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Do you always log DNFs?


CacheMonkeez
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quote:
is it an admission of failure or informative to the cache owner and other cachers

 

If I get to the point where I plug in the coordinates and hit "go to" and don't come up with the cache, it's a DNF in my eyes. An admission of failure? What do you mean by failure? Did I fail to find the cache? Yes. Was it a failure on my part? Maybe.

 

But was it really a failure? Did it get me outdoors? Yes it did, so it was a success. Did I have fun? Yes I did, so it was a success. Did I learn anything? Often I do, so it was a success. Did I test myself? With many caches the answer is yes, so it would be a success. Found or not.

 

As for the second part of your question...yes DNF's are important information. Enough of them and the cache owner may consider raising the difficulty level...or visit to make sure it's still there. Enough DNF's and other geocachers will know that they should budget a little extra time looking for the cache. Either way it's all part of the history of the cache and part of the sport.

 

Heck, I play a pretty good shortstop. But I've made errors. Some have cost my team the game. I've also won games for my team. Success and failure is all part of the sport. If you can't deal with failure, stay home and watch TV.

 

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on January 24, 2003 at 06:32 PM.]

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I, like adrianjohn, post DNFs. I cannot for the life of me figure out when people make a post like this 'well second time here and we found it' They won't post a DNF but admit that it took two trys to get it. things that make you go HHMMMM.

 

It also serves to keep the cache owner aware of the state of his/hers cache.

 

bcrockcrawler

 

We live on a rock, ergo we rockcrawl.......

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Hammack:

Do you always log DNFs?


If I got out the car and did not find the cache, I log a DNF. If I turn back before leaving the car, then no. If I get to correct park, or known parking coords., but don't get out (usually a time restraint), then no.

 

quote:
Is it an admission of failure or informative to the cache owner and other cachers?
I think you if haven't logged a DNF you either have been very lucky, or haven't searched for enough caches icon_wink.gif And yes its very informative to other cachers and the owner.

 

quote:
Would you post a DNF if you saw other cachers logged finds the same day?

icon_confused.gifI dont understand?? Why would seeing other cachers affect if I found this cache? or how/if I would log it icon_confused.gif

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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Yeah, I feel that posting a DNF is far too important to take lightly. I check the caches we intend to hunt online and if there have been several DNFs posted in a row, then I reconsider taking the kids after that cache till it's been checked by the cache owner. So, that means that if I cannot find a cache it is important for me to post it so that others might benefit. It is not an indication of any failure of any kind, it's evidence of an effort on your part to find something that is intended to be hidden and a challenge to find. I'd feel MUCH worse about not finding something that is out in the open and obvious, like my hairbrush, that I could have sworn was NOT on my sink just a moment ago, but now, is sitting RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!How the heck did I miss that darn thing..... sigh, I'll never figure that one out....

 

Log the DNF, it's your duty as a genuine GeoCacher!!!

 

icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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I allways log my not founds. As BrianSnat said above, if i punch in the coordinates and hit "goto", im on the hunt and if i fail to find the cache for whatever reason, its a no find! For me it makes the cache even more memorable when/if i do get to go back and finally find it.

 

I definitely dont consider not finding a cache a life altering failure! icon_rolleyes.gif

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quote:
I cannot for the life of me figure out when people make a post like this 'well second time here and we found it' They won't post a DNF but admit that it took two trys to get it.

 

But when/if I do get back and make the find, I edit my earlier post to Found and correct the date.

 

'A good traveler has no specific destination, and isn't intent on arriving.'-take pleasure in the journey

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Some people log a DNF if they head out the door and don't even get to the cache. I'm not that much of a purist. If I am ground pounding for the cache and don't find it. It's a DNF. I've got 5 that I haven't cleared up and 4 are on my list to redeem myself tomorrow. The 5th. There was nothing to find. It was later determined to have been plundered. Since then it's been replaced. I've been back as many as 9 times to find a cache. A cache that others found so fast that the only reason they didn't find it faster was they had to set down their GPS.

 

Live and learn. By and large seeing DNF's and finding the cache makes you feel good. Logging A DNF when you are actually good at finding them tells the owner something about their cache.

 

Wherever you go there you are.

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quote:
Originally posted by bcrockcrawler, xstitcher, & BMXer:

I cannot for the life of me figure out when people make a post like this 'well second time here and we found it' They won't post a DNF but admit that it took two trys to get it.


Me too. When I read a sentence like that, the first thing I do is scroll down to read the not-found log. I like those the best. Usually, there isn't one.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Slim & Rainey Belle:

I edit my earlier post to Found and correct the date.


That's too bad, because the not-founds are invariably the best. I sometimes learn something by reading the not-founds. Which way not to go, for instance. When you edit your not found, you're removing part of that caches history forever. To me, that's like going back and editing something in your journal because there has been a change in your life.

 

Better to just add your found-it log, in my opinion.

 

As for me. All my not-founds are proudly displayed in my profile. (There are two more--I am a week behind updating the list as of this writing.)

 

Jamie

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quote:
Originally posted by welch:

If I got out the car and did not find the cache, I log a DNF. If I turn back before leaving the car, then no. If I get to correct park, or known parking coords., but don't get out (usually a time restraint), then no. I think you if haven't logged a DNF you either have been very lucky, or haven't searched for enough caches icon_wink.gif And yes its very informative to other cachers and the owner. icon_confused.gifI dont understand?? Why would seeing other cachers affect if I found this cache? or how/if I would log it icon_confused.gif


 

Yea, what he said.

 

The only other exception I play into my rules is when I've gone about 20 feet from the car - not even on the trail, and my kids starts to whine really bad. If we have to turn our backs on the hunt for reasons beyond our control, I'll post a note: Got out of the car, but had to turn back due to whiny kids." That's about the only grey area I've got.

 

When I was starting out and did my first "cache frenzy" of 10 in one day (August 2001), I didn't log the DNF on the one cache I turned back on. I had gone about 0.15 miles, and still had 0.20 miles to go. I had a WALL of thorns and no way to get past it. I just "omitted" this log from the collection.

 

If I had it to do all over again, I'd log that DNF. Seems kinda pointless to go back now, since I found it 9 months later.

 

However, I have logged DNF with very brief comments.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Hammack:

Do you always log DNFs?


 

Yes.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Team Hammack:

Is it an admission of failure or informative to the cache owner and other cachers?


 

Yes. The information might be important to the cache owner, and who cares if you failed; you can always try again.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Team Hammack:

Would you post a DNF if you saw other cachers logged finds the same day?


 

Yes. Been there; done that.

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The exception occured this week. I found the cache but was unable to access the log book to log it due to a miscalculation at the very beginning. I posted a note saying I did yet didn't find it. In my eyes it was a DNF just not represented by the depressing little sad face icon. I found it and logged it the next day so the Universe has realigned and all is again right with the world. Just a little plug, if you are within a 100 mile radius of the "Out on a Limb" cache, you should plan on doing it. Lots of fun.

 

A day without sunshine is like ...night.

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Yes. log DNF's to inform others and the cache owner. I agree with those who log DNf if they actually hunted for the cache ie searched the cache area and couldn't find it.

But if you only started toward the cache but didn't really arive near the lat/lon then post a note about your attempt. There are always gray areas in any subjective decision though and that is where your personal views rule.

 

$1000 Bill geocaching is living in a 30 foot circle

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Hammack:

Do you always log DNFs?

 

Is it an admission of failure or informative to the cache owner and other cachers?

 

Would you post a DNF if you saw other cachers logged finds the same day?


 

OK. If you logged a DNF and then went back later and found it, would you delete your DNF log?

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quote:
OK. If you logged a DNF and then went back later and found it, would you delete your DNF log?

 

I don't because it all makes up your geocaching history. I admit that I failed, can't change it, will fail again, didn't hurt the first time, probably won't hurt then either.. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Also, some DNF's make just as interesting log entry as Finds do.

This is a local cache that has a few DNF's included one from us, makes for a good read.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=27652

 

We live on a rock, ergo we rockcrawl.......

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99% of the time I do long frownies however there has been times when I forget to log my frownie or I got to the cache area and simply did not want to look for it because I was too tired from caching to look. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

In a way Frownies are good because if there are a lot of frownies it is a good indication that maybe the rating placed on the cache is too low. I watch my caches and if I see a lot of no finds, I start to wonder has the cache been plundered and so I go and verify that it is still there. icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

If you don't log Frownies, you should. It doesn't mean that your stupid or anything. It is your way to tell the cache owner, "Man you hid that sucker pretty good" or "Maybe you might want to see if the cache is still there". Plus there is not a count on Frownies and they do not effect anyone precious statistics. icon_razz.gif

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I do not always post a DNF, If it is a cache that has not been found or that is a difficlut find I may not.

Example.

There is a cache here in Colorado 'missing streamlet". It was out there for a looong time with only one find. I did not want to alert anyone I was going for it, even though I made two attempts and finally got it on the third attempt. Which is when I posted the find and the story of the attempts. It was 7 1/2 hours RT hike deep into the mtns.

Otherwise I do post DNFs in urban areas, alhough, thankfully thse have been very few.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Hammack:

OK. If you logged a DNF and then went back later and found it, would you delete your DNF log?


It makes no sense to have a log saying "Had to make two trips to find this, was looking at wrong tree, i feel so stupid...". If all the posts are left alone you can see what they did on the first trip. icon_smile.gif

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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I think if you went out looking and you Did Not Find it then you should log it as a dnf. How difficult is that. I went to one cache twice and didn't find it I put down two sad faces and afterwards the cache was archived. My sad faces are still there.

 

Still looking!

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Hammack:

OK. If you logged a DNF and then went back later and found it, would you delete your DNF log?


 

I have to post in this thread again as it has taken a slight turn.

No I would not delete a DNF if I find it later, I think all logs are an important part of the cache history and should not be altered.

I have posted a DNF on a plundered cache even though I found it remains. The cache owner said I had done enough to claim a find, but my DNF still stands and I am proud of it. How can you claim a find if there is no log in the cache to prove you were there? Yes I know others have claimed for less but I cannot do that.

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I've logged all our DNFs but one. On that one we didn't really complete a true search so I don't count it.

Two of our DNFs turned out to be missing: our DNF logs prompted the cache owners to do maintenance checks and they discovered the disapperances and replaced the caches. Then we went back and found that they were hidden exactly where we thought they should have been.

Remember, your log may save other cachers time and effort in some way, or give them an interesting read. We're always doing something stupid on a cache hunt so our logs are usually pretty descriptive. There are a few hilarious things that have happened, though, and I just have to leave those things out for decency's sake icon_razz.gif

 

______________________________________________________________________

Remember that happiness is a way of travel, not a destination. - Roy M. Goodman

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I have to admit, I reached a point early on where I had a few NFs I didn't log. I was using a really dated GPSr that was sooo bad I wasn't even close to the cache location (something I was able to verify later with a better reciever) and I didn't want to leave logs blaming the gear & sound like a whiner. Even if I am one. icon_wink.gif

 

------------------------------

You are your own worst food

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If I get close enough to search and don't find it, I log it. There have been 5 of these including my very first solo cache. I went back and found 2, still have to go find 2 others.

 

One DNF occurred on a driving trip and I don't expect to go back there to look again.

 

And, I DO NOT delete DNFs once I F it!!!! icon_smile.gif

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I log a DNF, but if I go back and find it I'll edit the entry to "found". Like so:

 

quote:

icon_smile.gif January 7 by Lefty Skywalker (20 found)

You can (edit), (delete) or (permanently encrypt) this log entry.

Got back from a frustrating search to discover that my coordinates were WAAAAY off. 818 is nowhere near 118, of course. I'll find it next time.

 

On edit 1/10/03: Found it this time! Took gigantic neon fly, left pterodactyl, toy soldier, and bobber, and a haiku in the logbook.

 

(last edit: 1/10/2003 5:27:26 PM PST)


 

It even adds the timestamp for you.

 

What Would Yoda Do?

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Being new at this - I'm surprised at the varied perspectives (and I hadn't even given it much thought until I recently posted a few DNF's.).

 

I had a few caches I didn't get near and had logged them as DNF (I didn't mind the frowny faces on my cache page! icon_wink.gif ) Anyway, I got some feedback that some folks use programs that "rate" caches based on DNF's - and my incompetence or newbieness shouldn't reflect on the cache. Sooooooo, for those caches where I had logged DNF's, when I found the cache - I updated the old DNF's to be notes (I didn't want to delete the logs since I thought they were funny) but felt a little gun-shy about leaving them DNF's.

 

Honestly, I was fine with the DNF entries but based on the feedback from more experienced folks, I'd changed the notfnds to notes after I'd found the cache (of course, I still have notfnds I haven't managed to locate - so I still have those frowny guys in my log!). icon_eek.gif

 

The way I figure it - there's tens of thousands of caches I haven't found......yet! icon_confused.gif

 

- Hart

(still learning every day!)

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quote:
Originally posted by HartClimbs:

 

Sooooooo, for those caches where I had logged DNF's, when I found the cache - I updated the old DNF's to be notes (I didn't want to delete the logs since I thought they were funny) but felt a little gun-shy about leaving them DNF's.


 

Personally, I don't do that. DNFs remain DNFs, even after I find the cache. In fact, there's one cache where two consecutive log entries are both mine, one DNF log and one Found log.

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I log my DNF's

 

If i get out and hunt and I can't find it it gets a frownie and a log entry.

 

I do how every typically go back and find it I make an additional entry on my current log and change it to a smiley but I leave the DNF logs.

 

I have been turned back a few times because of time and depending I log the DNF depending on what happenes.

 

People that think about doing a cache and log a dnf is they didnt get out of the car are a bit twisted in thier own right.

 

Happy Hiking

 

-Robert

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Hammack:

Do you always log DNFs?


Sometimes I actually find them, and then I log a Found It!" icon_biggrin.gif

 

But if I searched and didn't find it, then I have always logged a DNF ( icon_frown.gif).

And to answer your revised question: No, I never delete a DNF after finally finding the cache. I agree with others that it's part of the cache history.

 

Oh, and I also logged a DNF for an event cache I knew I wouldn't be able to attend because the icon_frown.gif seemed appropriate. I guess that makes me a real failure in the eyes of those who count them as such. Oh well... icon_frown.gificon_frown.gificon_frown.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

Worldtraveler

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If I can't find a cache - and I mean I really can't find it, having searched high and low - I'll log a no find. It's an admission of failure, at that stage, anyway.

 

It gives the opportunity for the owner to have a look too, if they want.

 

But... if I get to the general area of a cache, and find it's impassable, because I've been a dumb-***, and not brought the right equipment (ie, no Welly Boots for a boggy terrain) then its my fault, and the least amount of people that know, the better.

 

Except I've now told you lot.

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

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If I log a DNF it stays there unless the owner deletes it.

 

My rule:

I made it to search zone, GPS clicked to feet, it is a DNF if I don't find it.

 

If I get out of car but somehow don't make it to the search zone / mode then it is a note.

 

Notes and DNFs stay there forever.

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I posted my first DNF last weekend on a cache that had been previously plundered and moved. When the cache owner moved it, he wrote that the new cache location was "260 degrees for approx. 30-40 yard". I didn't like these general directions and I wondered why he just didn't give latitude and longitude coordinates, but I decided to search for it anyway. I searched for 45 minutes and did not find it so I logged it as a DNF and told the owner that there were way too many people in the vicinity, poor directions and a virtual would be a better choice for this location. The very next day the cache was achieved. Without posting DNF's a cache owner is not going to know there is a problem with the cache.

 

Lake Tahoe Geocacher

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im a relative newcomer and maybe im completely out to lunch but i think a dnf is when you dont find the cache and actually searched for it. if you head home say for batteries and return for the cache and find it then its a find.

 

i think that dnf's serve to help future cachers but i think that you have to consider how hard you actually looked, if, for example, you reach a site a dusk without a flashlight hows that a dnf?

 

i guess that my point is that i dont think your actually geocaching until you reach the site where the cache is and start looking for it in earnest, all the details of your excursion belong in the cache log though, for the amusement of the rest of us.

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quote:
Originally posted by dave and jaime:

i dont think your actually geocaching until you reach the site where the cache is and start looking for it in earnest,


I disagree. If I load up the nearest caches into my GPS, go out to my car, set my GPS to goto the nearest cache and then pull out of the parking lot, that's when I am geocaching.

 

If I stopped to talk to a friend at that moment and he asked what I was doing, I'd tell him I was on a geocaching trip.

 

Geocaching is geocaching is geocaching. If I end my geocaching trip without having found that cache, then it's a no-find.

 

Jamie

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I would have to agree with '68 Dodger, I don't consider it a DNF unless I actually searched for the cache and didn't find it. If I had hit the goto on my gps and then something sidetracked me from going to the cache I would consider that a WGF (was going to find). Until I have that button as a choice on the cache log page, I won’t log a cache as a find or no find until I have actually searched for it.

 

Lake Tahoe Geocacher

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