+SylvrStorm Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by sbell111:Does anyone think that it _is_ appropriate to log one's own (non-moving) cache as found? No, but I don't care enough to complain about it either. SylvrStorm *** Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and they laugh at you. *** Quote Link to comment
umc Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 "Does anyone think that it is appropriate to log one's own (non-moving) cache as found?" I think we covered that already but no I think that is wrong also. I used to think it was ok to log your own moving/traveling cache as found as many times as you wanted as long as someone else hid it. I don't really agree with that any more either. ______________________________________________________________________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
+SylvrStorm Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by umc:I used to think it was ok to log your own moving/traveling cache as found as many times as you wanted as long as someone else hid it. I don't really agree with that any more either. Any particular reason? Is it the multiple finds on the same cache, or the temporary nature of travelling caches, or something else? What do you think of multiple finds on a travelling cache, with other hiders in between, if it's not the owner? This is another one of those "I don't really care either way" things for me, but I'm still curious about other peoples' reasoning. SylvrStorm *** Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and they laugh at you. *** Quote Link to comment
umc Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 No particular reason. Its just a personal preference of mine for logging any of my own caches whether its a traveler hid by someone else or not. I think that as a finder of someone elses traveling cache then log it as many times as you can (and as you said) as long as its hid by different people in between. We have a traveling cache here in Michigan that travels around one pretty large county and its a blast to pick it up if it makes it to your section of the woods. The fact that its always within driving distance makes it fun but I'm sure that can be taken too far, as I could log it every other time if I wanted. Should there be a limit? Not sure, too many subjective issues here aye? ______________________________________________________________________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
+r0b Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 It's all in fun! [This message was edited by r0b on June 24, 2003 at 08:06 PM.] [This message was edited by r0b on June 25, 2003 at 05:44 AM.] Quote Link to comment
martmann Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I voted other, I don't really care too much how others count their finds, in my area there are a couple of cachers that log a find any time they visit a cache, even if they are just dropping off a TB, and have already logged a find before, others that log a find on their own cache. I think it's cheezy, but heck, it's their count. I think by far the lamest thing is not logging a 'couldn't find it' when you looked for the cache but couldn't find it, even if you find it the next day. I've seen logs that say 'this is my third try, and I finally found it' and you look in the log, and there is no 'couldn't find it' log. A 'couldn't find it' log can be valuable info for the cache owner and other cachers, and who exactly are they fooling anyway. Some of the above can be caused by noobie mistakes, by people who never really care to read any of the guidelines, some aren't. Compared to those, logging event/temp caches is no big deal, at least they found the amount of caches they logged, even if they weren't official. I did log a CITO event as a find, as that was the consensus, and I felt like it should be counted. I see a lot of log entries from most of the cachers in my area, it isn't hard to tell the ones with integrity, from the occasional ones without. _________________________________________________________ If trees could scream, would we still cut them down? Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason. Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest) Quote Link to comment
+a182pilot Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I hunted the cache permanent or temporary, found it, signed the logbook, and I will log it as a find whether it be on its own page or on an event page. That's how I play the game. I don't log my own caches or log caches twice. That is also how I play the game. If someone wanted to set up an event cache like was mentioned before with 100 Chrsitmas lights, as long as I went to the trouble of signing each and every logbook then I would log each and every cache on the event page. I'm not in a race with anyone and I play the game for my enjoyment, for whatever that's worth. A182pilot He who angers you, controls you. Quote Link to comment
+CoronaKid Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Why all this bickering? The solution seems simple to me. I suggest creating a separate "found" category for event caches, just like travel bugs. Instead of a yellow smiley face icon, have a yellow picnic bench icon to denote it as an event cache. This "log event cache" option would only be available on event cache pages. The "event caches found" stat would be listed on the user's profile. It seems like a win-win to me. What do you think? --CoronaKid Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I like CoronaKid's idea. After all, an event is not a cache. Quote Link to comment
+Geo Dee Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 This discussion is about personal ethics, as I see it. Normally, I do not care how others' ethics affect their logs. Even MY ethics are not engraved in stone; I'm a geocacher so they're engraved in mud. For example: if someone gave me a password for a virtual cache would I log it without actually visiting it? Not likely. If I came upon a group of cachers at a cache that they had exposed would I log it as a find? Sure. Would I individually log temporary caches at an event? Well, that would depend on how I felt about the situation at the time my fingers were poised over the keyboard. Do I log failures? For good or ill, I log all my visits, but that has nothing to do with ethics. I just believe it's funny to think that I may have more failures logged than anyone else in Texas (I amuse easily). Back on the subject, I don't believe anyone should dictate my ethics to me. I don't believe I should dictate anyone else's ethics either. I may just shake my head and walk away, though. As a modern witch would say, "If it harms no one, do what you want." Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Not a bad idea, but it's not really win-win, since it rules against people who believe they should be able to log multiple finds. This solution would mean they could log *no* finds, and the argument is that some event caches are just as valid as regular caches. Funny thing: I went to one event last year that was just a gathering at a restuarant. I was the first to log it when I got home. There were no caches to find, so I logged it as a note instead of a find. All but two people after that did the same. As far as I know, no one had an issue either with that either way. If everyone else had logged Founds, I wouldn't have cared in the least. If someone had logged a find for every beer they drank, I'd have thought "Huh?" and left it at that. How about this: let's just abolish different kinds of logs altogether. From now on, nothing but notes. Imagine the amount of controversy that would be avoided. Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams Quote Link to comment
+carleenp Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote: I suggest creating a separate "found" category for event caches, just like travel bugs. Instead of a yellow smiley face icon, have a yellow picnic bench icon to denote it as an event cache. This "log event cache" option would only be available on event cache pages. The "event caches found" stat would be listed on the user's profile. It seems like a win-win to me. What do you think? Good idea! I like it! Dinoprophet: I think people could then still log multiple finds on the event page, it is just that there would be a separate statistic for event caches found. Quote Link to comment
+CoronaKid Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Dinoprophet:Not a bad idea, but it's not really win-win, since it rules against people who believe they should be able to log multiple finds. This solution would mean they could log *no* finds, and the argument is that some event caches are just as valid as regular caches. I think you may have slightly misunderstood what I was suggesting. You'd still have the option of logging the event as a normal cache find but only ONCE. All subsequent caches found at the event would be classified as "event caches." While this wouldn't stop someone from logging all the event caches as normal finds, I think most folks would log honestly. Of course, this is all wishful thinking on my part. --CoronaKid Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by CoronaKid:I think you may have slightly misunderstood what I was suggesting. You'd still have the option of logging the event as a normal cache find but only ONCE. All subsequent caches found at the event would be classified as "event caches." No, I think I misunderstood significantly. I'm still not sure it would make everyone happy. Eh, but what will. Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 We'll be at an event cache this Saturday. There are 7 caches that will be set up for the event. In order to find the meeting place for the event, you must find all 7 caches. We will be logging one find for the event because it is nothing more than a multicache with a meeting at the end instead of a physical cache. Now, if the event organizer decides to leave the 7 caches set up and make them into individual caches we can log a find on each page once they are 'official' caches and one find on the event cache page. Either way, there is only one find for the 'event' no matter if there are other caches included in it. We did another event cache a few weeks ago. There were 3 temporary caches set up for the event only. We logged one find for the event, not 4. Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness Quote Link to comment
umc Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by CoronaKid:Why all this bickering? The solution seems simple to me. I suggest creating a separate "found" category for event caches, just like travel bugs. Instead of a yellow smiley face icon, have a yellow picnic bench icon to denote it as an event cache. This "log event cache" option would only be available on event cache pages. The "event caches found" stat would be listed on the user's profile. It seems like a win-win to me. What do you think? --CoronaKid Thats all good and dandy but when it comes to ideas we need to stick with what we have available to us now. I don't see the loggin protocol changing to accomidate a system like this but its not a bad idea. Dinoprophet. The note idea is good but again, ITS ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. Anyone saying different would log caches as a note. ______________________________________________________________________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
+TrimblesTrek Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by umc:... ITS ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. Anyone saying different would log caches as a note. I think that's kind of silly. If I just logged cache finds as notes, there would be no way to know which ones I've found, and which ones I haven't found. One stat I would like to see is how many *Not Founds* I've logged, along with a page showing them all. Sadly, Jeremy is overworked enough without worrying about every wish and whim. I think it's a great game, with a super site to keep track of things for us all, no matter how we individually use the stats. TrimblesTrek Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by umc:Dinoprophet. The note idea is good No one says that about my serious ideas! quote:but again, ITS ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. Anyone saying different would log caches as a note. Au contraire. I was excited to get to 100, but I honestly couldn't tell you without looking exactly how many I have at this moment. I no longer care about the numbers. But I'll still log everything properly because besides it being a courtesy to the hider, my logs are a record of my caching history, the only record I keep. Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by umc:No particular reason. Its just a personal preference of mine for logging any of my own caches whether its a traveler hid by someone else or not. I log my own travelling cache, but not every second time... Quote Link to comment
+a182pilot Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I disagree with those who think an event is not a cache. It is just as good and most of the time better than a film canister hidden in the bushes in a downtown flower pot. An event has posted coords, a logbook to sign and the value gained by meeting other cachers is invaluable. I believe that event caches have better trading goodies, knowledge, most people can't post a TNLN log on one. They are much better than most virtuals I've seen, but that's a whole other topic. A182pilot He who angers you, controls you. Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by a182pilot:I disagree with those who think an event is not a cache. It is just as good and most of the time better than a film canister hidden in the bushes in a downtown flower pot. An event has posted coords, a logbook to sign and the value gained by meeting other cachers is invaluable. I agree. So go to an event cache, enjoy it, and log it ONCE. And if any temporary caches have been placed for the event, enumerate them in the ONE "find" log you are entitled to for attending the event once. Quote Link to comment
+JoGPS Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 SIMPLE If you HUNT it , you FIND it, you Sign it, THEN LOG IT JOE Quote Link to comment
umc Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by JoGPS:SIMPLE If you HUNT it , you FIND it, you Sign it, THEN LOG IT JOE So could that translate into: One hunt, one find, one log, one found post? ______________________________________________________________________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by umc: So could that translate into: One hunt, one find, one log, one found post? Actually, it DOES; there's no other way to read it .... I couldn't find a plural among all those "its." Quote Link to comment
+JoGPS Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Nope it means if there are a lots or one to hunt , it does not matter if they are all 200 feet apart or five miles. If you find it, sign it, LOG it……….. JOE Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by JoGPS:Nope it means if there are a lots or one to hunt , it does not matter if they are all 200 feet apart or five miles. If you find it, sign it, LOG it……….. JOE This is getting SO confusing. If THEY are 200 feet (or five miles) apart, and you log IT, how do you choose which one to log and which ones not to log? Quote Link to comment
+JoGPS Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 It seems the only ones that are confused are BassoonPilot and umc you just simply LOG them all if you find them where ever they are at........JOE Heeeeeeee Heeeeeeee Quote Link to comment
umc Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by JoGPS:It seems the only ones that are confused are BassoonPilot and umc you just simply LOG them all if you find them where ever they are at........JOE Heeeeeeee Heeeeeeee Watch your tongue. It may be true that I'm confused but the person below me is more confused. ______________________________________________________________________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I resemble that remark. Ho Ho, Ha Ha, It is to laugh... Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Oh, great. There goes another thread shot to hell by people singing tunes from "Mary Poppins." Quote Link to comment
umc Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Well I think this thread has served its purpose and stayed on track pretty well. Thanks to everyone who posted their comments here. I thought the numbers would have turned out a little differently but hey, now we know. ______________________________________________________________________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by JoGPS:... you just simply LOG them all if you find them where ever they are at Spent a lot of time with Yogi Berra, have you? Quote Link to comment
+Web-ling Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot:So go to an event cache, enjoy it, and log it _ONCE._ And if any temporary caches have been placed for the event, enumerate them in the _ONE_ "find" log you are entitled to for attending the event _once._ I would agree, if the temporary caches could be logged as separate caches (as they used to). But since they can't, and TPTB have stated that the way to handle temporary caches at events is to log them all on the event cache page, then that's how it should be done. Finding a well-placed temporary cache is more difficult than finding a similarly placed permanent cache, due to the limited window of opportunity. Therefore, the 'credit' received for finding it is more deserved. Your experiences may be different, but the 'average' temporary cache I've found or hidden for an event has been far more challenging than the 'average' permanent cache I've seen listed in my area. And yes, it's about the numbers. So what? I like numbers. Quote Link to comment
+Web-ling Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot:Spent a lot of time with Yogi Berra, have you? ...hunting temporary caches at an event cache in Jellystone Park (or is that Yankee Stadium?) Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I hope those cachers who have to leave event caches to go purchase more food or drinks remember to claim another find each time they return to the meeting area ... or maybe attendees should claim a new find for each cacher present ... because like temporary caches, each is an integral part of the event. I agree with you that if temporary caches were still permitted (as they should be), there would be no need for this discussion. But they aren't, so the finds aren't legitimate "geocaching.com" finds. Event caches are simply "private caches" that can be enumerated the single find individuals are entitled to claim for attending the event. quote:...hunting temporary caches at an event cache in Jellystone Park (or is that Yankee Stadium?) Actually, it's more likely to be Yogi Berra Stadium in Montclair, NJ (home to the Yogi Berra Museum and Learning Center AND the NJ Jackals) or Yankee Stadium. [This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 26, 2003 at 02:33 PM.] Quote Link to comment
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