enfanta Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 My email to the approval folks sounding them out about a different sort of cache got this response: "Perhaps you should post this in the forums and see what others think? Considering the volume of caches and the amount of time it takes to approve them for listing, I would say no to one time caches." So here's the situation: I have been placing micro-caches on the way to other caches. I write down the coordinates on a specially prepared card and leave this card in the cache when I find it. The next cacher to the site has the option of taking the card and seeking the micro cache and when they find the micro, they take it with them. Thus, the name of the caches: Finder's Keepers. I would like to have a cache page for these micros so I have a place to say where all the unsought Finder's Keepers are and the finders can put another notch in their GPS. I can certainly understand how it is not worth the approver's time to bother with one-time caches, however, I tend to have two or three of these out at a time and I'm asking that the collective of Finder's Keepers be treated as *one* cache. One page for all the Finder's Keepers out there. (A note about the process. I average out 7-10 sets of coordinates for the cache, write those coords on a card explaining what the cache is and set a deadline for seeking it-- I don't want to leave these things out there indefinitely. Along with the card explaining Finder's Keepers, I include a pre-paid postcard for the seeker to send stating that they've either found it or they haven't and they need more clues. These cards go into an envelope and then into the cache when I find it. Then it's up to the next willing cacher to continue the process.) So what do you think? Should I get a cache page for these?? Quote Link to comment
+leatherman Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Very fun sounding side activity/game. Although I think you should make you own web page to support this game you created. You could have links to it in all your cache logs and forum posts. One time caches do not adhere to the elements of a cache. If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do. Mokita! Quote Link to comment
+The Cheeseheads Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I agree that you should not have each micro set up as a separate cache. Perhaps what you could do is set up something like the Photographer's Cache where the coordinates could change each time. When you place a new micro and put your card in a cache, you could change the coordinates to that of the cache that you hid your card in. When someone finds the micro, the log on the cache page. Then you place a new card and repeat. I guess if you put out several at once, you could make it an "unknown" cache and when someone finds the micro, they could also post the coordinates of the one they found. Either way, you would have just a single cache page that would get recycled for each micro. Obviously, people would have to be able to make multiple logs if they find more than one micro. This I would vote "yes" for. A separate page for each one that would get logged once and then archived, "no". - - - - - Wisconsin Geocaching Association Quote Link to comment
enfanta Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 quote: I agree that you should not have each micro set up as a separate cache. I do not want each micro set up as an individual cache. Also, I don't want to post the coordinates for each available FK on a web page because part of the point of this type of cache is to get other cachers out to the site. Sort of like a travel bug. Just wanted to clarify. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
+The Cheeseheads Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Are you planning on advertising that you placed a card somewhere, such as in your find log for the cache you placed it in, or is it just going to be luck that someone stumbles upon one? If you are announcing that you placed a card in a particular cache, then I'd support doing it in the style of the Photographer's Cache above where you would edit the cache coordinates each time to that of the cache you placed the card in. (Not the coordinates where you hid the micro.) - - - - - Wisconsin Geocaching Association Quote Link to comment
+Web-ling Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Why not place a PERMANENT physical cache, then have the finders of the temporary caches use that page to log also? You could keep the permanent cache supplied with cards with the temporary cache coords, as well as leaving the cards elsewhere. The permanent cache would essentially be the first leg of a 2-step multi, but with the second step being different every time. Quote Link to comment
enfanta Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 quote: Are you planning on advertising that you placed a card somewhere, such as in your find log for the cache you placed it in, or is it just going to be luck that someone stumbles upon one? I say in my on-line log that I've left one and if I could get a cache page for these, I'd note in which caches I've placed FK cards. But I wouldn't post coordinates to the web. They need to collect the card to find those. quote: If you are announcing that you placed a card in a particular cache, then I'd support doing it in the style of the Photographer's Cache above where you would edit the cache coordinates each time to that of the cache you placed the card in. (Not the coordinates where you hid the micro.) ummm, little awkward what with having a few out at once. I'll think on that. Quote Link to comment
+Markwell Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I also know from experience with a cacher in Portugal that the approvers will not approve any other caches similar to the Photographer's Caches. No clear reason was ever explained to me or the other cacher as to why other than "the system does not allow for that kind of cache at this time. Markwell's caches are it." Markwell Chicago Geocaching Quote Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I am reviving an old thread (see dates) because I myself just recently found one of these "Finder's Keepers" caches, and then subsequently found this thread. Let me tell you: WHAT FUN! I went out at my earliest convenience to seek it and it was hidden so well, I had to log a DNF. The monsoons which have been over this area made me wait a long time (about 2 weeks) before I had another opportunity. When finally it cleared, I went out again and struck gold. Got it! It was really a fun hunt - so fun that I went out to it 2x. I wouldn't do that for many geocaches I've found - some of the lamer ones leave me wondering why I went out even the 1 time. What's my point? I hope that as time has elapsed and this game has evolved, we can revisit the idea of approving this cache, in the form that enfanta envisioned in the first place. Maybe the admins feel differently now. Maybe some of the posters above feel differently now. Maybe a new reader will have the Ultimate Answer to this question. Who knows? -- I recognize fun when I see it. Quote Link to comment
+Huntnlady Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I'm so confused, (and I'm not even blonde.) Where do you post the original coordinates? And why would anyone want to keep the cache? I like the idea of new and creative caches though. Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 It would be easy enough to set up a site to handle them if you had your own webserver (which I do). One other alternative is to start a Finder's Keepers thread in The Hunt/The Unusual forum, or your local forum. Then you would just post forum entries when you dropped a card and people could add the thread to their forum notification list. You could periodically post unclaimed card lists to the thread. --Marky "All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr" Quote Link to comment
Micqn Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 The cache looks okay Enfanta, but I wouldn't approve it because you placed it! - 68 Don't Drink And Park: Accidents Cause People. Quote Link to comment
+Mopar Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Marky:It would be easy enough to set up a site to handle them if you had your own webserver (which I do). One other alternative is to start a _Finder's Keepers_ thread in http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=5726007311&f=6216058331 forum, or your local forum. Then you would just post forum entries when you dropped a card and people could add the thread to their forum notification list. You could periodically post unclaimed card lists to the thread. --Marky "All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr" Sorta like this thread? : Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon. Quote Link to comment
enfanta Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 I just want to make a couple points. The reason I want approval is so the finders of these caches can get credit for them. It's just like any other cache: they had to get the coords and seek the cache themselves. In fact, FK may be tougher than some caches 'cause there's no clue and most folks don't know what they're looking for until they've found it. Thank you all for your suggestions, however, I am not interested in changing the set-up. I am aware of all the work-arounds available to me: I simply don't want to use them. Some folks say these aren't caches because they're one-time only. Well, event caches are one time only and folks get to claim those. One argument I've heard against approval is that the approvers can't be sure I've set the caches in a legal space. These caches are set on the way to other caches. If the territory surrounding a cache is fragile or off-limits, perhaps we should re-think the placement of a regular cache there?? I'll continue to place my caches cause I like to and I hope people will continue to look for them. I just wish they could get proper credit when they find them. Care the Deception of Imitative Administrator Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Enfanta, I think that what you're doing is creative and I'm sure you're placing these caches in a responsible manner. And I'm happy to see that MissJenn and others enjoyed hunting for the finders keepers caches. As a geocacher I would love to find one too. But as the admin for your state, I can't approve the finders keepers caches to have thier own cache pages or to have a single cache page with the way you have it set up currently. If there was a permanent cache at a fixed location like Web-Ling suggested above, that could be approved. But a temporary cache that only one person can find, well that flunks the 'permanance' test found in the requirements/guidelines for placing a cache. Comparing this to an event cache doesn't work. If 50 people show up for the event, all of them can log a find. They have a reasonable expectation that if they show up at the picnic shelter at noon, the "cache" will be there. With your bonus caches, only the first person will find your card that says where the cache is hidden. I have followed your forum thread and I hope that you and the finders of these caches continue to have fun with them. It looks like MissJenn enjoyed finding what you hid because it was a challenge and it was different, not because she's obsessed about her find count. If you ever change your mind and want to alter how you have these set up you can just write to me through my profile, or post here. -------------------- Saving the day and approving all the caches... before bedtime! Quote Link to comment
+PSUPAUL Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Somewhat off topic, but I heard it bantered around that Enfanta or Miss Jenn were the Keystone Approver. This makes it seem that unless they are multiple personality disorder sufferers that like to discuss things between them then neither of them are the mysterious Keystone Approver. But then again, it could be a smoke screen to deflect suspicion. Enjoy! PSUPAUL of Team Geo-Remdation Quote Link to comment
enfanta Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 I'M THE APPROVER!?!?!?!? S W E E T !!!!! If you'll excuse me now, I have a few things to take care of... bwa ha ha ha!! Care the Deception of Imitative Administrator Quote Link to comment
+bigredmed Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Sounds like something I wanted to do for our recent Cache Bash. We set up a cache for the event and I set up 4 micros to radiate from the cache to hopefully keep going tothe edge of the continent if not further along certain radians. These were REJECTED! The thing I was told is that they are worried that the travelling caches will wind up in places they shouldn't be. The existing travelling caches seem to continue to travel around ok. I felt jipped by the rejection of my travelling micros. I would approve them but use a single cache page with the original coords and new coordinates added as part of the finds. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nebraskache/ Quote Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team Geo-Remdation:Somewhat off topic, but I heard it bantered around that Enfanta or Miss Jenn were the Keystone Approver. Paul, the real truth is that I am enfanta in disguise. - back to the topic - Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I am quite capable of having a dialogue with myself, without being diagnosed as having a multiple personality disorder. It's a woman's prerogative. - What was the topic again? - -------------------- Saving the day and approving all the caches (except my/her finders keepers)... before bedtime! Quote Link to comment
enfanta Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 quote:Saving the day and approving all the caches (except my/her finders keepers)... So you ADMIT it's a cache! And yet you won't approve it! Care the Deception of Imitative Administrator Quote Link to comment
+Polgara Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I support ya! Especially since i was with when you planted one! Maybe geocaching.com could make you the official finders keepers approver? Yeah, i like that. <giggle> "The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the Creator." - Louis Pasteur Quote Link to comment
solohiker Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I say if you have to bring it to the forum you may be too ate up with it. or You should post it to one of the other geocaching websites, because you are definitely ate up with it. YMMV Quote Link to comment
+retphoto Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Enfanta....I don't know if this will work, or if it is what you want? Can you place a cache, make it "home of the Finder's Keeper's" and you place your cards in there. A visitor to your Home cache gets a card and when they find it, they log it. it's Not the same cache so it shouldn't violate the logging the same cache twice policy. I don't know if that is what you want, or if it'll be allowed. Give me a Tall ship, and a Star to steer her bye... The White Fleet.... Quote Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by solohiker:I say if you have to bring it to the forum you may be too ate up with it. I disagree respectfully. She originally brought it up (note date of original thread) quite a long time ago, on the advice of the admin that disapproved of her cache. I revived the thread because I was just so thrilled to participate in it just over this last month. enfanta herself has been happy to do her own thing for 7 months now, bringing extra caching creativity to those who care to participate of their own accord. -- I recognize fun when I see it. Quote Link to comment
+bazzle Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 You might try something like this cache of mine She Feels Like A Remora. It is the same basic idea, the difference being that I ask that the extra containers I stash remain in the cache I place them in, but could just a easily be the twist you are using. Each "remora" contains offset info, distance and degrees, that need to be applied to the listed coordinate to find the actual cache. If you put out a physical cache, say an ammo can, with a logbook, you can put the coordinates in your Finders Keepers and then leave your notes as usual. Then when the hunter finds the F/K they take it, and have another cache they can find that will allow them to get credit for the F/K. You could even ask that the F/K be left in the permanent cache container and that way you can retrieve them and reuse later if you wish. Just a thought... My mind not only wanders... Sometimes it leaves completely... **Namaste** Quote Link to comment
enfanta Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Thank you all for your wonderful ideas. They entirely miss the point of the Finders Keepers. I will continue to set FKs until it's clear that people aren't seeking them. MissJenn, you've been a brick. You win the (unanncounced) Finders Keepers Post Card Decoration Contest, btw. Are we done now? Care the Deception of Imitative Administrator Quote Link to comment
+bazzle Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by enfanta:Thank you all for your wonderful ideas. They entirely miss the point of the Finders Keepers. ... OK I gotta ask... What IS the point of the Finders Keepers? My mind not only wanders... Sometimes it leaves completely... **Namaste** Quote Link to comment
+PSUPAUL Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Just too many great statements to comments on. Enfanta- you have my support. I just wish you would have placed some at the Red Rock event. PSUPAUL of Team Geo-Remdation Quote Link to comment
+Cat'N'Geo Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 All I can say is I hope some Finders keepers get to NC. Or I get to PA... They say this universe is bound to blow, I say we crank up the Calypso Control! ~Jimmy Buffett ~Someday I Will~ Quote Link to comment
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