us think that we have to go through life "on guard" with a weapon!

 

---

 

I love coming over to the US. It's alway for work and in Detroit, not got the best reputation perhaps, but have never felt in danger. I just find it a little alarming that there could be people running around the countryside scared of anything that moves and ready to shoot it. I'd rather it wasn't me they got scared of!

 

Won't stop me geocaching on my next visit though.

 

Kev

[NetDep]

I have been in full-time law enforcement for over fifteen years at two different agencies. I am required to be armed at all times by my employer. It is no pleasure but it is a duty that I gladly accept. As for my writing to this thread - I thought it was about GPSr's. (Geocaching.com) A handgun I can deal with - that blasted Garmin V is the thing giving me problems!!! Geocaching is a hobby/sport that I enjoy to take my mind OFF the other - I am glad I found it. HAPPY & SAFE CACHING TO ALL!!

[NetDep]

I have been in full-time law enforcement for over fifteen years at two different agencies. I am required to be armed at all times by my employer. It is no pleasure but it is a duty that I gladly accept. As for my writing to this thread - I thought it was about GPSr's. (Geocaching.com) A handgun I can deal with - that blasted Garmin V is the thing giving me problems!!! Geocaching is a hobby/sport that I enjoy to take my mind OFF the other - I am glad I found it. HAPPY & SAFE CACHING TO ALL!!

[AlphaOp]

I typically carry two weapons when geocaching. I perfer taking a FN-P90-SD as a primary defensive weapon. It has low recoil, a high cyclic, compact size and ergonomic design, and a 40+ round clip. For a secondary, a silenced HK .40 gets you out of tough spots. If I go anywhere more dangerous then an area that would require that stuff, I'd take a supressed HK-UMP .45 SMG and a .357 Desert Eagle.

 

The Second Amendment: Never turn your back on a Brit! Sure, they have a pleasant country and pronounce "aluminum" funny, but if they had the chance they'd be storming our shores and raising the Union Jack! And before you'd know it we'd be driving on the wrong side of the road, eating "chips" instead of fries, and watching soccer instead of football, and we be shoved around by parilment and watching cricket. IS THAT A FUTURE YOU ARE WILLING TO RISK HAVING? WATCHING CRICKET??? And don't forget the Canadians, they're almost like half-British...

 

{serious}

I sometimes carry a pocketknife. When I get older I'm thinking of getting a 9mm, maybe a Glock. (I think my life is worth at least $500.)

{/serious}

 

CODENAME: ALPHA OPERATOR

daedalus://govlink/secure/majestic/12.12.12/ops/throne/AO

MAJESTIC-12: THRONE G6 LEVEL AGENT

http://www.planetdeusex.com

[+Desert_Warrior]

quote:

---

If you think that police officers really do frequent donut shops instead of doing their job, you'd better think again. Sounds to me like you don't have any respect or confidence in your local police department.

---

 

If you believe there is an officer waiting by the phone just to be there when you are in need, you'd better think again. Sounds to me like you are way overconfident in the "thin blue line". They are way overworked, and way understaffed. That they do what they do is amazing, all things considered.

 

BTW, although not "law enforcement" as in carrying a badge, my father did for 25 years in Chicago. And 4 years of my military service was assisting federal agencies in counter-narcotics work on the U.S. southern borders. I wish we all could go back to your world, but unfortunately, the only utopia I know is near the end of the dictionary.

 

You know, I bet if we met in person, we would get along great. Opposites attract, and I do not believe I have ever met someone as opposit to me as you. I respect your view. I have in the past and would again defend your right to it. I do however, after much experience, know which side ends up right in the end. Even you admitted you would use "some sort of club". So in the end, we are arguing over efficiency. Club, gun, club, gun, ... hmmm... is there really a choice here. I really need a small club, lightweight and easily concealed. Yep... birthday commin up...

 

Mike.

[+Icenians]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Alpha Operator:

 

The Second Amendment: Never turn your back on a Brit! Sure, they have a pleasant country and pronounce "aluminum" funny, but if they had the chance they'd be storming our shores and raising the Union Jack! And before you'd know it we'd be driving on the wrong side of the road, eating "chips" instead of fries, and watching soccer instead of football, and we be shoved around by parilment and watching cricket. IS THAT A FUTURE YOU ARE WILLING TO RISK HAVING? WATCHING CRICKET??? And don't forget the Canadians, they're almost like half-British...

---

 

Now that really is funny! Almost as funny as the time I was in the Detroit office early July and they were trying to get me back to the UK before the 4th. They really thought I'd be upset. We don't want your country back!! Honest.

[+Desert_Warrior]

quote:

---

The thing about pepper spray is that its not easy to shoot under attack and there are no pepper spray ranges. My collapsable hiking pole is not very weighty and would do little to help in an attack. What to do?

---

 

You sir do have a problem. Yes, practice is a key element. I have access to a private range, as well as the military base here. Perhaps there is more than one range in your area?

 

As far as pepper spray, dump it! Get pepper FOAM.

 

The FOAM shoots out in a heavy stream, so it doesn't blow back in your face like spray can do in the wind. It sticks like shaving cream, so it doesn't drip off. And (at least the one I carry for non-lethal use) had a violet marker dye, so you can easily identify your attacker later.

 

I hate to recommend a brand on line... so if you do not have any luck finding it, contact me direct for a product name. I have no interest in any company, no profit motive involved. Since they do recommend replacing it every few years, use the old one for practice.

 

Mike.

[+majicman]

OK,

 

Enough serious discussion, let's have sum HUMOR!

 

(Right, Sergeant!!)

 

Now, someone (hear that Criminal and Eric O'Connor) git in here and post some funny response to one of these silly chaps, or I'll be forced to do this thread in meself!

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

[+majicman]

OK,

 

Enough serious discussion, let's have sum HUMOR!

 

(Right, Sergeant!!)

 

Now, someone (hear that Criminal and Eric O'Connor) git in here and post some funny response to one of these silly chaps, or I'll be forced to do this thread in meself!

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

[Broncoholics]

You say you respect my views, KD???

 

quote:

---

I wish we all could go back to your world

---

 

What world is that? Earth? Last time I checked, we are all up in it!

 

quote:

---

blissfully relying on someone else to do your dirty work for you.

---

 

quote:

---

It is a matter of responsibility really. Some people take responsibility for themselves, including their own safety. Some people prefer to let others do that work for them.

---

 

In all of these quotes, does it sound like you are respecting my views? You act like I need to seek a person like you in order to enlighten me in feeling safe with a gun. I have held a gun, and I'm not afraid of someone who owns one. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT A GUN BELONGS IN A CHILD'S HOME. PERIOD. I have lost friends to guns. I have friends whose kids watched their father get blown away in his own home, and why? Because he owned a gun and was reaching for it when he was shot in the chest. DOA! I often wonder...what if he didn't reach for that gun? The robbery was planned by mutual acquaintances and I can assure you, the plan was not murder. The perpetrator wanted their money. He should have just given it to him instead of taking the law into his own hands. Simple as that.

 

I take mine and my family's safety very serious. I don't need a gun to do it.

 

quote:

---

This thread has gone WAAAAYY beyond the scope of Geo-Caching and I won't add any more to it here

---

 

Practice what you preach.

 

Would I carry a Gun while going caching? No. Would I want to go caching with someone who carried one? No. Take no offense, KD, that we are way different. That's what makes the world go 'round!

 

As far as you and I getting along, well....that could be another topic, now couldn't it? LOL I'm sure you're one heck of a guy.

 

Peace!!!!!

 

Candie from

Upinyachit

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[Broncoholics]

You say you respect my views, KD???

 

quote:

---

I wish we all could go back to your world

---

 

What world is that? Earth? Last time I checked, we are all up in it!

 

quote:

---

blissfully relying on someone else to do your dirty work for you.

---

 

quote:

---

It is a matter of responsibility really. Some people take responsibility for themselves, including their own safety. Some people prefer to let others do that work for them.

---

 

In all of these quotes, does it sound like you are respecting my views? You act like I need to seek a person like you in order to enlighten me in feeling safe with a gun. I have held a gun, and I'm not afraid of someone who owns one. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT A GUN BELONGS IN A CHILD'S HOME. PERIOD. I have lost friends to guns. I have friends whose kids watched their father get blown away in his own home, and why? Because he owned a gun and was reaching for it when he was shot in the chest. DOA! I often wonder...what if he didn't reach for that gun? The robbery was planned by mutual acquaintances and I can assure you, the plan was not murder. The perpetrator wanted their money. He should have just given it to him instead of taking the law into his own hands. Simple as that.

 

I take mine and my family's safety very serious. I don't need a gun to do it.

 

quote:

---

This thread has gone WAAAAYY beyond the scope of Geo-Caching and I won't add any more to it here

---

 

Practice what you preach.

 

Would I carry a Gun while going caching? No. Would I want to go caching with someone who carried one? No. Take no offense, KD, that we are way different. That's what makes the world go 'round!

 

As far as you and I getting along, well....that could be another topic, now couldn't it? LOL I'm sure you're one heck of a guy.

 

Peace!!!!!

 

Candie from

Upinyachit

 

Our feet go where the caches are!

[+Desert_Warrior]

No matter how wrong we believe each other to be, it is clear there will be no changes here. It is a testament to our freedom that this discussion went as it did.

 

I have taken no offense, I hope you have not either. Words alone are sometimes mistaken without body language, so I always give the benefit of doubt. Especially with -MY- writing style.

 

I am quite comfortable in my skill, situational awareness, and practical knowledge, gained from a life lived around law enforcement and military.

 

You obviously have had a bad experience, only showing up in your last post. I am very sorry for your troubles. Wish I or someone could have prevented them. Alas, that was not to be, and there is no right answer for it.

 

The bottom line is, there are a growing number of folks like me here. There are just enough of us to keep the bad guys guessing. Who is, and who isn't?

 

We are no threat to you. Mostly, you don't even know we are around. I could be your doctor, your laywer (bad joke here, lawyers armed???) or the guy behind the counter at the all-night supermarket. We have been checked, double checked, and looked at again. Finger-printed, photographed, and licensed. Military and medical records were all open, classes taught, tests taken, refreshers required, certificates printed. Our reason for doing it doesn't matter. We are no threat to you.

 

We both believe in avoidance. I do not seek a fight. I had a belly full of that long before I ever joined the military. 1968 in Chicago was my first taste of combat. It taught me that anything you do, including nothing at all, can get you killed. Dad was out on the streets trying to quell the riots. Mom and I were home alone. We made it. That was my first test, at 13.

 

Killing someone over an insult or a stolen stereo is not worth it. Do you think your life is worth saving? Your kids? Husband? My rule is, if I can replace it, at any cost, let them have it. If it cannot be replaced, defend it. There is of course a -GRAY- area there. (Isn't there always)?

 

My personal laws... I will leave rather than argue. I will argue rather than fight. I will fight rather than use pepper FOAM. I will use pepper foam rather than draw a gun. I will draw the gun and try to wait for the bad guy to run. But if they do not run...... my family will not be fatherless!

 

There is no dishonor in running, if you can do so. If you are wheelchair bound (as one of my students is, 76 y/o lady) then the rules change.

 

BTW, my daughter is 15, and very much into martial arts as a defense. She also shoots pistol and rifle matches with me. She intende to join the Air Force after school.

 

I hope this makes me look less radical to you.

 

Thanks for the lively discussion. You forced me to dig for stats that were burried in my computer. I never did get to go caching today, but I did get the new body mounts on my jeep, and my dog still loves me... so the day was not a total waste.

 

If we ever do meet while caching, you needn't worry. I will not shoot you just because I wanted that trinket from that cache first. (Is that humerous enough?)

 

Best you you and yours.

 

Mike.

[+ionekoa]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mitsuko:

I always feel safer in Japan.

 

Handguns are forbidden there. Sure the mafia still can get weapons, but for the most part it's much safer.

I had dual-citizenship until I turned 18 and chose the US, but if I ever decide to leave, it will be so I can walk down the street at night without fear.

 

On the other hand, people here in the States will hold a door open for me on occasion. I guess I can never leave.

---

i think you are very pretty, has nothing to do with guns... but thats getting old....(and here i was wanting to qualify and become a cop/bountyhunter/armed gaurd or something... time to make new plans... and as my namesake would say

 

LOVE AND PEACE!! LOVE AND PEACE!!! LOVE AND PEACE!!!

[+ionekoa]

ps. please teach me Japanese.... ... hehehe...

[+ionekoa]

ps. please teach me Japanese.... ... hehehe...

[+ionekoa]

i am about to hide my first cache, should i put bullets in it?? you know.. batteries for the GPS, bullets for the gun... what caliber is the most popular? (Btw in case its not blatently obvious i am being sarcastic) remember the only reason guns are so dangerous is because they are used wrong, stop using them as weapons against people and use them as the toys they were meant to be... (gotta love that target shooting)

[+ionekoa]

i am about to hide my first cache, should i put bullets in it?? you know.. batteries for the GPS, bullets for the gun... what caliber is the most popular? (Btw in case its not blatently obvious i am being sarcastic) remember the only reason guns are so dangerous is because they are used wrong, stop using them as weapons against people and use them as the toys they were meant to be... (gotta love that target shooting)

[Mike Chmi]

Or are you all sitting around here saying the same thing over and over again and getting more and more pissed off.

 

I understand both the anti gun and pro gun people have strong beliefs on this one. And unfortunately when that is the case people will ignore data that supports the other side. So no matter how much data you throw out, or how much you argue, your getting nowhere. Especially over a forum like this. And yes maybe I to am partially to blame for responding twice to this thread already.

 

So we have a choice, beat this rotting corpse of a horse some more, or get the $#$& away from our keyboards and go caching.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

[TahoeJoe]

It scares me to think of all these geocachers out their carrying loaded weapons. If there is a cache that you are going to visit and you feel you need a loaded gun with you, then I would not visit that cache. I have yet come upon a situation where I said “I wish I would have brought a assault rife with me”. I have always thought of geocaching as a safe and sane activity. Many geocachers have their children with them and it scares me to think of them running into someone with a loaded weapon. The only protection I ever carry is mosquito repellant. Please leave the paranoia and gun at home!

[+leatherman]

quote:

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Originally posted by vash the stampede:

i am about to hide my first cache, should i put bullets in it?? you know.. batteries for the GPS, bullets for the gun... what caliber is the most popular?

---

 

I'll take mine over easy in .40 cal.

 

 

Preperation, the first law to survival.

[+ApK]

quote:

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Originally posted by vash the stampede:

take a pellet gun, i have a few, they look real enough to get you shot by the cops, but are nonlethal and legal, so carry it openly to discourage any wouldbe attackers and leave the cannons at home, (you could take out an eye with em to if you really really wanted to)

---

 

A very bad idea and inaccurate information.

Want to know more? Email me.

 

:-)

[+ApK]

quote:

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Originally posted by vash the stampede:

take a pellet gun, i have a few, they look real enough to get you shot by the cops, but are nonlethal and legal, so carry it openly to discourage any wouldbe attackers and leave the cannons at home, (you could take out an eye with em to if you really really wanted to)

---

 

A very bad idea and inaccurate information.

Want to know more? Email me.

 

:-)