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Soggy Boots and Baggy Britches

poket knives in caches

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No, not liability, although that plays a major role. The 'l' word is...*drumroll* LAWYER.

 

Plain and simple, this is a protection for Jeremy and the sport of geocaching as a whole. Which one of you has the funds to back Jeremy when geocaching.com (and it's admin(s)) are sued in court because some overzealous parent went nuclear after Jr. cut his middle finger off with a knife found in a geocache? Sure, he could have done the same thing with mommy's photo_beauty_shot.jpg Miracle Blade 3 knife, but the fact is, that didn't happen. It happened at a geocache. Of course, there's always the chance that the cache owner could be hauled in as well, for careless disregard for the safety of the public in the wilderness...blah blah blah (lawyer-eze).

 

I say that anyone supporting them in geocaches (not just children being allowed to have them) contribute to a special paypal account for Jeremy to cover the legal cluster that is bound to come out of this at some point in time. My opinion is that if a child is properly trained and is proven to be responsible, by all means if you feel comfortable then let them have one. But setting up cache owners and those responsible for keeping this sport alive with this resource is a terrible idea.

 

Brian

Team A.I.

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Found cache full of pocket knives left handful of MC'D toys.

 

I sadly I agree with Jeremy and his stance.Again I feel that kids who geocache with parents are more responsible and informed then the average kids. The kids who geocache are informed like when I was in the boy scouts and club scouts. But, I get guess we allow our government come up with law and fines to protect stupid/informed people. Otherwise, they would just allow their kids to watch tv til their brain rotted out.

I'm outtie 5000 I found some caches with knives.. time for trades.. (hehe)

 

I'm glad I spent all my productive worktime browsing the forums today or I would haven't know!

Maybe you send an email to all geocachers cuz this is news to me.

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"My opinion is that if a child is properly trained and is proven to be responsible, by all means if you feel comfortable then let them have one. But setting up cache owners and those responsible for keeping this sport alive with this resource is a terrible idea."

Brian -Team A.I

 

Hear,hear.

 

"All of us are standing in the mud, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

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quote:
Originally posted by Brian - Team A.I.:

Which one of you has the funds to back Jeremy when geocaching.com (and it's admin(s)) are sued in court because some overzealous parent went nuclear after Jr. cut his middle finger off with a knife found in a geocache?


 

Sorry, i forgot that USA is the only nation in this planet where people sue in court each other, because of every possible thing... icon_razz.gif

 

70242_1300.gif

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Knives, guns and hot McDonald's coffee are all certainly appropriate topics for public debate and maybe someday these issues will be settled.

 

Until then we might note that, the game of geocaching and this forum are probably not going to be the battlegrounds where a final concensus will form. This is not the place to stand your ground or draw a line in the sand.

 

Look, Jeremy and his corps of volunteer administrators say no knives. It's his site and until one of you fine knife-dropping folks want to come up with a better geocaching universe, it's his game. If he says don't leave knives then don't leave knives. Don't like it? Get your own game.

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Yeah, that knife is a horrible idea until you actually need to use it. But, then again, if you carry your own knife and actually go prepared....

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quote:
Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:

Bit off-topic, but what the h... is nerf ball ?

I couldn't find it on dictionaries... icon_confused.gif


 

Sponge ball. Try "nerf" on amazon.com

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My roommate's dog swallowed one once and nearly died. Cost nearly $2000 in vet bills to save the poor thing. I don't think the dog would have swallowed a knife, though.

 

The Bigg Family "Delta-S"

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Even California allows the sale of automatic knives if they have a blade that is under two inches. Yep, California. Same for eBay. Certainly, a simple non-automatic folding knife should be allowed in a cache. Maybe, to be resonable, place a length limit on the blade, but preferably just allow pocket knives. Pocket knives are a favorite find for many geocachers, certainly a treasured find for my two boys.

 

Caution geocachers - snide remark follows: I got a nasty paper cut off of a log book page. Should sharp edged paper be permitted in a cache?

 

Veni, Vidi, Cachi ...

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Quote:Not the place to stand your ground

 

Knives, guns and hot McDonald's coffee are all certainly appropriate topics for public debate and maybe someday these issues will be settled.

 

Until then we might note that, the game of geocaching and this forum are probably not going to be the battlegrounds where a final concensus will form. This is not the place to stand your ground or draw a line in the sand.

 

Look, Jeremy and his corps of volunteer administrators say no knives. It's his site and until one of you fine knife-dropping folks want to come up with a better geocaching universe, it's his game. If he says don't leave knives then don't leave knives. Don't like it? Get your own game.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I would agree that no amount of bickering is going to change anything.

I will state, however; that this is exactly the place to voice your views on such subjects.

 

As far as this being Jeremy's game, that it is not. He owns this site and that is well and good. As far as what I put in my caches, that's entirely up to me.

 

Just a tool to me.

dc1.jpg

 

-Lets play global Thermonuclear war-

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quote:
As far as this being Jeremy's game, that it is not. He owns this site and that is well and good. As far as what I put in my caches, that's entirely up to me.

 

Sure . . . See how many people come find your cache without his Web site . . .

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quote:
Originally posted by Matt1344:

"...Sure . . . See how many people come find your cache without his Web site . . ."


...or how long it remains listed if you post contents which make a point (pardon the pun) of including prohibited items.

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quote:
Just a tool to me.

 

Do you carry all the tools in the photograph on your person at the same time? You must go through a lot of pockets . . .

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quote:
Originally posted by Matt1344:

 

Sure . . . See how many people come find your cache without his Web site . . .


 

If you hide it, they will come. I have a cache that is listed on the 'other' site that's not listed here. It has seen its fair share of finds. gc.com is not the only game in town.

 

--

Not Necessarily Interesting News

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wow, i read through this and laugh. this is so funny. i agree with what somebody said-use common sense. don't put a knife in a park or a cache that looks like kids made it. I say we let knives be in the caches.

 

Maxd1 icon_cool.gif

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Having gone through Scouting, in grade school it was required to have the cub scout pocket knife hung from a clasp on the belt, as part of the uniform, during the day of a den or pack meeting. I recall bringing a hatchet to school too, without a second thought on the part of my teachers. While this doesn't have anything to do with a policy of cache items, I do think it behoves us to think about what has changed in the last 40 years that we have come to this point in our society.

 

Steve Bukosky N9BGH

Waukesha Wisconsin

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Oh My Gosh! Mr. Lost and myself found a "utility tool" today...best known as a pocket knife and gave it to our 16 year old son who's on the verge of "Eagle Scout"...hope to find more since he loves collecting pocket knives..errrrrrrr..."utility tools"! :-)

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You think pocket knives are bad? Today we trashed out a fish hook that almost pierced our 6-year-old's finger. It was a 1/2 inch across (3 point treble-hook) and mixed in with toys! At least pocket knives aren't left with the pointy end exposed!

 

bandbass.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:

quote:
Originally posted by Matt1344:

"...Sure . . . See how many people come find your cache without his Web site . . ."


...or how long it remains listed if you post contents which make a point (pardon the pun) of including prohibited items.


 

Nah, I wouldn't do that. That's the problem. I'd love to list what is in my cache so people can figure out if they want their children getting exposed to such a tool. At this point, I don't think I'll be adding knives to my cache as I'd like to be fair to people (as I always have) and let them know that potential danger (for the uneducated) is in my cache. It only seems fair to me that people know such a controversial item is in a cache. So, I suppose I'll not post caches to this site that have such items.

 

-Lets play global Thermonuclear war-

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Bohica:

quote:
Originally posted by Matt1344:

 

Sure . . . See how many people come find your cache without his Web site . . .


 

If you hide it, they will come. I have a cache that is listed on the 'other' site that's not listed here. It has seen its fair share of finds. gc.com is not the only game in town.

 

--

http://nnin.net

 

Exactly.

 

-Lets play global Thermonuclear war-

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quote:
Originally posted by Matt1344:

quote:
Just a tool to me.

 

Do you carry all the tools in the photograph on your person at the same time? You must go through a lot of pockets . . .


 

I carry one knife all the time. Three knives when I'm out in the woods; two of which are in my pack. Believe me, it's not the knives that fill my pockets...my electronic gadgets do that job well.

 

-Lets play global Thermonuclear war-

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Um, without a knife in the cache, how do we sharpen the pencil?

 

{grin},

 

Randy

 

"All caches must contain a logbook, said logs shall be palm pilots--each finder required to provide fresh batteries!" (Hey, then I could simply beam my log!)

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If you think pocket knives in caches are bad then you should see all the trouble that can be caused when a harmless ordinary magnifying glass is left in a cache. icon_biggrin.gif

 

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

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What? No knives? OK, I promise to be good and stop leaving them. I've left alot of them. Didn't know that there was an issue.

 

To the owners of the caches I've left them in; Sorry if I caused any trouble...really.

 

Glad I check the forums every so often.

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Banning Knives eh! Maybe we should ban rope and shoe laces, we wouldn't want someone to hang themselves. How many people have been killed with a plastic bag and an elastic band? Better ban them too!

 

Kids aren't stupid. Mine are even allowed to use . . . scissors. eek!

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I too thought banning knives was precautionary overkill until Jeremy pointed out the inmate angle. Here in California as well as other states inmate crews from the honor camps are a major source (THE major source) of manual labor in parks and forests as well as fire crews. It may be a remote chance that an inmate would find a cache with a knife but one that cannot be ignored. Accidently or unknowingly providing a weapon to an inmate (as well as drugs, liquor, etc) can be prosecuted as a felony.

 

So in consideration the knife ban is a reasonable rule.

 

========================================

Friends don't let Friends geocache drunk.

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How can one be charged for a felony if they "accidently or unknowingly" did something. In most FREE countries doesn't intent have to be proven.

 

The inmate angle, at least in my neck of the woods is extremely remote. The onus should be on the cacher as to what he puts in the cache. A small pocket knife (for example) would be appropriate for a wilderness cache but may be not for an urban one.

 

What if friendly alien visitors find a cache with a knife, lighter, magnifying glass, piece of string and a rotten can of sardines. Are they going to consider us hostile and incinerate us.

 

Yes! That is silly! icon_rolleyes.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by eroyd:

"...Banning Knives eh! Maybe we should ban rope and shoe laces, we wouldn't want someone to hang themselves. How many people have been killed with a plastic bag and an elastic band? Better ban them too! Kids aren't stupid. Mine are even allowed to use ...scissors. eek!..."


That kind of over simplistic logic wouldn't get you a back bench seat on a Grade 8 debate team.

 

No matter, any pro-knife discussion became non sequitur after the first response was posted to this forum topic (the one where Jeremy clearly stated that knives should *not* be placed in caches). If you check the FAQ page, you'll find that it has indeed been amended accordingly ...so you either play by the rules, or you don't.

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quote:
Originally posted by eroyd:

How can one be charged for a felony if they "accidently or unknowingly" did something. In most FREE countries doesn't intent have to be proven.


 

That's the way the law is written.

 

Whether one agrees with the law or not is irrelevant. If you choose to fight it in a courtroom then go ahead.

 

========================================

Friends don't let Friends geocache drunk.

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quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:

quote:
Originally posted by eroyd:

"...Banning Knives eh! Maybe we should ban rope and shoe laces, we wouldn't want someone to hang themselves. How many people have been killed with a plastic bag and an elastic band? Better ban them too! Kids aren't stupid. Mine are even allowed to use ...scissors. eek!..."


 

That kind of over simplistic logic wouldn't get you a back bench seat on a Grade 8 debate team.

 

No matter, any pro-knife discussion became non sequitur after the first response was posted to this forum topic (the one where Jeremy clearly stated that knives should *not* be placed in caches). If you check the FAQ page, you'll find that it has indeed been amended accordingly ...so you either play by the rules, or you don't.


 

YEAH! This isn't about the freedom of our country, it's about the dictatorship we call geocaching! Just Kidding! Please don't start a flame war with me!! icon_frown.gif I'm sorry!

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

 

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure."

- Dan Quayle

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quote:
Originally posted by OlyHippy:

Wow, this topic is almost as useful as the "hand guns in caches" topic... icon_rolleyes.gif


 

That'll be the next topic of discussion! We will hear both sides' opinion and either disagree or agree. There will be a few fights about it, but mostly just well thought-out discussion. I am excited to hear both sides' opinion! I am also taking LSD, just like most of the people who argued in this thread like they're trying to prove a point to a bunch of people who don't care and will continue to put knives in caches anyways! Olyhippy, my message here as as useful as the rest of the messages in this topic! icon_wink.gif

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

 

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure."

- Dan Quayle

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quote:
Originally posted by The Delta-S Family:

My roommate's dog swallowed one once and nearly died. Cost nearly $2000 in vet bills to save the poor thing. I don't think the dog would have swallowed a knife, though.

 

The Bigg Family "Delta-S"


 

Funny that I should see this.....Today's Paper had an article in it about a dog swallowing a 12 inch steak knife.

 

There is nothing like a Packrat who is a geocacher.

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Better make sure all the sharp edges on your caches have been dulled. icon_wink.gificon_biggrin.gif See, just another reason why Tupperware is king (uh-oh, mixing controversy icon_rolleyes.gif). Keep smilin', I'm just havin' fun. icon_razz.gif

 

FWIW - We don't plan to use tupperware (personal choice), my 11 yr old has yet to cut himself with his new knife (did we not all cut ourselves when we first learned to use & respect this tool?), and inmates can find all sorts of ways to cause bodily harm (it's not the knife, they have to want to first).

 

I don't believe I'll be placing knives in any of my caches any time soon. Although I might place a card in caches redeemable for a small knife. icon_smile.gif

 

Usual Suspects - Terrapin & Bug

 

"Counting stars by candlelight, all are dim, but one is bright....."

Animated_MiGO_A88.gif

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My real concern is Mr Snazz's signature shot glasses. What if an inmate finds one in a cache, breaks it and uses it to attack the guards?

 

Ammo boxes are bad too. A prisoner can take one, hit his guard over the head with it and escape.

 

Nerf balls are even more dangerous. An inmate can take it and stuff it down the guard's throat to suffocate him.

 

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

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Their not guards. Guards protect something of value.

 

I don't care what the inmates find in the parks their working in. I'm more concerned that they lose it and cut your head off with the chainsaws, hedge clippers or lawn shears their working with.

 

BTW inmates are strip searched before they return to the camp.

 

39197_2700.jpg

I am the result of genetic manipulation of superior Geocacher DNA. Faster, stronger with superior reasoning and logic.

Mokita!

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Now after reading through this thread I have had to ask myself. Are nice new sharp fish-hooks in my fishing theme cache a good idea? I don't think you could cut off any body parts but for anyone that has got one in past the barb you know the story. I am going to put this cache back out this weekend so whats the opinion here. Should I leave the hooks or remove them?

 

Just remember. Getting there is half the fun...

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I wouldn't leave fish hooks loose in a cache container but if they were in packaging or in a case that should be safe enough. Wouldn't be much of a fishing cache without hooks, besides I haven't heard of anyone gaffing themselves in the sporting goods section of Walmart lately.

 

On the otherhand, some convict might turn one of those multi-pronged pike lures into a nasty weapon and hi-jack a school bus, but then thats my grade eight mentality working again. icon_wink.gif

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What's a "poket knive" anyway? icon_wink.gif

 

I had an official Boy Scout knife as a kid. My parents knew I had pocket knives. I think I even carried it to school with me. Times have changed, however. I have no problems with a responsible child having a knife but believe it should be with the parent / guardians knowledge.

 

The main problems with knives in caches has been pretty well stated. With the ongoing efforts to get Geocaching into state parks, I believe they should stay on the inappropriate list.

 

Even some of the well hidden caches have been stumbled on by clean up crews. I would hate to read on the news that a crime was committed with a knife that came out of a cache.

 

I will continue to remove ALL knives and inappropriate items from caches I find!

 

[This message was edited by st_richardson on April 11, 2003 at 02:02 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Radman Version 2.0:

quote:
Originally posted by OlyHippy:

Wow, this topic is almost as useful as the "hand guns in caches" topic... icon_rolleyes.gif


 

That'll be the next topic of discussion! We will hear both sides' opinion and either disagree or agree. ...


 

And I'm sure someone out there will argue it was a 5/5 cache and they didn't leave bullets.

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quote:
Are nice new sharp fish-hooks in my fishing theme cache a good idea? I don't think you could cut off any body parts but for anyone that has got one in past the barb you know the story. I am going to put this cache back out this weekend so whats the opinion here. Should I leave the hooks or remove them?

 

If they are packaged, then fine. Leave them. I'd love to find hooks in a cache. Having a handfull of loose hooks would be a very bad idea.

 

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

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Thanks for the input. They are in the original packaging so I guess I'll leave them...

 

KO

 

Just remember. Getting there is half the fun...

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Jeremy,

Thank you for your explaning why kinves cannot be in caches. I really identify with the prisoners issue. I have worked in a Psych hospital and many things can be used as a weapon. I found a knife on a trip hiking. Hopefully the people who are pressuring you are watching at all times.

L

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quote:
Originally posted by FamilyUnit:

Found cache full of pocket knives left handful of MC'D toys.

 

I sadly I agree with Jeremy and his stance.Again I feel that kids who geocache with parents are more responsible and informed then the average kids. The kids who geocache are informed like when I was in the boy scouts and club scouts. But, I get guess we allow our government come up with law and fines to protect stupid/informed people. Otherwise, they would just allow their kids to watch tv til their brain rotted out.

I'm outtie 5000 I found some caches with knives.. time for trades.. (hehe)

 

I'm glad I spent all my productive worktime browsing the forums today or I would haven't know!

Maybe you send an email to all geocachers cuz this is news to me.


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My first thought after reading a few posts was, geez.. I have found pocketknives in a few caches. If they were neat ones, I took them in trade. I have also seen ones that looked as if someone had used them for cleaning out their toenails and decided they would make a good cacheable. Not a big deal. EXCEPT! Jeremy has a very good point. We have actually hit a cache that an inmate found right before us. It sortof gave me the heeby-jeebies... He had no idea what geocaching was, and was pulling weeds and branches when he stumbled upon the cache. He wrote a friendly log and said when he ggot out someday he would like to see about what geocaching is... icon_confused.gif

 

Jeremy has a point. Why help arm anyone like that? Or, it could just be a group of 8 year olds that happen upon the cache. Granted, you can run across a sharp stick or even find a knife while wandering through undeveloped areas. I just don't think it would be a cool headline:

 

Inmate escapes by stabbing work crew supervisor with knife found in a geocache... Residents outraged. icon_eek.gif

 

Just a thought.jail.jpg

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