Uh, really?

8.9k · January 8, 2003

I was browsing the cache pictures, and came across this log for this locationless cache.

According to the Placement Requirements...

quote:
Locationless caches must be semi-permanent to permanent. For example, nothing that is mobile can be a locationless cache. Examples (nonexclusive) are cars, buses, helicopters, boats, etc. A local carnival cache is another example of a cache that would not be approved. If I mark coordinates at a location it should be there tomorrow.

How did this cache get approved?

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

January 8, 2003

while appears to be against the rules you have posted, i think it is an interesting idea and maybe the approvers used their discretion? if this catches on and photos of policing organizations from 156 countries make this site i think that would be quite an accomplishment.

1.5k · January 8, 2003

Its been archived now. I guess not all of the approvers are on the same page when it comes to locationless criteria.

January 8, 2003

It's been archived now.

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

9.1k · January 8, 2003

Wow, archived less than a half hour after attention was drawn to it in the forums! My last "conversation" with an officer of the law while geocaching lasted about the same amount of time. Fortunately, he did not archive me.

Don't get me wrong, I sometimes like to log unusual locationless caches (about 10 total), but this one clearly didn't meet the published requirements and I can't understand how it got approved.

If there were a separate scavenger hunt type of section to the website (like benchmarks), where finds did not affect my cache totals, I'd have logged this one because it'd be cool. But it's not a geocache.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return?

January 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Leprechauns:
Wow, archived less than a half hour after attention was drawn to it in the forums!

Ok. we all (well most of us) know what Markwelling is.

So now we have WellMark'ed caches. That's caches that slip under the radar and get approved, and then archived after someone Well,marks them here in the forums.

There have been 1 or 2 others of late, I am just being to lazy to Markwell them.

Hey, Its the day after my birthday, I can invent a new word if I want to...

1.6k · January 8, 2003

Hey! I didn't get to get a cheap find before it was archived. Bummer.

CR

5.2k · January 8, 2003

So why is that one archived while Yellow Jeep Fever lives on?

Personally I don't see a problem with either of them.

Lil Devil

9.1k · January 8, 2003

Yellow Jeep fever is grandfathered, it pre-dated the current rules. Too bad, this one is more interesting. But, see my post above.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return?

2.6k · January 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
Hey! I didn't get to get a cheap find before it was archived. Bummer.

CR

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/72057_2000.gif

You can log an archived cache. Nothing in the system stops you from logging it. Only the cache owner can stop you.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

3k · January 9, 2003

and it's no longer archived.

January 9, 2003

I proposed a locationless cache where you find and photo those "decoy" cars where they have a police car with a dummy (the non-living kind!) sitting in the front seat. My local PD uses one and has it in a different location every day sometimes. Kinda funny.

This was before the "must be stationary" rule, but it still wasn't approved. In retrospect, perhaps it was a bad idea anyway.

I don't hide or find locationless caches anymore. I've seen The Light .

January 9, 2003

Several small communities around here pooled their resources and built one central maintenance garage for their city vehicles. On any given day, you can usually see police cars from 5 or 6 cities. Cheap find and an easy way to pad your numbers if you're interested but it's not for me.

I still believe LC's should have their own count independent of other caches that actually require you to go somewhere.

Now where did I park my car???????

January 9, 2003

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the cache. It’s not like you were to look for a particular car or just one item that moves around. You’re to look for any police car. I would have asked for two pictures for each log, one with the GPSr and seal. The other with just the seal, the whole seal and nothing but the seal. The cache owner could them make a web page with all the seals for our viewing.

1.2k · January 9, 2003

Once again, I think folks take this stuff too seriously... it isn't like it's some kind of Olympic event with judges and such... but maybe that's just me.

From my perspective it's just a neat family activity, not the end all and be all of our lives. I have many much more serious matters to be worried about in my life... don't I???

Besides, I'm kinda partial to this locationless, since I drive one of the vehicles you could take a picture of....hehehehe.

I say bravo for allowing it, for using some discretion in what is approved and not approved, rather than everything being so black and white. I'm all for having some basic rules, but the problem with rules is they seem to reproduce and grow at an alarming rate unless we cut them back every once in a while. So rules are fine if they are reasonable rules and don't become oppresive due to a small group of very vocal individuals wanting to "run" things. My idea of an ideal cache could be very different from yours but it neither makes your or mine ideal for all, and vice versa.

All in all, it's just my humble opinion.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

8.9k · January 9, 2003

...I just wanted to say that I'm not going to be losing any sleep over the allowing or disallowing of this cache. I just ignore the locationless ones any way (the couple that I have logged, I've done with a note).

I just wanted to be sure that the approvers knew that this is against their established rules of locationless caches (which it is). The rule about the permanent nature should be uniformly applied. I see no difference between this locationless and the yellow jeep locationless, which is the one that they looked at when deciding on the permanent stipulation.

For example: I submitted an idea for a locationless cache in which you could log a find for finding any one of the "Parade of Animals" that are in cities all over the US. Unique and stationary. The reason it was disallowed was that the objects were not considered permanent enough, as they would be gone in a matter of months.

The police cars being logged would be gone tomorrow.

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

January 9, 2003

Cool! So this means I can do a Firetruck cache & a Yamaha Motorcycle cache & an ambulance cache & a black camaro whose owners wear absball caps cache & a person broken down on the side of the road cache............ & since I collect Camaro models/paraphenalia, how about a Camaro Police car cache (actually, that's not a bad idea.... hmmmmm....)

Wherever you go, there you are!

6.4k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Crusso:
Cool! So this means I can do a Firetruck cache & a Yamaha Motorcycle cache & an ambulance cache & a black camaro whose owners wear absball caps cache & a person broken down on the side of the road cache............ & since I collect Camaro models/paraphenalia, how about a Camaro Police car cache (actually, that's not a bad idea.... hmmmmm....)

Wherever you go, there you are!

Well, if you get the camaro cache, then can I get a few MoPar ones? Hmmm.. how bout a Dodge Charger cache? Or a Viper cache? Or I'll make it easier, how about a car cruise cache? At least they are usually in the same spot, week after week. Or a Harley cache to offset that Yamaha one (whats more patriotic and american then Harley Davidson?)? Hey, alot of harleys are used for police work, you can get a 2 for 1 deal! Oh wait, I do own a Yamaha Personal Watercraft, but thats not a bike, so could I please have a "post a pic of a waverunner/jetski/seadoo" cache?

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

January 9, 2003

Hows about a locationless cache of finding other cachers at a cache when you arrive there?

or would that be a vertual? Since it has a location, just not the same one... Or a MULTI, since you could follow them around to other caches, or a....

I'll just shut up now.

6.4k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Centaur:
Hows about a locationless cache of finding other cachers at a cache when you arrive there?

or would that be a vertual? Since it has a location, just not the same one... Or a MULTI, since you could follow them around to other caches, or a....

I'll just shut up now.

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/66427_2800.gif

I think your on to something! Every geocacher can be his own locationless cache! Think how many finds you could log at an event cache? Why limit yourself to just one free find a month for showing up at a meeting at Dennys, when you can get 20?

The point I'm TRYING to make is all these are fun things to do with a GPS, but they really aren't geocaching. At its most basic level, a geocache is where you use a GPS to find something by its longitude an latitude. Sure some do it with out a GPS, using maps and compasses, but they still go out an find the location. Caches like the one we are talking about here, can not be found with a GPS. Even if I want to, I cant use my gps to find a police car. (sure, I can search the POI for a Dunkin Donuts, but....). I can't even go back and use my GPS to find the ones others posted, most of them are not there today.

Lots of these scavenger hunt things look like fun, and I've done a bunch. I logged one in the beginning, but after that, its just been notes, or nothing at all, just for my own satisfaction. If they were counted diferently from my cache finds, I would probably log lots of them.

As for the note someone posted to that cache "Perhaps the Americans with Disability Act (ADA) police need to hear about this possible discrimination."

Thats nuts. lets ban all caches over 1/1 then. Lets force baseball teams to allow blind people. Every football team must now have one wheelchair-bound quarterback. What comes next? When was the last time you saw a parapalegic fireman save someone from a burning building? Or a cop on crutches chasing after a mugger? Better call the ADA police on them too! I'm afraid of heights, so could we please ban all those caches that might bother me? Geocaching already has tons of handicap accessable caches, (i have one speciically designed to be handi-acessable) so where's the discrimination? I don't see people in wheelchairs here complaining that this cache was archived, the people that seemed to whine the most are the ones that 75% of their so-called cache finds were found on Google.com.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

24.7k · January 9, 2003

If I wanted more of a challenge I could get pulled over by one and do it that way.

Or I suppose I could walk next door to the stationary state trooper building where they park the cars all the time and photograph one that way.

But really, I don't give a rats as how or why they got it approved, nor do I care that it does or doesn't seem to fit a specific intrepretation of the rules. However now that I know they exist and since I happen to have the state troopers next door to my work, I think I'll do the cache. Lighten up already.

Wherever you go there you are.

3k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:
... I don't see people in wheelchairs here complaining that this cache was archived, the people that seemed to whine the most are the ones that 75% of their so-called cache finds were found on Google.com.

HA!! Mopar, you could not have hit that nail on the head any squarer!

The second funniest thing I read about Locationless Caches is that "the reason they exist is to provide something for people in cache-poor areas to do." Uh-huh. (snort-snort-guffaw) Then how come practically everyone with 100 or more Locationless finds comes from cache-rich areas?

6.4k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
If I wanted more of a challenge I could get pulled over by one and do it that way.

Well, there ya go, do that and you get a 2 for 1 special, cause then you can log this lame cache at the same time. And, if you happen to get a ticket for speeding in a marked police car anywhere at all along Route 66, you get yet a 3rd lame find. Do i really deserve to add 3 finds to my count for speeding on a highway?

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

[This message was edited by Mopar on January 09, 2003 at 09:55 AM.]

January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Crusso:
Cool! So this means I can do a Firetruck cache & a Yamaha Motorcycle cache & an ambulance cache & a black camaro whose owners wear absball caps cache & a person broken down on the side of the road cache............ & since I collect Camaro models/paraphenalia, how about a Camaro Police car cache (actually, that's not a bad idea.... hmmmmm....)

We actually have a Camaro police car here in San Jose, CA. Also, a Corvette one.

-------------------------------------

Becky Davis

San Jose, CA

How many geocachers can you fit into an ammo box?

January 9, 2003

There it goes again! This is kind of like watching my 3 year old playing with a light switch.

I still think it was the most interesting location less caches I’ve seen. I like it, not that I would ever log it, don’t like locationless caches, or should we call them ‘armchair caches’. I’ve never logged one and think they should be a game all of their own. After all look at the name of our hobby, GEO – worldly CACHE -something hidden. Just what is hidden in a locationless or for that mater a virtual, where does one draw the line, and I’m glad I’m not the one drawing the line.

6.4k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Rusty O Junk:
There it goes again! This is kind of like watching my 3 year old playing with a light switch.

I still think it was the most interesting location less caches I’ve seen. I like it, not that I would ever log it, don’t like locationless caches, or should we call them ‘armchair caches’. I’ve never logged one and think they should be a game all of their own. After all look at the name of our hobby, GEO – worldly CACHE -something hidden. Just what is hidden in a locationless or for that mater a virtual, where does one draw the line, and I’m glad I’m not the one drawing the line.

Ditto Rusty. I'm not saying alot of them arent fun and interesting, I just dont want to log them because they really dont seem to be geocaches, even in the loosest interpretation of the word. Give them a seperate home, like benchmarks, and I'll log 100 of them.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

24.7k · January 9, 2003

They are a game of their own. It's called locationless caches. They are called that because they are different from Traditional caches etc. etc. etc. ad nausium.

Mopar...3 for one. You gotta admit that unless you lived on Route 66 you would have to work pretty hard to make sure you got to Route 66, got pulled over by a cop who hadn't already had his door ID used in the cache. Besides which my natural good looks and charm make it dadgum hard to get a ticket so that is also a lot of work.

Wherever you go there you are.

January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
They are a game of their own. It's called locationless caches. They are called that because they are different from Traditional caches etc. etc. etc. ad nausium.

The point is that they are different, but they are not counted differently. If they were counted differently, 99% of the opposition to them would disappear immediately.

rdw

9.4k · January 9, 2003

This cache does not meet the guidelines. The cache has been unapproved and all logs removed.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

January 9, 2003

Yup. Wellmarked....

And so it goes....

[This message was edited by Centaur on January 09, 2003 at 05:32 PM.]

January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:
This cache does not meet the guidelines. The cache has been unapproved and all logs removed.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

thats a dadgum shame.

SR and dboggny.

2.6k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:

I just wanted to be sure that the approvers knew that this is against their established rules of locationless caches (which it is). The rule about the permanent nature should be uniformly applied. I see no difference between this locationless and the yellow jeep locationless, which is the one that they looked at when deciding on the permanent stipulation.

I know the point is moot, but I think this cache could be considered withing the guidlines if you consider that the cars may not be permenant, but the seals are. If you go back there years from now, the exact car you took a picture of might be gone, but there should be that seal on another car. The subject of the cache is the seal it just happened to be found on the car.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

January 9, 2003

Myth: Locationless caches are unpopular.

Fact: Locationless caches are very popular. A handful of very active posters repeatedly criticize these caches, although they profess no interest in them. This turns every thread about locationless caches into a debate about their existence within a few posts.

Myth: Finding fault with a cache that you have no intention of finding is acceptable. Criticizing caches by name in the forums should be done because above all, geocaching is a competition. It's all about the number of finds!

Fact: Some people may actually find having their cache trashed in the forums to be a tad less than kind. Of course, these are probably the same folks that are less likely to post on the boards for fear that a similar topic was discussed a year ago. Unless I am mistaken, there is no million dollar prize for the most finds. Let it go!

Something to consider: If starting a thread about a previously discussed topic is such a crime, what about posting the same tired rant in every thread even remotely related to locationless caches? Then again, maybe there's a million dollars for the cacher with the most posts, too.

1.5k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by gobucks:
Something to consider: If starting a thread about a previously discussed topic is such a crime, what about posting the same tired rant in every thread even remotely related to locationless caches? Then again, maybe there's a million dollars for the cacher with the most posts, too.

There was. umc already won it though.

7.2k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by gobucks:
_Myth:_ Locationless caches are unpopular.

_Fact:_ Locationless caches are very popular.

Fact! There are over 40,000 or 50,000 Geocachers (frankly more than that, but lets use that number for this exercise). The highest logged locationless cache only has around 450 logs. If a rate of 0.01 percent is popular by your definition, then I think you may need a new dictionary.

6.4k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by gobucks:
_Myth:_ Locationless caches are unpopular.

_Fact:_ Locationless caches are very popular. A handful of very active posters repeatedly criticize these caches, although they profess no interest in them. This turns every thread about locationless caches into a debate about their existence within a few posts.

Myth Locationless scavenger hunts are geocaches

Fact The only people who think so are ones with 300 "finds" but only 100 or so are physical caches.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

January 10, 2003

Thanks for proving my point, Mopar.

8.9k · January 10, 2003

Wow. I'm a whiner. OK, I'll take on that title.

I whined about a cache that should not have been approved given the guidelines we are all supposed to be working in. It was a cache I never intended on finding.

It had nothing to do with the numbers for me. I didn't point out the names of any cachers who logged it as cheating. I could not care less what people do with their find count (as long as they don't use my caches). If someone wants to log all of the caches sitting at 0°/0° - they can have at it.

The reason I brought up the topic is that somehow this cache slipped through the approval process. TPTB ("the powers that be") have set up guidelines and denied many people locationless caches that have not met the requirements, including myself. Would it be fair to allow a cache that is not permanent in nature when so many others have been denied caches much more permanent than a police car?

I brought it up in the forums for public comment. That was probably a mistake. Next time, I'll just e-mail TPTB directly.

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

1.2k · January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SR & dboggny:

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:
This cache does not meet the guidelines. The cache has been unapproved and all logs removed.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

thats a dadgum shame.

SR and dboggny.

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/9372_2600.jpg

There ya go, now you have what you wanted. And I agree with SR and dboggny.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

9.4k · January 10, 2003

There may be a huge demand out there waiting for someone who creates a "Scavenger hunt" game on the 'net. Think about it! You could have people post objects they want others to find, and the other people could take pictures of them. Anyone with a digital camera could play. GPS units optional. That means a huge opportunity for you!

There's money to be had by whoever takes up the gauntlet in this quest for greatness. Seriously! I'm not making this up!

You too can have the task of running a quickly growing and popular site. Think of the fame! Think of the glory! There's opportunity here and you have the power to make it happen.

Good luck!

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

5.7k · January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:

quote:
Originally posted by gobucks:
_Myth:_ Locationless caches are unpopular.

_Fact:_ Locationless caches are very popular.

_Fact!_ There are over 40,000 or 50,000 Geocachers (frankly more than that, but lets use that number for this exercise). The highest logged locationless cache only has around 450 logs. If a rate of 0.01 percent is popular by your definition, then I think you may need a new dictionary.

That's an interesting statistic. What is the highest logged physical cache?

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

January 10, 2003

quote:
I could not care less what people do with their find count
http://www.markwell.us

http://www.chicagogeocaching.com

cough cough. How come you super geocachers dont complain about lame 1/1 caches and how those cheapen your find count!

its sad to see adults complain like this. its a really just sad.

SR and dboggny.

9.4k · January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
Mopar...3 for one. You gotta admit that unless you lived on Route 66 you would have to work pretty hard to make sure you got to Route 66, got pulled over by a cop who hadn't already had his door ID used in the cache. Besides which my natural good looks and charm make it dadgum hard to get a ticket so that is also a lot of work.

Hmmm...I'll just drive down to the donut shop on Central Ave (Rt66) and take some pictures. No speeding ticket required.

January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

Hmmm...I'll just drive down to the donut shop on Central Ave (Rt66) and take some pictures. No speeding ticket required.

you think your a funny guy ha. your a waste

SR and dboggny.

January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

You too can have the task of running a quickly growing and popular site. Think of the fame! Think of the glory!

Think of the lack of sleep. Think of the Ulsors! Think of the BBS there....

January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:
I brought it up in the forums for public comment. That was probably a mistake. Next time, I'll just e-mail TPTB directly.

Markwell please just keep doing what you do best and that's helping make this game and this forum fun, interesting and fair. You did the right thing by bringing this to our attention. I don't know why people get their shorts in a wad just because they don't agree with someone else. I don't always agree with my wife but I respect her opinions and dang sure would not trash her like others have done here to people. You simple made a true statement. How can someone argue with that? Keep on keeping on my friend.

________________________________________________________________________

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes.

6.4k · January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Marky:

That's an interesting statistic. What is the highest logged physical cache?

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

But the difference, a physical cache For the most part will only be found by people who live locally to it; most locationless "caches" should in the theory be able to be found by almost every cacher in the world. I might be not able easily find your cool breeder cache living on the east coast, but I bet I can find a yellow jeep parked in front of a american flag on the bluestar highway (cool, another 3 for 1!)within 3 miles of my house.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

9.4k · January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SR & dboggny:

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:
Hmmm...I'll just drive down to the donut shop on Central Ave (Rt66) and take some pictures. No speeding ticket required.

you think your a funny guy ha. your a waste

You're just jealous you don't live within 10 miles of Route 66. My wife lived within a mile of it (in California) until we got married.

January 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:
You're just jealous you don't live within 10 miles of Route 66. My wife lived within a mile of it (in California) until we got married.

I live within 10 miles of the START of Route 66. Someday I want to drive it (whats left of it) from our home here in Chicago all the way to California...

And to BrownMule: RE: your comments about Markwell - WELL SAID!

Makrwell - Keep on being you. At least until you get up here above 42 and come caching with us northsiders.

January 10, 2003

As a rule, the only reason I do a virtual is to get it off the top of the pages in my near home view of the caching world. I'm not a fan of virtuals. Then again, I went to a virtual cache (one of those historical markers) that made me laugh out loud at an interesting piece of history.

But, I don't like virtuals....

But to have the opportunity to have policemen all over the US and World get acquainted with the fine folks that follow our obession would be a 'good thing'.

But, I don't like virtuals...

Uh, really?

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