Handicap Guidelines Generator

May 7, 2003

I've written a quick little tool to generate guidelines to help handicapped people determine if they can do your cache.

However, I need your help with it! I don't claim to be an authority on disabilities, so please take a look and give me some feedback, either on here or via Email.

Its not meant to be a 100% effective solution, but to try and improve things a little for those of us who need additional information before setting out on a cache. Thanks.

http://www.britishideas.com/geocaching/handicap.php

Groover

1.3k · May 7, 2003

Wow, that's a nice thing you've created. I'd add some provisions for mud, ice, standing water, and a few others. That's really cool.

"Searching with my good eye closed"

May 7, 2003

Awesome idea! It's sometimes hard for others to be aware of what challenges exist.

May 8, 2003

Unfortunately, many people (including the government, apparently) assume handicap only applies to people in wheelchairs. There are many other types of handicaps that make it difficult to get around, while not being visible as a handicap. People with heart or lung or knee or back problems may not be able to climb ramps or hills so elevation of the trail would be important information. And many people who are in wheelchairs but don't have anyone to push them cannot do steep or long elevations, either (don't get me started on the thoughtless design of our brand new local library).

And, don't assume that they wouldn't want to Geocache just because of their handicap...it may mean that a terrain difficulty of 1 star is a 2 or 3 star for them, and 5 stars are off-limits, but they can still geocache and not just sit at home in a chair (exercise is good for a lot of these problems, like arthritis). But being more difficult does not mean they can't do this sport...just that they have to be a little more picky about the sites they chose. And your booklet could help with this if you include the proper information.

I applaud you for making a handicap accessibility booklet. It may prove to be very valuable, but please include the rest of the handicaps, too...not just what the govenment says are required (whoever designed those regulations, I have no idea...have you ever noticed that many handicapped parking places are NOT the closest ones to the door...again, making it difficult for those with handicaps that do not involve a wheelchair...ever try to walk in crutches?...distance does matter!) I know you can't cover everything, but think about a few of the things I've said.

3.1k · May 8, 2003

Actually, it isn't a booklet, it is a form that generates a detailed description of slopes, distances, etc. You should take a look, I don't think you could ask for a better tool to handle all the cases you describe. Well, maybe it could generate HTML

Many kudos, Team Spike.

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

24.7k · May 8, 2003

That's a good start. More handy than I thought. There are a lot of factors that you need to get it to cover though.

Slope...2% is ADA Steeper is a Ramp. Ramps need landings etc.

It's pretty in depth but the way it's broken out I think you can hit a 90% effective level if you can find the balance between to Anal to use, and Not enough information.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

May 8, 2003

Thanks for the responses and suggestions! I'm building up a nice list of improvements.

Regarding the slope - I don't know what a 2% slope is, but I have a good idea what a regular wheelchair ramp looks like. Also I cannot picture in my head a 1 in 4 slope, etc. I was trying to put the slopes in everyday terms that people will understand. Maybe the "wheelchair ramp" isn't the best, but I think it is better than "2%" or "1 in 4". Are there any other suggestions on improving this aspect?

Groover

May 8, 2003

Good idea. The only thing I see not addressed is visual impairment. Perhaps a question along the lines of 'cache color blends well with background' and 'cache is contrasting color with background'.

Rabbitsong is right. Disabilities (a better term than 'handicapped') involve more than wheelchairs. Besides mobility impairments, disabilities involve visual and dexterity limitations, although the cache lid and placement questions address dexterity issues.

This generator will also help parents with younger children, or families that want to bring older relatives along. This will help promote geocaching as family friendly recreation.

========================================

"The time has come" the Walrus said "to speak of many things; of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and Kings".

May 8, 2003

What about Multi caches?

As a test I went to rate the multi I have out, but the terrain and container descriptions for the different stages of the multi are quite different....

----------------------------------

"The number you have reached is imaginary, please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again... <beeeeep>"

4.7k · May 8, 2003

i'm interested in having my caches be accessible, or at east flagging those that are so people can tell if the hunt will be possible for them. i'm kind of concerned that other people might take the description as bonus hints.

i've given it some thought, and i don't have any brilliant ideas to get around this. i've recently hidden a cache where the smooth rolling surface ends very close to the container; most people in chairs could get it alone, but it's kind of hard to post that information without making it a dead giveaway.

do we have maybe an icon that says "may be accessible; email hider for details?" there are a number of caches for which the finder would almost certainly need a helper to retrieve the container. a finder with good upper body strength would have no problem. a finder with impaired strength or movement would have a hard time.

i have emailed a number of hiders for particulars about caches for a friend of mine. most have been very responsive. they can tell me pretty easily if their cache is suitable if i supply a little information about what my friend can do herself, and what she can do with help.

does anybody have any brilliant idea about how to prevent the fully able from scoring bonus hints? and what about published hints serving as spoilers for handicapped people? the friend i have in mind does not want to be told where the blasted thing is. she just wants to know if she can hunt it alone, and if she can, will she be able to get it before her husband and kids. her husband wants hints. he's not getting them.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team VE:
What about Multi caches?

As a test I went to rate the multi I have out, but the terrain and container descriptions for the different stages of the multi are quite different....

Well I would think that a specific person who starts out on a multicache would want to complete the cache, which means visiting all stages. Therefore if I was rating a multicache (which I will because I have one), I would enter the worst case selections for all the legs. So if one leg has boulders and another leg has steep hills, I would select boulders and hills for the route.

As for the containers, I would list them in the "Other" section, with something like:

All of the following are present on this multicache:

Screw top

Ammo can lid

Combination lock

Groover

May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by flask:
i've given it some thought, and i don't have any brilliant ideas to get around this...

...the friend i have in mind does not want to be told where the blasted thing is. she just wants to know if she can hunt it alone, and if she can, will she be able to get it before her husband and kids. her husband wants hints. he's not getting them.

I considered this and I don't have a really good solution either, so I figured it was best to give people the ability to do "something" to help. The best I could come with was to seperate out the generated sections and present them encoded and unencoded. Then people can mix and match what they want to put on their cache page. For example, everything unencoded except the sections regarding the cache location and container. Then the reader can decide for themselves if they want to know everything up front, or take the risk that they cannot do the cache but no spoilers. I think that the best approach is to let people decide for themselves.

With regard to able-bodied people using them as spoilers/cheats/etc., I don't have a solution for that. I think it is better to take the risk and try and include handicapped people. If people want to "cheat" then they are only cheating themselves.

Note that there is nothing to stop you putting on the cache page something like:

"Handicap accessibility guidelines available. Email me for them."

and then Email the generated text when people ask for it.

Groover

4.7k · May 8, 2003

i like that idea. it fits kind of with what i settled on for my last cache. i stated there that although most of the hunt is accessible, the last some-odd feet probably cannot be reached my a person in a wheelchair. bikes, strollers and dogs are all suitable. further access guidelines available in email.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

1.7k · May 8, 2003

Rate a multicache on the basis of the toughest and easiest parts of the multi and state in cache description that the stages range from 1-3 in difficulty.

As someone with physical limitations, but not in a wheelchair, this rating system is a beneficial to handicapped geocachers.

Physically fit cachers can help us with this rating system AND with a brief note in their cache description of any hazards that we might encounter. This is how we currently decide if a cache is worth going after.

But if we have to e-mail someone to get the handicapped rating, then we may miss a first find waiting for the response. The first find thing has become a bit of a thrill for us.

1.4k · May 8, 2003

This is a cool tool. It's easy to think something is accessible when it's not.

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

May 9, 2003

Very nice job, thoughtful too. As one who is slightly disabled I hope that cachers see fit to start using this system. I hope it is recognized and given space by the site.

Only nuts eat squirrels

Snake...

1.6k · May 9, 2003

I don't want to seem callous or insensitive, but I don't see this as taking off. While the tool is good and seems to be well thought out, the output is verbose. I don't see any significant number of people putting this on their page.

I do have a few caches where a person in a wheelchair can get a spot very near the cache, but some even make a fit able-bodied person grunt to retrieve. Not a single one do I see a person limited to a wheelchair being able to retrieve--even the ones that I made extremely easy. On the other hand, if it's only limited mobility, then a few are accessible.

My only experience with limited mobility is long ago with a brother of a ex-step mother and he was quadriplegic, so most of the posters in this thread seems to know more than I do, however, it does seem that there can be a better way.

I know the D/T ratings take some of this into account, but terrain and accessibility are not exactly parallel.

Here are some suggestions:

Those of you in the know get together and come up with some guidelines for placing an accessible cache. Might need two, three or more levels; ubran, rural, and wild, but you get my drift.
Team Spike, write your tool so it provides a Java pop-up--that fails gracefully for those who insist on turning java off--with a symbol so interested people can click on it and get the accessible information. This provides for not having the information directly on the page and doesn't print out. Caches can be picked based on the finders abilities. (This is where the site's "wish list" could be useful, if it's implemented.)
Provide a rating system with icons for the accessiblity of the cache, wheelchair accessible, limited mobility, etc. so interested parties can see at a glance the general level the cache is.

I understand this is coming from an able-bodied person's point of view, but hope this helps!

CR

2.7k · May 9, 2003

Good idea, I will have to look at in more depth because most of my virtuals are done with the handicap (mobility) involved.

As stated in other threads their are more than

one type of handicap. I'm almost deaf and I just hate it when bike riders have the way on trails, hell I can't hear them and the looks I get when they YELLon your left. And I don't move fast enough for them. I think a hiking stick would be very useful when jammed into the rear spokes as they whizz on by. Now I can see what that helmet is for as you fly off your dadgum bike.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

4.7k · May 9, 2003

hey, hey. there's no need to become assaultive. plenty of hearing people don't move at all when bikers call way. it isn't always onvious to someone on foot what the difficulties of riding that particular passage are.

almost exclusively, a pedestrian has right of way over a bike, but more than half the time a person on foot yields track just because it's easier for him than for the cyclist.

it is not considered polite to simply ignore an overtaking trail user regardless of method of travel. they don't know you can't hear them . they probably wonder why you're so unfriendly. a little information goes a long way. if i were overtaking a hearing person, i might expect them to react in some fashion when i call. if i knew the pedestrian was deaf or near deaf, i'd take much more care getting around, just like i do for people with strollers or youg kids in tow.

and if you're looking to do a lot of damage to the rider, i recommend the front wheel.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

May 9, 2003

Sissy-N-CR:

Thanks for your feedback! Note that you don't have to put the info on the cache page, but rather create a page somewhere that contains it and then put a link to the page on the cache page.

The java pop-up is an interesting idea, but it sounds like to make it as easy as possible for people to add this information to their cache pages, I would have to host the Java pop-up code and the generated text that people create. Unfortunately the server my web site is on belongs to the company I work for, so I cannot supply that amount on bandwidth. The best I can do is a generation tool for people to cut and paste from into whatever they want.

From my past experience, people do not want to come up with guidelines. There is a lack of enthusiasm for this kind of feature in general. I finally decided to take the approach of creating something for people to comment on, and so far it has been a much more successful way of getting "something" done IMHO.

Groover

1.6k · May 9, 2003

I'm not even sure that javascript is allowed on the cache pages to begin with. But I was thinking of self contained java windows where the whole page is contained in the link--no off site page needed.

Something to look into.

As for the guidelines, you guys could probably just come up with something. Define what accessible is and the different levels/types and the icons, and just make it say "Accessible as per these guidelines." It'd probably become the defacto standard.

1.6k · May 9, 2003

Doh! TWhat a brain hiccup! I know java works on cache pages because I use it for my Rate-a-Cache system.

Plus, you can upload a webpage to your cache page as if it is a photo.

CR

May 20, 2003

I've updated it and tried to incorporate as many suggestions as possible. Let me know if you have any more suggestions, spot problems, etc.

http://www.britishideas.com/geocaching/handicap.php

I'm try to get Jeremy to put a link to it on the cache submission page - if nothing else then as a stop-gap until the web site incorporates some kind of system from him. Please give me your support.

Groover

1.7k · May 21, 2003

I have a physical limitation (which is really flaring up and killing me today...grumble grumble). This system seems like it addresses those with physical needs as long as cachers take the time to fill it in.

I support this rating system. Thanks Team Spike

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

4.1k · May 22, 2003

When we set a cache we do so base on where we have been in the past and found something of interest, be it petrified logs or scenery or something unusual. Since we are not handicapped we tend not to think in those particular terms --- BUT -- we try to place caches where most people can find them. for instance, the cache we placed yesterday (Bigfoot? GCG564) Can be reached by the elderly if they take their time and go from October to April. We took an 80yr old gentleman and his 72yr old wife to this spot several years ago.

As with most of our caches once you get to the parking area most people should be able to find the cache. The main exceptions would be wheelchair bound and blind people. Although we had not considered those with arthritis.

Perhaps and alternate solution would be to set-up a database of individuals who would be willing to assist handicapped people by driving them to cache locations, helping them deal with different terrains, etc.

We would be glad to take others out caching. Just because a route is listed as 4 wheel drive only does not mean it has to be bone jarring. To get to the cache "Funny Bone" takes about 2 hours to got about 3.5 miles. Once there most people (except chair bound)could find the cache. Even though it takes about 2 hours to get there it doesn't mean you can't stop on the way and take a break. It can be done slow and easy so most could enjoy the ride.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if someone contacts us and would like to go geocaching we would try to work out a time frame to take them.

This might be a second system to help the "challenged". We're available.

May 22, 2003

I really like your idea. I have fibromyalgia. One year ago I could barely walk. Now I can walk and hike as well. I am enjoying this remission, but remember the past. I have placed 3 accesable caches in my area. I can maintain these if I get ill again, but more importantly people with mobility issues can visit. I apprecaite your form. Hopefully it gets incorporated into the cache info. I frequently find out trails are too much and have to wait while my boyfriend finds an easy way up or just stay behind.

L

June 5, 2003

I also think this is a good idea. I have posted a note on the Indiana Geocaching message board asking if they will put a link to the BritishIdeas site on our webpage.

I have fibromyalgia too, and I would very much like to see the terrain difficulty of the caches represented as accurately as possible.

*Daphne*

Mysteries Inc.

"Their poverty, combined with their naivete and limited knowledge of the world, left them no choice but to put cheap, uninteresting stuff in their time capsule." -- from an article in the ONION, 14 Oct. 1999

9.4k · June 6, 2003

I think it's great that there are so many cachers that want improve access for those with disabilities. On my easy caches, I have tried to include useful information on terrain, but not nearly as detailed as this new form idea.

There have been many good suggestions. Include the data from the form on the cache page, make a link to your personal page that has the info, etc. The problem with any rating system (as we've seen with the normal rating system) is that you can't force people to rate a cache the same way you would.

I think the best idea is for you to email the cache owner directly and let them know you would like to find the cache, but have a particular disability. If you are planning several caches, you can copy and paste the same info for each cache owner, just change the cache name in the email:

"Hi, I noticed your cache, _____ was rated a '1' for terrain. I am in a wheelchair and am interested in searching for it. Without giving away your hiding spot, could you help me out by emailing me more details about the terrain?"

This could start a dialogue between the disabled cacher and the hider. Maybe the hider hadn't really thought about handicapped access. Maybe he knows of other caches that would be better for your ability level. He might even be willing to meet you at the cache site to help you out in retrieving/replacing the container. (I would, if asked)

Yes, this all but eliminates being a first-finder on most caches. There are just some things that disabled people have to deal with. Please don't think I am trying to bash this group of people by the previous statement.

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

June 11, 2003

Thanks for this great tool! I am planning on creating a webpage for people who cache with younger children, including improved difficulty ratings in regards to bringing children, as well as public transportation access, caches you can do by bicycle, rollerblades, etc, and some other factors. Someone else suggested I consider doing a difficulty rating for disabled cachers, and I think I'll link to your page as a resource for that. Also, perhaps you could look at integrating your output into a numerical system like Geocaching.com uses for each rating area. Have a breakdown of what a "2" means for a cache area rating to a disabled person, and then they can figure it out without having to post a huge amount of HTML on a page.

-TeamWidget

June 11, 2003

Excellent work ol' boy!

Don't Drink And Park: Accidents Cause People.

Handicap Guidelines Generator

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