Permission granted?

[+Matt1344]

Do most folks REALLY ask permission before placing caches. I'm getting ready to place my first caches and I have approached the local parks folks as well as the people who oversee the state capitol grounds for permission to place caches. The parks people said it sounds fine but we need to run it past the facilities board -- nearly a two month wait before they meet next. The state capitol people politely declined to grant permission. Is this typical? Or do most folks simply place first and hope there are no questions later?

[+welch]

Define 'Most' and 'REALLY'

 

[+cargolax]

I’m not saying that it’s right. But using a little common sense while placing a cache should not need permission.

[+JoGPS]

It only takes one cache in the wrong place to get them all taken out.You have to start somewhere, sometime, We have been working with the state and local parks in Tennessee for over a year now. I have to meet with one park Sat at 3 and another one on Sun at 12:30 Its get easier every day but first you have to start and play their game first… Now we are doing in blocks like its OK to put them in these parks now and we will look at the other four in the spring it works real good……………JOE

[+Sissy-n-CR]

I think it's almost always good to ask first, especially if you don't know the park or don't have an absolutely non-impact way to hide it.

 

First, what's a "non-impact way to hide it?" Somewhere you don't leave the first footprint, like tucked into the support beams under a boardwalk or under the lip of a sidewalk. It's a place where a hundred people a day could go and find the cache and you could never tell anyone has been there.

 

Now about asking permission, it's good to ask. Sometimes you run across a ranger or manager that is into caching and their answer might be, "Heck, yeah! I've got the perfect place, too!" Those friendly to caching also know their parks very, very well. They will know the good places to hide a cache and the bad places to hide a cache. One of the bad places we had been warned about is an area that had real bad problems with snakes. I definitely wouldn't be wanting to be hiding a cache where someone is likely to encounter snake, especially if that encounter is laying a hand on one while hunting or grabbing the cache.

 

Sometimes you run across a manager who isn't into caching, but likes the idea and you can open the door for more caches. Most managers I've talked to have be open to caching.

 

Then there are the managers that say, "Well, we can't give you permission to place the cache." Listen very closely to these. What they might be saying is, "We can't specifically grant you permission." Watch for the exclusion of "We don't want you placing caches on our land." It's very much touch-and-go situation. You have to use your good judgment, but sometimes they don't want to know about an activity so they can't get sued. Sometimes, they really are saying they don't want you to place the cache. You might even have to ask directly, "So, you're saying I can't place the cache?" Being very polite and not pushy, you might get the answer, "That's not what I said." Bingo! If it were me, I'd never mention you even ever had the conversation with that person and place the cache. Use common sense when placing, minimize impact, and don't flaunt! And don't get too terribly upset if they change their minds and you lose the cache.

 

Then we come to those that say, "No, you can't place a cache in here." Those are the ones you simply don't place the cache. You could start negotiations with them to see if you could change their minds, but don't place the cache.

 

Here's the tricky part. In the area you want to place a cache, query this site to see if there are other caches in there. If there are plenty of caches there, then it's very likely you'll get a positive response to your asking for permission. However, if they haven't heard of geocaching and they seem resistant, then don't mention this site or the fact there are caches already placed! Some people don't like it when they find out people have been going behind their backs, and that could set us back in our attempts to get into a park or system. Email the owners of the other caches and ask them if they got permission and explain the situation. I wouldn't go spouting off they placed without permission or getting hostile, just ask them who they talked to and if they could help you get permission. Maybe, they could join your efforts to open up that area.

 

Now, there are some here that say to just go ahead and place the cache and be damned with permission. I have to disagree. You have to feel out the people in charge of the area. Sometimes you see their eyes lighting up, sometimes you see their eyes glazing over. You always want to present caching as a postive activity to be joined, not some underground activity they have to watch out for.

 

In my opinion, those that flat out refuse are hostile to visitors anyway and why would you want to bring cachers to a place like that?

 

Hope this helps.

 

CR

 

[+jonboy]

You do need to look at placement of caches in your area and the local discussion boards to get a sense of what is happening locally. You will not get that impression from reading posts here, but the vast majority of caches are not placed with advance permission, though most people pretend otherwise. If a mechanism for cache approval is funtioning in your area, then you need to follow it. On New York State Forest lands, for instance, there cannot be really be official state approval until the issue is addressed in the State Land Use Master Plan, which is rewritten once every ten years, and was just finished. Cache placers may have gotten unofficial or tacit approval from local managers, but this is not really official until the issue has been addressed on a statewide basis. In Harriman State Park for instance, it is against park regulations for hikers to travel off trail, yet something like thirty caches have been placed in that park. Likewise, many caches have been placed on AT corridor lands, even though the AT is a National Park and caches are expresssly proscribed on NPS land. If we only allowed caches that are placed with writen permission, we would have 4,000 caches rather than 44,000.

[+Alan2]

A poll last April, 2002 gave these results:

 

quote:

---

Results (68 votes counted so far):

 

All the time. 11/16%

 

Sometimes. 17/25%

 

Never. 40/59%

---

 

Alan

[+flask]

private landowners- always ask

highway rights-of way- rarely

land already in public use? (E.G. swimming holes, climbing rocks) maybe.

parks? usually.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[+Mr. Snazz]

I havn't asked permission, but I've gotten one of my six active caches OK'd by the BLM after the fact, so that's a start

[RangerDanger]

I read Jonboy's comment, I wonder who he spoke to or even more specifically when he heard that. (Please don't be offended by what I am about to propose, Jonboy, up until very recently I would have agreed with you).

Unless a law (or rule with statutory authority)applies that prohibits an activity, the citizenry can do an act. Until a law allows the government to do something, the government has no authority to do it. That's just a a quick paraphrase of the U.S. Constitution. To apply that to geocaching, you need to research the specific rules that prohibit the public's right to a given activity on a given classification of land. New York State Parks (OPR&HP) has a set of rules that apply to State Parks property. New York Department of Environmental Conservation has many different sets of rules that each correspond to a type (classification) of land. State Forests are managed differently then Wildlife Management Areas, for example, and different rules apply. On Wildlife Management Areas there is a rule which clearly states that you have to remove all of your personal property when you leave.

I suggest that anyone can contact a DEC Forest Ranger to ask what specific rules prohibit geocaching on State Forest Lands, Wildlife Management Areas, or Forest Preserve Land.

Call a Captain to get a definitive answer as to what the rules mean. Try the Region 4 DEC office to ask about the Catskills (518-357-2161).

You will be pleasantly surprised at the answer you receive.

Try it, you'll be glad you did.