Well, it happened to me... DWG (Driving While Geocaching)

February 12, 2003

This happened this AM while I was on my way to log 'There's a MONSTER at the End of This Cache!!!!!' in North Richland Hills, TX.

I was staying in Dallas and got up at 5:30 to hit this one before a 9:00 meeting. I was planning on

taking a shower when I returned which I'm sure contributed to the issue. After locating the cache site a police officer pulled me over. He asked what I was doing. I explained I was geocaching and this just seemed to agitate him. He said he did not own a computer and didn't have any idea what I was talking about. He took my drivers license and had me remain in my car for 20 minutes while he did something in his car. He returned and again started to ask questions. What was my adress, phone #, etc.? Why was I in Texas, who do I work for? At this point I was ticked-off. I told the officer that he was harressing me and that I needed the name and contact # of his supervisor. He immediately changed his tune and apologized if he was offending me. He said He was just trying to do his job. I took his card and he wrote the name of his Sargent on it. At this point, there was no way I was going to let this person intimidate me. I parked my car, grabbed my caching bag and headed off to do the cache. The officer sat in his car and watched me as I headed off to the first clue. After finishing the cache and starting to head back to Dallas, I called the Sargent and relayed the story to him. He was very professional. My main point to him was I can accept being pulled over, it was after he checked my license and it came back clean as a whistle that he continued to ask questions. I did get the departments fax number and told the Sargent that I was going to fax over some information regarding geocaching so he can mention it in his next staff meeting to avoid future incidents like mine.

20.7k · February 12, 2003

They don't cotton to Yankees coming to Texas to play their games with their fancy gizmos.

February 12, 2003

I'm from SC and GA and speak with a thick southern accent.

[This message was edited by Ramblin' Wreck on February 12, 2003 at 09:22 AM.]

February 12, 2003

Were you wearing the same Ski Mask as in the picture on your profile?

February 12, 2003

not to prolong this thread but i am curious and have a few statement. first, where were you parked. was it legal, side of road? did someone report your activity to them as suspicious?

i believe the officer had every reason to continue his questioning. at that point he had mere suspicion that you were up to something no good. at that point, he has cause to question. if your mad that your man hood was ruffled because he "harrased" you, move past that and think of this. if this was in your neighborhood, you would want the cops to be just as diligent in their work.

it was nice to fax some stuff to the dept about geocaching, not everyone understands what we are doing with our gps walking around in circles and going to weird places looking around.

SR and dboggny.

[This message was edited by SR & dboggny on February 12, 2003 at 09:49 AM.]

1.4k · February 12, 2003

If you saw me wandering around in your neighborhood, you would really want the police to check me out. Think about it.

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

20.7k · February 12, 2003

Actually, you posted that he pulled you over. Did the officer have cause to pull you over. If not, I can see your beef. Even if there was, once he ran your license and asked the prelim questions, he should write the ticket or move on.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

38.2k · February 12, 2003

quote:
i believe the officer had every reason to continue his questioning.

I disagree. If RW was not guilty of breaking any law and his DL, registration, etc... all checked out that should have been the end of it. It's none of the cop's business who he works for, what he's doing in Texas and what his phone number is.

The cop thought the guy was suspicious, got an explanation from the guy as to what was going on, ran his license and found nothing. At that point he should have apoligized for stopping him and sent him on his way with a "have a nice day".

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

February 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

quote:
i believe the officer had every reason to continue his questioning.

I disagree. If RW was not guilty of breaking any law and his DL, registration, etc... all checked out that should have been the end of it. It's none of the cop's business who he works for, what he's doing in Texas and what his phone number is.

he may have been trying to be sure that the id was not stolen or counterfit. i have asked people to verify info on their documents before... getting quick sure and correct answers (and all combinations of that) is one indication that the person really is who they say they are. just because someone presents you with a photo document doesnt per se indicate that the document is legit.

SR and dboggny.

February 12, 2003

Where in my post did I state my manhood was ruffled? I am a citizen in good standing, I do not have to justify where and how I spend my time if I do not violate any laws.

My beef with the officer was not pulling me over, or asking me questions, or telling me my story was questionable. I showed him my GPS with the cache coords on it, I gave him the web address www.geocaching.com, I was VERY polite. When he ran my license and didn't write me a ticket (he said that he pulled me over because I did not stop at an intersection with the front end of my vehicle behind the crossing line)that is when he should stop detaining me (remember, this incident lasted over 20 minutes) and let me on my way.

February 12, 2003

By all descriptions you handled the situation in a rational manner. Sometimes even the most innocent activity can be viewed as suspect. I have given up doing caches near children's playgrounds unless my wife and/or my grandson is along. While doing a cache in a residential area near Fort Hood, I also attracted unwarranted attention. As it turned out, there had been a series of break-ins in the area.

Now, I always carry the print-out for the cache I am seeking and a couple of What is Geocaching cards to give to the curious neighbors and the occasional police officer.

By the way, special kudos for providing Geocaching materials to the department. I for one would not want the job of stopping suspicous vehicles, alone, in the dark in a remote area. Hopefully, geocaching made some friends, not adversaries.

Also I was only joking about your picture on your profile.

Hiemdahl

February 12, 2003

Sorry for your bad experience. I am not a native Texan, but in my 20+ years here, I have usually found people to be very friendly and reasonable. I am glad you found the cache (and the Texas geocoin!!) and I hope the rest of your stay here goes better.

Alchemist2000

[This message was edited by alchemist2000 on February 12, 2003 at 02:08 PM.]

5.9k · February 12, 2003

I used to commute between Charleston SC and Tampa by way of a “drug corridor” through central FL. There’s a town along 301 that annexed a 100 yard wide, mile long strip of land so that they could park a cop out there to write tickets. That was generating about 80% of the town budget! I had been hit in the rear of my Courier truck while in Tampa, and the bumper was facing straight down. The cop at the scene told me to put the (SC) plate in the rear window so it would be visible. While on 301, I was pulled over by the town cop, he ran my plates and wasted a bunch of my time. Then he told me he pulled me over because my plate was in the rear window. I showed him the bumper and asked if he’d like me to put the plate back there, he said no. Then much hemming and hawing. So we’re standing behind my truck and he says, “You’re free to go.” Just as I step away, he says, “One moment please, would you mind if I looked through your truck?” That’s the trick you see, they ask if you mind. That’s a loaded question.

The correct answer is, “No, I don’t mind but I don’t give my consent.” They cannot search w/o probable cause and have to let you go.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

February 12, 2003

OK, so I might be slighly biased towards the NRHPD. I've lived in NRH for over 15 years.

I've met many of the city's finest, both on a professional and personal level. They've helped organize and teach our neighborhood crime watch programs and have always responded in an extremely professional manner. I've seen them in action capturing a burgler red-handed coming out of my neighbors house. (Stupid kid actually had socks on his hands coming out the front door carrying a pillow case full of my neighbors stuff...)

Many times, they've accommpanied the Firemen and Paramedics on those many times I've had to call 911 (my spouse has many health issues). One time, I was intently questioned in my own home about my spouses medicines. They made it clear that they are required to respond if the 911 system records more than a certain number of medical-related calls made in a relatively short period of time (i.e., weeks). Unfortunately, a few years ago that happened to have occurred.

I've talked with a couple of officers over dinner (at Tucker's Catfish Haven) about their GPS/map use, about geocaching, and about their infrared "scope" mounted on their Suburbans. Most officers are technically savvy. They nearly have to be to use the equipment in their squad cars.

Sorry for ranting, but in my actual experience the North Richland Hills police department have earned the phrase "the city's finest". I'm glad they stop and ask questions. Like a previous responder stated, that's exactly what I'd want the police in my neighborhood to be doing. Granted, most people are impatient when they are confronted with something they do not care about or know nothing about. Policemen are a respectable part to be included in the group "people".

paul_stratton

And to think that I once had trouble finding my own "@@@" with both hands..

[This message was edited by paul_stratton on February 12, 2003 at 11:12 AM.]

February 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
“One moment please, would you mind if I looked through your truck?” That’s the trick you see, they ask if you __mind__. That’s a loaded question.

The correct answer is, “No, I don’t mind but I don’t give my consent.” They cannot search w/o probable cause and have to let you go.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

Now you sound like a Criminal.

Ever notice that anyone that caches less than you do is a moron, while anyone that caches more than you do is a maniac? -Dru Morgan

1.1k · February 12, 2003

I've been in LE for over 32 yrs. I got into geocaching because of an intel bulletin we received about 1 yr ago. Remember, this was just a few months after 9/11. It explained if we saw people stumbling around in the woods carrying GPS, hidng boxes, and claiming to look for toys hidden in ammo cans, that it was an internet game, not a terrorist looking to plant bombs.

Think of the concept. For the past 1.5 yrs the entire US nation has been on watch for terrorists striking again. You're a cop from a small locale who has never heard of geocaching, and know nothing about the capabilities of GPS. You stop someone who is not from the area and is carrying a backpack and GPS. This stranger was probably driving back and forth on streets/roads like they were lost or looking for something. You watch this stranger grab a bag, something in hand, and head out thru the woods. This stranger tells you he is looking for an ammo can hidden by someone he doesn't know and in this can is McToys, a used golf ball, an old CD, and an ink pen. Yeah, right. Like, who would believe that! Nobody in their right mind would think of hiding all that junk and then expect total strangers to go out in all kinds of weather to actually look for it.

You have to admit, geocaching is a strange concept.

2.9k · February 12, 2003

Were you in the area where there was Space Shuttle debris?? He might have been looking for supicuous looking people looking for debris, for themselves.

------------------------

My home page about GPS units and information

February 12, 2003

It's too late for Ramblin' (sounds like it worked out OK), but the ACLU publishes a pocket guide called:What To Do If You're Stopped By The Police

It's listed under "Police Practices : Racial Profiling" but it's actually general-purpose.

February 12, 2003

Since 9-11 the police are on high alert and are going to check out suspicious activities. In Texas it's probably alittle more so with the Shuttle dedri. I do disagree with his actions though. If your lisence and registration comes back clean that he should send you on your merry way. After my experience at Be the tree I have learned not to park near a school, especially at night. I also carry geocaching cards that explain what it is all about.

1.2k · February 12, 2003

If the officer was rude and unprofessional during this incident, then shame on him.

If he was just persistent and trying to make sure you were no threat to the people in his jurisdiction, then kudos to him.

Sometimes it is NOT possible to do both at the same time, we are usually as nice to people as they ALLOW us to be. I know that is my philosophy, to be as nice to people as they allow me to be. Which means if you won't let me be nice.... I won't be....heh heh heh heh heh.

In all seriousness, we weren't there, and I don't know the "rudeness threshold" of the individual involved. So we'll just have to be satisfied with our little discussion here.

Let's be careful out there.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

1.3k · February 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by USAF_Park:
he should send you on your merry way. After my experience at http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=42114 I have learned not to park near a school, especially at night. I also carry geocaching cards that explain what it is all about.

One part of your log is unclear to me. Why was your car impounded? For parking near a school? That's illegal?

February 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by hoovman:
It's too late for Ramblin' (sounds like it worked out OK), but the ACLU publishes a pocket guide called:http://www.aclu.org/PolicePractices/PolicePractices.cfm?ID=10626&c=118

OMG!!! I clicked on the link and actually accesed the ACLU's website!!!!! Say it ain't so! AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

SteveL

These are my opinions and only my opinions, unless you share them as well, which would make them our opinions, but I am not of the opinion that I can express your opinion as my opinion without your prior expression of said opinion, and then my re-utterance of that opinion would, in my opinion, be foolish unless I were expressing agreement to your opinion, and then it wouldn't be my opinion but your opinion to which I only agree.

1.4k · February 12, 2003

As an officer, I often find myself walking a very fine line of trying to do my job while not violating someone's civil liberties. It is an awesome responsibility to pull someone over for a traffic violation. I often stress-out when I have to detain someone longer than usual due to the dispatcher being slow or the computers running slow on returning information. I have had to literally sit up to 15-20 minutes to get information back from the computer. I always feel as if I am violating the rights of the citizen as I am detaining them longer than it should take, but I have the responsibility to verify that they are not wanted on any warrants. I don't want to inconvenience anyone just as I would not want to be inconvenienced. Sometimes, I do ask questions and briefly interview the citizen. It's within my rights to do so and I try to do so professionally. I have had citizens ask for my supervisor's name and I gladly provide it. Sometimes the citizen may call and complain and sometimes they don't. I will not armchair quarterback the officer being discussed as I wasn't there and there's always two sides to every story. I understand how Ramblin' Wreck feels and could also argue the officer's point of view... I would be hard pressed to play devil's advocate for either side. My advice to everyone would just to be honest and most likely you'll not have any problems. The officer may give you a funny look or not understand, but most officers will most likely figure anyone that is crazy enough to look for Tupperware in the forest isn't a threat Happy caching!

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

February 12, 2003

HEllo,

Sorry to hear about your pull over, here is a link to cache explaination cards you can carry and hand off to the police...Even though he doesn't have a computer, I'm sure the police station does and if he really wanted to know what Geocaching was he could look it up and infrom the other officers and if you hand him a card with the website on it , he may even remember to check it out.....Who knows you might run into him at a cache with his family on your next trip!Printable Carry Cards

See you in the woods!

Natureboy1376

4.4k · February 12, 2003

ORANGE ALERT, SPACESHUTTLE.There are so many people that are coming into the areas to try and get a piece of the Shuttle (not saying you are),and our Country is on High alert.What is 20 minutes when you could be gone forever by someone who does not care.I do not like being delayed either I have not a perfect record in my life but have come to the conclusion that I am Glad that there are those who do care about our safety.I would have been ticked off too,but that is life at the moment.When I see Officers in the Area I go(caching)I go to them 1st and let them know what I am doing this has proven to help in having confrontations,that are lengthy.they usually are not interested and now they know who you are,and what you are doing,I have had them follow to see that it was realy doing what I stated.Keep your chin up Maybe thats why it's called the MONSTER?????

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails

February 13, 2003

Tracy and I have often discussed getting stopped while caching. It has not happened to us yet, but we have sometimes been uncomfortable hunting caches in neighborhoods, and driven away.

We have hunted some neighborhood caches, and sometimes gotten some foul looks. Still, no one has bothered us or called the police.

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Trailblazer # 1:
ORANGE ALERT, SPACESHUTTLE.There are so many people that are coming into the areas to try and get a piece of the Shuttle (not saying you are),and our Country is on High alert.What is 20 minutes when you could be gone forever by someone who does not care.I do not like being delayed either I have not a perfect record in my life but have come to the conclusion that I am Glad that there are those who do care about our safety.I would have been ticked off too,but that is life at the moment.When I see Officers in the Area I go(caching)I go to them 1st and let them know what I am doing this has proven to help in having confrontations,that are lengthy.they usually are not interested and now they know who you are,and what you are doing,I have had them follow to see that it was realy doing what I stated.Keep your chin up Maybe thats why it's called the MONSTER?????

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails

Amen to that. We're in an Orange Alert and while the media is making a big fuss over duct tape and sheets of plastic, people are becoming immune to it. I'm not saying everyone should run out an panic but be mindful of the situation.

I'm glad that law enforcement is taking the orange alert seriously. We're all going to have to deal with a little more security and suspicion. This is not the same USA after 9/11.

The great question...which I have not been able to answer, despite my thirty years of research into the feminine soul, is "What does a woman want?" --Freud

February 13, 2003

The media has to hype everything up 100 times more than what it should be. That's what sells papers and gets you to tune in to their 24 hour news channels. Then you have politicians that want to take comments about 100mph tape and blow it out of proportion for some sort of political gain.

Frankly I believe it is distasteful at best.

NOTE: For goodness sakes, profile terrorist. I'm sorry if you do not agree, but profiling is not that bad. I profiled my wife! Most all of us profiled our job! We profile investments, houses, cars. Profiling is not bad. Stereotyping is bad, but profiling is not. With that said, I do not believe you can honestly say that geocachers fit the profile of a terrorist (unless you are hiding ammo cans outside of crowded shopping malls).

Just some thoughts.

Well, it happened to me... DWG (Driving While Geocaching)

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