+wimseyguy Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 OK before you go racing back in time and searching to Markwell me on this one at least read it to the end, please. Went after one of Paintfiction's nasty urban micros last night. After reading the logs I knew exactly where to look-inside a 6" square hollow commercial signpost. The access is through a cutout that was used for electrical connection but no longer. I felt the magnetic box and as I contorted my arm to remove it I dropped it down the hole. The hole is deeper that I could reach, and after two trips to Lowe's (only .5 miles away) to get recovery gear it is still down the hole. I emailed the owner, and posted a "should be temporarly archived" note online. I offered to replace the container, but have not gotten a reply. Meanwhile I got an elbow in the ribs email from a local cacher. "Did you drop it in the hole?" After a brief e-correspondence he suggested I not replace the container, as he had already dropped the original and replace it with one of his own. So is this a find? No I did not sign the log. Yes I did find the container and had it in hand for a few seconds. Should we recommend this cache be permanantly archived? These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes; Nothing remains quite the same. Through all of the islands and all of the highlands, If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 It's not a find because you didn't sign the logbook. As for what should be done about the cache, wait for the owner to answer your e-mail. I'd expect he'd either ask you to replace the container, or offer to replace it with one himself. Only if you received no response to repeated inquiries should the "cache should be archived" button be pressed, in my opinion. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips Quote Link to comment
+GeneralBracket Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 If it were me, I'd post a note, but I WOULD'NT log it as a find. If the container is being consistantly dropped into a hole where it cannot be recovered, I'd certainly recommend to the owner that it be fixed or archived. But then it occurs to me that if enough containers are dropped then eventually the hole will fill up and this won't be a problem. Quote Link to comment
BalloonChasers Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I have seen this same question in one form or another over the past few weeks, and I keep wondering isn't this an individual sport/hobby? This decision should be between you and the owner of the cache. Just my opinion. Count it how you like. Quote Link to comment
+Markwell Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 My vote: NOTE. You didn't completely recover the cache, but not because you couldn't. See this cache's recent history, starting on April 10 for a similar situtation. And no I don't think I would have logged this one as "found" either. Markwell Chicago Geocaching Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 So if I do replace the container with a new log then I get the find? Hmmm.... I do like to see smiley faces not frowns in my page. This cache has been in play for all of a week and this has happened twice already. I remember reading about the cache that Markwell Markwelled. That was an adventure. My moment of shame was a little more public, as Paintfiction likes to hide his in very public places. This is on a pretty busy road. I also remember something related to car theft and insurance fraud that Gen. Bracket alludes to happening in Miami. Thanks for the flameless opinions so far. . These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes; Nothing remains quite the same. Through all of the islands and all of the highlands, If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane Quote Link to comment
+Gaddiel Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I vote for NOTE as well. Since you didn't sign the logbook, it's not a "find", but since you held it in your hand (presumeably), it's not a "couldn't find". Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 It's up to the caches owner as to a find. It looks like a bad spot for a cache and that should be fixed regardless. Still I love the paradox. In my book it's a not a find unless it was impossible to recover the container. If it's impossible then it would be a find and I wouldn't lose any sleep over the find. Losing sleep because I knocked it down the hole is another story. ===================== Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+TEAM 360 Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Not a find. Just post a note, that way you don't get a frown face in the record book if you don't want one. Someday someone is gonna find a bunch of caches when they tear that down.... Quote Link to comment
+Jamie Z Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Not a find.. since retrieving the cache was part of the challenge... and, um.. you messed up. Jamie Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 A not found in my book, but a great effort. "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln Quote Link to comment
+worldtraveler Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Once you retrieve it and log your find (that's what you're going to do - right?), stuff a large sponge in the hole so the container won't be lost again when the next finder drops it. Worldtraveler Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Per request of the cache owner,I have replaced the cache with a container of my own.I logged in everyone who posted online, as well as myself. So, now it is a FIND. It should be puzzling to the next few finders to see the same handwriting on the first five logg-ins! Do these discussions of the definition of 'find' make anyone else think back to the line:" Define the word 'the'"? These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes; Nothing remains quite the same. Through all of the islands and all of the highlands, If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane Quote Link to comment
+Shoebox Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Is there any way to install it with a chain having a magnet on one end and the cache on the other? That way the cache can be retrieved without removing the magnet and the next finder won't face the same problem. The cache will always be secure. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment
+DeerChaser & Company Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I would have logged it as a find. You are not responsible for the location. The cache was placed in a bad spot, no way to recover if dropped. Not your fault. He should have foreseen the hazard and attached something to it just in case. Rino 110 MeriGreen 128 Quote Link to comment
+lostinjersey Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 quote:Originally posted by DeerChaser & Poni:I would have logged it as a find. You are not responsible for the location. The cache was placed in a bad spot, no way to recover if dropped. Not your fault. He should have foreseen the hazard and attached something to it just in case. Me too Realizing I'm in the minority here, but this is a very unique circumstance. Generally the criteria is "did you put your hands on the container?" and generally if the answer is yes, then the other criteria (signing the logbook) isnt an issue. you found it. it was in your possession you just weren't able to sign. thats a find IMHO. Quote Link to comment
gazetteer Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 No need to replace the cache just leave a note that the difficulty is now a five+. Quote Link to comment
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