Golden Rule

March 15, 2002

A topic that has been hashed rehashed then mashed. However let's give it another slant. I like to refer to it as the 'Geo' Golden Rule. Always leave a cache better than you found it. The people I have turned onto the sport have invariably heard this come out of my mouth. Now, having said that, the question. How do you leave a cache?

[This message was edited by cache-potato on March 16, 2002 at 02:15 PM.]

March 15, 2002

Most of the time I try to leave something of greater value, but I think it just all depends on the situation. I guess I just try to make sure it's worthwhile for the next person to happen upon it.

3k · March 16, 2002

Something to consider besides the contents of the cache container is the manner in which one rehides the cache.

I have often noticed that over time, many caches with higher difficulty ratings seem to become less and less well hidden . . . I have encountered a few caches that were supposedly "4-star finds" when placed that were sitting out in plain view.

So it's at least equally important that finders make the effort to rehide the cache as best they can to match the cache owner's original rating.

March 16, 2002

If I'm caching with the kids, they like to trade, so I always try to leave it a little richer than I found it, especially if the cache is looking a little picked-over.

If it's just me, I usually don't trade anything unless I see something really cool that I have to have. Otherwise, I'll leave one of my signature items (a geocaching ceramic tile) and maybe a $1 coin.

I always try to re-hide the cache as good as I'd like to see it hidden if I were the cache owner. I often come across caches which are barely covered, etc., and susceptible to plundering.

Lately I've been finding caches that are not hidden in "safe" locations (not much I can do about that) or don't have a geocaching letter or aren't water tight, etc., so I've started carrying extra ziplocs and geocaching letters to put in them.

March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cache-potato:
How do you leave a cache?

Hmmm ... I wonder if the people who leave this kind of stuff will answer your poll honestly.

All of this came from one cache during a maintenance visit, which didn't start out with any junk in it.

~Rich in NEPA~

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cache-potato:
How do you leave a cache?

Hmmm ... I wonder if the people who leave this kind of stuff will answer your poll honestly.

All of this came from one cache during a maintenance visit, which didn't start out with any junk in it.

~Rich in NEPA~

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

1k · March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rich in NEPA:

All of this came from _one_ cache during a maintenance visit, which didn't start out with any junk in it.

The same people that open their door at a stop light and empty out a full ashtray ... with no embrassment ... probably visited that cache

And if you read this post ... and recognize some of the stuff in Rich's photo ... I hope you take offense at my response ... then go out and get a sense of responsibility.

Sorry to everyone else but that just elevates my blood pressure !

1k · March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rich in NEPA:

All of this came from _one_ cache during a maintenance visit, which didn't start out with any junk in it.

The same people that open their door at a stop light and empty out a full ashtray ... with no embrassment ... probably visited that cache

And if you read this post ... and recognize some of the stuff in Rich's photo ... I hope you take offense at my response ... then go out and get a sense of responsibility.

Sorry to everyone else but that just elevates my blood pressure !

March 16, 2002

Not only do I try to leave it richer, I try to leave it more varied. If there are no toys for kids I'll leave toys. No useful items for adults in the cache, I'll leave something for them.

geospotter

March 16, 2002

What's with leaving matches, lighters and other highly flammable substances in caches? Is this the result of armchair adventurers watching too many Chuck Norris movies? These kinds of things are definitely NOT appropriate in parks, forests and similar recreation areas, particularly during drought seasons like we are currently experiencing! I have just read a few cache found logs where somebody is leaving bottle rockets as trade items. Uffda!!!

~Rich in NEPA~

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

March 16, 2002

What's with leaving matches, lighters and other highly flammable substances in caches? Is this the result of armchair adventurers watching too many Chuck Norris movies? These kinds of things are definitely NOT appropriate in parks, forests and similar recreation areas, particularly during drought seasons like we are currently experiencing! I have just read a few cache found logs where somebody is leaving bottle rockets as trade items. Uffda!!!

~Rich in NEPA~

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

March 16, 2002

I traded when I first started caching. But it soon become pointless. I started the day with one thing, put that in the first cache, put what I took from the first cache into the second cache and so on until I had 1 item left which would be my first trade the next time I cached. About that time, I realized that all of this trading is pointless for me. So I now rarely trade, only if there is something I want, like one of the original geocoins. I will move travel bugs without exchanging anything. There was a thread long ago where we decided that travel bugs were independent of other trading so I feel OK doing that.

rdw

March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rich in NEPA:
Hmmm ... I wonder if the people who leave _this_ kind of stuff will answer your poll honestly.

What kills me is the name on the ticket stub. Family Values Tour? Obviously the concept was lost on them!

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rich in NEPA:
Hmmm ... I wonder if the people who leave _this_ kind of stuff will answer your poll honestly.

What kills me is the name on the ticket stub. Family Values Tour? Obviously the concept was lost on them!

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

March 16, 2002

If a bandaid is garbage then I have to plead guilty to leaving behind garbage. I also have no intention of stopping. Now trading a bandaid for a pocketknife isn't something I do but that's not the topic being discussed.

9.2k · March 16, 2002

Have to agree with Team Dragon on this one. Bandages are not a bad idea to leave in a cache (especially if it's a MissyRileigh cache ).

9.2k · March 16, 2002

Have to agree with Team Dragon on this one. Bandages are not a bad idea to leave in a cache (especially if it's a MissyRileigh cache ).

March 16, 2002

I don't agree with any of the poll choices.

Part of the Geocaching game is treasure hunting: Getting a prize in reward for finding a cache. If you consider it a 'golden rule' to always trade up, then you are dismissing part of the game.

Some people will always leave more than they take and some will take more then they leave.

Some people will drop off a nice prize and take nothing, some people will pick a nice prize and leave nothing. It's part of the game, and will even out. Being overly concerned about cache degridations takes away part of the fun. By all means, go out and restock caches sometimes, but don't begrudge other for enjoying thier reward!

P.S. I just added a laser pointer to Vid.Ex. during a maintenence visit today...go get it!

Oh, and if it's you, Cache-potato, trade up! []

ApK

quote:
Originally posted by cache-potato:
A topic that has been hashed rehashed then mashed. However let's give it another slant. I like to refer to it as the 'Geo' Golden Rule. _Always leave a cache better than you found it._ The people I have turned onto the sport have invaribly heard this come out of my mouth. Now, having said that, the question. How do you leave a cache?

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/11902_900.gif

March 16, 2002

I don't agree with any of the poll choices.

Part of the Geocaching game is treasure hunting: Getting a prize in reward for finding a cache. If you consider it a 'golden rule' to always trade up, then you are dismissing part of the game.

Some people will always leave more than they take and some will take more then they leave.

Some people will drop off a nice prize and take nothing, some people will pick a nice prize and leave nothing. It's part of the game, and will even out. Being overly concerned about cache degridations takes away part of the fun. By all means, go out and restock caches sometimes, but don't begrudge other for enjoying thier reward!

P.S. I just added a laser pointer to Vid.Ex. during a maintenence visit today...go get it!

Oh, and if it's you, Cache-potato, trade up! []

ApK

quote:
Originally posted by cache-potato:
A topic that has been hashed rehashed then mashed. However let's give it another slant. I like to refer to it as the 'Geo' Golden Rule. _Always leave a cache better than you found it._ The people I have turned onto the sport have invaribly heard this come out of my mouth. Now, having said that, the question. How do you leave a cache?

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/11902_900.gif

March 16, 2002

Originally posted by ApK:
... edit ...

Some people will always leave more than they take and some will take more then they leave.

Some people will drop off a nice prize and take nothing, some people will pick a nice prize and leave nothing. It's part of the game, and will even out.

I'm not too sure it 'evens out'. Most cache contents seem to deteriorate over time.

I personally like to leave decent stuff in caches. I buy toys and gadgets in the $2-3 range. Stuff for kids and grown ups. Even dogs! Sometimes I leave a custom Music CD. It's fun passing along neat stuff!

Oh, well, there's .02 for you.

Bluespreacher

March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by ApK:
It's part of the game, and will even out. Being overly concerned about cache degridations takes away part of the fun.

Sorry, ApK, I disagree. Cache degradation has been discussed here before and many consider it to be an issue of considerable importance. New cachers (like yourself) might be turned off when on their first few caches all they find is geotrash. Doesn't look good for our sport. Park managers could also decide to pull caches permanently if, when they check on them, all they find is crap. And I've never seen it even out. Occasionally, some of the cachers here will "upgrade" a cache and it is very much appreciated. It's good for everyone. But, leaving less than you took is not "part of the game", it's part of a problem with the game. One we should all try to correct.

geospotter

March 16, 2002

APK brings up a valid point. Ocassionally (and I love it when this happens) the hider will put in some big ticket items. When this does happen, I believe the hider has no expectations of the finder leaving 'equal or greater'. Case in point: 100 BUCKS! Faithwalker, DaMama and Catwoman hit it big. Isn't that great? Sometimes the cache owner puts a nice reward for the first finder with (I'm sure) no expectations of an equitable trade being made. And, I am sure, that from time to time expensive items are cached to reward the finders for a long or arduous journey to the location. BUT in THIS poll and on THIS topic we would like to speak in generalities. Faithwalker, DaMama and Catwoman, however fortunate, (ok I'm jealous) are the exception and not the rule. --CP

[This message was edited by cache-potato on March 16, 2002 at 02:31 PM.]

March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by geospotter:
Sorry, ApK, I disagree. Cache degradation has been discussed here before and many consider it to be an issue of considerable importance. New cachers (like yourself) might be turned off when on their first few caches all they find is geotrash. Doesn't look good for our sport. Park managers could also decide to pull caches permanently if, when they check on them, all they find is crap. And I've never seen it even out. Occasionally, some of the cachers here will "upgrade" a cache and it is very much appreciated. It's good for everyone. But, leaving less than you took is not "part of the game", it's part of a problem with the game. One we should all try to correct.

geospotter

Then why leave containers of keychains and chachkies in the woods? Just cache a log book and pen, and, unless someone steals the pen, it can't be degraded! Or forbid any cache contents other then then, say, calling cards or other trivial-value signature items for souveniers.

I don't think that would be as much fun, though.

Is the point of this game to maintain the dollar-value of hidden tupperware containers?

You want, in part, for first timers to have a good experience. Sure. Newbees should be EXPECTED to trade down. If someone finds thier first cache, and it has all great stuff in it, should they not take anything, because all they have in thier pocket is a golf tee and a guitar pick? What fun is that?

I think more to the point, or at least more in spirit with what you say above, would be not to ask "not to trade down", but simply "to leave something you think is nice."

After all, 'one man's trash is another man's treasure' and all that. I might think that a used 10 cent super ball is just swell ( I love those things), and be happy to trade a laser pointer for it (I get laser pointers cheap...). Someone else might consider it a degradation.

I guess my main problem with over-concern for degradation is losing the 'treasure' aspect of the game. If returning dollar-for-dollar (or more typically, dime-for-dime) value has got to be the golden rule, then perhaps the golden rule should be to CREATE caches with items equal to or better then the prizes you have taken? How's that sound? Then, at least, you can enjoy the reward of the moment of discovery, and still keep the game worth playing for others.

BTW, you call me new, but in a game that's only existed for less than 2 years, who ISN'T new?

March 16, 2002

ApK,

First let me say that I agree with a number of your points. I, too, like those super balls!

Second, perhaps the proper wording should be, as you say, leave something you think is nice. Most caches contain a variety of values and while I would like to think that most people would be fair in their trades, this, in my experience, isn't always the case. And soon we are left with 5 or 6 old golf balls, broken toys, and a surgical glove (which I found in a cache). My wife now refuses to even touch most caches. If all you have with you is a golf tee, take one of the used golf balls instead of the PDA. Maintaining the dollar-value of the cache is not the POINT of the game, but it is a part of it.

You say create caches with prizes better than the ones I have found. I am doing exactly that. My new cache contains nearly 60 items ranging from 25-cent items to $5 items. It will take some effort to find so I will reward those that do. Will they trade fairly? Most will, some won't. All I'm trying to do here is educate some of the readers to be reasonable.

You mention leaving nothing in the cache except a logbook. That's a different sport called letterboxing.

Finally, I agree with you regarding being new at this. As I have pointed out before this game is only 100 weeks old. We're all newbies.

I don't know where you're located, but if you ever get out to Massachusetts, give me holler and we'll check out some caches.

geospotter

March 16, 2002

I think that cache degeneration happens whether you want it to or not and that's where maintenance comes in. If it's important to you to have a wider selection of things then by all means, stock it up and keep an eye on the contents!

I can say, on our very first geocache hunt, that we were fortunate to find a cache that had a wide array of items. We were impressed with the thought put into the theme of the cache and we didn't know at that time that there are some people who will leave nothing but garbage behind. We learned that one the hard way with our first hidden cache----retrieved it for some mainentance and repair and found bottle caps inside.

6.4k · March 16, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by ApK:

Then why leave containers of keychains and chachkies in the woods? Just cache a log book and pen, and, unless someone steals the pen, it can't be degraded! Or forbid any cache contents other then then, say, calling cards or other trivial-value signature items for souveniers.

I don't think that would be as much fun, though.

Just my 2 cents here:

Going down my list of 10 most memorable caches, the top ones were all pretty much logbook only caches.(one didn't even have a pen)

A good portion of the rest of the list I either traded nothing, or just swapped wheresgeorge dollars. So I guess, if the reason your caching is for the hunt, the fresh air, the exercise, the time alone or the time spent with family, then trinket-less caches are still loads of fun. If I JUST wanted the trinkets, I'd buy extras for myself while shopping for cache goodies at Dollar Tree.

Illegitimus non carborundum!

March 16, 2002

If your tired of setting up chachkie caches why not consider doing the old Letterbox type cash.

You leave a log book, a unique stamp for your cache, a pen and maybe an ink pad.

The finder stamps thier logbook with the caches stamp and leaves a log entry with thier stamp in the caches log book.

This way you go away with some mark that you were at the site and you leave your mark there as well.

ANother route would be using QSL cards. This goes further back in the letterboxing history than stamping.

Bacicaly the cache maintainer prints up a slew of specialized cards ( post card style, biz style or waht have you) and leaves them in the cache with the log book,

The finder takes one of the caches cards, leaves one of thier perosnalized cards and marks the log book. They can then make a collection of cool cards from each site.

This sort of thing has been going on in the shortwave radio world for decades.

There is no reason why the sport cant mutate some-

Just some thoughts.

-tom

----------------------------

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

March 16, 2002