What worries you the most while caching?

August 12, 2003

I have decided to quit regular GeoCaching. After a number of smaller scares, and last week another scare, I have decided the hobby is not for me. Last Friday I went and found a cache that was hidden in what appeared to be a roadside park, only to learn from someone watching over the property that it was instead private property. I have always done everything I can to stay out of legal issues, and GeoCaching certainly can gray the line between what is legal and what is not.

At first the newness of the hobby blinded me to the issues that one could get into when searching for and hiding a cache. Not to mention the harm it may do to the environment. While I do not see any harm with Reverse or Virtual caches in public or approved locations, contemporary caches are often placed with little regard as to common sense. I know for I have placed some illogically myself.

To me the main issue goes back to the legality of what we do. We willfully litter and in many cases ignore private property. Over the weekend I attempted one cache that I was outright told that it was private property and another cache as located so that if I attempted to retrieve I would have had to set on/through someone’s landscape. I am a HUGE advocate of personal property but during my time GeoCaching I look back and realize how many times during GeoCaching that I have had to skirt the line between private and public property.

As the hobby continues to grow, I believe this will become more and more of an issue as the number of public areas that we can legally (which is also up for interpretation) grow smaller and smaller. Also while initially it was somewhat enticing to be covert while caching, that being covert or suspicious in this day and age is not the wisest thing to do. This is why starting ASAP I am going to start archiving my caches, and perform more virtual caches and reverse caches. Usually the worse thing doing a virtual cache is just looking like a goofy tourist.

As to the poll question:

"What worries you the most when you are caching"

---------------------------------------------------------

Pardon me Sir, but there is a Wild GeoCache in this area.

www.neurocache.com - NeuroNomad & Sublonde's Page

August 12, 2003

Definately not finding the cache is really a scare.

All the others play a role, too.

As long as you go by the guidelines, trespassing isn't an option. DON'T TRESPASS!

How can you hurt the environment if you pay attention what you are doing and NO BUSHWHACKING!

Cops? NAH!

Getting hurt or a rash? Accidents do happen, and I get ate up with poision ivy every time I use the weedeater.

Don't let those problems run you off.

24.7k · August 12, 2003

Willfully littering? Thats throwing a lighted cigarette out your window. That's leaving behind a used condom. That's a lot of things but not putting a box in the woods for people to visit.

As for trespassing, I have another threory. If there is a trail, its public or has been used so long by the public that even if it isn't it doesn't matter anymore. If it was important they would post a no tresspassing sign and I would honor it.

All in all, most of the reasons you listed as reasons to quit, are why I do this. Not to be a reckless lawbreaker living on the edge as I hide tupperware in the woods, but just for the adventure of it.

When people like you quit, you are not improving the hobby any. You are the one who would research out a cache it's location, and handicap factors and post a good cache to be found. Quitting just takes you out of the 'evolution' of geocaching.

Good luck.

38.2k · August 12, 2003

As far as caches being on private property, that dosn't concern me, because I haven't encountered much of that around here. Everything seems to be placed in public parks and forests. Caches placed on private property without permission should be reported to this website and they will be dealt with.

As far as environmental damage, I don't see that as an issue. A geocacher causes about as much environmental damage as a hiker, bird watcher, wildlife photographer, or hunter. And a lot less than campers, mountain bikers and ATVers.

I do take exception to your statement "We willfully litter and ignore private property". Maybe YOU willfully litter and ignore private property. I don't.

Like Divine, probably the closest thing to illegal I ever did while geocaching was breaking the speed limit on my way to the cache.

BTW, how can you be so certain a virtual cache is not on private property?

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on August 12, 2003 at 08:27 AM.]

2.6k · August 12, 2003

Even though most of the forests are privately owned, in Finland we have this thing called the public right of access, which gives all Finns access to forests regardless of who owns the forest. Anybody can go to a private forest to hike, pick mushrooms and berries without needing a special permit. That applies of course to geocaching too. So I can't say I'd worry about private properties too much.

I'm not worried about getting trouble by the cops either. I'm not breaking any laws, am I? Or does the question indicate the police is so oppressive that they are prone to cause trouble to every other regular geocacher? Ok granted, I could get a ticket for speeding, although I try to stay within the limits, but that's not particularly geocaching-related in my case.

I also don't worry too much about getting hurt. It's far more probable that I hurt myself when I'm commuting or in traffic in general. The clumsy oaf I am, I generally hurt myself hitting myself against furniture or kicking my toe to a doorstep. Naturally those things can happen also on trail, but again, it's not especially geocaching-related.

I was pondering between 'Not being able to find a cache' and 'Hurting the environment' and decided to vote the latter, since if I don't find a cache, I can always come back and search it again. But not long ago, on a trail - the clumsy oaf that I am - I tripped, almost fell on my face, and resulted kicking a fair portion of moss away from the rockface. Actually that happened twice at the same cache site. THAT pissed me off. THAT worries me. I tried to patch up what I could but of course the marks were visible after that.

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

3.1k · August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
When people like you quit, you are not improving the hobby any. You are the one who would research out a cache it's location, and handicap factors and post a good cache to be found. Quitting just takes you out of the 'evolution' of geocaching.

Those are exactly my sentimonies. (--Homer)

You're obviously a responsible person, NeuroNomad. I'd rather see you acting as an example of responsible caching -- by placing caches properly, and by calling off the hunt when your instincts tell you something is wrong -- than quitting because you see them as inherent to the game. Especially if you're finding these problems so prevalent in your area. I don't think that's the norm in most places.

As to the poll, my greatest fear of these is getting hurt. If you asked me which of these I fear on a day-to-day basis, caching or not, I'd say the same thing. This poll is a little alarmist, implying that geocaching and these five (well, four) issues are inseparable. That's just not true.

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

[This message was edited by Dinoprophet on August 12, 2003 at 08:21 AM.]

5.9k · August 12, 2003

quote:
I have always done everything I can to stay out of legal issues, and GeoCaching certainly can gray the line between what is legal and what is not.

What? Proper geocaching will break no law. The decision makers have been diligently working to prevent this.

quote:
…contemporary caches are often placed with little regard as to common sense. I know for I have placed some illogically myself.

Caches such as these are almost always self-correcting. The fact that you made the adult decision not to utilize common sense in your cache placements does not implicate me or anyone else.

quote:
We willfully litter and in many cases ignore private property.

I’m noticing a lot of “we” in your post. Since I’m not littering, trespassing, or damaging the environment, that leaves only you.

quote:
…another cache as located so that if I attempted to retrieve I would have had to set on/through someone’s landscape

Are you sure? Someone came in the forums a few months back complaining that a geocache required you to park along the freeway. WRONG, there was another way. You may have defaulted to taking the easiest way, which does not mean it was the best way.

quote:
…that I have had to skirt the line between private and public property.

And a fine line it is. Either you cross onto someone’s private property, or you do not. It’s like being “sort of pregnant”. If you stay on the public side of the line you will have no problem.

quote:
I have decided to quit regular GeoCaching….I have decided the hobby is not for me.

We can agree on that. You have personal issues you need to work out that are unrelated to geocaching. All that worrying is going to negatively affect your health.

You should do what you think best, sorry to see you go.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

9.5k · August 12, 2003

I'm like everybody else with your statement about wilfull littering. Mind you, I researched this carefully before putting my name on this site's list of members.

Littering is abandonment of trash or unwanted items never to be retrieved by the originator. Caches by nature of the game do not fall under this category.

And for the legality of what we do, if it was really littering, there would be no regulations in so many states allowing the sport to continue; and there wouldn't be other states considering allowing the sport in their park systems under their guidelines.

I really think you should have researched your statements before posting this poll. You're soundling like you are more dejected over the caches that are the exception to the guidelines.

As I see it...

As a concerned member discovering those on private property, a log noting the private property issue and a suggestion to archive the cache until the owner gains permission would have been the correct action. Do your active part to be a part of the solution instead of being apathetic and being part of the problem.

I watched a cache not more than 1 mile from me go from active to 3 finds to as many concerns that it was on private property without permission to being archived and removed within 1 or 2 months of activation. It didn't take much. Just the logging action of a couple of concerned members such as yourself.

Take it for what it's worth.

Cheers!

TL

9.5k · August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Divine:
Even though most of the forests are privately owned, in Finland we have this thing called http://www.metsakeskus.fi/pk/fine_jokamies_e.html, which gives all Finns access to forests regardless of who owns the forest. Anybody can go to a private forest to hike, pick mushrooms and berries without needing a special permit. That applies of course to geocaching too. So I can't say I'd worry about private properties too much.

I'm not worried about getting trouble by the cops either. I'm not breaking any laws, am I? Or does the question indicate the police is so oppressive that they are prone to cause trouble to every other regular geocacher? Ok granted, I _could_ get a ticket for speeding, although I try to stay within the limits, but that's not particularly geocaching-related in my case.

I also don't worry too much about getting hurt. It's far more probable that I hurt myself when I'm commuting or in traffic in general. The clumsy oaf I am, I generally hurt myself hitting myself against furniture or kicking my toe to a doorstep. Naturally those things can happen also on trail, but again, it's not especially geocaching-related.

I was pondering between 'Not being able to find a cache' and 'Hurting the environment' and decided to vote the latter, since if I don't find a cache, I can always come back and search it again. But not long ago, on a trail - the clumsy oaf that I am - I tripped, almost fell on my face, and resulted kicking a fair portion of moss away from the rockface. Actually that happened twice at the same cache site. THAT pissed me off. THAT worries me. I tried to patch up what I could but of course the marks were visible after that.

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

Just a little bit off topic:

I wouldn't say the cops are more oppressive here in the states. Without trying to pull politics in, that's a slant the overseas press gives because we are a giant glass house and it is easy to throw rocks at it. As with most countries, the exception to the rule gets the most press. It's more an issue of private property and whether or not there is an established public access. I have seen public access be argued and won when someone tries to close off an access where it has been allowed for years, but if it hasn't been allowed, then the owner can post fences and signs and keep you off their property. Usually it takes a court fight and it isn't really worth the effort unless it really is blocking a legitimate need. If it is a state or national park (and most forests are), there usually will be a public access that cannot be blocked off by private ownership.

If it is a privately donated park, a municipal or county park, the rules of usage become a bit more hazy and usually more restrictive because it is a smaller area and generally prone to more traffic. However, access should still not be an issue.

Neigbohood parks on the otherhand, can be privately owned and maintained by the home owners and do come under stricter guidelines and regulations towards who can and cannot have access. These are generally incorporated into the county regulations on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis. Gaining permission is very difficult and done by vote through the Home Owners' Association.

Cheers!

TL

August 12, 2003

I do not think you should stop geo-caching because of those concerns.

HOWEVER, I am happy you POINT OUT those concerns.

We should all have those concerns while GeoCaching. Think about them all the time to avoid problems to us and to everyone else.

We all have to be EXTRA CAREFULL of not damaging the environment or tresspassing.

-- Keep finding.

August 12, 2003

when people post an "i am quitting" it is usually a cry for help. if you read this whole thread.. you will find "we" are surrounded by more good people than bad. "we" try to do more good than bad. it is a shame you are deciding to leave.....

if your passion is that strong.. lobby for the good!!

robbie

A family that Geocaches together... eventually gets wet.

required reading

My first bible

Great Orienteering Site!

PERSONAL PROTECTIVE MEASURES AGAINST INSECTS AND OTHER ARTHROPODS OF MILITARY SIGNIFICANCE

2.3k · August 12, 2003

I think that geocachers do way more to help the environment than to cause it harm... The cache in-trash out program is a perfect example.

BTW its not illegal to put a cache on private property, if you have permission from the owner.

With proper research and planning, you can do loads of geocaches safely and without developing a rash.

Of course if you do develop a rash, then see your friendly neighborhood doctor. We love rashes!!

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by NeuroNomad & Sublonde:
GeoCaching certainly can gray the line between what is legal and what is not.

No it doesn't. The laws aren't impacted by geocaching...

quote:
To me the main issue goes back to the legality of what we do. We willfully litter and in many cases ignore private property.

I've never intentionally littered, don't know of an unintentional case, and regularly clean up litter.

But Geocaching, the activity you take issue with, doesn't encourage you to break any laws. That's YOUR responsibility! If there's a cache placed illegally, the hobby has a mechanism to deal with that (communication and archiving). So I'd say Geocaching promotes responsible, legal behaviour.

quote:
As the hobby continues to grow, I believe this will become more and more of an issue as the number of public areas that we can legally (which is also up for interpretation) grow smaller and smaller.

Actually, more likely, you'll see less frequent cache placements and fewer new ones.

quote:
...that being covert or suspicious in this day and age is not the wisest thing to do.

Again, that's a choice, I've never been "suspicious" when caching. Why would you? I learned about the hobby from someone in the act of caching!

quote:
This is why starting ASAP I am going to start archiving my caches

Now that hurts the hobby--or I infer they were illegally placed on private property.

[QOUTE]

Usually the worse thing doing a virtual cache is just looking like a goofy tourist.

You can look like a goofy tourist doing any type of cache. You can break the law doing virtuals and locationless too!

quote:
As to the poll question:

"What worries you the most when you are caching"

Being on private property by mistake.

Nope, that's what signs are for (in CT, w/o signs you aren't trespassing).

quote:
Getting in trouble by the cops.

Why break the law??? Just don't and there's no worry...

quote:
Hurting the environment.

Geocaching impact is far below other 'typical' activities like hiking, mt. biking, etc.

quote:
Not being able to find a cache.

How could that possibly worry someone? There's no downside!

quote:
Getting hurt, or getting a rash.

STAY OUT OF YOUR KITCHEN! (That's where most injuries occur.)

DON'T DRIVE WITHIN 10 MILES OF YOUR HOUSE! (That's where most accidents occur.)

If it's causing you so much stress, don't do it. But I believe you could have some fun by lightening up and turning your negative energy to good by placing GOOD, safe, publicly-accessible caches and alerting others to other caches.

Enjoy,

Randy

2.6k · August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TotemLake:
I wouldn't say the cops are more oppressive here in the states.

Neither would I. I don't have much reliable information on that topic. That's why I

asked if the original question indicated oppression

didn't make any comparison between countries (the comparison I made was about the public right of access -thing we have and most others don't)

used a winky

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

[This message was edited by Divine on August 12, 2003 at 10:17 AM.]

August 12, 2003

What worries me most while GeoCaching?

Ticks

Morgan

TeamTJ

August 12, 2003

The geocaching community would be better served if you remained in the fold, and if you find an improperly placed cache, contact the owner and help them find a more suitable location. Help the community, don't just point out what you see as wrong unless you have a recommendation on how to make it better.

9.5k · August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Divine:

quote:
Originally posted by TotemLake:
I wouldn't say the cops are more oppressive here in the states.

Neither would I. I don't have much reliable information on that topic. That's why I
+ asked _if_ the _original question_ indicated oppression

+ didn't make any comparison between countries (the comparison I made was about the public right of access -thing we have and most others don't)

+ used a winky

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

[This message was edited by Divine on August 12, 2003 at 10:17 AM.]

Yup - noted that
Noted that too and
Saw that.

..and I apologize for the misconstrued intent between us.

But you did give me an opening in conjunction with the original poll inquiry, so took advantage and license of it. It occured to me the area that "looked" like a park that was privately owned may have been one of those neighborhood parks that is privately owned.

Cheers!

TL

August 12, 2003

What scares me? Hmmmm, I would have to say arriving at the cache, bending over to open the cache, only to hear a voice from behind me say "Boy, you sure got a pretty mouth". So in all, I guess it could end up in the getting a rash response as well.

August 12, 2003

quote:
that being covert or suspicious in this day and age is not the wisest thing to do

Is there a law against being covert or sneaky?

This really bugs me. This is America. We can be sneaky if we want to. No law is being broken. If a cop stops you, tell them what you are doing. Has happened to me a couple times. Who knows, maybe the cop is a potential cacher. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

All this crud about homeland security has gotten some folks to call the cops whenever someone 'suspicious looking' walks by them. Lighten up people! I really doubt a terrorist is going to place a tupperware container full of McToys in the woods with the intent of blowing up a tree.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have never been lost. Been awful confused for a few days, but never lost!

N61.12.041 W149.43.734

August 12, 2003

Thank you for all the great replies. I am sorry this morning I was not in a good mood when I placed my topic. I am not going to quit GeoCaching, and many of the replies are very right by saying to quit is not the answer.

I am sorry about the litter bit, that was just my being in a bad mood. I know that we actually do many, many things to help the environment by cache-in trash-out type efforts.

I think in the end we it is just going to be a group effort to keep things in line. I just didn't take it well when I felt like I was getting wrote up by a landowner for trespassing, when I would never intentially do so.

On one other short reply, in regards to someone placing a cache that was located where I would have had to walk through the landscape, this was indeed the case. Trust me I looked at every possible angle and there was not a way to get to the cache without having to step on these people's shurbs.

In the end I have woke up and smelled the coffee. I appologize for being rash and not thinking my posting all the way through. In the end you guys are right, I am a cafeful and responsible person and would like to help the geocaching community continue to steer it's self towards general acceptance.

Though I haven't been in the sport for too, too long, I have done dozens of caches, and besides a small handful, the rest were perfectly legal and safe.

I appologize to the community for my rash statements and do appreciate the educated and concerned replies.

GeoCaching is a great sport and I for one will not give up on it.

Thanks again,

NeuroNomad

---------------------------------------------------------

Pardon me Sir, but there is a Wild GeoCache in this area.

www.neurocache.com - NeuroNomad & Sublonde's Page

August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by NeuroNomad & Sublonde:

GeoCaching is a great sport and I for one will not give up on it.

Would have hated to see you go, the geo-community would have taken a loss

Frank

August 12, 2003

Environemental activism is seldom very well thought out.

We do less harm then the bunnies and the bambis and the yogis & boo-boos do.

Most environmentalism is really poorly disguised anti human sentiment. We have the same right to be trapsing through the woods as all the rest of God's critters. I have seen too many people here climb on their environmentalist soapbox.

Plants grow back. If the plants were in some way endangered, they wouldn't be so prolific as to be in our way.

More trails means better access. I get sick of people who think every new trail is some sort of blight on the "environment". Trail have an aesthetic beauty of their own. I could take a picture of vegetation, and people would look at it and say "so what?". I could then cut a nice meandering trail, take a new photo, and have people look at it and say "what a lovely place".

The presence of man in the wilderness does not necessarily diminish it.

No one wants a barren landscape, but don't be ridiculous. I could bushwack with a fargin' weedeater, and by spring there'd be no sign of my passing.

If I move a rock two feet, so what? It's not like that rock was in some sacred spot (then again, environmentalism can resemble religious fanaticism).

Conservationism is where I stand. Stewardship over the wilderness, but not a total abscence.

Tread lightly, not "Do not enter".

1.6k · August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by NeuroNomad & Sublonde:

On one other short reply, in regards to someone placing a cache that was located where I would have had to walk through the landscape, this was indeed the case. Trust me I looked at every possible angle and there was not a way to get to the cache without having to step on these people's shurbs.

I haven't run into too many like that, but when I do, I usually just skip the cache and keep on going as the hassle is not worth it. Geocaching is a game we do for recreation. One thing you might do is post a log on the cache site or email the owner to let them know this is the case. The cache may have been moved to that location by others and need to be replaced.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nebraskache/

August 12, 2003

If it's private property, and the owner hasn't given permission, then I wouldn't go through their plants.

If the owner gave permission, and the only way in is over plants, I would assume the owner saw it as an alternative to buying a goat to keep down the underbrush (BTW, if a couple of dozen of y'all would come walk around in the brush on my property... I'd grill up some burgers for you!)

But, what worries me is getting seperated from my kids and having them fall into the wrong hands, or being unable to find them in the woods. We watch them pretty closely, but no matter how vigilant you are, they can still wander off while chasing a rabbit or squirrel (or, in my kids case, slugs... they are fascinated with them, and will fall behind if we aren't paying close attention).

The other one is... getting all disoriented in the wilderness and dpending a night out there. Not a problem if I'm alone, but with the kids it presents a problem. I didn't think to mark a waypoint at the car last night... we got turned around right around dusk, which made me a bit tense.

I hope that someday we will be able to put away

our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people.

5.9k · August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:
Environemental activism is seldom very well thought out.

We do less harm then the bunnies and the bambis and the yogis & boo-boos do.

Most environmentalism is really poorly disguised anti human sentiment. We have the same right to be trapsing through the woods as all the rest of God's critters. I have seen too many people here climb on their environmentalist soapbox.

Plants grow back. If the plants were in some way endangered, they wouldn't be so prolific as to be in our way.

More trails means better access. I get sick of people who think every new trail is some sort of blight on the "environment". Trail have an aesthetic beauty of their own. I could take a picture of vegetation, and people would look at it and say "so what?". I could then cut a nice meandering trail, take a new photo, and have people look at it and say "what a lovely place".

The presence of man in the wilderness does not necessarily diminish it.

No one wants a barren landscape, but don't be ridiculous. I could bushwack with a fargin' weedeater, and by spring there'd be no sign of my passing.

If I move a rock two feet, so what? It's not like that rock was in some sacred spot (then again, environmentalism can resemble religious fanaticism).

Conservationism is where I stand. Stewardship over the wilderness, but not a total abscence.

Tread lightly, not "Do not enter".

Well said. We just happen to live in the best area of the country.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:
Environemental activism is seldom very well thought out.

We do less harm then the bunnies and the bambis and the yogis & boo-boos do.

Most environmentalism is really poorly disguised anti human sentiment. We have the same right to be trapsing through the woods as all the rest of God's critters. I have seen too many people here climb on their environmentalist soapbox.

Plants grow back. If the plants were in some way endangered, they wouldn't be so prolific as to be in our way.

More trails means better access. I get sick of people who think every new trail is some sort of blight on the "environment". Trail have an aesthetic beauty of their own. I could take a picture of vegetation, and people would look at it and say "so what?". I could then cut a nice meandering trail, take a new photo, and have people look at it and say "what a lovely place".

The presence of man in the wilderness does not necessarily diminish it.

No one wants a barren landscape, but don't be ridiculous. I could bushwack with a fargin' weedeater, and by spring there'd be no sign of my passing.

If I move a rock two feet, so what? It's not like that rock was in some sacred spot (then again, environmentalism can resemble religious fanaticism).

Conservationism is where I stand. Stewardship over the wilderness, but not a total abscence.

Tread lightly, not "Do not enter".

Well said. We just happen to live in the best area of the country.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

Besides the Blue Ridge Mountains around Asheville, NC, of course. But I'm sure you intended to note that exception!

I agree with Mark 42. I just went to a cache located in a deeply wooded park that had been turned into an 18 hole frisbee golf course. It's one of those woods where it's very quiet and dark and cool and there is almost no undergrowth at all. I'm used to the woods being fairly difficult to trapse through because of briars and brush. In this case, there were trails everywhere, and it was great because it was still beautiful and I felt free to step off the many paths to get a closer look at whatever. I'm sure that if the park was closed, there would be no evidence of most of the trails in a couple of years.

Unless people are encouraged to get dirty in the forests, etc., they will be less likely to appreciate and conserve wilderness areas.

Only time I disagree with bushwacking is in posted protected areas where there really are endangered or sensitive plants.

Neuronomad, I have been having similar concerns about private property, plastic boxes in the woods, looking too sneaky... I'm glad you started this thread because it gave me a chance to reassure myself that I am a part of a hobby/sport with all of these good people who posted here, and together, we can keep geocaching growing in the right direction.

August 12, 2003

MOSQUITO!!!!!!!!!!!

and

POISON IVY!!!!!!!!!

arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrGGGGH!

They say this universe is bound to blow,

I say we crank up the Calypso Control!

~Jimmy Buffett

~Someday I Will~

August 12, 2003

What about none of the above? The only thing that worries me while geocaching is finding a legal, safe, and cache accessible place to park.

For me, part of the appeal of geocaching is walking into the unknown. If I ever feel that I will have to break the law to find a cache, I simply pass on it and inform the cache owner of my concerns.

It's all about using your own common sense.

--CoronaKid

August 12, 2003

You surprised me!

I figured I'd probably raise hackles with what I said, but I felt a need to say what I believe to be the truth.

I didn't think there were a lot of people who would say they agree with me, if nothing else just because they don't want to get flamed or something like that (I'm having trouble explaining what I mean here).

I saw a couple of other threads about "what to do when others are around".

The way I see it is like this:

I'm not ashamed, nor do I need to hide my activity. If someone sees me geocaching, and they sak, I'll just do my best to explain the game to them, and tell them where the website is in case they want to give it a try. I try to let them know that you can do it w/o a GPS, if you choose caches that have goos descriptions and hints to find the location with just a map & compass... and that a GPS (older technology one) can be had for around $50 on eBay.

I try to stay out of direct view when I am opening the cache and signing the logbook, but I try not to look like I don't want to be seen.

I just pick a nice comfortable flat spot, and if it happens to be behind a tree, where people on the trail can't see me, well... maybe that's just "coincidence?".

I don't want people to see me find the cache, and hide it, because if they don't get to ask me about what I'm doing, they may come back later to investigate, and w/o someone to inform them it could lead to misunderstandings (like they might think I'm hiding something illegal).

But most people are pretty decent, and if they know what's going on, and are on some level included, they will respect the gamesmanship of it, even if it isn't their cup of tea.

I hope that someday we will be able to put away

our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people.

August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:
I have seen too many people here climb on their environmentalist soapbox.

Boy, we're reading totally different threads. I usually see just the opposite around here.

Or perhaps we all tend to give different weight to different posts, and so see greater or lesser numbers and types of 'soapboxes'.

Ron/yumitori

---

Remember what the dormouse said...

August 12, 2003

It's admittedly subtle, but I often have seen people "mention" feeling bad about going over vegetation... and (to me) there is an undercurrent of "so should you".

It's not one of my harder buttons to press though, so I'll whle heartedly admit that I react stronger than most to subtle environmentalist hints.

And I don't need any sort of stepladder or handhold to get on my soapbox... I'll jump right up there at a moments notice, sometimes w/o even realizing I've done it!

Yeah, wind me up & watch me go... I don't even mind if some find it entertaining. I guess for me, just being able to make the attempt to get people to think about what they say (& the belief that prompts them to say it) is therapeutic somehow.

We now return you to your regular programming...

I do get concerned about violating private property. I really like the way Alabama approaches it... if there are no posted signs which prohibit a person from hiking, hunting, or otherwise trespassing, then the person is within the law while doing so. If you post signs around your property prohibitting activities, generally people honor those signs.

Recently I did a cache on property that said "No trespassing"... but there are trails through it, and people hike & ride horse and bicyles there all the time. I suspect it is meant to apply to motor vehicles, or maybe the owner is trying to avoid liability if someone should trip over a tree root and get hurt.

(I'm restraining myself... the soapbox is beckoning me again...)

I hope that someday we will be able to put away

our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people.

[This message was edited by Mark 42 on August 12, 2003 at 12:30 PM.]

5.9k · August 12, 2003

This is an example of me on my soapbox.

MtnLion wrote:

quote:
Unless people are encouraged to get dirty in the forests, etc., they will be less likely to appreciate and conserve wilderness areas.

Perhaps the most brilliant observation so far. I will be using that in the future. Nobody cares about what they don't see or use. I love the forests here in WA. They are the best there is. (I've lived in the bug/creepycrawly south before)

Tell Mr. Ranger, if nobody uses the forests you administer, you'll need to look for a job at the Walmart.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

38.2k · August 12, 2003

quote:
Recently I did a cache on property that said "No trespassing"... but there are trails through it, and people hike & ride horse and bicyles there all the time.

You gotta be careful in areas like this. These trails are often allowed via an easement negotiated with the landowner. Usually the agreement will limit the use of the trail to specific activities, such as hiking. Most will stipulate that all users stay on the trail.

Placing a cache in such an area can jeopardize access for everybody.

quote:
Unless people are encouraged to get dirty in the forests, etc., they will be less likely to appreciate and conserve wilderness areas.

This has been an argument I've used for years when debating backcountry access, trail building, etc... with environmental extremists.

If nobody knows about a place, there won't be anybody to give a crap when the bulldozers come in.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

August 12, 2003

Lyme.

____________________________

- Team Og Rof A Klaw

All who wander are not lost.

1.6k · August 12, 2003

I don't worry about anything when I am caching... I go caching to get away from worrying.

If I can't find a cache I don't worry about it... I go to the next one. If I get to a cache that is on private property, I don't worry about it... I go to the next one. If I get to the area of a cache and I don't feel comfortable, I don't worry... I go to the next one. If I get injured or a rash, I don't worry... I treat it and go find the next one.

I never try to look suspicious or covert, I always try to look like I own the place and go about what I am doing. Sometimes I am successful and sometimes not. I have been visited a few times by law enforcement while caching. All I do is explain geocaching and quite often they are quite interested. I don't worry. I am not doing anything illegal or immoral. I am out enjoying one of the most wholesome hobbies/sports that there is. Don't worry... Enjoy yourself.

4.7k · August 12, 2003

what worries me most is that i will come back much, much later than two hours overdue for my next engagement, which is pretty much what people expect from me when i'm out caching.

i consistently do not know how long it takes to drive from my last cache of the day to my destination, which is almost never home, because i have to time left to go there and change.

and yes, i DO keep clean clothes and a showerbag in the car.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

August 12, 2003

Check out http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=ce260da2-dfd0-43f2-adb1-cb85ae9c5c9b

and see the July 14 log, Cops do come BUT they end up being cachers in the end.

August 12, 2003

What do I worry about when I go out? The errors I may make. Example, I found a cache in Kansas a few months ago and took a tumble trying to get to it. I made the error and I learned from it. Did I quit? He-- no I folded some TP soaked it with some betadine solution slaped it on the largest scrape and made a second error by tapeing it to my leg.

Went to 5 more caches after that.

I dont know the answers to all your questions but I do know that Geocaching promotes cleaning up the enviroment by cleaning up sights.

Sure there are those that do not follow the rules and you are going to find this to be true no matter what you do.

Instide of quiting why not become a watch dog in your own area and help make it a better place to geocache? To me "quiting" is not a part of the solution its a part of the problem.

Last If you are going to stop, I will include my address in a email to you so you can send me your GPS, since you wont have any use for it now.

Thought for you in leaving. Are you going to make it better for all or become a part of the problem??

Good luck,

Rick

3k · August 12, 2003

Ticks, mosquitoes, poison ivy, snakes, and brown recluse spiders. And people who include me in their WE LITTER posts!!! You should see how much garbage I have carried out! I wouldn't tresspass and we don't have any caches yet that I've found, that are on private property without permission. If I did find one placed on private property I would walk away, contact the cache hider, ask if it is placed with permission, if not noted so on the cache page, and if I got no response I would bring it to the admins attention. Two weeks is long enough to wait for a response, in my opinion to report the wrongly placed cache.

Cache you later,

Planet

So many caches, so little time.

3.8k · August 12, 2003

Snakes.

that's it.

~robert

Notice: Driver carries less than $20 cache.

August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:
It's admittedly subtle, but I often have seen people "mention" feeling bad about going over vegetation... and (to me) there is an undercurrent of "so should you".

Heh. Whereas I get to read comments like 'tree-huggers' and 'environmental extremists' (what, there's no environmental moderates?), in their many disparaging incarnations.

If we spent a little less time making those who disagree with us into villians, and try harder to seek common ground with them, we might actually make progress.

But then progress isn't really the point of most forums...

Ron/yumitori, touchie-feelie, tree-hugging environmental extre..., uh, moderate...