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My issues around TNLN


Clan Ferguson

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Attention the following is my opinion not a personal attack on anyone.

 

If you TNLN weather alone or in a group, your not geocaching.

 

quote:
As quoted from the geocaching.com FAQ

What are the rules in Geocaching?

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

1. Take something from the cache

2. Leave something in the cache

3. Write about it in the logbook


 

Take and Leave that's what I am getting at.

Why or what you take or leave is up to you.

We do it as a marker of the journey. Kind of an monument to that cache and the adventure associated with it. We try to choose things that represent the cache, the location or some bit of the adventure. Our third cache was ravaged by anamils and weather so we took a pocket poncho with teeth marks in it. When we did a particulary dificult cache "ahh ahh MARKWELL" We took a small puzzle. you get the idea. We keep them in a box along with a card describing where it was retrived. We bring this out when we can't go caching so we can remanice or when people ask us what caching is all about.

 

I consider myself a bit of a purist. I always trade and I normally only hunt Normals and Multi Normals. I feel if we're not trading we might as well call this letter boxing. and just sign logs QJLWBS ( a joke my brother is fond of. It means "Quit Job, Left Wife, Bought Stamp" It was a refernece to our addiction and how we think the high finders are doing it)

 

I feel part of the degratation of a cache is that we nobody is willing to trade, then other folks after reading several TNLN in the log book, think there is no point in it, so they just hork the good stuff before its gone. then people come along and see nothing worth trading for then TNLN. and soon finders are complaining about the cache and people leaving trash in a cache.

 

Here's what I ask of TNLNer out there. Please trade even if that means buying one thing from the dollar store and trading for something in the cache then taking that to trade at the next cache. you don't have to keep it. Sort of a distrubit the wealth thing.

 

So please...

Trade up or trade down I don't care Just Trade.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

quote:
As quoted from the geocaching.com FAQ

What are the rules in Geocaching?

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

1. Take something from the cache

2. Leave something in the cache

3. Write about it in the logbook


 


 

Fair enough...from now on, if there's nothing I want to trade, I'll take an item anyway...and leave that same item right back in it. I like to obey the rules.

 

ApK

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

Attention the following is my opinion not a personal attack on anyone.

 

If you TNLN weather alone or in a group, your not geocaching.

 

I consider myself a bit of a purist. I always trade and I normally only hunt Normals and Multi Normals. I feel if we're not trading we might as well call this letter boxing. and just sign logs QJLWBS ( a joke my brother is fond of. It means "Quit Job, Left Wife, Bought Stamp" It was a refernece to our addiction and how we think the high finders are doing it)


Except that in letterboxing, you take an impression of a stamp and leave an impression of a stamp. Oh and you don’t use a GPS receiver to find the letterbox. icon_wink.gif

 

I think I’ll continue to mostly take memories and leave footprints.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

Attention the following is my opinion not a personal attack on anyone.

 

If you TNLN weather alone or in a group, your not geocaching.

 

I consider myself a bit of a purist. I always trade and I normally only hunt Normals and Multi Normals. I feel if we're not trading we might as well call this letter boxing. and just sign logs QJLWBS ( a joke my brother is fond of. It means "Quit Job, Left Wife, Bought Stamp" It was a refernece to our addiction and how we think the high finders are doing it)


Except that in letterboxing, you take an impression of a stamp and leave an impression of a stamp. Oh and you don’t use a GPS receiver to find the letterbox. icon_wink.gif

 

I think I’ll continue to mostly take memories and leave footprints.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

If you TNLN weather alone or in a group, your not geocaching.

Take and Leave that's what I am getting at.

Why or what you take or leave is up to you.


I don't get it. If I don't really want something from a cache, why should I have to take something from it? If I see nothing to my liking, it'd be better left for someone else that might want it - rather than me taking it and throwing it away on my way back to the car. icon_smile.gif

quote:
We do it as a marker of the journey. Kind of an monument to that cache and the adventure associated with it. We try to choose things that represent the cache, the location or some bit of the adventure. We keep them in a box along with a card describing where it was retrived.

I considered doing this, but I realized that once I got past a handful of found caches, I'd end up with a collection of toys, pencils, and McToys. I don't need any more boxes of "stuff" in my house, and my log entries and photos taken are all that I need to "revisit" any caches in my mind.

quote:
I feel part of the degratation of a cache is that we nobody is willing to trade, then other folks after reading several TNLN in the log book, think there is no point in it, so they just hork the good stuff before its gone.
Even if everyone traded items, as you suggest - that isn't going to stop someone from stealing from it. It doesn't matter if it was the original "good stuff" in the cache, or a whole bunch of new items that people had traded in and out of the cache... if someone wants to swipe "stuff", they'll swipe "stuff."

quote:
then people come along and see nothing worth trading for then TNLN. and soon finders are complaining about the cache and people leaving trash in a cache.

But, according to your mantra - they should be forced to take an item anyway? The way you put it, that is what you seem to be saying. I come to a cache, see nothing that I want - nothing worth trading for... so I TNLN. I wouldn't leave trash or complain about it - but I wouldn't feel bad if I didn't trade a pencil in for a dirty golfball with a split casing. icon_smile.gif

quote:
Here's what I ask of TNLNer out there. Please trade even if that means buying one thing from the dollar store and trading for something in the cache then taking that to trade at the next cache. So please... Trade up or trade down I don't care Just Trade.


Help me understand your reasoning... if people don't trade items at a cache, there will still be goodies for the next guy. And people don't steal caches because people haven't traded items in that cache. They steal cuz they want stuff. It doesn't matter if the items have been freshly traded in and out of caches.

 

I understand you having your own personal preference of trading and maybe even saving items as keepsakes, but I don't really see how people who TNLN are hurting anything at all. icon_smile.gif

 

toe.gif

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?
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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

If you TNLN weather alone or in a group, your not geocaching.

Take and Leave that's what I am getting at.

Why or what you take or leave is up to you.


I don't get it. If I don't really want something from a cache, why should I have to take something from it? If I see nothing to my liking, it'd be better left for someone else that might want it - rather than me taking it and throwing it away on my way back to the car. icon_smile.gif

quote:
We do it as a marker of the journey. Kind of an monument to that cache and the adventure associated with it. We try to choose things that represent the cache, the location or some bit of the adventure. We keep them in a box along with a card describing where it was retrived.

I considered doing this, but I realized that once I got past a handful of found caches, I'd end up with a collection of toys, pencils, and McToys. I don't need any more boxes of "stuff" in my house, and my log entries and photos taken are all that I need to "revisit" any caches in my mind.

quote:
I feel part of the degratation of a cache is that we nobody is willing to trade, then other folks after reading several TNLN in the log book, think there is no point in it, so they just hork the good stuff before its gone.
Even if everyone traded items, as you suggest - that isn't going to stop someone from stealing from it. It doesn't matter if it was the original "good stuff" in the cache, or a whole bunch of new items that people had traded in and out of the cache... if someone wants to swipe "stuff", they'll swipe "stuff."

quote:
then people come along and see nothing worth trading for then TNLN. and soon finders are complaining about the cache and people leaving trash in a cache.

But, according to your mantra - they should be forced to take an item anyway? The way you put it, that is what you seem to be saying. I come to a cache, see nothing that I want - nothing worth trading for... so I TNLN. I wouldn't leave trash or complain about it - but I wouldn't feel bad if I didn't trade a pencil in for a dirty golfball with a split casing. icon_smile.gif

quote:
Here's what I ask of TNLNer out there. Please trade even if that means buying one thing from the dollar store and trading for something in the cache then taking that to trade at the next cache. So please... Trade up or trade down I don't care Just Trade.


Help me understand your reasoning... if people don't trade items at a cache, there will still be goodies for the next guy. And people don't steal caches because people haven't traded items in that cache. They steal cuz they want stuff. It doesn't matter if the items have been freshly traded in and out of caches.

 

I understand you having your own personal preference of trading and maybe even saving items as keepsakes, but I don't really see how people who TNLN are hurting anything at all. icon_smile.gif

 

toe.gif

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?
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If you had read down a little further in the FAQ, you would also have found this:

 

In its simplest form a cache can be just a logbook and nothing else.

 

I almost always trade items (or leave something and take nothing, if the cache's current state is a bit on the meager side). However, there are times when it's necessary to just TNLNSL. Caching often requires stealth, and there are times when it's more prudent to just sign the log and clear the area. And on more than one occasion, I've discovered a cache just as it's started to rain. Rather than let the cache contents get soaked while I rummage around for something to trade, I felt it was better to sign the log quickly, and reseal the container.

 

3608_1400.gif

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By that logic, we are just as wrong (or at least half as wrong) when we TN but leave something to improve the cache. I do the TNLN unless there is something I want in the cache and in that case I always trade up. Usually it only takes an item worth $1 - $2 to be considered trading up in most of the caches I have found. But, why should I leave a nice item in a cache full of McCrap if I don't want anything in the cache. If there is a cheapo item in a cache that I do want (for example, I will take anything with an alligator on it), I will still leave a good item in trade to make the cache better. However, it is the overall responsibility of the cache owner to maintain their cache, if everyone trades up, it is not a problem. Plus if everyone traded up and caches started out with good stuff, then they would stay stocked with good stuff.

 

If you are suggesting that we must always trade, then I would have one crappy item that I just keep trading out. (Crappy items make for crappy memories, so I don't want to keep them, pics, etc make for much better memories for me.) This would have the result of the crap just floating between caches, and since you suggest the point of taking an item is for the memory, then this would still not be happening.

 

In reality, this is a personel decision. If you want to always trade and set up a display of your finds to bring back memories, more power to you. Personnally, I keep an ammo can with the items that I like in it. It is always neat to show new cachers some of the things I have found.

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The down side for TNLN by others is that once a cache is placed, it may not get maintained very often. I have been to caches with McToys, etc and there is a log with 5 entries of TNLN. The caches only stay nice when trades happen that result in good stuff staying behind in the cache. I can see the point that to TNLN is to abdicate our role to sustain the caches we visit.

 

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

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quote:
Orignally Posted by Clan Ferguson

 

Attention the following is my opinion not a personal attack on anyone


 

Let me repeat My opinion. and before you say it, I know thoses are just your Opinions.

 

quote:
Orignally Posted by Whidbey Walk

 

Except that in letterboxing, you take an impression of a stamp and leave an impression of a stamp. Oh and you don’t use a GPS receiver to find the letterbox


 

You leave a Sig same as a stamp. what you take is up to you. Okay ditch the GPS grab a Compass and a Topo and follow those clues. Hey it would up the difficulty. icon_wink.gif

 

Rubbertoe,

 

Who said steal. I used the word hork to display folks who always trade down. I didn't say take it home I said thats what I did. I am suggesting rotating items you take from cache A put it in cache B. You know Kinda like a travel bug.

By the way our Treasure chest has more then one "dirty golf ball or broken pencil". Most Caches I've come across were log says TNLN are usally a bit lacking. I suggest if things moved around then the items in the cache would always look fresh and might encourge the next guy to trade.

 

Prime Suspect,

 

We carry a compact umbrella in our pack for just such an occasion.

 

------------

 

I am not Suggesting that you have to keep the items and if your not helping maintain a cache by removing water logged, trash, moldy items your not helping the comunity either. I am not suggesting imposing you defination of Cacheable items. But come on you've never opened one and found a gum wrapper or cig butt.

 

Bigredmed,

Right On!

 

If we find a cache thats thin on tradables we always leave double.

 

Not saying you have to do any of this. it is just my opinion. and my feelings about caching. If you want to do else wise GO FOR IT!!! to rip off Forest Gump,

 

Cachers are, As cachers do.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

 

[This message was edited by Clan Ferguson on September 24, 2002 at 02:29 PM.]

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quote:
Orignally Posted by Clan Ferguson

 

Attention the following is my opinion not a personal attack on anyone


 

Let me repeat My opinion. and before you say it, I know thoses are just your Opinions.

 

quote:
Orignally Posted by Whidbey Walk

 

Except that in letterboxing, you take an impression of a stamp and leave an impression of a stamp. Oh and you don’t use a GPS receiver to find the letterbox


 

You leave a Sig same as a stamp. what you take is up to you. Okay ditch the GPS grab a Compass and a Topo and follow those clues. Hey it would up the difficulty. icon_wink.gif

 

Rubbertoe,

 

Who said steal. I used the word hork to display folks who always trade down. I didn't say take it home I said thats what I did. I am suggesting rotating items you take from cache A put it in cache B. You know Kinda like a travel bug.

By the way our Treasure chest has more then one "dirty golf ball or broken pencil". Most Caches I've come across were log says TNLN are usally a bit lacking. I suggest if things moved around then the items in the cache would always look fresh and might encourge the next guy to trade.

 

Prime Suspect,

 

We carry a compact umbrella in our pack for just such an occasion.

 

------------

 

I am not Suggesting that you have to keep the items and if your not helping maintain a cache by removing water logged, trash, moldy items your not helping the comunity either. I am not suggesting imposing you defination of Cacheable items. But come on you've never opened one and found a gum wrapper or cig butt.

 

Bigredmed,

Right On!

 

If we find a cache thats thin on tradables we always leave double.

 

Not saying you have to do any of this. it is just my opinion. and my feelings about caching. If you want to do else wise GO FOR IT!!! to rip off Forest Gump,

 

Cachers are, As cachers do.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

 

[This message was edited by Clan Ferguson on September 24, 2002 at 02:29 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:

The down side for TNLN by others is that once a cache is placed, it may not get maintained very often. The caches only stay nice when trades happen that result in good stuff staying behind in the cache.


This just doesn't make sense to me. How can the cache get "worse" when no trading is taking place? If it is stocked with good stuff when it is originally placed, and the first 5 people TNLN - the cache is STILL going to have good stuff in it for the next guy!

 

toe.gif

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?
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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

Who said steal. I used the word hork to display folks who always trade down.


I think you'll find most people would think you meant stealing. Horking, however it is spelled - it usually means swiping or stealing in any instance that I've heard it. That's why I assumed that is what you meant.

quote:
I didn't say take it home I said thats what I did. I am suggesting rotating items you take from cache A put it in cache B. You know Kinda like a travel bug.

Well, this isn't an every day thing for me... I might not look for a cache for a long time after finding one. I don't wanna be holding onto cache stuff when I didn't really wanna take anything in the first place.

 

Fwiw, I usually do trade items - because so far most of the caches I've found have had something that I wanted to take for one reason or another. But I don't look at TNLN'ers as any less of a geocacher than you or I. icon_smile.gif

quote:
But come on you've never opened one and found a gum wrapper or cig butt.

Here, look at the stuff that was left in one of my caches that I archived... (cache remains) I don't think many people would want to take anything from that selection... well, maybe someone would want the broken eyeglasses frame. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

And, just so you note - that wasn't the original contents of the cache when I hid it. It was the result of people "trading" items. If everyone would have TNLN it would still have the good stuff I originally stocked it with. icon_wink.gif

 

I stand by my theory that a cache's natural death is either from theft, or from being filled up with enough crap that a cache owner will just archive it... and I still don't think TNLN'ers are hurting anything. It is as if they didn't even visit the cache - how can that be hurting the cache?? icon_razz.gif

 

icon_smile.gif

 

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on September 24, 2002 at 03:02 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

Who said steal. I used the word hork to display folks who always trade down.


I think you'll find most people would think you meant stealing. Horking, however it is spelled - it usually means swiping or stealing in any instance that I've heard it. That's why I assumed that is what you meant.

quote:
I didn't say take it home I said thats what I did. I am suggesting rotating items you take from cache A put it in cache B. You know Kinda like a travel bug.

Well, this isn't an every day thing for me... I might not look for a cache for a long time after finding one. I don't wanna be holding onto cache stuff when I didn't really wanna take anything in the first place.

 

Fwiw, I usually do trade items - because so far most of the caches I've found have had something that I wanted to take for one reason or another. But I don't look at TNLN'ers as any less of a geocacher than you or I. icon_smile.gif

quote:
But come on you've never opened one and found a gum wrapper or cig butt.

Here, look at the stuff that was left in one of my caches that I archived... (cache remains) I don't think many people would want to take anything from that selection... well, maybe someone would want the broken eyeglasses frame. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

And, just so you note - that wasn't the original contents of the cache when I hid it. It was the result of people "trading" items. If everyone would have TNLN it would still have the good stuff I originally stocked it with. icon_wink.gif

 

I stand by my theory that a cache's natural death is either from theft, or from being filled up with enough crap that a cache owner will just archive it... and I still don't think TNLN'ers are hurting anything. It is as if they didn't even visit the cache - how can that be hurting the cache?? icon_razz.gif

 

icon_smile.gif

 

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on September 24, 2002 at 03:02 PM.]

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I'll have to disagree with my neighbor to the east on this one. While in its purist form, Geocaching might involve trading, we have all taken our own individual aspects of the game that we like and made this our own. That's what makes it great.

 

Some people search virtuals, some search locationless (ugh!), some only regulars, or only multis, etc., etc., etc.

 

I only trade when my kids are along, as it's a motivation for them to go out and look for the box. Otherwise, I'll just leave the good stuff for others to trade. I've got too much clutter in my life as it is.

 

If you as a "purist" want to always trade something, that's fine, but I'll still TNLN.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:

The down side for TNLN by others is that once a cache is placed, it may not get maintained very often. The caches only stay nice when trades happen that result in good stuff staying behind in the cache.


This just doesn't make sense to me. How can the cache get "worse" when no trading is taking place? If it is stocked with good stuff when it is originally placed, and the first 5 people TNLN - the cache is STILL going to have good stuff in it for the next guy!


 

Its not so much that it doesn't get worse each time someone TNLN's, but heres the deal, the cache didn't get worse instantaneously either. Sometimes a family visits and the kids each trade for some item with a McToy, then I come along a few days later, and well it sucks to be me (trade a pocket knife for a busted McToy). More often its a series of down trades that leaves a cache full of "geotrash" and then I come along to see a box full of mormon bookmarks and 5 TNLN logs. My choice, trade WAY down (no offense to our friends in the LDS) or TNLN also. I feel bad cleaning out a cache since the owner may like it like that, but I don't want to spend my money for trade items to fill other people's caches (expensive enough filling my own.)

 

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

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My feeling is people can cache as they want and trade as they want. I've always had my son on all cache hunts so far, and he has always wanted to trade. On one cache he actually wanted an empty dispenser that the listerine strips come in... never figured that out, but oh well!

 

The reason I like the idea of trading is A - extra "proof" on top of the logbook that I found the cache, I don't want anyone to ever have any doubt; and B - it keeps cache items circulating. I get some enjoyment knowing someone liked what I left and saw it worthy of keeping or forwarding to another cache. And I assume a lot of other traders do the same.

 

Save our forests, wipe your *** with a tree-hugger.

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TNLN/TNLNSL is a trademark of this team. What could possibly be left in a cache that would interest us. We are past the age where we would want any more teeny Beanie Babys, McToys or PowerPuff stickers. I don't believe that this should be an issue for anybody. The value of the cache remains unchanged after our visits. I do carry a pocket of prized golf balls for insistant cache owners just in case. Havn't we visited this issue before? icon_rolleyes.gif

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TNLN/TNLNSL is a trademark of this team. What could possibly be left in a cache that would interest us. We are past the age where we would want any more teeny Beanie Babys, McToys or PowerPuff stickers. I don't believe that this should be an issue for anybody. The value of the cache remains unchanged after our visits. I do carry a pocket of prized golf balls for insistant cache owners just in case. Havn't we visited this issue before? icon_rolleyes.gif

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I always find the concept of the geocache “trade” from a material perspective very confusing. People often act as if they are somehow cheated if the cache contents have little material value (particularly if it was a difficult cache to find) even though to obtain any of the contents they still have to leave something of equal or greater value. Its kind of like they would feel happier trading 4 quarters for a crisp dollar bill, than 5 cents for a nickle, even though both trades put them into exactly the same position (from a material perspective). I myself would much prefer the letterboxing concept where the trades (impressions of stamps) have no material value, but all players participate. Its kind of like kids trading and collecting baseball cards - little value but lots of fun and challenge. I think inexpensive personalized signature items that players can collect work like this. Everyone can play the game as they wish (including TNLN) but I think the game would be improved if players recognized that there is little material benefit to the honest trade, and emphasized instead intangible values when stocking caches and making trades.

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

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SR, my wife, still being a child at heart and a pure soul likes to trade as she finds some of these things cute and/or adorable. I, being a broken toy and jaded find very little cute and adorable. Therefore, when we go geocaching, she trades things that she finds cute or fuzzy. It reminds her of her childhood. If I go geocaching alone, i never take anything as i dont find these things the least bit inviting. In fact, i have never found anything IN the cache at all inviting. My enjoyment comes from the journey and the challange of finding the cache. I leave my handwritten log entry and a small calling card as evidence of my being there. In effect, i have left my experince in the annals of the caches history. I dont like trading and i wont trade. PLEASE DONT TRY TO IMPRESS YOUR "OPINIONS" ON THE REST OF US. IF ITS OK TO DO ELSE WISE, AS YOU PUT IT, THEN WHY BRING IT UP.

SR and dboggny. my mother in law rides a broom!

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

Pointless rebuttle

 

quote:
Orignally Posted by Clan Ferguson

 

Attention the following is my opinion not a personal attack on anyone


 

Let me repeat My opinion. and before you say it, I know thoses are just your Opinions.


 

Geesh...maybe a full page ad in your own news paper would make you less defensive than a public forum?

 

ApK

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Took Nothing Left Nothing Signed Log! In the begining I was a trading fool, but after a while I just gave it up unless I had the children with me. I only judge a cache by it's placement, not what's in it. For me it's the hunt, the memories and the stories I take back home with me to share with who ever will listen.

 

just my little 2 cents

 

Pepper

 

Horizontals where it's at!

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man,

 

if it works for you, than do it, but if it doesn't, then don't make it part of your hobby.

 

i try to leave kid-friendly stuff in caches, and sometimes i trade for stuff that i think might have some emotional value, but more often than not, i TNLN.

 

except when i've got the granddaughter with me -- then i try to find kid friendly caches so she can trade.

 

Marty Fouts

ae6ip

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Most of the time I TNLN unless the cache has something I absolutely cannot live without. When I do trade, I always leave more than I take. I've got a baggy full of compasses, whistles, match cases, and flashlights for just such an event.

 

Why do I TNLN? Here is a partial list of contents from a cache I found this weekend:

 

2 free AOL cd's

Someone's expired fishing license

A hotel keycard

A Washington DC subway card(the cache was in Ohio)

A torn and dirty map of Montreal

A Bernard Gilkey baseball card

$738 in Monopoly money

A coupon for free admission to a local zoo (coupon expired in 1996!!!!!!)

Dairy Queen coupons (expired in 1998!!!)

 

TNLN

 

Now where did I park my car??????? monkes.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

 

I consider myself a bit of a purist. I always trade and I normally only hunt Normals and Multi Normals.


 

As a purist you would know that the terms are Traditional cache and multi-cache. Sometimes I trade, sometimes I TNLN, and sometimes I take nothing and leave something. I always sign the book, and if there isn't one, I try to post a picture as proof of the visit.

 

This is how I choose to play, and I don't see anything wrong with the way I'm doing it. As long as the cache isn't being harmed then you should do whatever floats your boat.

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

 

I consider myself a bit of a purist. I always trade and I normally only hunt Normals and Multi Normals.


 

I'd consider a purists someone who hunts with only the coordinates. No description, no difficulty ratings, and no hints..... How pure are you?

 

george

 

You know it's a steep climb when the nose of you bike seat hits you in that special spot.

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quote:
From GC FAQ:

What is Geocaching?

Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game……..All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache.

From stash note:

The only rules are: if you take something from the cache, you must leave something for the cache, and you must write about your visit in the logbook.


Humm……Sounds optional to me.

icon_confused.gif

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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quote:
From GC FAQ:

What is Geocaching?

Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game……..All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache.

From stash note:

The only rules are: if you take something from the cache, you must leave something for the cache, and you must write about your visit in the logbook.


Humm……Sounds optional to me.

icon_confused.gif

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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When I hide a cache, I try to seed it with at least one $5-10 dollar item that will tempt even the purest TNLN cacher to trade. (I left a collectors Monopoly watch once.) Sort of a first find reward. I like to see the surprise comments from finders.

 

On the the other hand, some or my caches are too small to put in many items.

 

I like a little souvenir from time to time and for my 8 year old trading is part of the game.

 

All that said, I still will TNLN from time to time and have no problem with others doing the same.

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I see a lot of the same stuff make the rounds in the local caches. It seems like people take something from the cache and put somthing in from the last cache they found. This kind of item swapping stagnates the cache goodies and makes people wonder why they should trade items at all. I bring items to trade but I will only trade if I find somthing that holds interest. By that I mean somthing I couldn't buy in a store.

Sometimes trading just seems stupid. Lets say you start your caching day with a brand new Duncan yo-yo and a 2 pack of AA lithiums as your trade items. In cache number one you find :

2 free AOL cd's

Someone's expired fishing license

A hotel keycard

An out of state subway card

A torn and dirty map of Montreal

A Bernard Gilkey baseball card

$738 in Monopoly money

An expired coupon for free admission to a local zoo

Expired Dairy Queen coupons

 

Hmmm. What to trade, what to trade? It all seems so tempting. In your moral confusion you TNLN and continue on.

 

Opening cache number two reveals:

 

A balloon

A superball with a chunk of super missing.

A Cracker Jack box fake tatoo

A used shoestring

A Chuck E. Cheese pencil with broken eraser

One pink furry slipper (you think I'm making this up?)

 

Yet another quandry. Do you decide to bless this cache with a true prize all the while knowing that the next person will snatch it up only to replace it with a clothespin? Hmmm.

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

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quote:

Yet another quandry. Do you decide to bless this cache with a true prize all the while knowing that the next person will snatch it up only to replace it with a clothespin? Hmmm.


 

I came across one nearly like that the other day. My son took one half broken item, I took a used lightstick, and we placed 3 good items. I also noted in the log the cache needed some attention to the contents.

 

It may not help, but until someone, either the person that should be maintaining it or another cacher, sets an example by leaving something, it will probably remain as it is.

 

Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.

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If I take nothing, it is usually a commentary on the contents of the cache. I'll always leave a few nice items however to spice up the cache for the next finder. I'll do this unless I forgot my bag of goodies, or if the cache is in such poor shape that anything I put in it would be ruined soon anyway.

 

Anyway, with cachers like Stayfloopy and Bassoonpilot in this area, 90 percent of the caches have Wheresgeorge bills and those are always good to swap out.

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All I'm hearing here is 'maintain your cache' I agree thats what needs to happen. Not place it out there once and forget about it just for the sake of placing one. I like the idea that the harder you make a cache the nicer it stays. I plan on making that a point with the first cache I place. Now if I could just find the money for the parts. Ammo boxes are rather cheap and I really like the 'waterproof geocache log books' they are very nice.

 

Ok I don't know what that was about but hey.

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by umc:

Originally posted by umc in the other TNLN thread:

 

quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

I feel if we're not trading we might as well call this letter boxing.


 

That was my line. I know I know you are just borrowing it. Thats ok, go ahead. icon_razz.gif


 

Um, from what I can tell - you used that line (in the other tnln poll thread) 10 hours after CF used it in his original post here. Maybe I missed something?

 

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Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?
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quote:
Originally posted by umc:

Originally posted by umc in the other TNLN thread:

 

quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

I feel if we're not trading we might as well call this letter boxing.


 

That was my line. I know I know you are just borrowing it. Thats ok, go ahead. icon_razz.gif


 

Um, from what I can tell - you used that line (in the other tnln poll thread) 10 hours after CF used it in his original post here. Maybe I missed something?

 

toe.gif

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?
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quote:
Originally posted by umc:

Originally posted by umc in the other TNLN thread:

 

quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

I feel if we're not trading we might as well call this letter boxing.


 

That was my line. I know I know you are just borrowing it. Thats ok, go ahead. icon_razz.gif


 

Um, from what I can tell - you used that line (in the other tnln poll thread) 10 hours after CF used it in his original post here. Maybe I missed something?

 

toe.gif

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?
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Um, from what I can tell - you used that line (in the other tnln poll thread) 10 hours _after_ CF used it in his original post here. Maybe I missed something?

 

Ok so I need to learn how to tell time. dadgum I suck. So sorry for stealing your line and I am not as clever as I thought.

 

Sorry again.

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

Here, look at the stuff that was left in one of my caches that I archived... http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/3494_200.jpg I don't think many people would want to take anything from that selection...


 

Er, I could be mistaken, RT, but it appears you have a much-coveted Victory Mike handmade chainmail keychain there. Those are prized signature items in Michigan.

 

umc, we may have solved your problem.

 

Which makes an interesting on-topic point. RubberToe thought he had a bunch of junk, yet here's something valued highly by many cachers elsewhere. Someone trading for that item because they thought it was junk might have just deprived someone who really would have wanted it from getting it.

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

 

[This message was edited by dinoprophet on September 25, 2002 at 08:52 AM.]

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I have yet to place a cache, the reason for which I discussed in another forum. My thought is once I place it, maintaining it involves making sure it is still there if someone can't find it, pulling out any food or dangerous items and making sure there is a log book to sign. If it is also a hiders job to make sure there is nice stuff to trade it would be a money pit.

Some cachers grab every nice item out of a cache, so the cache would have to be restocked after that one find. With the exception of a few people that trade nice items, it would have to be at least be restocked every 10 visits or so .

I think it is the responsibility of the finders to make sure they aren't degrading the cache.

 

cool_shades.gif ---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.

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quote:
Originally posted by umc:

Um, from what I can tell - you used that line (in the other tnln poll thread) 10 hours _after_ CF used it in his original post here. Maybe I missed something?

 

Ok so I need to learn how to tell time. dadgum I suck. So sorry for stealing your line and I am not as clever as I thought.

 

Sorry again.

 

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/


 

Don't need to apoligize to me I didn't accuse you of theft.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

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quote:
Some cachers grab every nice item out of a cache, so the cache would have to be restocked after that one find. With the exception of a few people that trade nice items, it would have to be at least be restocked every 10 visits or so .

 

I have over 30 caches placed, most of which are real caches. I've yet to encounter a geocacher who took

all the good stuff during their visit. The degradation of the cache occurs over time, with about 10-15 visits being the usual number where I find it needs "re-seeding".

 

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Keller

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Here we are arrived at the cache.

We open it and... yuck another pile of McCrap!

 

OK, some thoughts:

 

1. If you had a really nice house and a rusted-out car in the front lawn, what do you think observers would say, that the nice house tends to make the car not so bad, or that the car destroys the aesthetic of the house? Uh-huh, me too.

A cache with trash in it is a trashy cache. For this reason, all crap trades into the cache tend to degrade the cache, in no small part because they send a signal that this is a place where you put your McCrap. It's called the "broken windows" effect.

 

2. For this reason we shouldn't necessarily tolerate McCrap. Now again, by McCrap I don't mean toys for kids and I don't mean even McToys provided they are unopened. I mean the sort of things we are talking about - things that can't conceivably be attractive to anyone except some small child.

 

3. Should caches have things for kids in them? Definitely. Nice, new things, not beaten up old things. I don't have kids but basically the question I ask when I take my nieces and nephews with me is: would I feel comfortable if they put this in their mouth?

 

4. Why not take McCrap from the cache just for the sake of trading and then swap it into another cache? For my money because that makes me a carrier of the McCrap virus. Maybe I didn't originally put the McCrap in, but no-one in the next cache will be able to tell the difference. By trading McCrap I am perpetuating the very thing I wish to stop.

 

5. OK, why not trade something nice for McCrap? I'll be honest, I have done that - in a case where the McCrap was so dismal that I felt it was no good to anyone, so I was trading as part of my "cache in, trash out" policy. But more often I don't, in the hopes that at some point the cache will hit whatever its McCrap limit is, that the next McCrapper will realize what they are doing, or at the very least that I won't continue to perpetuate the practise by validating McCrapping through a series of meritorious trades that would look familiar to certain native land negotiators from the 17th century.

 

6. For me, TNLN is an editorial comment, as is TN left something.

 

7. At the end of the day, whose responsibility is this? As a hobby it is each of our responsibilities, but in the individual cache it is the owners. So while I try to trade up, I don't feel it is my responsibility to clean up caches other than my own, which I try to seed with decent stuff and keep that way.

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quote:
Originally posted by dinoprophet:

Er, I could be mistaken, RT, but it appears you have a much-coveted Victory Mike handmade chainmail keychain there. Those are prized signature items in Michigan.


 

Actually, it was made by another Lancaster Ohio geocacher - that was one of the things I actually kept for myself. I believe it is still hanging in my keybox with my extra motorcycle keys on it. icon_smile.gif I believe I dropped the pencils and stickers into another cache, and I just threw out the golf ball and broken glasses frames. I didn't mean to imply that everything left was junk - I was just noticing the remarkable difference in this stuff, from what I had originally stocked it with. icon_smile.gif

 

Again, I never really look to find out who traded for what - I don't care to judge people on how they trade, and I don't blame anyone in particular for caches that turn to crap. It's just gonna happen, and that's okay. icon_smile.gif

 

quote:
December 26, 2001 by jburgess (20 found)

 

Nice cache! and a beautiful day! Was trying out my new GPS Companion (the GPS plugin for the Handspring Visor PDA) Found the cache with no problem. I live about 2 miles away and have been there many times, but didn't have a GPS to find it until now. It started snowing just as I got there and the view through the snow was absolutely incredible! I took one of the Pokemon, and left a bouncy ball, and a chain maille keychain that I made myself. This was my first cache. Great job, and thanks for making me exercise!


 

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Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?
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quote:
Originally posted by dinoprophet:

Er, I could be mistaken, RT, but it appears you have a much-coveted Victory Mike handmade chainmail keychain there. Those are prized signature items in Michigan.


 

Actually, it was made by another Lancaster Ohio geocacher - that was one of the things I actually kept for myself. I believe it is still hanging in my keybox with my extra motorcycle keys on it. icon_smile.gif I believe I dropped the pencils and stickers into another cache, and I just threw out the golf ball and broken glasses frames. I didn't mean to imply that everything left was junk - I was just noticing the remarkable difference in this stuff, from what I had originally stocked it with. icon_smile.gif

 

Again, I never really look to find out who traded for what - I don't care to judge people on how they trade, and I don't blame anyone in particular for caches that turn to crap. It's just gonna happen, and that's okay. icon_smile.gif

 

quote:
December 26, 2001 by jburgess (20 found)

 

Nice cache! and a beautiful day! Was trying out my new GPS Companion (the GPS plugin for the Handspring Visor PDA) Found the cache with no problem. I live about 2 miles away and have been there many times, but didn't have a GPS to find it until now. It started snowing just as I got there and the view through the snow was absolutely incredible! I took one of the Pokemon, and left a bouncy ball, and a chain maille keychain that I made myself. This was my first cache. Great job, and thanks for making me exercise!


 

toe.gif

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?
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