Moving Others Stash's

[Guest bcbpbob]

Not long ago, someone found my stash and logged that it was very difficult to find. So they adjusted it, to make it easier. I thought that was a little out of line, but let it go. Now, someone else has found my stash, and logged that they saw it from 85 feet away. So it has most likely been deliberatly moved. If you knew the stash, you would understand why I think this. My question is: Is'nt it up to the owner of the stash to determine how, and where they want to hide it? I don't understand the mentality of these people that felt it would be a better hunt, if the stash was easier to find. I say " Hide your own stash and keep your hands off others" I think you return the found stash to the same condition that you found it. Any comments on this?

[Guest makaio]

I absolutely agree. Cache seekers have no idea what motivation the hider used when placing the cache in the spot they did. The precise spot was apparently chosen for a reason and the cache should remain exactly where the hider placed it. If a searcher thinks it's too difficult to find, he/she should log it and leave it up to the owner to decide if it needs to be relocated.

[Guest Quinnow]

No...you guys are both wrong!

Of course those types of people knew where you meant to place it, thats why they moved it. They knew you would never have placed a cache where it would have been an adventure to find. After all...what fun is it if you actually have to look for it. Everyone should be able to just walk right up (if not drive) to the cache and sign the logbook.

Heck I don't know why we just don't place them on the sidewalks to make it even that much more easier.

Hunt for the cache, Find the cache, Replace the cache as it was and Leave!

Nobody should EVER move a cache from where it was placed. Though there was one of mine that due to the wind fell out of a crotch in a tree where I placed it. Another person found it on the ground and knowing from my cache text, replaced it in the tree. Thanks

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest Quinnow]

No...you guys are both wrong!

Of course those types of people knew where you meant to place it, thats why they moved it. They knew you would never have placed a cache where it would have been an adventure to find. After all...what fun is it if you actually have to look for it. Everyone should be able to just walk right up (if not drive) to the cache and sign the logbook.

Heck I don't know why we just don't place them on the sidewalks to make it even that much more easier.

Hunt for the cache, Find the cache, Replace the cache as it was and Leave!

Nobody should EVER move a cache from where it was placed. Though there was one of mine that due to the wind fell out of a crotch in a tree where I placed it. Another person found it on the ground and knowing from my cache text, replaced it in the tree. Thanks

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest 300mag]

I agree.A cache should not be moved.This could result in people looking at the wrong place or like you say just driving up to the cache rolling down the window and signing the log book.I think if the cache is too easily found it isn't as much fun.It is way more satisfying and fun finding a difficult cache.If the person cannot find or think it is too hard to find they can always send a message to the owner but leave the cache at it's original position.This is all removing the cachers intention.This is also why we have ratings for caches.People could make note of these and seek a cache accordingly.If they want easy caches they wouldn't need a gps. No gps No geocaching. A gps will bring you close but the fun is finding the actuall location of the cache.You can see what the owner wanted you to see or where he wanted you to travel for finding it.

[Guest Ron Streeter]

Bob and I are cache hunting acquaintences through posts and emails. I told him I was going to be in the area and that I would check out his cache.

 

In fact, it wasn't MOVED but was left quite exposed. I was the first one to find the cache some months ago and it took me 30 minutes to find it. I knew if someone left it that exposed they either put it in a more obvious place, or had left it exposed. I recovered it and it is OK again.

 

Part of my thinking reflects all of the comments above, AND when I worked so hard to find it, I don't think others should be able to walk up to it (though that walk is punishing believe me).

 

So, cache finders, please rehide the cache as you found it...it's not your place to change the hunt in any way from its original location or camouflage.

[Guest bcbpbob]

Thanks for your input. I thought my thinking on this was correct, and you folks have affirmed that for me. I hope that all who read this thread, understand that a cache is a personal thing. Like the other thread about publishing pictures of others stash's. You should not take liberties with others stashes. This portion of the game, "Hiding stash's", will develope more as the game matures. The subtle nuances of this portion of the game, can only mature, if it is clearly understood ;It is the owner, and only the owner, who manipulate all the portions that make up the whole, of creating and placing a stash.

The hunter; No pictures, No hints, No movement.... No nothing. Hunt....Find...Take... Leave & Log....

[Guest Markwell]

I'm posting this in two threads because it applies to both conversations. I have two points:

 

1) What about incorrect coordinates?

 

The first cache hunt I ever went on was rated 1/1 and specifically called itself a cache geared toward kids. I went to the coordinates and searched diligently with my 5 year old for 2 hours, and finally gave up.

 

After reviewing the earlier logs, I found that one of the early seekers said that the coordinates seemed off, and he published corrected coordinates in his post. Using the corrected coordinates, my son, a nephew and myself went pretty much right to the site, having taken a different path - and the cache was a good 150 feet from where we were looking before.

 

2) What about insurmountable obstacles not mentioned in the descriptions?

 

For example, a hypothetical hider may intentionally leave out the fact that his hypothetical cache is only accessable by wearing hip waders and going out to an island the middle of a river. He may also think that this is an easy cache and that the terrain is not difficult. If the hider didn't tell me about hte hip waders, I'd be kinda ticked off if I had driven an hour to get there only to find I couldn't reach the goal. In this example, I would have appreciated another seeker leaving the information to either bring a swimsuit or hip waders.

 

I agree that while I don't want a 3.5 difficulty level cache to have links to a webpage that lays out a hand-drawn map complete with pictures of instersections of the trails; nor do I want someone to tie a red flag to a tree within 10 feet of any cache. However, I also believe that we can't deal in absolutes.

 

BTW - I also see both sides of the argument - I agree that no one forces hiders to look at the logs or follow the posts to make it easier for themselves; but I also agree that if a hider intentionally makes a cache difficult, it is not a seeker's right to make it easier for others.

 

Remember: Absolutely NOTHING is absolute.

 

[This message has been edited by Markwell (edited 30 April 2001).]

[Guest bcbpbob]

Markwell, Your right. Absolute is a bit extreme. There are of course some circumstances, where it would be necessary to change a stash. If the location is wrong, and the owner won't correct it. I don't know if I agree with your example about the Hip-Wadders. I think that 5 stars= Special equiptment. So the owner would need to adreess the stash that way, or warn seekers of the need for special equiptment.

 

So I will withdrawl the "Absolute" and replace it with "Generally Speaking". However, my point is the same, we need rules and guidelines that dictate the roles and limets of both Hiders & Seekers. We need to temper these rules with some common sense, and expect that there are those out there, who assume that the rules don't apply to them.... generally speaking, if you run into bad coordinates, or difficulty beyond what the stars indicate, all you should do is notify the owner...

[Guest cache_only]

Man, I would be irate if somebody moved my cache. Whether to make it easier or more difficult is not the issue, just moving the darned thing is, to me, a very serious infraction of the "Geocaching Code."

 

It reminds me of a person who will sit on another person's motorcycle without their permission. Tell me, if my truck door were left unlocked, would you open 'er up and have a seat in my truck?

 

Some people are just flat-out brain dead.

[Guest makaio]

In the case of incorrect coords... If/when the logs indicate multiple search failures, the owner should revisit the cache location and double check his readings. Case in point

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=373

 

This cache was originally posted with coords using the wrong datum. A half dozen people failed to locate it so the owner returned, realized his mistake and reposted it with updated information. Thankfully, none of the previous visiotors took it upon themselves to reposition the cache.

 

This is and should remain the proper course of action for such situations, imo.

[Guest Markwell]

Just a clarification - in the case of incorrect coordinates, I don't suggest moving the cache. Of course, notify the hider. But in my case, the hider didn't change his post after someone entered the correct coordinates in the log book 3 months ago. My point was that I didn't feel this was a "spoiler" as some people have inferred. This was just a correction.

[Guest Mike_Teague]

If the coords are THAT far off, then you wouldn't have found the cache to begin with.. If they are off by within a couple hundred feet, that is probably just a lousy fix.. (especially with inexperienced GPS users)

 

I encourage everyone to remember, that at BEST, under IDEAL circumstances (no trees, no mountains, flat ground with 12 sats visible to the receiver, no geomagnetic storms, etc. etc.) we get 10-15 meters of accuracy..

 

Whatever the case, dont move caches... It occurs to me that alot of people go out geocaching before reading the various documents on this site about which datum, what coordinate format, etc, to use... That may also be a factor..

[Guest Eoghan]

I would definitely be torqued off if someone relocated a cache I hid. But it does bring up the issue of rehiding a cache after you've logged in. Sometimes there is the same impulse for people to either leave it less covered if they felt it was "too difficult" or cover it up more to make it "more difficult" or to keep non cachers from accidentally finding it. I try to pay attention to how it's covered before pulling it out and then try to cover it up as closely as possible to its previous state. But in a way, that's the risk you take when you put it out there. You lose control over it and just have to hope for the best. I've started looking for places and items to cover the cache so that there are as few options as possible for obscuring it, so that it's more likely to stay as true to the way I placed it as possible.

[Guest Ramness570]

First off, cool I didn?t know we had a forum till recently.

 

Second I had one of my caches relocated for me. After four months of people finding it about once every other week I got an email saying it was gone. Went out the next day and began searching the area, wasn't where I left it nor could I locate it in the area. After about 45 minutes I gave up. Went home and emailed the last person that logged they found it asking them where it was located when they found it. They advised they found it in a hole covered in leaves (was originally nestled next to a dead tree). So off I went again in search of it, found it about 20 feet away from the original location in a hole. So far so good stash will be a year old in October.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=182

 

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Brian & TabascoX

Senior Memeber Southeast Xterra Club

Geocaching since October 2000.

[Guest Avatar]

On my first day geocaching I found a yellowjacket nest about 12" away from a cache and relocated it out of harms way. I immediately emailed the cache owner to let them adjust the waypoint or return it after killing the bees. They did the latter but unfortunately not before another geocacher attempted to find in in the original location. I felt really guilty about that but felt, at the time, a temporary relocation was best for safety's sake.

[Guest rusty]

I think newbies are the biggest offenders of this. They don't always research the sport before heading out to find their first cache. I'm not making a judgement on that just stating what I feel the cause is. Here is a quote from a log I was just reading:

 

"...We felt that the cache was not adequately covered by the long log and added a small rotted board over the cache to improve concealment.."

 

This person was the 1st to find this cache and it was one of their first couple finds. They also left live ammo in trade but the cache owner logged that he intends to remove that as soon as he possibly can. I really believe that some people don't go any further on this site than entering their zipcode and printing the closest stashes.

 

Rusty...

 

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Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page

[Guest ClayJar]

I've run across one cache that had apparently been investigated by non-sentient beings (my guess would be squirrels; it was a micro). I had no idea what the original condition of the cache was, but I rehid it as close to the description as I could, and I noted that in my log. It seemed like the best I could do was to attempt to recapture the spirit of the cache, although it should be noted that I have very little experience with micros and my preferences preclude my gaining any more experience in the near future.

[Guest ClayJar]

I've run across one cache that had apparently been investigated by non-sentient beings (my guess would be squirrels; it was a micro). I had no idea what the original condition of the cache was, but I rehid it as close to the description as I could, and I noted that in my log. It seemed like the best I could do was to attempt to recapture the spirit of the cache, although it should be noted that I have very little experience with micros and my preferences preclude my gaining any more experience in the near future.

[Guest bunkerdave]

There are always the possible issues regarding preserving the environment to contend with.

 

I have never personally moved anyone's cache. However, I think it is important to bear in mind that the possibility always exists that a cache placement could present so serious a threat to various natural/archaeological resources, that it may be necessary to move that cache immediately. This could be anything from increasing the impact on an Indian ruin, to creating an unsightly trail through the forest where none was before. The responsibility for this rests primarily with the cache owner, but that doesn't always work. I have dealt personally with the BLM and Forest Service on these very issues, and the only way they are inclined to allow us to continue our hobby on the land they manage is if there is some procedure for dealing with these issues. Otherwise, they will simply remove the caches.

 

As I said, I have never moved/removed a cache. However, I am not convinced that I will never feel it is expedient to do so. I reserve the right to relocate any cache I might find, for the reasons stated above. Clearly, if it is closer to home, I will first attempt to contact the owner and alert them to what I feel is a problem. If it is more remote, like some of my own caches, I will probably just relocate it immediately. In my opinion, we have more at stake in some of these issues than simply preserving the cacher's "original intent." I do agree that caches should not be moved simply because someone thought the cache was "too hard." However when it comes to respecting the wishes of land managers, who have a real ability to wreck our hobby, we should empower other cachers to rectify situations they encounter as they are out hunting.

[Guest jc364]

The bottom line is.........leave the caches where and how you found them!!

[Guest Moun10Bike]

st received a report that a cacher moved one of mine. He had the best of intentions in mind (there was a nearby wasp nest that had formed), but in so doing he invalidated my hints, my photos, not to mention my reasons for hiding the cache where I did in the first place.

 

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Jon (Moun10Bike)

29H/107F

N 47° 36.649', W 122° 3.616'

www.switchbacks.com/geocaching.html

[Guest BigDoggie]

Here's a thought... a minicache attached by a magnet or velcro, under the shelf of one of those drive-up pay phones you see in Interstate highway rest stops!

 

Talk about TERRAIN = 0.01!

 

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Interested in Geocaching in the state of Georgia? Visit the Georgia Geocachers Association at http://gageocaching.tripod.com

[Guest rmpgis]

I just did a quick count For = 4 & Against = 7. Some folks were skipped, I couldn't find a clear opinion. All of the For votes mentioned safety or damage to environment as concerns.

 

Clearly, don't move a cache because you think it's too easy/hard or poorly placed for some aesthetic reason.

 

1. How does the "Don't Move" camp feel about environmental damage? see BunkerDave's post

 

2. Or immediate safety concerns? wasps, hanging deadfall...

 

My votes.

1. OK to move. Try to contact owner first but some cases may require immediate action.

2. OK to move. Only for new hazards or very obvious hazards listed as 1/1.

 

Moving should not be taken lightly. I think that some provisions for moving a cache need to be written.

 

John

[Guest urbo]

i say.. LET IT BE! if its near a wasp nest then note that on your logging and advise the hider, dont take it upon yourself to move it. its rude and screws up whatever theme/idea/view/enviroment/experience the geocacher that hid it wanted to impart upon other geocachers. i had one of my urban microcaches moved by a friend but that was after a phone call explaining what was going on (table was occupied) so he stuck it under a different table. hints and coord's still applied. leaves and stuff blow around so use your common sense when covering them back up. obviously you wouldnt leave one on the ground with a big "i'm here!" all over it but dont relocate them!

 

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"urbo"

robert ke4mcl

[Guest Czar of Ridgeland]

An annoying act similar to moving a cache is marking its location in some way. In the Chicago area on several occasions, I have searched for caches and upon closing in have seen walking sticks, stumps, logs, etc., propped up right next to the cache, drawing me right to it. Checking on my own hidden cache, someone propped a walking stick unnaturally against it. Whether intentional or accidental, the net effect is a big sign stating "The Cache is Right Over Here!" I've always thrown these markers away when I encounter them and I hope others do the same.

[Guest Ramness570]

quote:

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Originally posted by Czar of Ridgeland:

An annoying act similar to moving a cache is marking its location in some way.

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Yes that is annoying, I had some rehide one of mine back under the pine straw, but then take 2 big stick and make a nice "X marks the spot" over it

 

 

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Brian & TabascoX

Senior Memeber Southeast Xterra Club

Geocaching since October 2000.