Logging Etiquette

1.1k · April 3, 2002

I realize that there is no written "rule" that we have to post a log online when we find a cache...obviously there would be no way to enforce a rule like this...but my own personal opinion is that it is plain and simple curtesy to the cache owner to do so (as a way of showing our appreciation for their efforts in creating, placing, and maintaining the cache...as well as to give future cache hunters some feedback about what they might expect to find/not find). Personally I feel that, unless a person has a valid excuse for not doing so*, they should ALWAYS post an online log of their find.

I place caches with the understanding that not everyone will log their finds online…and I accept it. (It's a free country (where I place my caches, anyway), and if I place a cache on public land, I've voluntarily given up control over what people choose to do with it.) But accepting it, and liking it are two different things. I'm confused by those who seem surprised or put off by those of us who consider it thoughtless and selfish to choose not to sign the log.

*And, to be honest, I'm hard pressed to think of a valid excuse. You have to have access to a computer to find out about the cache and get the coordinates to it...so logging the find shouldn't be an issue. Perhaps it's the fear of someone seeing that you were off "boondoggling" instead of doing something productive, and logging the find would put you in the doghouse? The one exception that comes to mind that IS valid would be in the case of those who stumble across the cache by accident. Even for those that have a computer, it's not like they made a deliberate effort to search your cache out with the intention of hunting it...so, in my mind, they have no obligation to "give back"...since they took nothing in the first place.

____________

I'm curious to know how others feel:

April 3, 2002

1 vote for number two. There would be little sense of community here if we weren't sharing our stories and experiences. These forums are secondary to the cache logs. However, not everyone cares about the sense of community. I can live with that too.

rdw

April 3, 2002

You ask for no name calling but the spin in the servey sure does a lot of name calling if your view is diffrent than your's

Choices:
It should go without saying...the rule may not be written, but it's understood: ALL finds should be logged online. Those who choose not to are behaving lazily and/or selfishly.

Looks like name calling....

The curteous thing to do is to log your finds online. B]But hey, if you choose not to, no skin off my back.[/b]

Not a very positive attitude and sportman like choice here.

That's what the physical logbook is for. I've done my duty and given feedback to the cache owner. ]

Again whats with the attitude?

It's a free country. Whether I log my finds or not is my own business, and mine alone. If you don't like it, then don't place caches.

So with this choice I'm an a-hole if I select this one.

None of the above. (Please explain...and no flaming or name calling, please.)

Why change the tone of the servey. With any answer other that to Log the cache online, you must be:

lazily and/or selfishly

You could care less about the sport

Your a smuck

BB

1.1k · April 3, 2002

BB,

You have an interesting perspective...which happens to be very different from my own. But one thing I've learned about sharing thoughts online is that it's very easy to state things in ways that (inadvertantly or not) end up offending others.

In my poll choices, I attempted to provide possibilities that would represent the various viewpoints that people might have. I don't think my wording implied the negativity that you are trying to attribute them with. My intent of this survey was to get a feel for where others stand on the issue. While I have my own opinion, I understand that that's not the ONLY (or even necessarily the most valid) one. There are positive arguments to be made for EACH of the choices I made. Choosing any of them doesn't make you a schmuck or an a-hole. And as for the "lazy and selfish", please notice that I labeled the behavior as such...not the person.

lazy "resistant to work or exhersion". Let's face it, we all have our lazy moments. Sometimes we just choose to make a trend of that behavior in certain activities that we participate in. Perhaps I'm a conscientious cache-logger...while at the same time ignoring my housework while I'm online. That is lazy behavior, too...just in another activity. For my thoughts on "selfish", please see this thread. (Plus I posed a question to you there. I think your answer might help me understand your perspective a bit more.)

I'm curious to hear others' opinions on how I've stated this. I won't post another poll, but feel free to send me an e-mail with either positive or negative feedback. I'd like to learn how to improve my ability to communicate my thoughts and understand others' viewpoints better, without at the same time offending or needlessly criticizing others. How better could I have worded these poll choices to reflect an accurate picture of how people feel, without making it appear that one choice is better or worse than the others. (Perhaps I shouldn't have shared my views preceding the poll question, and just listed the options, with no bias attached?)

Thank you, BB, for helping me see that I still have progress to make in learning how to state things in a neutral and non-offensive way, and for showing me a glimpse of how you see the world. My first reaction to your comments is that you were deliberately twisting my poll choices, and putting words in my mouth that weren't intended...but perhaps, as you've misinterpreted my words, I've done the same with yours. So I'll assume that you had no ill intent to stir the pot, but that you honestly felt that's the message my words were conveying.

Let me assure you, name calling wasn't my intent at all. I'd just like to know what the concensus is on online logging etiquette. (I'm curious how you would suggest I word five choices for this poll. Perhaps we can ask Jeremy to close this thread out, and post your suggested choices in its place.)

April 3, 2002

Zuckerruebensirup,

quote:
you've misinterpreted my words

I may have! And you're right I had no ill intent to stir the pot, and I honestly felt that was the message being conveyed. Friends and Colleagues who know me personally know that is not the way I am.

I have been taken back on the posting and emails I have received sinceI posted that I don't log online all of my finds.

You would think I was OSAMA bin Banzai

As you asked, I would recommend wording for the survey as follows:

Choices:

1. All finds should be logged online. I believe that Geocaching is a partnership between the hider and finder and without making an online log entree I am not playing in good faith.

2. It's the courteous thing to do but, and I'm courteous. Hey, if you choose not to, thats ok too.

3. That's what the physical logbook is for. I've done my part by writing in the logbook no other notification is needed.

4. If I update the online log for my find, it is my decision. If I don't I'm still a Geocacher and am play in good faith.

5. None of the above. Post your answer below.

Your Thoughts?

BB

April 3, 2002

Zuckerruebensirup,

quote:
you've misinterpreted my words

I may have! And you're right I had no ill intent to stir the pot, and I honestly felt that was the message being conveyed. Friends and Colleagues who know me personally know that is not the way I am.

I have been taken back on the posting and emails I have received sinceI posted that I don't log online all of my finds.

You would think I was OSAMA bin Banzai

As you asked, I would recommend wording for the survey as follows:

Choices:

1. All finds should be logged online. I believe that Geocaching is a partnership between the hider and finder and without making an online log entree I am not playing in good faith.

2. It's the courteous thing to do but, and I'm courteous. Hey, if you choose not to, thats ok too.

3. That's what the physical logbook is for. I've done my part by writing in the logbook no other notification is needed.

4. If I update the online log for my find, it is my decision. If I don't I'm still a Geocacher and am play in good faith.

5. None of the above. Post your answer below.

Your Thoughts?

BB

3k · April 3, 2002

It's true that most of the stuff posted above the poll exhibited a definite bias; I would say it was highly prejudicial in nature. That's why I didn't participate in the poll.

I like reading the logs, but if someone chooses not to log a cache online that's fine by me. I don't understand the passion you have been putting into what I consider to be a very minor issue these past few days. But certainly, you are entitled to your opinion.

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Buckaroo Banzai:
Your Thoughts?

Sounds reasonable. I've reposted the poll here. Thank you for the input.

Z

April 3, 2002

BassoonPilot,

I thought it was minor as well, until I started getting the hate emails (and the names I've been called from my fellow caches, I will not name anyone)

Well I stood my ground (forgetting to battle only the important issues, and this is not one of them.) and have seen not all into the sport are sportmen (or sportwomen).

I'll make this my last post on this subject matter, and go back to caching and enjoying the sport.

Please, no more hate emails!

BB

[This message was edited by Buckaroo Banzai on April 03, 2002 at 01:53 PM.]

[This message was edited by Buckaroo Banzai on April 03, 2002 at 01:54 PM.]

April 3, 2002

I'm personally having a difficult time believing THIS REALLY MATTERS in the grand scheme of things! PulEASE!

And now, there's yet another stinkin' pole out there.

Dang. Enough is enough!

BB, I for one, support your choice to "log or not log" as you see fit at the cache or on the cache page. What's the big deal?

Remember...this is a GAME. Don't take the FUN out of it!

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
It's true that most of the stuff posted above the poll exhibited a definite bias; I would say it was highly prejudicial in nature.

I can understand how you might feel that the opinions I expressed in preface to the poll choices were highly prejudicial. (And of course it exhibited a bias...it was my opinion, which is by definition baised.) In retrospect, I think it would make more sense to NOT share my opinions first, but to simply state the question, and then list the choices.

I'm curious, though...do you also feel the choices themselves showed bias? Or merely that my lead-in set the tone wrong before people even had a chance to read them?

quote:
I don't understand the passion you have been putting into what I consider to be a very minor issue these past few days. But certainly, you are entitled to your opinion.

The passion I've been displaying isn't about whether or not people log their finds online. As I've stated before, it doesn't bother me enough to keep me from placing caches...so obviously it's not that big of a deal to me. The thing that gets my blood flowing is the cavalier attitude that many people seem to have about doing whatever feels good to them...and everyone else be damned. I notice more and more a selfish trend in our society...people who seem to feel that they deserve to get things for free, and that they shouldn't have to do anything in return.

If you feel that's a minor issue, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as well. (The logging issue is just one example of that trend. I apologize if I've been too vocal about it here.)

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Cachemere:
One wasn't enough?

I apologize for making an additional poll on this. But since there were already votes on this one, it was too late to just modify it. And since I had received feedback that it contained a lot of bias and negativity, I felt it was only fair to re-state it in the more neutral wording that was suggested. I don't mean to beat a dead horse. I just wanted to get a feel for a summarized consensus on the topic, since there has been a lot of random discussion flying around of late.

quote:
I'm personally having a difficult time believing THIS REALLY MATTERS in the grand scheme of things! PulEASE!

I didn't realize we were supposed to limit our topics of discussion here only to things that matter in the grand scheme of things. Other than the issue of preserving our natural areas, while allowing as many people to enjoy them as possible (including our grandchildren's grandchildren)...I think that very FEW things discussed here really matter in the grand scheme of things.

But again, that's just my opinion. I'm sure there are many who'll disagree.

3k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:
The thing that gets my blood flowing is the cavalier attitude that many people seem to have about doing whatever feels good to _them_...and everyone else be damned. I notice more and more a selfish trend in our society...people who seem to feel that they deserve to get things for free, and that they shouldn't have to do anything in return.

But it is only your presumption that this is why people don't post logs online; it does not appear to be based on any factual information.

quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

If you feel that's a minor issue, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as well. (The logging issue is just one example of that trend. ...)

And as this is a forum dealing with the sport/game of geocaching, that's what I'll contain my responses to. I do feel the logging issue is minor. I don't presume to know the reasons behind people not logging their finds on the website, but no doubt there are numerous reasons, and at least some of them may be valid. It is wrong to bunch all who fail to log together in a group and defame them. And that is my considered opinion.

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
But it is only your presumption that this is why people don't post logs online; it does not appear to be based on any factual information.

Actually, I didn't make that presumption. (My original thought was that they didn't post because of "Big Brother" Phobia.) It was suggested by macro that maybe people don't post because they aren't "into" it. My response was that those people are thinking only of themselves, which is thoughtless and selfish. From that point on, I've merely been responding to comments made to my statements.

I'd like to hear from those who choose not to post online about why they choose not to. (And actually, a few people have already shared. Like, for example, if a cache is so poorly done, that you don't have anything good to say...it might be better to say nothing at all. I think that's good feedback.) But as Moun10Bike pointed out, this forum probably doesn't contain a good cross-section of those types of people. If they don't like doing the "online" part of it, and only come here out of necessity to get the coordinates...they aren't likely to participate in this forum, either.

[This message was edited by Zuckerruebensirup on April 03, 2002 at 03:28 PM.]

3k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
But it is only your presumption that this is why people don't post logs online; it does not appear to be based on any factual information.

quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:
I didn't make that presumption. It was suggested by macro that maybe people don't post because they aren't "into" it. My response was that those people are thinking only of themselves, which is thoughtless and selfish.

There you have it. Call it what you want; it's just a matter of semantics. Regardless, that "response" was not based on any factual information; it was based on your presumption. And as you stated, your later statements elaborated upon that, erroneous in my opinion, presumption.

Now that that's cleared up, let's agree to move on.

6.5k · April 3, 2002

i picked the 2nd choice, but i wouldnt make it issue. i would rather have ppl find the cache and not log it online then feel they shouldnt go look for the cache because they may not log it online for whatever reason. if they dont go looking they wont get out and travel the trails which is the whole reason I place caches, not to get a bunch of "hits" and "log entries" logged in at some internet site.

now dont get me wrong its great to get entries that tell you whats going on. exspecially the ones that tell about how the and area is doing. my favorite logs to see are "found cache in good shape, TNLN, had great time, thanks"

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
Call it what you want; it's just a matter of semantics. Regardless, that "response" was not based on any factual information; it was based on your presumption. And as you stated, your later statements elaborated upon that, erroneous in my opinion, presumption.

You're entitled to your erroneous opinion.

quote:
Now that that's cleared up, let's agree to move on.

Yes, let's!

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
Call it what you want; it's just a matter of semantics. Regardless, that "response" was not based on any factual information; it was based on your presumption. And as you stated, your later statements elaborated upon that, erroneous in my opinion, presumption.

You're entitled to your erroneous opinion.

quote:
Now that that's cleared up, let's agree to move on.

Yes, let's!

April 3, 2002

1. people who are *playing* this *game* don't have constant web access? Perhaps they access the site from a library or some other limited venue. They print out a bunch of cache pages and hunt for them when/if they can....and log it as such in the paper log.

2. LIFE INTRUDES. You know.. *Life*? Perhaps some tragedy (large or small) occurred... and the last thing that is on their mind is logging a cache.

Just a couple of ideas; apologies if someone else has offered these in other threads or at other times.

The internet is an "open" forum ... at least for now. Until we ALL have to pay to see content, lay off the "should do" "must do" stuff.

------------------------

I'm new here, be gentle.

April 3, 2002

1. people who are *playing* this *game* don't have constant web access? Perhaps they access the site from a library or some other limited venue. They print out a bunch of cache pages and hunt for them when/if they can....and log it as such in the paper log.

2. LIFE INTRUDES. You know.. *Life*? Perhaps some tragedy (large or small) occurred... and the last thing that is on their mind is logging a cache.

Just a couple of ideas; apologies if someone else has offered these in other threads or at other times.

The internet is an "open" forum ... at least for now. Until we ALL have to pay to see content, lay off the "should do" "must do" stuff.

------------------------

I'm new here, be gentle.

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cachebaby:

Ever consider...

1. people who are *playing* this *game* don't have constant web access? Perhaps they access the site from a library or some other limited venue. They print out a bunch of cache pages and hunt for them when/if they can....and log it as such in the paper log.

Sure. If it were me, I'd try to catch up with the logs eventually. But I can understand that it could turn into a real hassle, and wouldn't feel too badly about them not catching up. There case is different than someone who just doesn't feel like logging them, even though they have ready access.

quote:
2. LIFE INTRUDES. You know.. *Life*? Perhaps some tragedy (large or small) occurred... and the last thing that is on their mind is logging a cache.

And yes, this one is definitely legitimate. But this one isn't so much a "choice not to log", but rather a special circumstance that would cause them to miss a log (or logs) that they would otherwise have logged.

quote:
Just a couple of ideas; apologies if someone else has offered these in other threads or at other times.

No need to apologize. They are valid examples which are applicable to this thread. I appreciate your sharing them.

quote:
The internet is an "open" forum ... at least for now. Until we ALL have to pay to see content, lay off the "should do" "must do" stuff.

In my experience, when people practice common courtesy, things are left to their discretion a lot longer. It's when we can't moderate ourselves that they start slapping rules and restrictions on us.

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cachebaby:

Ever consider...

1. people who are *playing* this *game* don't have constant web access? Perhaps they access the site from a library or some other limited venue. They print out a bunch of cache pages and hunt for them when/if they can....and log it as such in the paper log.

Sure. If it were me, I'd try to catch up with the logs eventually. But I can understand that it could turn into a real hassle, and wouldn't feel too badly about them not catching up. There case is different than someone who just doesn't feel like logging them, even though they have ready access.

quote:
2. LIFE INTRUDES. You know.. *Life*? Perhaps some tragedy (large or small) occurred... and the last thing that is on their mind is logging a cache.

And yes, this one is definitely legitimate. But this one isn't so much a "choice not to log", but rather a special circumstance that would cause them to miss a log (or logs) that they would otherwise have logged.

quote:
Just a couple of ideas; apologies if someone else has offered these in other threads or at other times.

No need to apologize. They are valid examples which are applicable to this thread. I appreciate your sharing them.

quote:
The internet is an "open" forum ... at least for now. Until we ALL have to pay to see content, lay off the "should do" "must do" stuff.

In my experience, when people practice common courtesy, things are left to their discretion a lot longer. It's when we can't moderate ourselves that they start slapping rules and restrictions on us.

5k · April 3, 2002

I'm really surprised Bonzai has been getting negative email.

Bonzai, I for one am glad you spoke up. While I have mostly the same opinions as Z, I certainly don't think folks should be chastised for offering another point of view.

And as several people stated, logging finds is certainly small in the big scheme of things, but to me it's a big part of the game.

When I'm stuck here in my dorm room, oftentimes, rather than do homework, I cache through other folks' online logs.

Other times, both before and after I've found a cache, I enjoy reading other logs from that cache to compare my experience to others. I laugh when I read that they took the same "wrong" trail that I did, or that they enjoyed the same view that I did. It's a connection that I wouldn't otherwise had if folks didn't log online.

If I were to place a cache, which I haven't yet done, my biggest enjoyment would be from reading the logs, online and paper. The online logs gives almost a real-time view of the cache, and the paper logs are more of an archive.

Certainly there are a number of folks out there who can't regularly log their finds (or no-finds). I understand. But there are also those out there who don't log there finds just because they don't want to take the time. I would like to appeal to those people to take the time, as there are lots of people (I'm one) who especially enjoy reading logs.

Of course, I'm probably preaching to the choir, as I'm betting that a higher percentage of forum readers post their logs online than do non-forum readers.

Jamie

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:
I'm really surprised Bonzai has been getting negative email.

Yeah, I was bummed when I read that, too.

quote:
Bonzai, I for one am glad you spoke up. While I have mostly the same opinions as Z, I certainly don't think folks should be chastised for offering another point of view.

I second that! (Except for the part about "mostly" agreeing with me. I happen to completely agree with me. )

Regarding the rest of your post, I think your level-headed appeal is an approach that will likely have much more success at 'winning' the other side over, than my emotional rants about how selfish they are.

Thank you for being the voice of reason in a discussion that has gotten a bit out of hand.

1.1k · April 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:
I'm really surprised Bonzai has been getting negative email.

Yeah, I was bummed when I read that, too.

quote:
Bonzai, I for one am glad you spoke up. While I have mostly the same opinions as Z, I certainly don't think folks should be chastised for offering another point of view.

I second that! (Except for the part about "mostly" agreeing with me. I happen to completely agree with me. )

Regarding the rest of your post, I think your level-headed appeal is an approach that will likely have much more success at 'winning' the other side over, than my emotional rants about how selfish they are.

Thank you for being the voice of reason in a discussion that has gotten a bit out of hand.

1.4k · April 3, 2002

Geez! Zuckerruebensirup posts a simple question, then gets ripped up one side and down the other because the manner in which the questions are stated is a bit biased! C'mon, nearly every 'professional' poll I've ever answered has had biased questions! How else can they get the results to support their position?

BTW, I voted for the first choice. There's no real reason to not log your finds, unless you are a non-cacher who stumbles upon a cache accidentally. And if you are reading this forum, you don't qualify.

1.4k · April 3, 2002

Geez! Zuckerruebensirup posts a simple question, then gets ripped up one side and down the other because the manner in which the questions are stated is a bit biased! C'mon, nearly every 'professional' poll I've ever answered has had biased questions! How else can they get the results to support their position?

BTW, I voted for the first choice. There's no real reason to not log your finds, unless you are a non-cacher who stumbles upon a cache accidentally. And if you are reading this forum, you don't qualify.

5k · April 3, 2002

Zucker,

I don't think your posts were not level-headed. I simply wanted to add that I was in agreement with you. I didn't want you (or other readers of this forum) to think you were the only person out there that likes to read the online logs.

Tonight, I sat here typing a long drawn out email to a friend that lives out of state. As I wrote, my email notify popped up a number of times. Each time I checked, it was a note from one of the caches I'm watching. Most of them were from the same geocacher. It was fun to read about how they went around through Memphis and bagged half-a-dozen caches.

Their logs were short, but even still, I liked reading, in nearly real-time, the story of their trip around the city.

That's one of the beautiful things about this activity. I can take part from my computer as I work on something else. It's the little things like online logs that get us together as a group.

Bonzai, I can't (and I won't try) to make you (or others) log their finds online. I only present my side so you can see how some other geocachers enjoy this hobby. Your voice is important to this discussion. I hope some nasty-email-sending-people didn't irritate you enough to dismiss us altogether.

Jamie

April 3, 2002

It gives me great joy to read people's logs to my caches. But I understand that some prefer to be more private - and that is fine with me.

Logs are great though - they help alert me to any problems with the cache I've created.

Log on!

T.I.

Terra?Indaga, "Earth Searcher"

April 3, 2002

It gives me great joy to read people's logs to my caches. But I understand that some prefer to be more private - and that is fine with me.

Logs are great though - they help alert me to any problems with the cache I've created.

Log on!

T.I.

Terra?Indaga, "Earth Searcher"

April 4, 2002

quote:

_You could care less about the sport_

_Your a smuck_

BB

I believe that would be "You're a schmuck"

Of course that's just my opinion

Kernbob in HappyVille

3k · April 4, 2002

Of course, that's Mister Kernbob in HappyVille.

3k · April 4, 2002

Of course, that's Mister Kernbob in HappyVille.

April 4, 2002

Think how many caches you could have visited in all the time some of you wasted typing long-winded verbal vomit about the WAY, or the TONE in which a question was asked!!! Back off, go outside, and relax....This poll is not that important!

Dave

We go until we get there.....

3k · April 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Team Finn:
Think how many caches you could have visited in all the time some of you wasted typing long-winded verbal vomit about the WAY, or the TONE in which a question was asked!!! Back off, go outside, and relax....This poll is not that important!

Good advice. I picked up 3 before lunch today, Dave. How'd you do?

April 4, 2002

I log... ALWAYS! how else would you get those find counts to go up? Which brings up another question. who verifies the finds??? Many virtual caches need some code entered to verify... Wouldn't it be neat if you had to give the password [given at the cache] to verify a find. I mean, what's to stop someone from just logging a bunch of "Found it! Great Cache?!? " comments, just to get his found counter to go up???

Ken

April 4, 2002

I log... ALWAYS! how else would you get those find counts to go up? Which brings up another question. who verifies the finds??? Many virtual caches need some code entered to verify... Wouldn't it be neat if you had to give the password [given at the cache] to verify a find. I mean, what's to stop someone from just logging a bunch of "Found it! Great Cache?!? " comments, just to get his found counter to go up???

Ken

April 4, 2002

I've logged all my finds, but I don't really care if someone logs a find on my caches or not. What I care about is that people had fun finding it.

The only time I feel it would be poor manners not to post online is if you visited a cache and saw a problem that the owner should be made aware of.

Other than that ... have fun!

WJJagFan

Logging Etiquette

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation