Poll: Trash or Treasure?

May 11, 2003

One cacher's trash is another cacher's treasure. Here is a poll to fuel the debate. Which of these items (all of which I have found at least once) does not belong in a cache?

1. Cool-looking seedpod (perishable)

2. Happy Meal toy

3. Religious tract

Discuss.

May 11, 2003

Oops, maybe I should clarify. If you vote "all of the above" that means none of the three items belongs in a cache. If you vote "none of the above" that means all the items are OK. So far we've got one of each.

38.2k · May 11, 2003

Depends. A new happy meal toy, in its wrapper is a fine cache item. A broken, dirty or otherwise obviously used one one is garbage.

A cool looking seed pod from plant that is not in the area could be a treasure. A seed pod from the tree that the cache is hidden under, or one that was easily found on the way in would be trash.

Religious tracts? That can be trash, or garbage depending on your views of the religion.

So my vote goes to "it depends". Oops, that's not a choice.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

1.4k · May 11, 2003

I wrote all of the above because I don't have kids and thus no need for McToys, something you pick-up off the ground isn't really tradeable for anything and religious items have their place and I don't think a cache is that place.

But to each their own as long as you don't trade down. And with the seed pod, if you took anything besides a dirty McToy, I don't see how you couldn't be trading down.

---Real men cache in shorts.

May 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

A cool looking seed pod from plant that is not in the area could be a treasure. A seed pod from the tree that the cache is hidden under, or one that was easily found on the way in would be trash.

A seedpod from a Non-native plant could spell trouble for an area. This (as far as I would be concerned) is a NO NO.

Give me a Tall ship, and a Star to steer her bye...

The White Fleet....

24.7k · May 11, 2003

After a hard day of trading down caches I find that the pocket lint I attempt to trade down with is actually a step up for most caches. Still each and every item you listed has it's place, though I'd not even trade my pocket lint for them.

Some people collect McToys. Sad but true. So that's ok in it's package (and maybe even in 'new condition'.

The seedpod...hopefully that's a signature item.

Same with the religious tract. It should be a signature item not a 'trade' item.

Alas with the state of caches these days Often I come home with pocket full of lint and have no choice but to throw it away.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

May 11, 2003

McToys......new and in the wrapper are fine for the little ones......

Seed Pod.....that could be big trouble if it's not indigenous to the area.....I'd stay away from that...but some are ok...so it depends.

Tracts....I have no problem with people leaving them. They have their freedoms as do everyone. If I want it...I take it.....if I don't...I leave it. Sometimes, I even leave one of mine too. I don't consider them trade items though.

If God is your co-pilot, it's time to change seats!!!

38.2k · May 11, 2003

quote:
A seedpod from a Non-native plant could spell trouble for an area. This (as far as I would be concerned) is a NO NO.

I don't see an issue with a unusal seed pod that is left in a box and then removed. Most of the time it wouldn't be able to survive in the area anyway. You're more likely to carry something dangerous in on your shoes. BTW, I've spent much of my life removing invasive, non-native plants from certain environments, so it's an issue I'm

familiar with.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

May 11, 2003

I always try to trade up, so even if I don't take anything I leave something to sweeten the pot. But I realize that what I would choose isn't always what others would choose. For example: one of my favorite found items so far has been a little packet of tissues from Indonesia. Practical and cute, and non-cluttering. I'd rather have that than a McToy or a cheap plush toy any day. But a lot of cachers would disagree with me. I also like to leave half-pint bottles of water and travel size sunscreens. Again, this is what I would most like to find, but not everybody's preference. Sometimes if I'm removing something that obviously does not belong (a food product, a golf ball, a cheap bit of silvery plastic with no recognizable shape) I might not count that as taking anything. I just figure it's a public service and choose something else as my trade item.

Personally I see no reason to clutter up a cache with junk. If you don't have anything to trade, just TNLN. As long as you sign the logbook, it counts as a find as far as I'm concerned.

[This message was edited by Sugar Kane on May 12, 2003 at 09:22 AM.]

May 11, 2003

quote:
I don't see an issue with a unusal seed pod that is left in a box and then removed. Most of the time it wouldn't be able to survive in the area anyway

I beg to differ--lots of lakes here in Minnesota are infested with non-native milfoil. My lawn also seems to do okay, and most lawns here are planted with non-native grass. I don't think our woodlands will ever be infested with kudzu like the deep south, but who knows?

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--Calvin

9.4k · May 11, 2003

While McToys have long been the butt of jokes around here, I cache with my kids and they really enjoy finding them in caches. I very rarely take anything for myself. The kids bring along some trade items and decide what they want in exchange.

Religious tracts are nothing more than cache spam to us. We don't mind if there is a brochure about the park or nearby historic site. Ads for churches, car lots, and work-from-home scams belong in the trash can we passed on the way in.

May 11, 2003

For me the toughest call is the seedpod. This particular one looked really cool. I think it was local to the area although not to the immediate surroundings. I would never take something like that because I don't have room for a seedpod collection, but someone else might enjoy it. I would worry more about the thing disintegrating inside the cache than about disrupting the local ecology - as BrianSnat says, you probably do more damage with what you carry on your shoes.

3.1k · May 12, 2003

It used to be that "broken McToys" were the bane of geocaching. That's been abbreviated to just "McToys", even though there is absolutely nothing wrong with an intact McToy. They're as good as, or better than, any dollar store toy you might stock up on.

The seed pod...well, is it something I could have picked up myself on the walk in?

Religious tracts have been hashed out in the forums many times. They are usually ruled to be solicitation and thus considered bad cache items by most. Religious items -- bibles, crosses, dreamcatchers, prayer flags -- are fine.

Note that the poll asks what does not belong in a cache, not what you want to find.

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

May 12, 2003

I don't know what the beef with the McToys is, I'd rather find a gold doubloon, but then I would be hard pressed to trade up.

As for the seed pod, I agree with the mentality, you will track worse on your shoes.

The religious tract; some people might consider it to be a miracle that they found something that could help them with an issue in their life. I don't take them, but then again, some caches I don't take anyhting else either. I wouldn't appreciate someone stocking their cache with nothing but religious pamphlets, nor would I want to see one requesting donations.

If it has a genuinely encouraging or helpful message tho, and was left freely, not as a trade, I'm under no obligation to read it, so whats it hurt?

Two roads diverged in the woods and I,

I took the one less traveled,

and that is how I found the cache.

May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dinoprophet:

Note that the poll asks what _does not_ belong in a cache, not what you want to find.

I think we pretty much agree on items that don't belong in caches: explosives, food, maybe knives. What I really meant is, where do you draw the line - what items are just too junky to leave in a cache?

As a newbie to this forum I think I'm confused about trading up vs. trading down. I thought trading up meant you got rid of junk and took something good - kind of like movin' on up - but the way people are using it on here I'm not sure. Which is it?

May 12, 2003

I would think it would be obvious; if you were just about to throw something in the trash because YOU don't want it, and would be embarrased to hand it to someone and say "I thought maybe you would like this", then it doesn't belong in a cache.

Don't hide behind anonimity to pawn off junk.

Two roads diverged in the woods and I,

I took the one less traveled,

and that is how I found the cache.

3.1k · May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sugar Kane:
As a newbie to this forum I think I'm confused about trading up vs. trading down. I thought trading up meant you got rid of junk and took something good - kind of like movin' on up - but the way people are using it on here I'm not sure. Which is it?

Around here "trade up" means to leave something equal or better than what you took -- the proper thing to do. It was recently discussed whether this is the correct terminology, but it had already become canon by then.

Edit: Added a markwell

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dinoprophet:
Around here "trade up" means to leave something equal or better than what you took -- the proper thing to do. It was recently discussed whether this is the correct terminology, but it had already become canon by then.

Got it, thanks.

May 12, 2003

I voted against the seed with the other two being OK. My concern was that the pod might just disintegrate, as someone mentioned previously, and there would be nothing but dust (but I guess maybe Renegade Knight could trade some of his lint for the dust). I was assuming a NEW McToy. And, unfortunately, I didn't read the TRACT part closely enough . I have no problem with leaving a tract, but many would consider this solicitation. A religious OBJECT I would imagine would get no argument from anyone. BTW, golf balls seem to be item non grata. However, many people collect golf balls and might be happy to find a DIFFERENT one (with a company logo) to add to a collection. Ane from reading the above posts, I too am a little confused about the terms "trading up" and "trading down". I always interpreted trading up as my leaving something better (IMHO) than what I left, and trading down as leaving (again IMHO) junk and taking something better. What is the proper interpretation?

Catcher24

"You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton

May 12, 2003

Dinoprophet - Thanks for the clarification - you posted while I was typing. So my interpretation is right - wow, a first!

Catcher24

"You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton

1.6k · May 12, 2003

As this is an old issue and has been discussed to death without resolution, I will be brief.

A seed pod that doesn't belong in your area is a BAD thing as it may unleash an invasive plant that damages the ecosystem. A religious tract is like an opinion (and we all know what opinions are like...). They all smell except for your own.

Cache according to the golden rule:

If you wouldn't want to hike for two miles in 100 degree heat, to find that item, don't use it for a cache item yourself. Simple, easy, direct.

If the Golden Rule is too religious for you, then here is a visual rule: Ammo Cans and Garbage cans are both made out of metal. This is the only similarity. Cache containers are for cache items and garbage cans are for garbage. You wouldn't put a good cache item in the trash, and you shouldn't put trash in a good cache.

Let's see, I have my fire-retardant keyboard and monitor, therefore I am ready to read the flames, I mean messages in the forum.

38.2k · May 12, 2003

quote:
at I really meant is, where do you draw the line - what items are just too junky to leave in a cache?

Here is a partial list of stuff I've found in my caches and seen in others that I would consider to be junk:

Broken, dirty or otherwise heavily used toys, beer bottle caps, candy wrappers, sticks of gum, used metrocard, a game token for an arcade that's been out of business for 5 years, a dirty diaper cover, a cigarette, a dirty comb missing some teeth, a torn & grease stained pair of work gloves, a folded, triangular paper "football", acorns (in an oak forest), pine cones (in a pine forest), rocks, a rusted flashlight, AOL CD's, keys (to who knows what), expired coupons, a used ski lift ticket, ticket stubs from a minor league baseball game, free drink tokens for some bar 2,000 miles away, a paper clip (a box OK, but 1?), a pad of Post-It notes with a few sheets left, an unwrapped Band-Aid, a 9.6 kbs modem, a dog's chew toy complete with teeth marks and dead batteries.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on May 12, 2003 at 10:10 AM.]

May 12, 2003

Has anybody else seen the round little quarter-size rounds of cardboard with pictures printed on them? I've left them alone on the off-chance that they are something collectible, but to the uninformed eye they look like trash.

24.7k · May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
A game token for an arcade that's been out of business for 5 years...free drink tokens for some bar 2,000 miles away...

Trash, Really? I wish I was with you when you found those tokens. That's what I like to trade for, heck I'd even leave something other than pocket lint for that!

Though I'm in full agreement on most of that list. Besides that seed pod could probably grow in the dirty diaper and I don't want to be the one to have to transplant it. Even if it's just to the trash.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

4.7k · May 12, 2003

whatever it is, i want it to be clean and unbrokes, in a usable condition. nothing soggy, nothing dirty. if it looks like cheap garbage to you, it's not good enough for a cache. we just have to rely on you to be honest in your trades. sometimes i see things in caches that make me wonder what the person thought made it a worthwhile item. sometimes when i have the second look i understand.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
Cache according to the golden rule:

If you wouldn't want to hike for two miles in 100 degree heat, to find that item, don't use it for a cache item yourself. Simple, easy, direct.

Does anybody really hike for two miles in 100 degree heat for any type of trinket? I think the issue should be wether or not the cache is placed in an area that makes the trek in worthwhile. Lets face it, your never going to find anything near priceless in a cache.

Happy Halloween

May 12, 2003

Did one 1.78 miles in 90 degree heat last week. Great hike; not too long, not too short, and some really creepy bugs along the way! Oh yeah, and a few inmates on the trail on the hike back . . . but at least the were cleaning some of the trash up!

Edit: I completely forgot to say what I had orignally started writing for. Even if there is trashy stuff in the cache, I still got to find a new place I didn't know about and have a very nice hike. So it was worth it to me!

May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by wfosborn:
Even if there is trashy stuff in the cache, I still got to find a new place I didn't know about and have a very nice hike. So it was worth it to me!

I agree. I don't cache for the loot, just for the fun of hunting. But knowing that some people do go specifically for the loot, it makes me mad the way cache contents deteriorate steadily the longer the cache is out there because it hurts the game.

1.6k · May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woof!:

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
Cache according to the golden rule:

If you wouldn't want to hike for two miles in 100 degree heat, to find that item, don't use it for a cache item yourself. Simple, easy, direct.

Does anybody really hike for two miles in 100 degree heat for any type of trinket? I think the issue should be wether or not the cache is placed in an area that makes the trek in worthwhile. Lets face it, your never going to find anything near priceless in a cache.

Happy Halloween

The point is that one should think of others before "defecaching" into someone else's geocache. Part of the issue of trade items is that people who set these up go to the expense and trouble of setting them up so that other people (many, or most, of whom they do not know, and will never meet) can have some fun. Be respectful of other cachers and those who set up the caches.

Leave something you would want to find. However, if you want broken toys or used up xerox cards, then geocaching isn't for you. I am sure that there are dumpsters near you, put away your GPS and go dumpster diving, or rifle through your neighbors' garbage.

All of us should think about what we leave behind.

Let's see, I have my fire-retardant keyboard and monitor, therefore I am ready to read the flames, I mean messages in the forum.

9.4k · May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sugar Kane:
Has anybody else seen the round little quarter-size rounds of cardboard with pictures printed on them? I've left them alone on the off-chance that they are something collectible, but to the uninformed eye they look like trash.

Those are called 'Pogs'

1.4k · May 12, 2003

I have found AND TRADED FOR all of the items you mention as trash. My kids LOVE new McToys. Religious tracts can be very interesting reading. We actually took a strange seedpod from a cache, took it home and planted it to see what would come up (nothing grew )

If you don't like any of those things, then don't trade for them.

May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:
Those are called 'Pogs'

So THAT'S what pogs are. Do people still collect those?

1.6k · May 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

If you don't like any of those things, then don't trade for them.

When presented with a cache of items that are cool and one used McToy, its easy to "not trade" for them, when the entire cache contents have an sum value of less than a quarter, its hard to get excited about even leaving a log entry.

The thing is that any given cache with a difficulty rating of less than 4/4 is possibly someone's first cache. If you recall your first, there wasn't a stash of Krugerands in the box, but if yours was like mine, there was a mix of things some of which were actually worth trading for. The last cache I found would be a natural first cache and was full of NOTHING but garbage and 40 cents. You can bet this is the last cache some new person would get his kid to go to if thats all there is in the cache.

Let's see, I have my fire-retardant keyboard and monitor, therefore I am ready to read the flames, I mean messages in the forum.

Poll: Trash or Treasure?

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