Snipe33 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I'm sure this has been posted before (I'm new) but please forgive me. Checking the logs in my area I notice one cacher that hits the caches and states he's taking things. I also noticed that he never mentions placing something back into the caches. I sent him an email asking if he put anything back in my cache (maybe he forgot to log it) and he sends a message back saying, "Is it against the law? Well, is it?" It's not....but you have to be some kind of super cheap person to not place something back into a cache. I work with lppd who's placed several caches in the area and he was also annoyed by this person taking and not giving (lppd puts some good stuff in his caches like FRS radios etc). Is this a big problem all over? Snipe33 Quote Link to comment
mckee Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Typically the problem ends up being "Took priceless gold dubloons, left broken McToy and baggie with poo in it." Leaving nothing is the ultimate in tacky and classless. It's certainly NOT illegal, but bad manners are unacceptable behavior no matter where you are or what you're doing. I'd hate to live on the same block as they do. Their kids are probably some piece of work.... -------------------- Searching for the lost, Geocache....... Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 It is; though normally people just make bad trades even if they are well intensioned. You have found a special case of...words fail me here. Quote Link to comment
+Bilder Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Sounds like a cacher who has been on the Springer show as well. Not very classy at all. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have never been lost. Been awful confused for a few days, but never lost! N61.12.041 W149.43.734 Quote Link to comment
+worldtraveler Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Not illegal, but perhaps he is unaware of the guidelines. You could refer him to the FAQs where he could read for himself... quote:What is Geocaching? Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game for gps users. Participating in a cache hunt is a good way to take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a gps unit. The basic idea is to have individuals and organizations set up caches all over the world and share the locations of these caches on the internet. GPS users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache. worldtraveler Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 The geocacher in question is clearly cognizant of the concept of trading. I reviewed some of the family's logs and there are several that mention trades (took yo yo, left pocket knife ) or the classic phrase, "TNLN." But then there are some gems like taking two Tina Turner CD's and a magnet, and leaving nothing, and taking a street atlas and pen, and leaving nothing. The only thing which eclipses the stupidity of this geocacher's behavior is his willingness to admit to it in his logs. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote: You have found a special case of...words fail me here. I believe this person is what someone else in the forums called a cad and a bounder. Taking something and leaving nothing isn't usually a problem. Most people here are pretty honest that way. Taking something nice and leaving junk though is pretty common though. Like Lep, I was looking through this culprit's logs. Here was my favorite trade: "Grabbed the pocket knife for Clark and left a quarter. Thanks" "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm [This message was edited by BrianSnat on September 23, 2003 at 07:30 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 What I would like to know is how this person would react if someone starting just swiping things from their cache. (if theres anything in it...) Quote Link to comment
+NattyBooshka Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:But then there are some gems like taking two Tina Turner CD's and a magnet, and leaving nothing Well... at least he's taking trash out of the caches... should have left something for the magnet though! Stand by for flaming from Tina Turner fans... Neil. Some people are born great, some achieve greatness, and some just grate Quote Link to comment
pdumas Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 We have a person in this area who goes to the same caches several times to get trade ideas but leaves nothing in return. (He also takes Travel Bugs and that's the last you see of it.) There isn't anything anyone can do but just go on playing our game and having fun. Quote Link to comment
+Scoobie10 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Well, it certainly was pretty easy to figure out who the offender is. I wonder if I should shoot off a scolding email to him with a couple of links to the FAQ. It certainly is bad form. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Scoobie A day without sunshine is like.....NIGHT! Quote Link to comment
+robert Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 one funny thing is he's writing cache' (pronounced cash-AY) in his logs. Doh! ~robert www.CacheGear.com Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by NattyBooshka:Stand by for flaming from Tina Turner fans... You might want to take a seat. It will be awhile Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I am guessing that both of Tina Turner's fans are too busy to post here right now, but if either of them start a flame war, I'll be like Ike on 'em. Don't make me stop this car! Quote Link to comment
Fakk 2 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Sending him an email I doubt will matter, as stated at the beginning, he was sent an email and replied is it illegal? The answer is no its not illegal, it may be Rude, to say the least, but not illegal. Therefore nothing will make him change his mind in an email. I am guessing this person doesnt go to any cache events either. if they do, the solution is quite simple to shun him at the events, All though anyone can participate in the events, it is understood that you agree to the guidelines. now the question comes up, if you leave a box of goodies in the woods, who owns it. If he takes something out of the box without trading, is it stealing? If seen that way then yes its illegal. But I see that as being rough to pull off in court (small claims) GeoCache Pickup Line: Hey I'm looking for treasure, Can I look around your chest? Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I havn't come across this problem yet. Like a few others said you're always gonna get 1 or 2 player that take a travel bug & WG$ and leave a rock. If it was my cache, I would simply delete the log. If you take something and don't leave something I'm not giving you credit for the find. Of coarse there's the rare time that a good cacher will simply forget the goods, and simply has to have that GC pin in the cache. I'll let it slide. Anyway, that's my sugestion. Delete the log. If he cares about his find count he'll at least make a trip to the dollar store for some trade items. Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. Because now I am Lost. Quote Link to comment
mckee Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Keystone Approver:I am guessing that both of Tina Turner's fans are too busy to post here right now, but if either of them start a flame war, I'll be like Ike on 'em. Uh, Ike is one of them. -------------------- Searching for the lost, Geocache....... Quote Link to comment
Snipe33 Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Delete the log. If he cares about his find count he'll at least make a trip to the dollar store for some trade items. Hey! That's a good idea! This guy just pee'd me off so bad. The original email I sent to him wasn't rude....his reply in my opinion certainly was though. The log deletion is a good idea. I'll let lppd841 know about that option too. Snipe33 Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Maybe this guy should start the www.almostpiratecaching.com site. I don't see that big a difference. --Marky "All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr" Quote Link to comment
+Planet Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: Like Lep, I was looking through this culprit's logs. Here was my favorite trade: _"Grabbed the pocket knife for Clark and left a quarter. Thanks"_ Brian, I read some of his posts too, in order. Just to give him the benefit of the doubt, he did leave that pocket knife in the next cache of the day. If you look at his profile, he is involved with kids, and I would hope he would instill in them a sense of fair play and not a sense of "I'll do what I want when I want no matter who it affects". I hope he sees himself in these forums, and realizes that it's not good form to take and take and not return anything to the game. Planet Quote Link to comment
vagabond Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Hey you have to admit, for a Grandmother she sure has a fantastic set of legs All who look are not lost Quote Link to comment
Micqn Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by mckee:...left broken McToy and baggie with poo in it." Heh, He said 'poo'! pLAyS WitH maTCHeS Quote Link to comment
+fizzymagic Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 There is a trivial solution to this, folks. You are the cache owner: you can place whatever requirements you want to log the cache. Post clearly on the cache page that the cacher may take something, but must then leave something of equal or greater value in the cache. If anyone does not meet that requirement, delete their log. Quote Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I'd send the guy one more email and ask him to trade fairly or don't trade. I'd point out the trust issues that cache hiders and seekers have. If he insists on being a jerk - I'd contact the owners of other caches he's done this to and suggest they delete his finds. (I'm agreeing with the others about this). That has a real possibility of working. sd "Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 my problem is that i think of the log as an important part of the cache's history. deleting is kind of extreme. i did it once on a cacher who had not found the container, but only after repeated attempts to get him to change to NF. in this case, i think it's just punishment, but it does spoil some of the log's integrity. on the other hand, every once in a while i make a lame trade, but i always try to make up for it on balance. i sometimes trade WAY up to keep my personal books in order and to make a nice surprise for somebody. -====)) -)))))))))))) presta schrader Quote Link to comment
+Xitron Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 The simple truth is this guy is just plain rude. If someone places a cache and puts some good loot in it and he comes along takes the good loot and leaves nothing? Imo he is an A$$. I have complained about what has been left in caches before and was jumped on by alot of people because I haden't done many caches, and they were right. I am holding my opinion till I have at least 100 caches under my belt to post again on the topic. The way I am now looking at is I try and improve a cache if it is low on loot, most of my recent finds have been tn, left compess and flashlight or something like that. While its not great treasure it is better then what some had that were low for whatever reason. I like the fact that I may increase the next cachers experience by adding better loot. Personally I haven't really found anything that I would want, so why take anything at all, just leave something for the next person. Wait I did find something I really liked sorry, it was the "twin bridges cache pin" this person makes special pins and places it in the cache for all the finders. Quote Link to comment
Snipe33 Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote: Ever heard "Finders keepers; losers weepers".I have found some cache sites over loaded with "treasure" at times also, and have "cleaned" house for the fellow geo cachers. Lets not start another religion) If it is too personal maybe you could hide members only cache. As I might be too cheap to be a member or maybe I'm not. tishman P.S. Do you really think the cache' would go empty? Welfare? Come on.............lets not make them warfare centers. Well is there? That is his latest email response to my email telling him that what he's doing wrecks the spirit of the game. I give up!!!! Snipe33 Quote Link to comment
+Xitron Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 He really said "finders keepers: losers weepers? LMFAO Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Sounds like just another variation on the *Pirate* theme....lol. "Afghanistan was a battle. Iraq was a battle. The war goes on." Quote Link to comment
Jeremy Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Maybe you can start leaving this book in caches they tend to frequent. At least the world would benefit from their geocaching experience. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeremy:Maybe you can start leaving http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764113674/qid=1064368459/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-4976702-5452666?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 in caches they tend to frequent. At least the world would benefit from their geocaching experience. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Please, Jeremy, that is far too high-brow for the likes of such. Methinks a copy of *The Idiot's Guide To English* would be much more in line with our goal...LOL. "Afghanistan was a battle. Iraq was a battle. The war goes on." Quote Link to comment
+Xitron Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I agree with Breaktrack, idiots guild would be best. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by fizzymagic: Post clearly on the cache page that the cacher may take something, but must then leave something of equal or greater value in the cache. If anyone does not meet that requirement, delete their log. My thoughts exactly. quote: flask my problem is that I think of the log as an important part of the cache's history. deleting is kind of extreme. I did it once on a cacher who had not found the container, but only after repeated attempts to get him to change to NF. in this case, I think it's just punishment, but it does spoil some of the log's integrity. I agree to a certain extent. But in my limited experience I haven’t seen too many... took: a pound of fifty's left: pocket lint. So, deleting an occasional log, especially when there are 10, 20, 30 other logs in a cache, should not effect the overall integrity of the cache. Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. Because now I am Lost. Quote Link to comment
+Xitron Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I agree with the fact that if he cares about the count deleting his log will have an effect. If however he doesn't care then you are just deleting the fact that he is just cheap. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Xitron:If however he doesn't care then you are just deleting the fact that he is just cheap. Hmmm.... Ok, how's this. Delete his log then post a note telling everyone how cheap he is. ie...Note: SoAndSo took: Laptop computer, Left: Toe jam. Therefor I deleted his log so he doesn't get credit for the find. Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. Because now I am Lost. Quote Link to comment
+Xitron Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 ROFL Yep that'll work as well. Quote Link to comment
Snipe33 Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 The proposed counter-measures just keep getting better and better by the minute! Woohoo! Snipe33 Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Snipe33:The proposed counter-measures just keep getting better and better by the minute! Woohoo! Snipe33 Yup, this is a great crew...lol. Well trained. "Afghanistan was a battle. Iraq was a battle. The war goes on." Quote Link to comment
LowranceTracker1 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Post that you left a $100 bill in the cache, and then wait and see if he comes running..... Make sure you let the regulars in your geocaching community know it's a trap, then wait for him camoflauged..... Wait days? Nah.. an hour or two at most, that sucker will come sprinting! Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 quote:I would simply delete the log. If you take something and don't leave something I'm not giving you credit for the find....Anyway, that's my sugestion. Delete the log. If he cares about his find count he'll at least make a trip to the dollar store for some trade items. I vehemently disagree with the concept of deleting legit 'found it logs'. I agree that what this guy does is rude and thoughtless, but his finds were earned just as surely as all of ours were. If we started deleting logs of people who don't trade fairly, there's gonna be a lot of log purging going on. Where does it end? You delete logs of people whose trade you didn't approve of, then delete the logs of people you don't like, then they start deleting your found it logs in retaliation (this stuff has already been going on and it can get ugly). I think we should leave all legit 'found it' logs be (unless they contain profanity, or unwanted spoilers). There are other ways to deal with this kind of stuff. You handled this guy in the best way possible. He was sent a polite e-mail explaining that what he was doing is frowned upon. He is obviously unrepentant, so there is little more you can do than write him off as a jerk and move on. Starting a war with other geocachers in your area, no matter how big a cad they are, is not a good idea. It does not benefit the sport and can only lead to trouble. "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm Quote Link to comment
+robert Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Brian on this one. ~robert www.CacheGear.com Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 quote:I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Brian on this one. Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 I hardly trade any more. Most caches that have been around awhile just have a lot of junk left no matter how nice the original loot when first placed. That just tells me that most or a lot of people really don't trade equal. Not that's a big deal for me since it's the "hunt" that's really important. I wouldn't get to concerned about the "loot" in a cache. You're not going to strike it rich! As long as there's a few items for kids to swap. ALan Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Alan2:I hardly trade any more. Most caches that have been around awhile just have a lot of junk left no matter how nice the original loot when first placed. That just tells me that most or a lot of people really don't trade equal. That, and that people who are 'above trading' none-the-less feel entitled to complain about a problem they are doing nothing to alleviate. Quote Link to comment
+Xitron Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 We know that most cachers do not visit these boards so it is up to us that do to try and improve caches. If you carry a small stock of trade items and come accross a depleted cache, fill it up. If a cache has nothing but broken toys in it then take nothing but leave a decent item. I have started doing this and it makes me feel good to think I may be improving the next cachers experience. If the items in caches improve I think that others will see this and then in turn improve their own trades. Anyone else think this will work, or do you think they'll take the outdoor watch I place and put in a mctoy? Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 quote: We know that most cachers do not visit these boards so it is up to us that do to try and improve caches. If you carry a small stock of trade items and come accross a depleted cache, fill it up. If a cache has nothing but broken toys in it then take nothing but leave a decent item. I have started doing this and it makes me feel good to think I may be improving the next cachers experience. If the items in caches improve I think that others will see this and then in turn improve their own trades. You said it well Xitron. This is a great idea for every geocacher. Is it our job to maintain the caches of others? No. But does our doing so help our sport? You bet! Bring along a cache repair kit. Some duct tape, some Ziplocs, an extra log book, a pencil and maybe even a small Rubbermaid container, just in case. "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm Quote Link to comment
+Bloencustoms Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 You could allways just take the rock (or other poor trade item) and TN leave rock in one of his. When next he maintains his cache, he'll see the rock and perhaps get the picture. I have a rusty allen wrench that someone traded for a flashlight just waiting to be left in their next cache. Quote Link to comment
+robert Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: quote:I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Brian on this one. Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day That's true! Sweet.... ~robert www.CacheGear.com Quote Link to comment
+Brian - Team A.I. Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 quote: May 18 by tishman (20 found) Since it was my birthday, I decided to cache with my kids. This was the second find of the day for myself, moocow, moontic and sirRoger. Sir Roger with his long legs found it first making it to the probable location ahead of the rest of us. Nice location.......moocow left her travel bug and wishs him to go to Japan; happy trails MoJo. TFTC It's not how many cache' you find ,but how you find many cache'. tishman WTF is TFTC? Brian Team A.I. Quote Link to comment
Lesbaru Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Learning, learning, learning! I've been caching with two 10-year-olds. Lemme tell ya, they treasure the WEIRDEST loot from the caches! They pick from my stock of goodies what they want to put in the cache in trade. I make sure our trade trinkets aren't junk (in my opinion), and we have been making some of our own trade trinkets (zipper pulls). I'd feel wretched if someone thought we were ripping off the cache! (And the guy who is brazenly playing the game with poor sportsmanship deserves all the bad karma he collects in this life!) Quote Link to comment
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