Caches in National Parks...

[+JMBella]

OK. I Know caches in National Parks are off limits. But what if you get permission in writing? Has anyone tried to get permission for a cache in a National Park? Why, specifically are National Parks off limits? Any feedback, especially from admins would be appreciated. I ask because I have in fact been granted permission verbally and just need to write a proposal so everything is in black and white.

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

[+Renegade Knight]

Permission is King. If you get permission you are in. You might have to go the extra mile to prove you have permission since GC.com knows that NPS lands ban geocaching.

 

I've got tentative permission for a cache in an area jointly administered by the BLM and the NPS. Alas it's in the BLM area and my 4x4 is not in the shape needed to make the trip to actually plant the cache. Such is life.

[+Alan2]

I placed a cche in Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn not realizing it was part of Gateway NRA. Once I found out (well, within a couple of months ) I finally called the park manager to fes up. He maintained his cool (actually I could hear the seething under his breath). But told me to remove. Actually it was gone before it could be removed. Hmm. I wonder who took it?

 

Alan

[gpsblake]

From usenet discussion group.

 

Ref: http://www.nps.gov/morningreport/msg01095.html

 

NPS Morning Report - Monday, March 11, 2002

 

02-056 - Lake Roosevelt NRA (WA) - Geocaching Incident

 

Rangers recently conducted an investigation into geocaching in the park.

Geocaching is a sport in which individuals or organizations cache materials

at particular locations, then provide the GPS coordinates via the Internet

so that other people can attempt to find them. Some times caching entails

digging, which presents obvious problems in national parks. On February

27th, Patrick Hall asked permission to bury a geocache within the park's

historic Fort Spokane Unit. During the conversation, Hall made several

statements which revealed that he'd previously been investigated by the US

Fish and Wildlife Service for this same activity, and that other geocaches

might already be buried within the park. Ranger Jaime Green investigated

and found that two caches had already been buried near Fort Spokane by a

geocache player known as "Fuzzybear." Additional investigation uncovered a

connection between "Fuzzybear" and Hall. Hall was interviewed and admitted

placing both caches. Parks concerned about this activity within their

boundaries may go to http://www.geocaching.com and search for caches

located in their areas. [Chris Rugel, DR, Fort Spokane District, LARO, 3/8]

 

 

Ref: http://www.nps.gov/morningreport/msg00806.html

 

NPS Morning Report - Wednesday, March 21, 2001

 

Geocaching - There is a new web-based activity called geocaching that

has affected several National Park Service areas. The Ranger

Activities Division asked Olympic NP SA Mike Butler to investigate.

Here's his report: Geocaching is an activity in which participants

hide a cache and take a position at the location using a GPS receiver.

The position is then published on the group's web site with an

invitation to search for the "treasure." Caches often contain a

notebook or log book and something the finder may take. The finder is

asked to put another item in the cache for others to discover and will

often report the find on the web site. Several caches have been found

in National Park Service areas. The webmaster for the site

(www.geocaching.com) has been contacted. He was very surprised that

geocaching is illegal in NPS areas, and understood NPS concerns about

the damage geocaching has and can cause to historic, archeological and

natural sites. He agreed to work with the Service to discourage

further geocaching activities in parks. Two related activities were

also discovered. Letterboxing (www.letterboxing.org) is a phenomenon

similar to geocaching in that a player takes directions from a web

site and uses those directions to find a hidden object. In

letterboxing, the directions come in the form of a riddle and the

hidden object is a stamp which the finder can use to stamp a piece of

paper to prove that he has visited the site. The web site showed the

location of at least two letterboxes in parks. The parks have been

notified, but the Service has not yet contacted the webmaster or game

managers. The Degree Confluence Project (www.confluence.org) is

another web-based activity where people try to visit various latitude

and longitude integer degree intersections and report their findings

on the web site. In this case, however, no objects are placed in the

ground, and there are no apparent regulatory violations in areas where

cross-country travel is allowed or where the confluence is not on a

protected site. There has been no attempt to contact the project

organizers. [Mike Butler, SA, OLYM]

[+mtn-man]

My first cache was placed in a National Battlefield Park with permission. After an 18 month run and almost 100 finds I was asked to remove it. If you can get permission from the park manager you can get it listed on the site.

 

mtn-man... admin brick mason

"approver of all trades" -- per Woodsters Outdoors

[+Squirrel Nut & Beersnob]

There are 2 caches at Grand Canyon National Park that are logbook-only, using existing guest books. Something like that would probably be approvable.

 

When you get into a physical cache that you have permission for, it becomes tougher... since the NPS is generally against physical caches what happens if the person you got permission from is transferred? Is the person you got permission from the park superintendant? If not, does the superintendant know what's going on?

 

If it's something that can be accessed inside a visitor center or the like, and the people there know what's going on, IMHO that should be fine. But somewhere outside, I don't think that's a good idea until and unless the NPS becomes more accepting of geocaching.

 

I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is

[+9Key]

Why was he burying his caches?!

 

-------

~ Texas Geocaching ~ Geocaching Icons - The Selector ~

[Moun10Bike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Key:

Why was he burying his caches?!

---

 

He wasn't. That was just one of several serious mischaracterizations of geocaching that occurred early on and helped to get it banned from National Parks. Those caches were simply concealed under branches and debris.

[+joefrog]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

 

He wasn't. That was just one of several serious mischaracterizations of geocaching that occurred early on and helped to get it banned from National Parks. Those caches were simply concealed under branches and debris.

---

 

I caught that as well. "often involves digging." Hmm....

 

Joel (joefrog)

 

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for ye are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"

[+Johnnie Stalkers]

We are going on a cache / camp trip this weekend to Daniel boone NF in KY. We have camped there for years, but this will be our first trip since we started caching. I was surprised to find several Caches near where we will be camping. Thought I had better check their policy, I am pleasantly surprised.

 

You can read that policy here:

 

Daniel Boone NF GeoCaching Policy

 

Understand what? My purpose? You know that. To find the Tower is my purpose. I'm sworn.

-Roland, The Gunslinger

[Pirogoeth]

Why is it outright banned in National Parks? The only thing I can think of is people hiding caches where a finder is likely to be eaten by a bear or in some remote spot where a finder might have to be rescued.

 

Are national parks and national forests the same thing?

[+WeightMan]

All of this applies to United States National Park Service. What are the policies elsewhere around the world?

 

This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

 

Weight Man

[Moun10Bike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pirogoeth:

 

Are national parks and national forests the same thing?

---

 

No. They are separate entities administered by separate organizations for different purposes.

 

National Forests are administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. They are tracts of woodland set aside by the government to support logging and other extractive industries. They usually do not have qualms about recreational use on them, including geocaching, although individual ranger districts or officially-declared Wilderness Areas within a given National Forest may have their own sets of restrictions.

 

National Parks are administered by the National Park Service, an arm of the US Department of the Interior. National Parks are set aside for preservation and as a result, you'll see many more forms of recreation banned in them.

[gpsblake]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Key:

Why was he burying his caches?!

---

 

remember their concern might be not the burying of the cache but FINDERS who might assume it is buried and start digging, kicking around, putting their hands into sensative plants, and such. It also depends on the word, buried. Buried could mean kicking around pinestraw to find a cache (we all have done that one, moved pinestraw around or seen them buried in pinestraw, twigs, et al) or removing twigs and such to see if a cache is there. It might also be a liability issue, if someone sticks their hands into a tree trunk and gets bitten by a critter, they could sue the park system. I believe cache's should be allowed in National Parks, as long as they are on and right near established trails where people are already walking but do not require bushwacking and/or moving around of the scenery, that might concern them also.

[+JMBella]

quote:

---

But somewhere outside, I don't think that's a good idea

---

 

I have gone over with the supervisor his concernes. The cache will be hidden outside but in a way that is both well concealed from muggles and very easy to be found by cachers without stepping foot off trail. Specific instructions will be posted on the cache page, with the understanding that if the guidlines are not followed the cache would have to be archived. I'm very excited about the location of the cache and even more excited by the fact that the management of the property is so open minded about geocaching.

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

[dsandbro]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Johnnie Stalkers:

We are going on a cache / camp trip this weekend to Daniel boone NF in KY. We have camped there for years, but this will be our first trip since we started caching. I was surprised to find several Caches near where we will be camping. Thought I had better check their policy, I am pleasantly surprised.

 

You can read that policy here:

 

http://www.southernregion.fs.fed.us/boone/DBGeocaching_policy.doc.rtf

 

Understand what? My purpose? You know that. To find the Tower is my purpose. I'm sworn.

-Roland, The Gunslinger

---

 

That's a real common sense policy. Obviously developed by a Forest Service employee that geocaches, and not by a desk bound bureaucrat.

 

I am going to forward a copy to the local Forest Service office.

 

===========================================================

"The time has come" the Walrus said "to speak of many things; of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and Kings".

[+Captain Morgan]

Here in Finland we can hide physical caches in National Parks, but not in Strict Nature Reserves.

 

The regulations applying to strict nature reserves are stricter than those in the Finnish national parks. It is generally not possible to move around in them without a written permit. Some strict nature reserves have a nature trail open to the public. Permission to visit places off the hiking trails is given only for scientific purposes.

 

Finnish national parks instead are totally different. An important role of Finnish national parks is to provide opportunities for recreation, hiking and similar outdoor pursuits (including geocaching). Provided certain basic rules are adhered to, anyone may wander freely inside a national park. Many parks now feature nature trails, as well as information boards pointing out facets of interest. Many parks also have cooking places and tent sites. Some parks even boast a large camping site, complete with rentable cabins or unlocked huts.

 

Regards, Olli

[PC Medic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pirogoeth:

Why is it outright banned in National Parks? The only thing I can think of is people hiding caches where a finder is likely to be eaten by a bear or in some remote spot where a finder might have to be rescued.

 

Are national parks and national forests the same thing?

---

 

Not real, but when it comes to geocaching they may as well be because they are all managed by the BLM.

 

By the way, geocaching is NOT outright banned at NP's or NF's. BLM has set guidlines and it is up to the Park Manager to make a decision based on these guidlines.

 

See them here Geocaching Activities on BLM Public Lands

[Moun10Bike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by PCMedic:

 

Not real, but when it comes to geocaching they may as well be because they are all managed by the BLM.

---

 

That is not correct. The Bureau of Land Management has its own set of lands that it administers. It is an arm of the Department of the Interior, just as the National Park Service is, but the NPS administers a completely different set of lands (PDF file link). The National Forests are administered by the Forest Service, an arm of the U.S. Department of Agriculture, and are again a completely different set of lands.

 

Geocaches are outright banned in National Parks, although as always the local land manager has the final say. If someone can get written permission from the manager of a National Park for placement of a geocache, that's fantastic.