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What would you do? Questionable Cache


Guest RealDcoy
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Guest jeremy

Good call. Please remove it and let me know when it has been moved so I can archive it from the web site. Thanks for observing all the issues with this one. Once you remove it you can log the cache page and let the owner know they can retrieve it from you which would be a nice gesture.

 

Thanks again!

 

Jeremy

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Guest RealDcoy

I hope I can get there in the next few days. Its about 20 miles or so. Maybe I can get an email to the person who commented about the other one being removed, and see if they are near it.

 

I kind of wished I had removed it while we were there, but only being there for 2 days, I thought possibly that some of the other people around might also have been geocachers.

 

So the verdict is to remove it? I guess Jeremy, you would be the correct person to make that call. Thanks for the QUICK response.

 

I have two caches put together to place this week. I am waiting on a response on permission to place a cache on a couple different privately owned parcels that are open to public traffic. I didn't place them due to concern with local fauna just like this dune one. I have a feeling that if a couple event develop in this area from problematic placement, there will be bad press.

 

People LOVE to get the press involved up here!

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Guest russianbear

It was certainly NOT our intention to be unlawful or give geocachers a bad name. I apologize for wanting to be involved. We only did this out of a sense of wanting to get involved with something fun and cool. We had no bad intentions.

 

I DO admit that it was poorly planned and poorly executed. It was done on a whim and I had no idea about the downloadable Word document about geocaching. I did give contact info in the logbook, however.

 

After a long day hiking the trails in the Pierce Stocking Scenic Drive, hiking miles of trails, doing the dune climb, etc. we were sun-beat and tired. On the trail in, I honestly do not recall seeing any signs saying "Stay off this particular heap of sand!". There were people all over the dunes and I sort of assumed that perhaps this was a recreational area. . I do admit that I was ignorant of the laws, and I apologize.

 

If someone wants to rescue the cache and relocate it, I'd be happy. Please do not just remove it and pilfer the contents for your own cache (I'm not accussing anyone of anything, just making sure...).

 

I do appreciate everyone helping me become aware of the issues, and I certainly will think more carefully about where I place future caches. I do plan on placing caches in the Ann Arbor area.

 

After reading some of the other posts in these boards, I am almost thinking that I am going to stay away from reading them. It seems like too many up-tight people always have to get their undies all in a bunch and ruin other peoples' fun (again- not accussing anyone of anything specific, but I did read this self-righteous nonsense about not calling other people names, blah, blah, blah.)...

 

Anyway, again- I apologize for creating a problem for anyone. It was not my intention and I would like to continue with this new-found hobby.

 

------------------

Keep on cachin' in the

free world!

 

Scott

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Guest arffer

RussianBear,

 

No harm done, and you learned a couple of things in the process. Good luck in your Ann Arbor caches, if I get up that way I'll be sure to try and hunt them!

 

RealDcoy,

Thanks for being alert to a possible problem, and for caring for it. I hope you can help get it relocated or help russianbear recover it.

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 14 August 2001).]

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Also being a Michigan cacher and placer, I think I will toss out my opinion on this one. I would not purposely place a cache in an environmentally sensitive area but it is entirely possible to do so unknowingly, many of the dune areas are not clearly marked from all approaches. Some of them are totally off limits while others are open to all types of ORVs so their is not a hard rule in every area. I think the responsible thing to do is notify the cache owner immediately. In a case like this where you know they don't live nearby it wouldn't be rude to simply remove the cache and contact them and offer to move it to a nearby less fragile area or hold it for them. The searcher has to share in the responsibility for caching. It appears in this instance that all parties are aware of the situation and it should have a happy ending for all.

 

I do agree with Russianbear that a lot of folks on here are wearing their shorts a bit too tight but when placing caches it is best to error on the side of caution in an environmental and also a politically correct sense. It will ruffle fewer feathers and is really the right thing to do. Don't stop placing or participating just live and learn.

 

Rusty...

 

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Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page

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Guest RealDcoy

Russianbear and I already emailed back and forth. I said that text doesn't always convey ideas the same way spoken word does. By trying to be as "generic" about the cache as possible, I made it look worse than it was.

 

There were people walking the dune while I was there too. Like I said, I only noticed the signs on the way out.

 

I agree on the overly uptight stuff too. We have MANY people that way up here too. Thats why I mentioned the media stuff. (Read the Record-Eagle letters to the editor for a few days.)

 

Anyway Russianbear and I will figure out where it should go somehow. I can tell you it made me research 2 of my planned spots a little better!

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Guest Pat in Louisiana

Michigan? dunes? I guess being from the gulf coast I think of dunes as being along either the gulf or the Atlantic. Kind of threw me there. We have "Protected Wet Lands" and similar to your dunes they are not very well marked. I could see how a cache could easily be placed in one of these areas unintentionally. Jeremy is it your intention that the cache be removed and inactive or just relocated?

 

------------------

Pat in Louisiana

30:27:13.392N

91:02:55.054W

 

"I just want to live happily ever after every now and then"

Jimmy Buffet

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Guest makaio

"There are warning signs about the fragile dune grasses, and requests to stay on the obvious path."

 

Here in Oregon, they brought in non-native grasses many years ago to plant along the shifting dunes to try and battle erosion. It worked...too well. Now, the grasses have taken over and have choked out and overgrown native fauna. There are currently efforts to try and stop the growth, so it sounds a bit funny to hear "fragile grasses".

 

I'm sure these grasses in yuor area are deemed fragile for a reason and the cache shouldn't have been placed where seekers could trod on them. Hopefully, they are native grasses and not introduced as were ours, otherwise a few years from now they will be so well implanted that the dunes will begin evolving into solid ground.

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Guest jeremy

NPS lands are off limits to geocaching. At least for now. It has been my unwritten rule to notify geocachers that their cache is being placed on NPS lands and their position on geocaching. It's up to the geocacher to decide whether to obey by those rules.

 

Usually if it is questionable *and* on NPS lands, to me it's a double whammy. So I would suggest that it be removed and relocated outside of NPS lands altogether.

 

Jeremy

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quote:
Originally posted by jeremy:

NPS lands are off limits to geocaching. At least for now. It has been my unwritten rule to notify geocachers that their cache is being placed on NPS lands and their position on geocaching. It's up to the geocacher to decide whether to obey by those rules.

 

Usually if it is questionable *and* on NPS lands, to me it's a double whammy. So I would suggest that it be removed and relocated outside of NPS lands altogether.

 

Jeremy


 

I didn't notice when I first read the thread that it was an NPS area, I was thinking it was a state park. NPS is definitely off limits. Since those are the one clear no-no perhaps they should be mentioned in the FAQ for placing a cache. A lot of newbies may not read all the forums before they start participating. I don't think it is possible to list every area you can or can't place a cache but areas controlled by the Nat'l Park Service are a biggie.

 

Rusty...

 

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Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page

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Guest jeremy

Guide to hiding a cache (from the FAQ)-

 

"You may be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks. "

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Guest russianbear

Didn't mean to cause such an uproar. Now we know... As I said, sorry to cause any trouble, was not our intention, etc.

 

I still think one pile of sand looks just like any other and I didn't see any dune grass on this particular pile of sand. RealDecoy and I will work something out., and I appreciate his efforts to help educate me of the things that all newbies should be aware of.

 

Otherwise, seems like some people need to lighten up... Besides, being a tax payer, don't I have any say in how I use the lands MY tax money is helping to pay for? At the time, it certainly did not seem questionable- just trying to be a part of this neat hobby. Now that I know NPS lands are off-limits, fine with me.

 

------------------

Keep on cachin' in the

free world!

 

Scott

 

[This message has been edited by russianbear (edited 15 August 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by russianbear (edited 15 August 2001).]

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Guest prv8eye

quote:
Originally posted by Pat in Louisiana:

Michigan? dunes? I guess being from the gulf coast I think of dunes as being along either the gulf or the Atlantic. Kind of threw me there


 

The fact that the five Great Lakes are called "lakes" throws a LOT of people who haven't visited or sailed on them.

The "lakes" are, more accurately, inland seas with sandy beaches.

Michigan, almost surrounded by four of the five Great Lakes, has 3,288 miles of shorline, a thousand more than Florida's 2,276 statute miles s of shoreline.

(I know some won't believe me-look it up! )

Of course the waves don't often compare, except during storms, but there are thousands of miles of beautiful beaches on the Great Lakes and NO sharks!

 

Gus Morrow

Oceanside, CA

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Guest RealDcoy

Well, we are off topic, but its funny to hear facts about MI lakes from someone in CA. I have a brother South of LA a ways. Everytime I go there and talk about being on the great lakes, invariably someone says," What's so 'great' about them?".

 

It seems strange to me that people look at a map of the US and don't see that each of the great lakes are bigger than many states!

 

Heck, CA's biggest lake is the Salton Sea at 350,000 acres, next is Eagle Lake at 22,000 acres.

 

We have three lakes contained on the interior between 17,000-20,000 acres, but Lake Michigan is 14,270,000 acres! Huron is 14,720,000, and last but not least Erie at 20,290,000 acres!

 

Not lakes that you normally take the ol' family boat out on to take a trip across, huh?

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Guest PharoaH

quote:
Originally posted by RealDcoy:

Well, we are off topic and last but not least Erie at 20,290,000 acres!

 

Not lakes that you normally take the ol' family boat out on to take a trip across, huh?


 

I remember a few walleye and perch charters out of Port Clinton when storms blew up. A lake that large can sure put up some waves. I wouldn't be caught dead in a little boat on those lakes (or more correctly, I would be caught; DEAD).

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Guest jjderoy1

WAY WAY WAY OFF SUBJECT

 

i have paid my taxes since forever..i now want my ride in a tank .. a fighter jet .. a submarine .. and a helicopter .. i figure i have at least paid for that much gas :-)

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Guest jbwcpa

quote:
Originally posted by russianbear:

...Otherwise, seems like some people need to lighten up... Besides, being a tax payer, don't I have any say in how I use the lands MY tax money is helping to pay for? At the time, it certainly did not seem questionable- just trying to be a part of this neat hobby. Now that I know NPS lands are off-limits, fine with me.

 


 

I know, you know, Jeremy and most of the people in this forum know we aren't hurting anything. The point is, not everybody outside of Geocaching knows that. I think its best not to give land managers and government officials any fodder in believing we're just trashing up the parks and forests and dunes while disregarding their point of view and responsibility. Who knows, they may come around.

 

How about a sticker with the "Cache In/Trash Out" logo to put on the outside of cache containers? Just an idea.

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Guest SecretSpy

RussianBear please don't leave geocaching because of this. Soon all these guys will go get their panties in a knot over something else and you can join in. tongue.gif

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Guest RealDcoy

Jeremy or Mike-

 

Please lock this thread.

 

The discussion is over, the cache placer and I have had contact a couple times directly, the issue will be resolved.

 

Nothing was meant to scold or the placer, I just wanted some background since I am a new cacher myself. I made no judgement torwards russianbear, and certainly don't think I have any better knowledge of Geocaching than he!

 

I would think that an opinion from Jeremy or Mike Teague would be good enough for all, as without them nobody would be enjoying this activity.

 

Now there is a post from someone else that isn't any more experienced (considering aug 2001 registration) than me talking about "panties in a bunch"?

 

No wonder there is a thread about being frustrated by the boards!

 

Thanks for the help

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