Park lands success! St. Johns River Water Management District (SJRWMD)

[+ger]

I have been with working the St. John River Water Management District (SJRWMD) in Florida to work out a compromise to allow goecaching on the lands they manage (over 400,000 acres of land in Florida).

 

They originally confiscated two caches and said geocaching was not allowed on District lands. I pointed out to them that nowhere in Florida Law or Florida Administrative Rules prohibited geocaching and that some of the things they said were illegal (such as going off trail) were actually specifically allowed by Florida Admin. Code.

 

Myself and many other geocachers sent them emails and letters pointing out the many benefits of geocaching to the district, such as showing people see that there is much more to Florida then Disney World in addition to the cache in trash out philosphy.

 

They did have valid concerns about caches being placed in fragile ecological areas.

 

They have now agreed to allow geocaching with prior approval on district lands. They have set up a web site to request cache approval located at http://sjrwmd.com/programs/operations/land_mgmt/geo_cache.html Seems simple enough and the rules are not that difficult to work within.

 

After resolving the initial proclamation of no caches allowed, it was nice to have a governmental agency work with us to allow geocaching on lands they manage versus a flat out prohibition

[+Technojunkie]

It's nice to see reasonable people come to reasonable solutions....

 

Well done!

 

Tim

[+Acc-Risk and Snarflax]

Excellent

 

Good work...

 

Contents Under Pressure...

[+Acc-Risk and Snarflax]

Excellent

 

Good work...

 

Contents Under Pressure...

[Rigour]

Very cool. Where can we write to commend them on this decision? Too often people only write to complain, not to thank people when their concerns are heard.

[+Planet]

ger,

You are wonderful. Take your right hand, reach behind you and give yourself a pat on the back!

 

Rigour,

I went to the link above and found this address on the site: webmaster@sjrwmd.com Perhaps we can write there and thank them for being so nice.

 

Great job!

 

Cache you later,

Planet

[umc]

Good Job, way to take an active role in promoting the sport/game

 

[+bigredmed]

Could you summarize the steps you took to set this up so that if this arises in other states, we can start further ahead?

1. Where do you get access to these state laws and admin codes?

2. How did you get around the guy at the front counter who can't help you?

3. What was the proposal they finally bit on?

 

Thanks.

 

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

[Lyra]

Though we have yet to encounter any problems here in Southside and Southwestern Virginia (that I know of, at least), I think it's inevitable, given the expansion of the hobby.

 

A few thoughts...

 

In dealing with these folks, try to convince them to keep an open mind and have them check out the link in the original post to show them that other agencies are willing to be reasonable. Advise them that the best possible solution is to adopt reasonable guidelines, in lieu of geocaching on their land becoming a clandestine venture that will be nothing more than a policing headache for them. I deal with governmental agencies on a daily basis and my experience has been that avoidance of future problems is a definite plus on the pro side when cosidering a cost-benefit analysis.

 

Also, with regard to access to statutory and administrative laws and regulations, a good site to check out is Searchsystems.netwhich, for the most part, gives links to online compilations of such laws. Of course, wading through the statutes is pretty difficult, and the administrative regulations can be a nightmare.

 

Good work, though!

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

[+Metaphor]

I was down at Blue Springs SP with a bunch of high school kids last March on a manatee habitat restoration project (at least that's what I wrote in the grant application) and was dismayed to find that there weren't any caches within the canoeable area, as I had no car. Now, I have a reason to do a follow up trip! (Even though it was a devious way to get out of the Maryland drizzle season, we did do several service projects, snorkel cleaning the bottom of the spring, tearing out coral ardesia, and watering new scrub pine plantings in the park. The ranger in charge was excellent... he'll know who we were if he's reading. Many thanks.)

 

This is a very beautiful area and I highly recommend that instead of Disney, you spend a couple of days camping here instead. It's real.

 

"All of us are standing in the mud, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

 

[This message was edited by Metaphor on September 21, 2002 at 04:59 AM.]

[+ger]

What worked here was explaining what geocaching is all about and focusing on the benefits that geocaching can bring to an area. Too often, the managers of park areas only hear or focus on the potential negatives (trampling of vegatation, caches are buried, etc.)Pointing out that what we were doing was not a violation of Florida Law or Admin. Rules was only the start. Apparently, the managers of the SJRWMD were notified by another agency that cachers were burying caches and people searching for caches were digging holes all over an archilogical site while searching for it. So their first impression was that most caches were buried and people searching for them were damaging the surrounding areas while searching for them. Quite a few geocachers in the area wrote emails explaining the benefits of geocaching (cache in trash out, introducing people to new areas etc.) We were able to show that we are resposible individuals with no intention of damaging the environment. Luckily, we had a great ally in Nels Parson, the district land manager. He took a reasonable approach to the situation and was able to come up with a solution that allowed geocaching on district lands while also ensuring from the district point if view that caches were not going to be placed in any sensitive areas of district lands. Hopefully the approval process will work smoothly for everyone.

 

I encourage you to email Nels Parson at nparson@sjrwmd.com and thank him for working with us. He really went to bat for us when his superiors were trying to ban geocaching outright

[+MaxEntropy]

"After one year from the date of approval, I will request an extension, relocation on the same management area or remove the cache completely."

 

I was thinking that for many caches, after you've had it in the same spot for a year, it might be a good idea to move it a little to give that spot a chance to heal.

Of course, some cache sites don't need to heal and others can't be moved because there's not another great spot around.

I've seen a few caches that have little trails around them and some of the vegetation has been trampled, so if you can move it, you should.

[+Alan2]

and they have a simple straight forward application. Glad they see geocaching as really the simple, non destructive, park-opening hobby it really is.

 

By the way what exact areas does this cover? State parks? How would you know where there "land" is?

 

Tks.

 

Alan

[+Acc-Risk and Snarflax]

This got me thinking... There's a smallish park here that is a complete trash nightmare in which caching is banned... I wonder...

 

If I could organize a small group of local cachers to take a few hours for a cleanup and cart out all the trash, if that would be a huge positive towards working with the city...

 

It'd be nice to have the argument, "Yeah, but we spent last saturday cleaning that park..."

 

Just a thought...

 

Contents Under Pressure...

[+GatoRx]

Excellent work! Many thanks to ger and anyone else who helped out in changing the SJRWMD's opinion on geocaching.

 

I've hunted several caches on district lands (before they were aware of geocaching, apparently) and the areas are usually very nice for hiking and camping (when allowed.) Thanks again for helping us all out.

[+ger]

There is a map of District Lands at www.sjrwmd.com They manage over 500,000 acres of land in Florida, so a complete prohibition would have eliminate alot of great area for caching. The lands they manage are not state parks, but they do work closely with them (i.e. sometimes the District and the State Parks Department, etc. co-purchase lands.)The District has indicated they are notifying the other agencies they work with of their policy on geocaching. Hopefully this will be a good thing since the other agencies will see a good policy that works

[+Dave and Michelle]

We submitted a request to place a cache in the Stokes Landing Conservation Area. We will let you know how long it takes to get a reply.

[the federation]

I just got my first approval from the SJRWMD on a cache that I had previously placed on their lands. The experience was quite easy and painless.

I also would like to take this oppurtunity to thank Ger and Mr. Parsons for working out this situation.

the federation