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Arkansas State Parks


solohiker
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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

What kind of safety does a clear container add?


 

A clear container adds considerable safety if there is a threatening device in the cache. The fact that the risk of threatening devices is statistically very low does not mitigate the advantage of the visual awareness of danger.

 

Who am I kidding? I think it is a whimpy rule too!

 

However, a part of me enjoys the challenge of finding the perfect, clear, latchable, inexpensive, water tight container. icon_confused.gif

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No, I see where they are coming from on that. At least three of the state parks are in college towns, and they've had problems with juvenile pranks in those parks and others in urban areas as well. I’m sure they are just worried someone will sweep a rattlesnake into a container and lock it up just for a laugh, or something like that. They aren’t worried about terrorist type bombs, or carefully thought out adult booby traps, but just teen and preteen pranks that can go bad. It was a big thing a few years back to (believe it or not) catch snakes or animals, or wasp nests, and put them in the trash bins and recycle bins, where they would jump out at the park people who came to empty them, or the park visitor who opened it next. Ditto for those unattended registration boxes.

 

I realize this is pretty unlikely as long as the cache is hidden well enough that a drunk teen wouldn't stumble upon it, but the parks service doesn't understand that yet. To them it is the same thing.

 

I too agree that an ammo box painted orange would be a far better choice, but I’d be willing to concede on the container issue if they’d drop the 4-month limit.

 

[This message was edited by LongDogs on January 10, 2003 at 11:28 AM.]

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I commented about pranks, but I also remember an incident where wasps (or was it hornets or yellow jackets?) built a nest in a park map-guide box, (you know, the little metal boxes attached to kiosks that hold the trail guide pamplets) and a little girl opened it to get a map and got swarmed and stung all over the face and body. It was pretty serious.

 

They could be thinking about that too, not realizing our containers would be quite bug-proof.

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quote:
Originally posted by solohiker:

A clear container adds considerable safety if there is a threatening device in the cache. The fact that the risk of threatening devices is statistically very low does not mitigate the advantage of the visual awareness of danger.


I understand the reasoning behind the idea(clear = safe), but it seems flawed because how can you identify all the objects in a cache. Even if I can see whats in a cache, How do I know what i'm seeing is? Which leads back to the, is it safe to touch question.

That and the "clear" containers I'm thinking of, are not all that clear. The only one I can think of that thats "clear" enough to get a positive ID on any given object, is a glass jar. Which would violate the must-be-unbreakabe rule icon_mad.gif

 

quote:
However, a part of me enjoys the challenge of finding the perfect, clear, latchable, inexpensive, water tight container. icon_confused.gif

Maybe one of those 'clear' plastic jugs at one of the dollar store? icon_rolleyes.gif

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by LongDogs:

I commented about pranks, but I also remember an incident where wasps (or was it hornets or yellow jackets?) built a nest in a park map-guide box, (you know, the little metal boxes attached to kiosks that hold the trail guide pamplets) and a little girl opened it to get a map and got swarmed and stung all over the face and body. It was pretty serious.

 

They could be thinking about that too, not realizing our containers would be quite bug-proof.


 

Hiking shelter logbooks are the worst. I open them with a stick and run!!

 

I love nature.

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quote:
Originally posted by solohiker:

quote:
Originally posted by welch:

 

Maybe one of those 'clear' plastic jugs at one of the dollar store? icon_rolleyes.gif

 


 

Another good suggestion.

 

Unless you have an obsession with Ammo Cans this rule is not an obstacle either.


Oh, I have an obession alright, but I'm on the step down program. Getting ready to go from 30cal to d-con icon_biggrin.gif

 

quote:
Don't you check your caches three times a year anyway?

To me, the issue is that I would have to go and fill out more paperwork, get another permit, take more coords, etc. EVERY FOUR MONTHS icon_frown.gif

btw- can one re-file on the same spot?? icon_confused.gif

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by welch:

 

btw- can one re-file on the same spot?? icon_confused.gif

 


 

The approval of caches is given to local park rangers. I predict there will be park rangers who refuse every cache location. Other rangers will help you set up your cache. It is a people thing.

 

I like local control, because I can stand face to face with a person and have a discussion. May the best personality win. icon_biggrin.gif

 

If you run into a real prick you can complain about him in the forums. It is a win win situation. icon_smile.gif

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quote:
No, I see where they are coming from on that. At least three of the state parks are in college towns, and they've had problems with juvenile pranks in those parks and others in urban areas as well. I’m sure they are just worried someone will sweep a rattlesnake into a container and lock it up just for a laugh, or something like that.

 

Haaa haa, that would be pretty funny, but lock a rattlesnake in an airtight container for a day or so and I don't see a problem. I think they need something called oxygen...unless my HS biology teacher was wrong.

 

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

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Solohiker,

Why don't you bring a .30 cal ammo box with you. Make sure it's clearly stenciled with the website address and owner's address, and maybe phone number (as most are) or use the stickers that are sold on this webiste.

 

Stress the idea that they are one of the few animal proof containers out there. Tell them stories about the plastic caches that you've found chewn through, or scattered about by animals (as many of us have encountered).

 

Finally, scan the wire services, newspapers, Google, Nexus/Lexus, etc... and bring them every news story you can find about incidents of booby trapped geocaches.

 

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

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quote:

 

Haaa haa, that would be pretty funny, but lock a rattlesnake in an airtight container for a day or so and I don't see a problem. I think they need something called oxygen...unless my HS biology teacher was wrong.


 

Your skepticism betrays your lack of imagination.

 

My fear of retribution has tempered mine.

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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

Solohiker,

Why don't you bring a .30 cal ammo box with you. Make sure it's clearly stenciled with the website address and owner's address, and maybe phone number (as most are) or use the stickers that are sold on this webiste.


 

I intend to present a collection of containers.

 

I doubt the forum will respond to a Ziplock baggie, but I will have one to make a point.

 

I will test the wind before I fart.

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Don't misunderstand my earlier comments about critters, etc. in caches. I was simply trying to explain where they are coming from.

 

The point I'd like to make to them, is that a cache is nothing like a registration box or a trash can. You don't put something in a cache and then hide to watch the next patron open it.

 

Nor do I think an ammo box would be subject to wasp infestation. They don't understand we use sealed containers, and they don't understand the "infrequent visit" nature of geocaching.

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Perhaps the clear container requirement is more of a convenience issue than a safety issue. They just don't want to have to open it to see what's inside. They can nudge it with their foot, take a look and move along.

BTW, I saw an assortment of clear plastic screw-lid containers at the grocery store ranging from quart to 2 gallon size. Near the rubbermaid isle. These would meet the requirements.

 

Mickey

Max Entropy

More than just a name, a lifestyle.

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The meeting is this week on Thursday! We need as many people as we can get to be there. Plus there is an added bonus, you get to log it as an event cache: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=49331

 

Good luck everybody, lets make caching in Arkansas State Parks a good experience for everybody.

 

The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO

------------------------------------

Long Live Long Rides

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I'd just like to throw this out, so that those of us who attend the meeting all sound like we are in agreement. (And just to find out if we are...)

 

For me, the top issue is the 4-month limit on a cache. To me it isn't worth placing one for a 4-month lifetime. If they'd conceed on this, I could live with the rest. I'd prefer no limit, but maybe I could live with having to renew the permit each year...

 

Next on my list would be the unbreakable transparent container that is animal proof with a latch. All I can think of is a plastic jar with a screw on lid. (Is a screw on lid considered a latch?) Watertightness is also often a problem with plastic containers.

 

My final concern would be the permit process itself, and how many hoops you'd have to go through to place a decent cache, or if they'd insist it was put somewhere where it wasn't even really hidden. (I can just hear the ranger now: "No, you have to leave it on the paved part of the trail!!! You can't put it off in the woods!!")

 

Any other concerns that I've overlooked?

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My opinion is this: He tried, but they made it unreasonably difficult. There are tens of thousands of geocaches out there without all those guidelines and with very few exceptions; there haven't been any problems. As far as I know, there have not been any serious problems at all. So hide without permission if it's to your liking to do so. That's what offset coordinates are for. Tell them to put that in their pipe and smoke it!

 

Disclaimer: I am not endorsing any action or promoting geo-anarchy. I'm merely expressing an opinion as a free American.

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quote:
Perhaps the clear container requirement is more of a convenience issue than a safety issue. They just don't want to have to open it to see what's inside.

 

Now if someone wrapped a bomb in a piece of paper towel, newspaper, or paper bag, how is the clear container going to protect people? Are finders going to think 'Oh, there is something wrapped in paper in the cache, it must be a bomb, so I'd better not open it'?

 

From a convience standpoint, say a cop, or ranger checks on the container and sees something in a small box inside. Do they assume it's harmless, open it because its suspicious, or call the bomb squad?

 

I know, the whole idea is ridiculious.

 

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

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I am a lifelong resident of Arkansas who resides in xxxxx. I am an avid camper. My family and I visit Arkansas State Parks several times a year.

Recently, my family and I have become interested in Geocaching. Many of the caches we have sought have been in parks, recreation areas, historic sites and museums that we would have never visited had the cache not been placed there. Once we have found the cache, we have explored the area, and decided that we would come back yet another day. This is good for tourism and good for the economy as most geocachers do the same as my family.

I have read the proposed rules dealing with geocaching in Arkansas State Parks. While I am all for protecting our beautiful parks, I hope that by developing these rules, Arkansas does not take a step backwards in promoting tourism in the Natural State. We all know how hard we have worked to get people to come here as a vacation destination!

Geocaching does not generate hundreds of visits to a cache. In urban areas caches are usually visited three or four times the first week they are placed then get a visit about once every two weeks thereafter. Some caches are left for a year or more and as interest wanes, the cache is removed. Other caches still have occasional visits even after two years. Caches placed here in xxxxxx have logged fewer than 12 visits in the last year and I have not noticed any damage to the trails or parks as a result of geocaching.

I feel that most of the proposed rules are easy enough to abide by and I applaud you for your stewardship. The biggest problem I see is the requirement to get a permit that only lasts four months. It is my hope that this permit could be issued for at least six month if not a year. Extending this time would allow for the cache to serve its useful life and would serve to bring more people into our parks for recreational purposes. Extending the time would show our willingness to reach out to geocaching as a recognized and wanted sport in Arkansas State Parks.

I appreciate your allowing me this forum to address my concerns about the geocaching rules. If I may be of assistance to you please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,

name and address withheld from websitefor security reasons.

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Read a really good article in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette today about caching. It was nearly a full page with color pictures, one in particular of a kid about 10 or so holding some cache schwag he'd gotten. The folks "Cadron Kids" they used in the photos and articles are some of the more active cachers around here. Unfortunatly, the demgazette requires a subscription to view their publication or I'd paste a link. All in all, pretty good PR for us and geocaching.com

 

When GPSr's are outlawed, only Outlaws will have GPSr's.

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Hello, my name is Doug Carter and I am a Park Manger with Florida State Parks. I am also a Geocacher and I write this to you in support of Geocaching as a wonderful and enjoyable hobby. I allow and encourage visitors to place Geocaches in the parks that I manage. I have Geocaches on my parks that have been there for nearly a year and there has been no problems or resource degradation because of the Geocaches. I do support the development of rules to govern the placement of geocaches but my experience is that the rules do not need to be so restrictive as to make the hobby un-enjoyable or a burden to adhere to. I do agree that permission must be obtained to hide the Geocache and exact location must be approved to preclude hiding in sensitive areas. The cachers will for the most part maintain the cache as they find them. I find that the areas that I have Geocaches hid in, are always clean as Geocachers are great about practicing "Cache in and Trash out". This is a rare opportunity for your parks to take advantage of a great partnership with the Geocaching community. I am sure you will be able to find volunteers from this group as well as increase the visitation to your sites. In closing I encourage you to make this a positive connection with what is for the most part a conscientious group wishing to enjoy and protect our public lands. As a public lands manager, my experience with the Geocaching Community has been nothing but positive. Please feel free to call me at 386-446-6780 or email me at any time should you wish to discuss the benefits of Geocaching on public lands.

 

Thanks for your time,

Douglas R. Carter

 

________________________________________________________________________

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes.

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sandy.burch@mail.state.ar.us is the email address for comments.

 

Tomorrow (Jan 15) is the last day for commments.

 

Here's what I sent:

 

Dear Honorable State Parks Commissioners,

 

Best wishes that this letter finds you all in good health!

 

I am currently a resident of Las Vegas, Nevada, but I was raised in Harrison, Arkansas. Eventually, I will return home to the Ozarks. Since I am an active Geocacher, I wish to express my opinions and provide input before you make the final decision on the official Arkansas State Parks Geocaching Policy.

 

First, I hope that all of you have had the opportunity to go out and seek a Geocache. If you not, I'm afraid that it may be difficult to understand "what the big deal is". Caching is a lot of fun, but it should not be viewed any differently than hiking...because that's what it is: hiking, but with a specific goal. It will take you places you otherwise would not visit. The cache logs on Geocaching.com are positively filled with comments like "I've been by here a hundred times, but never stopped." or "What a great discovery! I never would've stopped otherwise."

 

That's exactly the way I feel about the removed Magazine Mountain cache. I can't tell you the number of times I was near Magazine Mountain when growing up, but I've never actually been to it. Now, as an adult driving the car, I guarantee that I would put that cache on my "To Do List". Thousands of local and visiting geocachers feel the same way.

 

In general, Geocachers are conscientious, outdoors-oriented people...the exact target demographic for State Parks. I agree with Mr. Butts' email comments to another cacher about not letting everyone do everything they want because eventually there'd be nothing left. Park Directive 3220 is a great opportunity to work with the caching community and increase park usage, as well.

 

There should be little to no "official" difference recognized between "hikers" and "geocachers".

 

Guardians of public resources, beit a library or public park, have searched for ways to increase usage (and therefore, funding) for as long as I can remember. A reasonable geocaching policy will do just that.

 

In general the preliminary regulations sound very reasonable. However, there are a couple items which should be modified to make it worth the time and effort to place and maintain a cache.

 

First, I do not feel that four months' time is long enough life for a geocache. Most of the caches I currently visit are older than four months. So, they would not exist under this proposal. One of the busiest caches in Nevada has been there over a year. You could spend over an hour just reading the fascinating logs left by a year's worth of visitors.

 

I understand the need to not negatively impact the environment, so please consider this alternative:

 

Geocaching Permit: Free, one year, renewable with a four month "environmental impact evaluation" period. At the end of the evaluation period, Park personnel could inspect the area, contact the owner if it needs to be moved or changed, or if it's causing too much trouble, or approve the extension.

 

It doesn't make sense to be forced to remove something that isn't causing any trouble, but *is* drawing visitors to the park. This extra time would also reduce the paperwork burden for park personnel.

 

Second, I understand the idea behind a clear cache container, but no clear container is "animal proof" especially if it's exposed to UV light for months on end. An ammo box clearly marked as a cache is a much, much better cache container. It's waterproof and virtually indestructable There's a reason why animal proof trashcans are made of metal.

 

Please do not let the terrorists win by automatically condemning ammo boxes as "threatening". Require that it be painted bright yellow or have the Official Geocaching label, but don't give in to irrational fears

 

Lastly, I do not see anything wrong with hiding a cache with rocks if they are already available at the location. Obviously, there's a big difference between using what's available on site with carrying rocks from another location, but I feel this should be a discretionary item left up to the cache placer and park personnel.

 

Today presents a unique opportunity to set an example for the rest of the country. A reasonable Geocaching Policy can benefit both public and government interests.

 

Thank you for your time,

 

Jason Creager

(address deleted)

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Dear Sir or Madam:

I've read the proposed rules regarding geocaching in Arkansas State Parks. It appears that the rules were developed by people who have little familiarity with the sport. They are incredibly restrictive and will only serve to discourage geocaching in Arkansas State Parks.

 

Geocaching is a quickly growing sport. Its participants include everyone from long time outdoors enthusiasts, to former "couch potatoes". Its a family oriented sport which often introduces people to areas they never would have found otherwise. Its impact on the environment is in line with many other outdoor pursuits, including hiking, hunting, bird watching and wildlife photography.

 

I'm particularly concerned with several regulations that seem to be poorly thought out.

 

The first is the 4 month limit for permits. I'm sure the purpose of this is to reduce the impact on the area surrounding the geocache, but it will have the opposite effect. A four month limit will concentrate visits, as local geocachers rush to find the cache before it is removed. In reality geocaches, especially those in remote areas, are rarely visited. As such, the impact is limited.

 

The next is the requirement for clear cache containers. I'm not sure what this is supposed to accomplish, but in the post 9/11 world, my guess the concern is "booby trapped" caches. This is a non-issue. There have been over 50,000 geocaches placed with an average of 14.2 visits per geocache. This means that despite nearly 3/4 of a million cache visits, there is not one documented instance of a booby trapped geocache. Clear caches will only provide a false sense of security. If someone is intent on injuring park visitors, they will do so, geocache or not. Clear container, or not.

 

Another argument against clear containers is the fact that the most commonly available compliant containers are retired food containers. These tend to attract animals and increase the possibility that the cache will gnawed by, opened by, scattered by, or destroyed by animals. Many agencies have taken a different view and require animal-proof containers, such as retired ammo boxes.

 

I'm all for reasonable, well thought out rules for geocaching in Arkansas State Parks, however the current proposed regulations are neither.I urge you to work with the local geocaching community to

create sensible rules and scrap the current proposals.

 

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

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It's great they we we are all letting them know what we think. I have another suggestion though...

 

Wednesday is the last day that public comments will be taken. I'd like to suggest that as many people as possable (of those who will NOT be attending the meeting) call 501/682-7743 and make verbal comments. Just something simple like "Hi, my name is xxx xxxx, I'd like to comment about the new Geocaching policy since I can't be there... (quickly summerize your opinions) ... I hope you make the right decision and listen to the public comments and the geocachers who will be there."

 

If we people from out of state, or can not make it to the meeting, can make one more push, I think it would greatly help the Geocachers who are actually going to be at the meeting. icon_cool.gif

 

The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO

------------------------------------

Long Live Long Rides

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We're planning a fall 2003 vacation to AR and MO. A big part of our planning is highpointing so Magazine Mt. will be one of our destinations. Hope there's a cache or two around to hunt also.

 

I don't know the situation in Arkansas as far as wanting to increase or decrease visitation to their parks. If they're trying to get more people to visit, they really shouldn't discount geocaching as a draw, even to out-of-staters. Magazine Mountain is a definite for us, but we would be willing to pay to enter other state parks for a chance to hunt for a cache.

 

We visited FL, GA, and TN this past year. Part of our selection of places to see was based on the availability of caches to hunt and/or highpoints. As geocaching becomes more popular, so too will increase the number of people willing to go out of their way (and more importantly to the powers-that-be, willing to pay entrance fees) for the opportunity to hunt a cache. Our county park system has figured this out and has embraced geocaching 100%

 

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

 

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.

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I called today, hope some of you did also. I think it would be good if someone had a cache container that they could bring with them that has been chewed through by an animal. That might turn them away from some of the container restrictions. Good luck everybody, hope it goes well tomarrow. Let us know how it goes!

 

The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO

------------------------------------

Long Live Long Rides

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We really appreciate all the positive work people like Solohiker are doing. We visited AR last spring and had a great time in the Ouchita area. Planning to return this year and will definatly be doing some geocaching. Hope some of it will be in state parks.

 

I sent a brief note by email, but I may be too late for it to get included.

 

Thanks

 

'A good traveler has no specific destination, and isn't intent on arriving.'-take pleasure in the journey

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The hearing is over, and I consider it a victory.

 

They have agreed to a 1-year permit, with an automatic 1-year renewal at the descretion of the local park personnel.

 

They were (eventually) convinced of the folly of the transparent container requirement, and struck the word "transparent" from the description, and verbally endorsed the idea of the ammo box.

 

The container must be approved at the time of getting the permit.

 

They way the permit process is supposed to work, is you take your cache to the park office, and tell them where you want to put it, they will then inspect it and put on an "official Arkansas State Park Approved Geocache" sticker with your name and date on it. (Basically the sticker is the permit form and permit itself.) The sticker must be stuck on the cache and then you can hide it. There is will be no charge.

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quote:
Originally posted by solohiker:

Don't you check your caches three times a year anyway?


 

Not to argue a moot point, but the way the original proposal was written, the cache had to be removed at the end of the 4 months. I don't permanently archive my caches every 3 or 4 months.

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I've been following this thread to see how you did with y our parks system and it seems like you have worked out a very reasonable and workable system. You are to be commended along with your parks system for everyone being so reasonable.

 

I am hoping to forward a set of your rules to the people at the Texas Parks and Wildlife personnel that are discussing the rules for our parks as we speak. Do you know if yours are going to posted somewhere I could get them?

 

I appreciate your assistance.

 

icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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Great job down there in Arkansas. A pat on the back from here in Michigan.

If the regulations are available for others to view, please either post them or provide a link.

Thanks a lot.

I was down in Arkansas doing some Thanksgiving visiting and geocaching recently. I hope ro visit again and do some caches which will now be placed as a result of this new found cache hiding location bonanza.

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Thanks for all the good PR work.

 

On the Texas Parks rules...I don't know what is in place...but one of my first encounters with geocaching was a cache location memo on the message board at McKinney Roughs park outside of Austin. Not sure if it is state or not. I'll just shut up and go find something hiding in the woods.

 

'A good traveler has no specific destination, and isn't intent on arriving.'-take pleasure in the journey

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First off, let me add my congratulations to the list! Those of us who are working for similar results in Pennsylvania can now point to yet another state that has adopted a workable policy.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Breaktrack:

I am hoping to forward a set of your rules to the people at the Texas Parks and Wildlife personnel that are discussing the rules for our parks as we speak. Do you know if yours are going to posted somewhere I could get them?


Good point, Breaktrack, and an opportunity for me to renew my request to have a Forum Section for Park Caching Policies.

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return?

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After reading the messages here, and from the discussion in the hall after the State Parks meeting, it is clear to me we need an Arkansas Geocachers Association. icon_smile.gif

 

To promote this effort, I've created a Yahoo Group called ArkGeo for discussion of geocaching in Arkansas. icon_biggrin.gif

 

You can join the e-mail group by visiting this web site:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkGeo/

 

or by sending an e-mail to:

ArkGeo-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

Longdogs

 

[This message was edited by LongDogs on January 16, 2003 at 08:03 PM.]

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Let me add another congratulations from afar. You guys did a great job keeping your cool and presenting geocaching as the great sport/game that it is (if we could just decide what it was). I was down in your beautiful state last year and got to do a few of your caches, and have a couple trips down that way planned for this year also and hope to bag a few more. Since I have cached in your neck of the woods I also sent a letter to the director to support you all. I wonder how many letters they got? There was some great stuff posted to the forum here. Any idea of a head count as to how many bodies you had at the meeting?

 

I've been trying to work with NYS parks to get some sort of policy going but they've chosen to ignore me. I sure do hope when the day comes that they open their eyes they will be as accommodating as the folks down there have been. Cache on in a big way folks...you've earned it...and your legal now too ;-)

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So when will the new rules get tested? icon_biggrin.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by LongDogs:

The hearing is over, and I consider it a victory.

 

They have agreed to a 1-year permit, with an automatic 1-year renewal at the descretion of the local park personnel.

 

They were (eventually) convinced of the folly of the transparent container requirement, and struck the word "transparent" from the description, and verbally endorsed the idea of the ammo box.

 

The container must be approved at the time of getting the permit.

They way the permit process is supposed to work, is you take your cache to the park office, and tell them where you want to put it, they will then inspect it and put on an "official Arkansas State Park Approved Geocache" sticker with your name and date on it. (Basically the sticker is the permit form and permit itself.) The sticker must be stuck on the cache and then you can hide it. There is will be no charge.


 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Ttepee:

Any idea of a head count as to how many bodies you had at the meeting?


 

Count the "find" logs on my event cache, there have been people logginf it constantly since the meeting ended. If you were there, don't forget to claim your find! Go to http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=49331

 

The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO

------------------------------------

Long Live Long Rides

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