Has anyone used the military GPSr (PLGR) ?

[+TeamBoonieHat]

Was wondering if anybody has had the pleasure (read frustration) of using the military GPSr called the P.L.G.R.( Persicion, lightweight, global positioning system, receiver). I thought it might be interesting to compare it against the civilian models.

PERSICION- about the same as civi model- 10 to twenty feet on a good day.

LIGHTWEIGHT- yeah, right! 5 pounds and bigger than a brick.

GPS- yeah, it does that.

RECEIVER- about the same performance as civi models but doesn't tell you when the signal is weak ( you figure it out eventually).

 

There are a few more annoying things too. It only gets about 8 to 10 hours on its special battery. The battery is about the size of four D cells. If you choose to use external power and don't remove the battery it has the nasty habit of exploding with enough force to take off your hand. That problem was fixed a few years ago by modifying the battery. Hopefully all of the old batteries are gone by now.

When we first got it you had to attend a 20 hour operators course and at the end it was still confusing.

It takes about 5 minutes to get it set up and running. Once you get it running the display is rather confusing and scrolling through the menus takes forever.

All this and we get for the unbelievable price of 3000 dollars.

This is why most of the guys in my National Guard unit own the Garmin E-trex or Legend.

[+Sidewinder_6]

I have had the displeasure of operating the PLGR and the pleasure of operating my Garmin 12XL in some very interesting places. I prefer my Garmin for most applications! my Garmin is always quicker to get started - about 30 seconds most of the time and accuracy is reasonable. In Kosovo there was a 50 meter longitude difference all the time - never more, never less. This was fine for navigation and if neccessary calling for fire (never had to). For positioning our radar systems (Q36's), survey (82C for those that know) would use the PLGR to get within 3 meters (after a considerable amount of time) and then take over with M2 Aiming circles to give us an even more accurate position. Selective availability was turned on in Kosovo and we needed to "fill" our PLGR's to obtain decent accuracy. Without the "fill" my Garmin was more accurate.

 

I didn't use the PLGR in Saudi Arabia but I did use my Garmin a little. Accuracy was very good but because I didn't use the PLGR to compare accuracy I couldn't tell if selective availability was turned on and I wasn't concerned about it at the time.

 

The only advantages to the PLGR are the ability to "fill" the PLGR for accuracy (which you can't do with a civ model GPSr) or "fill" radios from the PLGR if you lose your frequency hopset (like when you accidently zero it out - oops). The PLGR has more than one use.

 

Civ model GPSr's are only GPSr's (I don't trust electronic comapasses) which in most roles is good enough when combined with a map and compass. Considering the weight savings, I would rather hump with my Garmin than with a PLGR. If I figure out at the very least which 1,000 meter grid square I am in with a GPSr, I can find my six digit location (down to 100 meters) with a map and compass. That is good enough for a resupply, call for fire, and a checkpoint location.

[+Blaidd-Drwg]

I tend to agree with most of 105mm Redleg's comments (Long Live the King of Battle - Field Artillery to you non-redlegs). I can't vouch for any comparisons between PLGRs and typical GPSr, not having used them side by side. I have used the PLGR in both Korea and in Kuwait though. It does work and is used many tactical military systems for reporting location. I'm currently in Kuwait and our group has a few different civilian GPSr that we use. We currently have Etrex, Etrex Summit and Magellan Sporttrack models. All work well, and arguements can be made about the advantages or disadvantages of each. Now for my only disagreement with 105mm Redleg. I'll start with a short story. While at the CONUS Replacement Center at Ft Benning, I set up a short course with 6 waypoints for teaching members of my group who were unfamiliar with operation of a GPSr, how to use a one. During this time, I commented that even should SA be turned on, the systems should work accurately enough to locate a unit location and even if accurracy was degraded to 100s of meters, we should still be able to locate our objectives. Well once we got on the ground in Kuwait, there were times when the sand was blowing so hard that you could not see 50 meters, let alone far enough to compare surrounding terrain to a map.( there is very little terrain in Kuwait, except for flat). So what is the bottom line of this ramble. Civilian GPSr worked fine for navigation in the military enviornment, but when it comes to positioning acquisition sources such as radar and shooters such as howitzers, I think folks are better off using the PLGR. I do agree with TeamBoonieHat that the PLGR is a bulky, heavy, unfriendly piece of equipment, that most non-mechanized unit personnel grown about having to carry. One last interesting tibit, when using a civilian GPSr, upon entering several of the forward camps, satellite lock would be lost. The GPSr would work up to the gate but not any further. I have no idea why this was, unless it was caused by the large number of generators, radios and other rf emitters.

 

Madog "Discover of America, ca 1169"

 

You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.

Source: Frank Zappa

[+TeamBoonieHat]

I was ADA for 15 years on active duty and doing the same thing in the Guard for the last 7. I'm an Avenger PSG and 100 meters is close enough for an Avenger. If one more Gunner "accidentaly" z's his radio I'll kill them all! " Uh, Sarge can you come by my position? My radios aint workin' right." The biggest problem I see is soldiers becoming PLGR dependant and losing their basic map reading skills.

[+Blaidd-Drwg]

quote:

---

The biggest problem I see is soldiers becoming PLGR dependant and losing their basic map reading skills.

---

I know what you mean and I agree to a great extent. However, having been on the receiving end of following some 2LT who couldn't find his fouth point in the dark, I'm all for giving soldiers any aide that might help them. Ultimately, it's in the individuals best interest to become proficient in basic map reading skills, as well as becoming competent on their navigational aides such as the PLGR or GPSr

 

Madog "Discover of America, ca 1169"

 

You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.

Source: Frank Zappa

[+Sidewinder_6]

Where exactly did you disagree Team Madog?

 

Having been in the desert I can understand the dependance on GPS for navigation between points although losing the signal at the gate is kind of interesting. Was it like that for the PLGR too?

 

Soldiers do lose their basic map and compass skills as a result of PLGR use but it is avoidable with a balance of training. Besides, you can't call for fire using polar plot (range and direction from your locaton) if you don't have a compass or can't use it!

 

Just out of curiosity Team Madog, what div are you with? I have associates in a Trans unit assigned to some Coscom unit in Kuwait right now.