POLL: Is it acceptable to log removed cache as found ?

May 5, 2003

Definately NOT Found! I think the lesson learned here is that if you intend to travel a long way in search of a cache (100 miles in this case), you should check the cache page before you leave to make sure it's still there. If you traveled the 100 miles for business or some other reason and the cache was secondary, then I don't think you lost anything.

9.4k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:
In your case, you already have done all of the intermediate stages. When this cache is replaced, you can do a quick find and sign the log (unless CaptMorgan changes some of the 'clues' slightly)

Very soon, after i asked him to change the found to not found or note, and he refused, i offered him a compromise. I promised to tell him new final coordinates so he could find it without searching the previous stages again (as i will make slight modifications to almost all stages of this multicache). I thought it would be a fair play.

Well, he was willing to get the new coordinates, but still he refused to change his logging...

It sounds like you have done everything you can to tell him he was in error. He's not going to change his mind, so it's time to just delete his find. Point him to this thread for your reasons why. The community at large views this as a NOT FOUND and he should conform to the majority decision.

One geocacher (you) is not playing 'cache police' on this one, democracy is.

1.1k · May 5, 2003

Not found.

It seems to me the best it could be is a note.

And after reading the compromise offered by the good Captian

quote:
Very soon, after i asked him to change the found to not found or note, and he refused, i offered him a compromise. I promised to tell him new final coordinates so he could find it without searching the previous stages again (as i will make slight modifications to almost all stages of this multicache). I thought it would be a fair play

I would have to ask nicely one more time to change it to a note. Then dump it out and not send the new information.

But that is just they way I am.

logscaler

38.2k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Very soon, after i asked him to change the found to not found or note, and he refused, i offered him a compromise. I promised to tell him new final coordinates so he could find it without searching the previous stages again (as i will make slight modifications to almost all stages of this multicache). I thought it would be a fair play.

Well, he was willing to get the new coordinates, but still he refused to change his logging...

He probably wants to be able to post another find on the cache.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

1.8k · May 5, 2003

I'd mark this one as a not found, but it's really up to the cache owner. As Seth wisely pointed out in another thread, the cache owners are the gatekeepers. I've always said that it's up to the individual seeker to determine what makes a find, subject to the cache owner's veto.

As examples, here's how I've logged previous questionable situations. = note

Spotted a cache way up in a tree that I wasn't willing to climb

Had the cache container in my hands but couldn't open it because of dirt in the threads

Hiked four miles and couldn't get to the cache under three feet of snow

Found the cache container and remnants of cache contents (did this on multiple caches)

Found the empty cache container and re-filled it

Got distracted at a nearby playground until it got dark

Ran out of time looking for a cache

ran out of time looking for part 2 of a four part multi

Gave up looking for part 2 of a four part multi

Gave up looking for a cache that I just couldn't find (plenty of times)

In the car on my way to the cache site, the rest of our Cache Machine had already logged it and were driving to the next site. I skipped it.

The trail from the parking lot was covered in deeper snow than I was prepared for.

Left something, took something, forgot to sign the log

Couldn't find the right road to get to the parking area (multiple caches)

Turned back by high water

Turned back by movie filming

Turned back by closed park gates

Turned back by the prospect of searching a school during the school day

Found a cache a second time, exactly where it was the first time (multiple caches)

Found a cache a second time, after searching another half hour and finding it 30 feet from its original spot

A question about a cache I've never been to, but my travel bug was in

Three successive trips, finding it on the third trip

Forgot the cache page, so didn't have the coordinates

Final coordinates of a puzzle cache put me somewhere the cache couldn't possible be

On a boat cache, I made it to the shore, hoping there would be boats for rent. There weren't.

Turned back by the presence of a crazy man stripping a car with his bare hands

On a pillar-climbing cache, I made it to the base of the pillar, and said 'No way.'

On a cache requiring the accomplishment of a specific feat, my equipment broke

Trying for a first find, the hider had bad coordinates. Found it with good coordinates on my return

WWJD? JW RTFM.

20.7k · May 5, 2003

travisl's note is telling to me because even though his decisions were completely logical and honorable, most people won't agree with all of them.

For instance, I would probably post more notes than he did. My feeling is, if I don't begin an active search for the box, I post a note. Therefore, if I decide to give up before I start pinging for the cache or I don't make it to a parking area for whatever reason I log a note.

That being said, my general rule for a 'found it' is that I have opened the cache and signed a log. Of course, if I trade but don't sign the log because I biff or there is no writing instrument (and I forgot to bring one) I'd probably log it as a find. If I have the cache in my hands, but can't open it, I'm not sure how I would log. I would probably email the owner and abide by his decision.

1.6k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:
If I have the cache in my hands, but can't open it, I'm not sure how I would log.

Sometimes, part of the challenge is getting inside the container.

But you're right, some are just plain balky.

CR

May 5, 2003

Most of the replies to this touchy subject are fair & honest. I think Captain Morgan has done his best to go more than half way with Mesu. Most owners of a cache wouldn't even consider what CM has proposed to Mesu. It would have been deleted already. JMO........I think Cap.M. is a good example of fairness. Wish he had caches in my area cause I would try to hit them all. He has offered Mesu everything within reason on this. Mesu only has to wait until The Captain gets the cache fixed, & he has his find. Very simple. If Mesu doesn't want to travel the miles again, then he should just delete the find. What is one no find. If he is willing to travel the miles again, he's In Like FLINT. Just sign the log. No recalculating, more steps, ect. If I were Mesu, I would change my find to a NOTE & explain why. When the cache is back up, go out there, sign the log book & that's that. Like I said. JMO. I live in Florida & many, many cachers print-out before they leave on vacation. Then once they get here & go to the cache area or find a PC to log they're find, they then find out it's been archieved or temp. disabled. BUT they still log as found. I don't know what % of caches that have achieved are removed. But it must not be many, as the finder on vacation can still log in the book. I know tha's alittle of topic just a point.

I'm making this tooooo long. Mesu, Captain Morgan has given you a choice that is very rare, why don't you take it? And if it comes down to him having to delete your find, is losing one all that big of a deal. I know you have your reasons. But this is only a game/hobbie.......don't be the parent that beat up the other parent because his son lost. Be a good sport & change the find to a note. You will sleep better.

rocker

give to the world the best you have,

and the best will come back to you.

...............MaryAinge deVere

May 5, 2003

NOT FOUND! No doubt. It's the cachers fault for not reviewing the page before he left for his trip. For crying out loud, the cache was disabled more than 1 week before you went to find it. I would never drive that far for a cache without checking the cache page before I left. What's more, the cache hadn't been found for well over a month, which is another thing that would keep me from driving 100 miles to look for it. Perhaps that's pretty common for caches in Finland if caching isn't as big as it is in the US, but if it's been more than a couple of weeks since a cache has been found, I am a bit leary of making a long drive to look for it.

dyslexics of the world, untie.

May 5, 2003

I voted NOT FOUND.

I've gone to a couple of plundered caches and spent a lot of time looking for something that wasn't there. I never considered logging these as FOUND.

The number of finds aren't as important as the enjoyment of the hunt.

GF

======================================================

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

4.7k · May 5, 2003

i admit that i'm a numbers slut. but i also can't live with myself if i claim a cache i didn't find. even if you make it about numbers, it ought to be about honest numbers.

if i can't get the container, it's NF. if i can't figure out how to open it- NF. if i don't think i can replace it.. i don't take it out and it's NF.

if i drive a really long way it's still NF.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

1.8k · May 5, 2003

It's certainly the case that I don't post nearly as many notes as other folks would. Almost without exception, if I've hit 'Go to waypoint' on my GPS with a standard cache, it's gonna get a 'found' or 'not found' log, even if I'm still driving to the area.

As for having the cache, but not being able to get inside of it, my personal choice is to figure out the cache hider's intent. If part of the challenge is opening the cache, and I fail, it's a not found. If opening the cache is not intended to be a challenge, it's a found, even if I can't get into it.

I'd concede to the cache owner's veto, though.

WWJD? JW RTFM.

1.3k · May 7, 2003

Finally some light at the end of tunnel: Mesu promised to change his "found" to note, but i must first relocate the cache and send him the new coordinates, so he can search it again. And only then when he has found the the relocated cache, he will change the false found to note.

1.6k · May 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:
Finally some light at the end of tunnel: Mesu promised to change his "found" to note, but i must first relocate the cache and send him the new coordinates, so he can search it again. And only then when he has found the the relocated cache, he will change the false found to note.

Not much of a compromise. Basically, he is dictating what and how he's going to handle your cache.

Personally, as hardheaded as he had been, I would've deleted his find and not given him a head start on the new placement.

But, it's your cache and you are the one that makes the final decision.

Fair winds and following seas,

CR

9.2k · May 7, 2003

My condolences to the social chairman for Finland's next Event Cache.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

6.4k · May 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

quote:
Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:
Finally some light at the end of tunnel: Mesu promised to change his "found" to note, but i must first relocate the cache and send him the new coordinates, so he can search it again. And only then when he has found the the relocated cache, he will change the false found to note.

Not much of a compromise. Basically, he is dictating what and how he's going to handle your cache.

Personally, as hardheaded as he had been, I would've deleted his find and _not_ given him a head start on the new placement.

But, it's your cache and you are the one that makes the final decision.

Fair winds and following seas,

CR

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/72057_2000.gif

I'll second CR here.

He doesn't get to dictate how your cache is set up, you do. Email him his copy of his current log, ask him to repost it as a DNF or note(or not at all, his choice), and delete it. You have been overly fair

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

9.4k · May 7, 2003

If he wants the new coords without doing the work, he needs to change his find to a note FIRST.

1.3k · May 8, 2003

I think this would have been much easier case to solve there in USA, as your geocaching community is so huge there. I guess i would have already deleted Mesus logging, if this had happened there.

But here in Finland we have only some 200-300 geocachers, and many of us do know each other, so i don't want to start some kind of a geocaching war here. Mesu said in one of his mails that if i delete his logging, he could consider deleting my founds of his caches..

38.2k · May 8, 2003

quote:
But here in Finland we have only some 200-300 geocachers, and many of us do know each other, so i don't want to start some kind of a geocaching war here. Mesu said in one of his mails that if i delete his logging, he could consider deleting my founds of his caches..

That goes on here too. Some people are just so small and petty. Very sad.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

6.4k · May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:
I think this would have been much easier case to solve there in USA, as your geocaching community is so huge there. I guess i would have already deleted Mesus logging, if this had happened there.

But here in Finland we have only some 200-300 geocachers, and many of us do know each other, so i don't want to start some kind of a geocaching war here. Mesu said in one of his mails that if i delete his logging, he could consider deleting my founds of his caches..

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/70242_1300.gif

Very petty. I would still delete his find. If he wants to play like that, I would then personally email every single one of those 2-300 cachers in your country, explain what this person is doing, and what a baby he is. Have them delete every single one of his finds, and not allow any of his logs. Let every other cacher in the country know how this guy is threatening you because you dont want to allow him to cheat. I wouldn't be surprised if you found he's bullied other cachers too. Maybe when he sees his find count dropping he will understand what he is doing is wrong.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:

But here in Finland we have only some 200-300 geocachers, and many of us do know each other, so i don't want to start some kind of a geocaching war here. Mesu said in one of his mails that if i delete his logging, he could consider deleting my founds of his caches..

Very sad. Mesu, you were reading this earlier; want to explain why you would behave in such a petty way?

Ron/yumitori

May 8, 2003

A DNF in my book. this year I attempted to bring a TB upstate NY to get it closer to its home, out of 4 planned caches I only had 1 find.((easter bunnys revenge)) (silly me forgot that just because the snow had melted in NJ, NY would be the same. PLUMB POINT had 12 inches of snow, could not find the cache, a few months later it was revieled the cache was plundered and the hours and hours I spent driving, searching, and driving back was for nothing. The good news is that I had a great day, visited a park I would have never bothered to visit, and now I am planning on returning to enjoy it without the snow.

Scoobydooers

Originally posted by BrianSnat:
Since the object of this sport is to find a cache and not the place where it was, or might have been, it's a "not found".

1.3k · May 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:
Mesu said in one of his mails that if i delete his logging, he could consider deleting my founds of his caches..

I wrote this in the middle of the night, almost in sleep, so i forgot to add this: but he also said that "don't worry, i will not delete your founds".

Anyway, i took it as a somekind of a threat.

1.6k · May 9, 2003

I'm not the type of person that handles threats or ultimatums very well. "Do X or I'll do Y." That just doesn't sit well with me and everyone who knows me fairly well knows they had better be prepared to do "Y."

I'd have already deleted his find and started posting the finds I have of his caches on my profile page or seperate website and documented this little feud.

It's my opinion that the find count here on GC.com is not that important as it doesn't take into account any cache or box not listed here. So, even if someone deletes your log, you still have the find if you actually found the cache. No one can take that away from you.

At your next cacher's meeting, if this guy shows up. Throw that cache log down on the table and loudly ask "Hey, Mesu, you still claiming that find of the cache that wasn't there? Find your signature in this log. If you didn't sign it, you can't claim it!"

(Folks, this is why I'm always so adamant on logs in caches.)

CR

8.4k · May 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Kouros:
_Going waaaay off topic..._

quote:
Originally posted by Irvingdog:
The writer went on a tangent about how they understand that there are various versions on "the truth".

Ummmmmm.....no there aren't.

Hmm, debatable.

I'd suggest that truth kinda depends on perception.

For example, we perceive Hitler to have been an evil man, and we may hold that as a truth. On the other hand, I'm sure Hitler saw things very differently.

Or, to put it another way, is it true that there is an empty glass sat next to my computer?

At the time of my writing, the statement is true. By the time you read this, it may, or may not be.

My version of the truth is that there is a glass there. Your version (though you are unlikely to know the truth) is that there may not be.

So, there's truth in the present tense, or in the past (or indeed in the future), or from individual perspectives, or all at the same time.

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

http://www.scubaboard.com/images/smilies/soapbox.gif

Woops!!

Edit:

I once heard a story about a guy who said nothing was true. He was later discovered to be lying.

Sngans

The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow....

6.5k · May 9, 2003

Not found, not found, not found!!!

Is that clear enough? I sort of agree with Snnogans though in that we are all participating in this sport for various motivations and it is a self policing activity. Since Mesu feels strongly that he has a find then let him go and say so. I think it's pretty clear that the majority of us don't see things his way, but does that really lessen your day in the woods? At first I got pi@@#ed off when I read the post after mine on this cache hunt but the next day I just laughed at their attitude. I'm too busy to get bothered by it. I guess that's why I just spent five minutes typing this?

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

20.7k · May 9, 2003

Take it from someone who has had to deal with the petty peeps, you may as well just make the changes you wanted to make and give him the information. Even though he's completely in the wrong, its at the point where you end up spending to much energy feeding the insanity.

May 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:
Take it from someone who has had to deal with the petty peeps, you may as well just make the changes you wanted to make and give him the information. Even though he's completely in the wrong, its at the point where you end up spending to much energy feeding the insanity.

This will only positively reinforce his behavior. He probably has bullied other cachers, and he knows he can get what he wants if he is persistent.

Captain Morgan: Delete the find, send a note with a link to this discussion, thank him for trying your cache, and move on. Let him follow through on his threats. Then let the geocachers in your area know about the bad seed. Not much energy required to do this.

May 10, 2003

I agree with the majority, it's definately a not found. This also brings up a good point. Should there be a code that is issued when the cache is approved that only the hider is given that can be placed in the cache. This code can be required to log the cache as a find. The code can also be made up by the hider at the time they submit the cache for approval. Just food for thought.

_________________________________________________________

On the other hand, you have different fingers.

May 10, 2003

I voted that it was NOT a find. However, I had a similar experience with B & A Linear Diversion, waypoint GC81A1. I did NOT log a find but contacted the hider by email and explained exactely where the cache should have been. He said I was correct and said I could take credit for the find when it was put back in service. I was only into This sport one week when this happened (and am still a newbie. Caching only about three weeks now). I NEVER did log it as a find and after reading these posts I will NOT log it.

What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

May 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrownMule:
I agree with the majority, it's definately a not found. This also brings up a good point. Should there be a code that is issued when the cache is approved that only the hider is given that can be placed in the cache. This code can be required to log the cache as a find. The code can also be made up by the hider at the time they submit the cache for approval. Just food for thought.

_BrownMule has a GREAT idea.

_________________________________________________________

On the other hand, you have different fingers.

_

http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/15777_2200.gif

9.4k · May 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrownMule:
I agree with the majority, it's definately a not found. This also brings up a good point. Should there be a code that is issued when the cache is approved that only the hider is given that can be placed in the cache. This code can be required to log the cache as a find. The code can also be made up by the hider at the time they submit the cache for approval. Just food for thought.

That was discussed a couple of months ago. It is considered redundant in that since you have already signed the log for verification, why should you need to email a code also?

May 10, 2003

In answer to the above:

1.-Virtual Caches have no log.

2.- I doubt many hiders re-visit caches to check to see that finders log in. In my area (Maryland) Klaus Von Kuhn must have hidden hundreds of caches.

3.- logs some time get wet and the ink smears making verification difficult.

4.- Have you seen some peoples Penmanship?

What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

May 10, 2003

No

Earth First!!! We'll cache the other planets later!!

May 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by clearpath:
No find !!!

I seem to rememeber that "close" only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes.

And thermo-nuculear weapons!!!

Earth First!!! We'll cache the other planets later!!

May 10, 2003

We recently found a cache "ammo box" but contents had been taken. We logged it as a find. If we hadn't found the containter itself, we definitely wouldn't have logged a find. The coordinates took us right to it...but if "nothing" is there...then there's nothing to log!

May 10, 2003

This thread and the general sentiment shown, has made me change a "found it" to a "not found". I found the lid of the cache container with the co-ordinates written on it and I am certain it was in the exact location where the rest of the cache had been. After reading this thread I decided that a lid of a cache container is not a cache and therefore I should not have logged it as a find.

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

May 11, 2003

This topic has really dragged on & on. I (JMHO) think CP is the better person in all of this. It's his cache. He has decided to what he's going to do. I find honesty in that. Which makes him the better person. But like I said..JMHO>>> Mesu hope you keep your word. And this should not cause any reason for you to delete CP's finds. He seems to be a very true person, which makes me feel that he would only log a cache as being found if he indeed did. Happy & Safe Caching To All!!!

rocker

give to the world the best you have,

and the best will come back to you.

...............MaryAinge deVere

May 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

Leaving the find as is cheapens the other finder's experiences.

I mean no offense to CR and maybe I'm just arguing semantics, but.........

I say it's a not found because he didn't sign the log, but I disagree with the above comment. Just because some other cacher may post a false find on a cache, it does not take away from my enjoyment if I get there. I'm in this hobby for me, not anybody else. I do it for the hike, the views, the fresh air and excercise, not for the numbers. Even Captain Mad Morty McVane couldn't ruin my experience, he leaves the box and log. If I sign the log, throw in a lightstick and take a pic to post, I go home happy. End of story.

I am not addicted to geocaching, really.

May 11, 2003

I reckon, as happened recentlly to one of my caches, if the looted remains of the cache are found, I suppose I could see crediting the geocacher who locates those remains with a find, albeit an unfortunate one.

May 11, 2003

physical cache, didn't sign logbook, didn't find it. no way this is a find. should've checked the site before he took off to look for the cache if he had run them off earlier.

May 12, 2003

I already stopped following this forum, but I received so many encouraging contacts that I decided to say something once more.

As Captain Morgan corrected his words, I did not threat to remove his founds. I only said that as the cache owner he can delete my log if he deems it right and in the same way I could delete his logs IN THE CASES WHERE HIS NAME IS NOT IN THE LOGBOOKS of my caches. I mentioned in the next sentence of the same mail that I was not going to do it. I just pointed out that he also makes exceptions that could be criticized and that he is not doing what he tells others to do.

Like Lazyboy & Mitey Mite put it on May 5, it is about enjoyment and not a competition. To elaborate on Micqns' toilet parable, I have seen Captain's bathroom without furniture. It would not be a major enjoyment to go back and just sit on the toilet. What can be experienced, has been experienced, and that is why it is a found to me. This is far from cheating because I explained in the log what had happened.

After all this publicity that Captain Morgan has made, I am deeply wondering his motivations. Maybe you should as well.

May 12, 2003

My partner and I went looking for a cache last week. We know we were in the right spot, confirmed both by our GPSrs and by other cachers. The container, however, is diabolically concealed, and we were unable to lay hands on it.

By your logic, Mesu, we could still log that as a "found."

It's not just getting to the coords on the GPS; if it was, we'd all just do virtual caches. It's about getting your hands on the container itself. If you didn't do that, you didn't find it, no matter how close to it you were.

6.4k · May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mesu:
Like Lazyboy & Mitey Mite put it on May 5, it is about enjoyment and not a competition. To elaborate on Micqns' toilet parable, I have seen Captain's bathroom without furniture. It would not be a major enjoyment to go back and just sit on the toilet. What can be experienced, has been experienced, and that is why it is a found to me. This is far from cheating because I explained in the log what had happened.

If its not about the numbers to you, then what's the problem with logging your enjoyment and experience as a DNF or a note? You still get to write about what a great time you had. You still get to write about how enjoyable it was. Only difference is you don't get a find added next to your name, which is fair, since you didnt find the cache. If its not about the number of finds, why is this so hard for you?

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

May 12, 2003

I agree with what TKCollective wrote, but caches are different. If one is well hidden, the main task is to find it. In this case the main point of the cache was the five stops, and the problem was not that the cache had been too well hidden.

The discussion has proved that opinions vary. Some do not accept it as a found if someone only finds a piece of the lid but cannot write his name in the logbook. Many of my caches have been destroyed (although now they are pretty fine again), and I have never even considered to question the found when someone has logged that he found a piece of the lid.

As long as we are not competing with each other, it really does not matter to classify these opinions as right and wrong ones.

May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:
If its not about the number of finds, why is this so hard for you?

1. Maybe it would not be so hard, if the cache owner complied with his own rule.

2. Regardless of #1, why would I let someone else's opinion on this affect my hobby. If I changed the log, people would say: "He cheated, but he changed the log when he was caught." Now, everyone can see from my log entry what really happened, and I am happy with my "partial find." Read my log and you'll see that I did not try to conceal that the box was not there.

6.4k · May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mesu:
The discussion has proved that opinions vary. Some do not accept it as a found if someone only finds a piece of the lid but cannot write his name in the logbook. Many of my caches have been destroyed (although now they are pretty fine again), and I have never even considered to question the found when someone has logged that he found a piece of the lid.

As long as we are not competing with each other, it really does not matter to classify these opinions as right and wrong ones.

I don't think I read any posts though that said finding the general area where a cache that had been disabled and noted on the webpage as not there was considered a find. Except you.

Besides, if there IS a difference of opinion on what qualifies as a find, then the opinion of the cache OWNER is the one that matters. It's his cache. He determines what qualifies. In this case he's stated that finding the area the cache used to be does not count as a find. Again, why are you arguing?

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

May 12, 2003

The reality of online logs is that a log is a find only if both the hunter and hider agree that it is a find. If hunter doesn't think it is a find and logs either a note or "not found" there is nothing the hider can do to make it a find log, no matter if they think it should be a find¹. If the hunter thinks it is a find but the hider disagrees they can delete the find. In this case Mesu the hunter thinks it is a find and logged it as such. At this time while the hider Captain_Morgan&Family has written he didn't think it should be a find, he hasn't deleted the log. Therefore at this time, it is a find, if the Captain deletes it, then at that time it isn't a find.

Now my personal opinion is that it isn't a find, but in truth for this log entry the only people that control if this one counts as a find are Captian_Morgan and Mesu. They can read what the rest of us think, but in the end they have to decide.

¹ While it is rare that a hider thinks a log should be a find when the hunter doesn't, it has happened.

May 12, 2003

Mesu: In this situation, it appears that everyone, except you, believes that it IS NOT A FIND. I don't know why Capt. Morgan has not deleted it. If the cache was in his possession, you could not have found it.

Can't sign the log, can't call it a find.

1.3k · May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mesu:
I already stopped following this forum, but I received so many encouraging contacts that I decided to say something once more..

Well, it's good that you follow this again.

quote:
I just pointed out that he also makes exceptions that could be criticized and that he is not doing what he tells others to do.

The ONLY exception i have made was in one of Mesu's cache that he had not maintained. The microcache had water in it and the logbook was so wet i could not write anything in it.

quote:
After all this publicity that Captain Morgan has made, I am deeply wondering his motivations. Maybe you should as well.

As i said earlier, the only motivation is to get Mesu understand that he's doing wrong...

POLL: Is it acceptable to log removed cache as found ?

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